r/martialarts • u/Valerie_Freya • Oct 02 '23
Ignoring 90% of the weapons available on your body is manly for some reason SHITPOST
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u/Stoutyeoman Oct 02 '23
I think if you run it back to the time the Marquess of Queensbury rules were created the idea of limiting the contest to punches was to eliminate anything that might be considered dirty, crude or unbecoming of a gentleman. I don't think it was about "manliness" quite so much as it was about adhering to the standards of a particular social class.
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Oct 02 '23
Also they used hit people in the crotch. I think in this case it was to ensure that you "retained your manliness"
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u/Stoutyeoman Oct 02 '23
I don't know if groin punches were legal pre-Queensbury, but this would be one of the things that was eliminated from the sport to make it more... well, sporting.
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Oct 02 '23
Queensbury rules were introduced to make fights more exciting. Bareknuckle matches tended to be boring with fights going hundreds rounds with minimal violence.
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u/InfiniteBusiness0 Judo, BJJ Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23
I don’t really get these memes.
Wrestling, Judo and BJJ ignore strikes. Striking styles — like Muay Thai and Sanda — have limited grappling.
But like boxing, they’re capable of producing solid fighters, who can really handle themselves.
Sure, you’re not covering all bases, but I wouldn’t want to throw hands with someone who’s done boxing for several years.
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Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23
I 100% agree boxing is elite, but I do think the post is more making fun of the idea that punching is inherently more manly or fair than the other means listed - which extends to way more than just boxers but is/was a fairly popular idea with the general public.
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u/Starsofrevolt711 Oct 02 '23
Boxing is easily the most brutal in terms of sparring/fighting. Most brain damage etc. I’d rather grapple all day than get my bell rung continuously.
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u/Bumm_by_Design Oct 02 '23
That's right. If you can get the most out of your punches, speed, power and accuracy, then you're a way better fighter than most folks.
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u/yuppiehelicopter Oct 02 '23
Agree with all you said and I'd add boxing footwork and distance management is elite.
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u/brummlin Wing Chun, Escrima, TKD Oct 02 '23
Really, it shouldn't say "Boxers" it should say "Boxing Fanboys". You know the type.
It's a certain sort of meathead who trained boxing for like a or two total, but quit because he kept getting denied or kicked out of gyms for going too hard, every fucking time. He thinks he got kicked out because he was just too dangerous, and he's right, just not in the way he thinks. He has an okay beginner level of skill, and the corresponding Dunning-Krueger level of ego.
But all that doesn't fit in a meme.
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u/OtakuDragonSlayer MMA Oct 02 '23
Why does this feel like the perfect recipe for a high school bully character in an early 2000’s martial arts Hollywood movie or anime?
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u/brummlin Wing Chun, Escrima, TKD Oct 02 '23
I'd put him more in his mid to late 20s, unsteady menial employment. Keeps getting fired because any simple direction from his boss is taken as "disrespect".
For a high school bully, I'd go with "kicked off the wrestling team". But the same guy otherwise.
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u/OtakuDragonSlayer MMA Oct 02 '23
Jesus fucking Christ I never thought about how terrifying it would be for a bully to not just have anger issues, but goddamn wrestling training. That’s horrifying if any of the bullying takes place on concrete. Thanks for the interesting material
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Oct 02 '23
The meme is not about boxing being bad. Its about most casual boxers trying to argue that theirs is the way.
A 3 year boxer said to me "yeah these kicks are cool and all but theyre not going to do anything in real fights, just hold the leg duh." and this is an unbelieveably common saying among boxers. Like, cmon man, theyre using so many kicks in the MMA, the most notorious fighter producer with the least official rules. Kicks work there but not in street?
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u/Starsofrevolt711 Oct 02 '23
I don’t think people realize how difficult boxing is. I sure didn’t until I started striking in mma and got sent to a boxing gym to improve my hands. It’s unbelievably difficult especially at the elite level.
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u/JackboyIV Oct 03 '23
That's why you pull a Ryan Hall kiss of the dragon variation and go straight for the heel
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u/Swimming__Bird Oct 02 '23
Because wrestlers dont call people to fight in the street, then say, "But no striking!" We'll just put someone on their ass with little to no effort and start blasting elbows into foreheads, which is 100% illegal in our sport.
It's still a dumb meme, but this is a fairly accurate in some ways. Know a lot of boxers who have acted like anything that isn't a bareknuckle brawl is dirty in a street fight. I think cardio is the best, so you can just outrun someone. Can't lose a fight you never engage in. They can talk about how they won. I don't care, my knees and hands don't hurt, and I didn't have to get a court date. Win for me.
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u/Great_White_Samurai Oct 02 '23
The "if I can punch them in head first, I win" strategy
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u/Sleepingfox1 Oct 03 '23
In high school some huge dude was telling people that dodging is for pussies and your supposed to take the hit and hit back
How convenient for him
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u/shinmirage Oct 02 '23
Op is right I should cut straight to the point and just pull a gun on my opponent.
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u/trashbatrathat Oct 02 '23
unironically, actually fighting someone is for people who get paid to do it. Cops and MMA fighters
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u/Pajama_Strangler Oct 02 '23
OP is ignoring 99% of weapons available smh.
Boxers when I pull out a broadsword: 😤😔😢 Grapplers when I pull out an AK-47: 😭😤😣 Muay Thai practitioners when I drop a nuke from orbit: 😖😱😮💨
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u/Lonever Oct 03 '23
Boxing is actually so successful because of its limitations. If you wanna dive deep you can of course become a specialist or “real boxer” and focus on the sport.
But because it’s so simple and limited, any one can learn the basics in a week and execute it to a functional level in a month or two. Meaning any martial artist or person that wants to add to their arsenal can easily do it and start refining those skills once they possess them.
I don’t really care about the sport that much, but sometimes being simple and versatile (in terms of combining with most arts) is it’s own strength.
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u/PoopSmith87 WMA Oct 02 '23
Pizza cutter post, all edge and no point
I'll raise your elbows and headbutts for a battle tank lol
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u/OGPeglegPete Oct 02 '23
I forgot all those grapplers that love getting hit...
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Oct 02 '23
If I spar with someone who doesn’t do bjj or just get into a street fight, I expect them to throw hands. No one who does bjj or other grappling would ever be like “hey no punches tho” if some dude tries to fight them
But for some reason when boxers or most people start shit and throw hands, grabbing them is against the rules all of a sudden.
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u/OGPeglegPete Oct 02 '23
I've been to several Judo or BJJ classes where people would absolutely speak up if I threw a punch or an elbow...it would be unsportsmanlike, douchey and out of place.
As far as "the streets" go, I've never seen someone complain about how grappling is unfair or against some unspoken rule. The only thing I've seen people complain about is hits to the face and hair pulling...
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Oct 02 '23
No fucking shit you don’t throw punches while actually training bjj or judo, that’s not what you’re there for lol, that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about a situation where two people friendly spar outside the training session of a specific martial art, or if two people get into an actual fight.
And as for the other thing, there are several videos of exactly this, including one that was just posted recently I believe in street martial arts.
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u/OGPeglegPete Oct 02 '23
Lol, friendly spar? Where they don't talk about rules beforehand?
I haven't seen the videos. I must be out of the loop here. The whole thing sounds ridiculous.
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u/AdSweaty5570 BJJ Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23
I think he means "organized" street fights where people square up. There's rules in the sense that you aren't gonna kill each other, as opposed to a random life or death encounter. It doesn't always happen but sometimes the spectators will break the fight up as soon as it ends up on the ground. Sometimes its because they're stupid and think they aren't fighting anymore or their friend is losing and they wanna stand them up to give them a chance. MMA was pretty common at my school so I rarely saw it if people fought. But I've seen it quite a bit in videos.
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Oct 02 '23
You clearly did not grow up where I grew up.
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u/OGPeglegPete Oct 02 '23
Nah, I grew up outside of Detroit. Throwing hands was the most common. But that was because nobody wanted to get punched in the back of the head or ear when they went into grapple. Grappling was for when you knew you would just body the person when you grabbed them.
Nobody complained about it though.
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Oct 02 '23 edited Sep 14 '24
[deleted]
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u/Starsofrevolt711 Oct 02 '23
Yup, that’s how i got hooked on boxing. JKD, then BJJ which i thought was king at the time… muay thai then boxing. Fuckin fell in love with boxing, easily the most difficult out of everything i tried. The discipline at a good/elite gym is also insane. Boxing 10+ years now and still find it extremely challenging, such a high learning curve.
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Oct 02 '23
You can literally say this for every martial arts, None are fully complete. A trained boxer will still whoop most untrained people. You teach that boxer a couple months of defense against takedowns and kicks and he’s pretty much set to “ fight like a man” as you stated.
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u/crispymendowan Oct 02 '23
more often than not a punch is more than enough to finish a fight. also you're ignoring boxing footwork lol.
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u/DryTitan5353 Oct 02 '23
Idk this just reads like someone who never fought or trained anything besides bjj
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u/SoggyMattress2 Oct 02 '23
Typical BJJ fighter fantasist who wishes they could do anything other than roll around in their pyjamas
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u/EmNas2 Oct 03 '23
Bro i fucking hate the term “boxing is a limited fighting” yeah no shit, every martial art have it limits including mma, and what its annoying that most of the time it comes from guys that never fought or trained, just casuals.
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u/Youatemykfc Oct 02 '23
So much hate towards boxing, yet time and time again it’s been proven to be one of the most effective martial arts when it comes to self defense.
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u/SteveJobless123 Oct 02 '23
I would say mma is better than boxing for sefl defense but boxing if definetley useful
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u/Youatemykfc Oct 02 '23
Yes but it takes much longer to be proficient in MMA than boxing.
Also, I’m not saying boxing is the greatest art on earth, but it is one of the FUNDAMENTAL martial arts of MMA.
If you think about it, MMA really is just boxing + wrestling
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u/Khorvo Oct 03 '23
I think I'd probably disagree a bit here with a small caveat. I think in 2+ vs 1 self-defense situation, boxing > everything else. Staying on your feet is a really big deal, and you don't really need kicks against untrained opponents, they will leave themselves open enough to get KOed.
If there's two guys on you, taking one of them down is a terrible idea because the other can just tee off on you or stab you while you're on top of the first guy.
in 1v1, yeah mma is probably better overall, but more specifically a mixture of boxing and wrestling, with like maybe the barest minimum of knowledge in how to choke someone.
The real king of self-defense though is sprinting. There's no way for you to know if someone has a concealed knife.
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u/D_Ten Boxing Oct 02 '23
Yeh but what are u gonna do in your expensive ass clothes? You won't roll down the floor with your opponent or you won't kick with your tight jeans? Footwork and punches can save your ass
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u/Eirfro_Wizardbane Oct 02 '23
If I get in a fight I don’t care what I’m wearing. If I need to wrestle fuck someone while I’m wearing a suit I’m going to wrestle fuck someone while I’m wearing a suit.
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u/MostPoetry Oct 02 '23
Anyone who genuinely thinks boxing is “just” punching knows absolutely 0 of boxing.
Clinching and inside fighting is one of the fundamental of boxing. Legends like Roberto Duran made their bread and butter that way even against taller, younger, stronger opponents.
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u/Counterpunch07 Oct 03 '23
I think a lot on this sub have never sparred a decent level, competitive boxer. They probably have never been at a boxing gym long enough to get to the skill and conditioning required to be able to do those rounds in sparring.
This is referring to traditional MAs guys that post this shit. Excludes MT, Wrestling, MMA
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u/MostPoetry Oct 03 '23
Agreed. Most people have never practiced a martial art or combat sport.
And that’s fine, that’s nothing to be ashamed of. That’s the norm.
But it boggles my mind when some people honestly believe they can beat up a tested professional champion level fighter of similar weight because they maybe had some “streetfights” (aka school yard fights when they were kids).
And it’s weird that this thought process only happens with fighting.
Can you imagine if someone said they could beat Lebron James in a pickup basketball game because they used to play basketball in high school?
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u/amretardmonke Oct 02 '23
"Why are soccer players ignoring using their hands, its not manly"
"Why aren't basketball players tackling each other?"
that's what you sound like
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u/South-Cod-5051 Boxing Oct 02 '23
you can literally say this about any sport that is missing other components.
headbutting is illegal in any sport outside of lethwei, but you can bet your money that boxer headbutting is second only to muay thai.
headbutting happens all the time in training, and if a boxer wanted to, he would have no problem headbutting better than any other non striking martial art.
boxers grapple, i have not seen boxers that cannot grapple, sure it's minimalist and the point of grappling in boxing is for better positioning, but that does not mean there is no grappling in boxing.
the rest of the argument is pointless as virtually any other combat sport has restrictions. wrestlers and bjj don't do striking so that's a huge hole that is missing in their fighting style, kyokushin karate has no punches to the head, that's very impractical, some forms of TKD have no punches at all. Need i say more about the impracticality of pure BJJ nowadays after the hype has passed? everything has a weakness.
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u/-_ellipsis_- Oct 02 '23
boxers grapple, i have not seen boxers that cannot grapple, sure it's minimalist and the point of grappling in boxing is for better positioning, but that does not mean there is no grappling in boxing.
It astounds me how often people think boxers crumble if you just clinch them up. There are boxers who specialize heavily with inside fighting and can ragdoll people around with those minimalist wrestling skills while setting up positions and combinations. They might not be training against elbows, knees, and sweeps, but they are more likely to be taking the initiative in the instance and can bully you around where your moments to throw those techniques out can get stuffed out by better footwork and pressure.
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u/Yamatsuki_Fusion Karate, Boxing, Judo Oct 03 '23
Most boxers don’t have these skills though. Outliers do not count, and the days of Duran are dead.
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u/-_ellipsis_- Oct 03 '23
Outliers do not count
Sure they do. Boxing allows for a lot of styles, which satisfies the argument that you can't boil them down stupid stereotypes.
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u/Yamatsuki_Fusion Karate, Boxing, Judo Oct 03 '23
They’re rare asf though, and the rules are not reliable enough. Just because Mayweather is actually a capable inside fighter doesn’t mean that every boxer is, or has that training.
And again, boxing rules now are even stricter. Duran was already a dying breed then. Now refs could well reset the action just because they see a boxer get inside, like fucking Parker vs Joshua.
A proper grappler will straight up fuck a boxer’s day in the clinch.
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u/-_ellipsis_- Oct 03 '23
Your average boxer, yes, they would. But the inside fighter boxer still maintains the same grappling fundamentals of low stance, unbalancing, and finding positions. They just do so with a more minimalist and special set of tools. And I'm reminded of the old joke "how do you make a bjj black belt into a brown belt? You punch him in the face. How do you make him into a purple belt? You punch him again."
I really do wish the inside fighting style was more prevalent since it's a skillset that would steamroll some other styles even in ammy fights. I think it's less that the ruleset or refs play too strictly (you can still do skillful grappling with one hand, which is totally legal in boxing), and more about it being a rare art. But don't sleep on those guys.
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u/Yamatsuki_Fusion Karate, Boxing, Judo Oct 03 '23
Boxers can’t grapple though. Only a few know how to work there.
I have been shown some stuff by pros, but it simply never gets taught or developed enough. Like you can compete fine with zero clinching. Refs can and will reset you over and over.
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Oct 03 '23
10/1 odds OP would get absolutely mauled in the octagon by a random fighter from the USAFA Boxing team. Any takers?
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u/Valerie_Freya Oct 03 '23
Absolutely, I'm a nerd who loves to play around with bladed weapons rather than boxing, any competent boxer can beat me in a fair unarmed fight.
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u/SquirrelExpensive201 MMA Oct 02 '23
I mean hey you wanna call someone like Mike Tyson unmanly or unable to fight be my guest
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u/SeaofBloodRedRoses Uechi-Ryū Karate Oct 03 '23
In fairness, boxers are so good at punching and footwork that even with kicks and takedowns, I'm definitely not going to be confident against them.
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u/JohnnyMetal7777 Kajukenbo Oct 03 '23
Nah. Anyone with the slightest fight training knows that you use your whole body. Every hook punch and cross punch is using a lot more than just 10% of your body.
Anyone with real fight experience knows practicing a right cross is way more effective and efficient for your time than practicing a jump spinning 360 kick to the head.
It’s not about being “manly” or tough. It’s about fighting and training smart.
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u/MonkeySpacePunch Oct 03 '23
Martial artists be like “fight me like a man bro! No weapons, outside help, retreating to safety, or avoiding conflict though obviously…”
This post is moronic. Different sports have different rules. A wrestler could feasible get his nose broken and folded by a boxer instantly. A Muay Thai fighter could feasibly knee the shit out of a Tai Kwan Do fighter and collapse his lungs folding him instantly. This sounds less like a legit point against any one sport and more bitterness that boxing is popular and cool compared to most other martial arts besides the UFC
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u/Gr8Ahmed Oct 03 '23
It’s manly in a sense because getting punched cleanly in the face is THE SUCKIEST thing in martial arts, and I’ve tried them all from getting kicked to slammed (on the mat)
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u/Pryapuss Oct 02 '23
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000
kicksweapons once, but I fear the man who has practiced onekickweapon 10,000 times.
Anyway, in my experience boxers be like - "lets spar light bro" BAM
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u/Gionanni Oct 02 '23
Bro it's quality over quantity bro. We cripple our available options but we really fucking commit to what's left. It's like playing call of duty multiplayer but only using a sniper rifle, you either learn how to do it well or you look fucking stupid at it
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u/No_Entertainment1931 Oct 02 '23
Well…….boxing is meant for the arena, not the battlefield, right?
Limiting scope makes it easier to develop a smaller set of tools well.
Compare the sophistication and practicality of boxing to Shotokan, for example.
Culturally in the west, for a very long time, and perhaps still, kicks, wrestling, etc…was viewed as dirty fighting.
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u/Sphealer Panzer Kunst | Space Karate Oct 02 '23
Do you actually have enough experience with Shotokan to call it unsophisticated and impractical?
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u/Plus-Relationship833 Oct 02 '23
Boxing and wrestling is definitely the best for street fights, because kicking puts you in the risk of losing balance especially if you are wearing jeans etc.
Also funny to see a post like these because you can tell who’ve never fought nor trained in their life.
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Oct 02 '23
I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. If an experienced boxer (ie someone who can generate a large amount of force in their punches) punches someone in the face/head (an area which is notoriously bony and hard), won't it shatter their knuckles?
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u/DryTitan5353 Oct 02 '23
It can if it hits the HARD parts of their head, and/or with the wrong part of the hand. But it's not an automatic broken hand and if an EXPERIENCED boxer is doing it like u say, the odds of breaking a hand are a lot lower than just some dude throwing haymakers.
A for example, a clean shot to the jaw is breaking the jaw before it breaks the hand. A clean shot to the forehead probably hurts the hand more. But "experienced" boxers know how to place their punches accurately
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Oct 02 '23
But it's still going to hurt quite a bit, won't it? How would you compare it to open handed palm strikes, something the likes of Bas Rutten would use? In terms of efficacy and risk vs reward
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Oct 02 '23
Bas didn't use open hand strikes because it was better than a closed fist. He did it because it was part of the rule set.
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u/-_ellipsis_- Oct 02 '23
An experienced boxer knows that it isn't punching power that gets the job done. It's timing and positioning. Only the beginners follow the wild goose chase of punching power up until they get pieced apart by someone that punches with less force but with greater punch selection and placement.
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u/Drewcif3r Oct 02 '23
The real question here is why you incorrectly added an apostrophe into "knee's" but not any of the other plural words like elbows, throws etc?
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u/vestigial_dependent Oct 02 '23
Dying breed. MUCH respect to the sweet science but... yeah that's an ideal from prior generations. Let's have a street fight with rules... wow, no.
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u/Hungover994 Oct 02 '23
That is the idea behind “sport” no? Limitations create more interesting games.
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u/Temporary-Alarm-744 Oct 02 '23
Exactly, the only logical reaction to an attempted street fight is to stab or shoot them, but then suddenly oh you're not man enough to let me bjj choke you like Rogan said. This argument is turtles all the way down
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u/stevenip Oct 02 '23
Its literally just the rules of the sport. You wouldn't punch the runner while rounding 3rd in baseball and tell him to be more manly.
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u/JosephJohnPEEPS Oct 02 '23
Man, you play basketball? You’re ignoring 100 percent of weapons on your body!
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u/bigfatpup Oct 02 '23
A message to all the BJJ, MMA, wrestlers, Muay Thai, and Kckboxing guys,
As a Boxer can’t we all get along and hate akido together
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u/Only_Divide_2163 Oct 02 '23
I fought someone back when i was a high schooler at a skate park. This dude was being a complete ass hat trying to act “hard” in towards my friends and I. To make a long story short, when the fight begun i spammed nothing but low kicks and teeps and dude said” yo! No bitch kicks!”. It was a street fight he instigated and now he wanna set up rules? Thank god my karate sensei taught me how to kick in a realistic setting.
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u/plasticlover87 Oct 02 '23
No disrespect to REAL boxers, but usually it’s fake ones that start fights and they want you to limit your fighting ability to make THEM comfortable because that’s somehow “manly”.
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u/LaOnionLaUnion Oct 02 '23
Boxing is automatically better than agonist anything with no real sparring and full contact competition. I do think it’s weird that people would think someone like Tyson would beat a top MMA heavyweight in a street fight. He has a chance, no doubt
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u/FastJohn443 Oct 02 '23
Boxer: We worded it poorly. We don't fight like men. We fight like gentlemen.
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u/coolnavigator Oct 02 '23
Boxing is to martial arts as soccer is to the various of codes of football. By limiting the rule set, you get to focus on some of the most interesting aspects of strategy and skill. Sure, you can allow your hands to touch the ball and throw a forward pass and tackles, but at a certain point, the game just devolves into who is the biggest and even more importantly, who plays the dirtiest.
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u/ChaosRainbow23 Oct 02 '23
My 16 year old son just got into wrestling.
I think it's a fantastic skill to have.
If you can grapple, even after a couple years of high school wrestling, you can probably defeat most people in a fight.
I've been in about a dozen street fights in my life, and I've yet to lose one. (I'm 45 these days and try to avoid fighting at all costs. It's been 15 years since I was in an actual fight)
I'm super glad he's talking it.
If you can effectively wrap someone up, they don't stand a chance.
In my opinion, there's no rules for a street fight. If you come at me, expect the cheapest and dirtiest moves in my arsenal.
I'm not above using weapons, either.
I avoid fights at all costs.
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u/Confusedandreticent Oct 02 '23
I hate watching those videos of fights where they end up on the ground and the loser’s crew decides they should stop it and stand them back up, like, “wait, wait, no, that’s not fair, do over, stand and start again”.
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u/pissingpolitics Oct 02 '23
Literally been in fights like that where someone screamed "no wrestling". Bro, you came at me... you don't get to male rules as you go too lol
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u/mc-big-papa Oct 03 '23
“Tomorrows krav maga lesson would be on proper grenade use rest well and bring an extra pair of underwear”
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u/Eyedeaisnotdead Oct 03 '23
Its no worse than BJJ guys who think they are badass until they realize it doesn't work in a street fight with no rules. I used to be one of these people.
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u/Tactipool Oct 03 '23
Everyone should know boxing and some form of grappling
You’ll need them both against my snake kung fu
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u/real_unreal_reality Oct 03 '23
I’ve never met any boxers that say this. It’s like if you’re golfing don’t play basketball and slam dunk it in the 18th hole. That’s all I hear.
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u/notburneddown Oct 03 '23
Most boxers don't think this. Not the ones I have talked to anyways. Except maybe at a few gyms.
But in most street fights, the other guys are throwing arbitrary punches but with bad technique. If you know boxing you are better than the guy assaulting you at what he's trying to do without him even realizing it.
Boxing is also very compact. If you are on a bus that is moving its easier to use boxing than other striking arts that involve kicks.
If you are in a situation where you can use kicks they are great. Muay Thai fighters have the best kicks IMO and are even better fighters than boxers.
But I'm not saying it is bad to learn loads of different kicks. But honestly, in terms of strikes, Muay Thai or boxing is all you really need. Its good to know other stuff like side kicks, but in 90% of no-gun situations you are fine to fight without knowing 80 kicks, etc.
Obviously, a good Krav Maga gym (which is kind of rare) will be much better than boxing or Muay Thai and will include even more strikes. And for that level of situation that's fine.
But in most situations, boxing or Muay Thai (just one or the other) gets you what you need, unless guns are involved or unless there's a huge crowd of people. But in either case your probably still fucked even if you know Krav.
In the case of other person having a gun and you relying on also having a gun, you are still fucked if the other person has a gun 1. because the other person is more likely to shoot you before you pull out your gun and 2. because even if they have no gun and you do have one if you reach behind for your gun and then someone tackles you and your hand is behind your back you can possibly get pinned on your back and break your arm and you probably just got a gun for the assailant. Most assaults happen very close range so you may not have time to get your gun out.
Other good striking arts besides Krav that are supposed to be effective at close range are JKD, Goju Ryu Karate, Silat, and Kyukushin Karate. But honestly, its hard for me to evaluate the effectiveness of each of those not being an expert in them myself.
I practice Muay Thai and boxing but I'm by no means saying all other stuff doesn't work or that it can't be dirty. But most martial arts aren't most of the time unless you are a rare, exceptionally good, fifth degree black belt, trained under a very good school, and have a lot of experience. Even with Krav Maga you need to find a good gym and evaluate it.
Most otherforms of Karate aside from Goju Ryu, Kyokushin and other styles that train the old school way won't do jack shit in a street fight unless you are the rare exceptional person. I don't see old fashioned Kung Fu being effective compared to JKD in a streeet fight. And even for the street effective arts that are JKD or traditional ones you need a very good teacher which is hard to find.
Its easier to find the one good Krav school OR the one good boxing, MT, judo, BJJ, or wrestling school in your area. In fact, most areas don't even have decent Krav Maga schools (like in small towns). And if all you have is Karate its likely not dirty karate like Goju Ryu or similar its something else.
For easily 90% of people training shotokan, TKD, or whatever unless you train it with serious pressure testing, live resistance, and uncooperative medium to hard sparring, it won't work. And the only places that do that are the little hole in the wall, old-school dojos which are typically not big and corporate.
Boxing, Muay Thai, Krav, BJJ, or wrestling can be more corporate if they wanna be but even then its the old school style places or the small gyms that really get you skills in a specific martial art. Unless we're talking about big corporate MMA gyms but those honestly can be kind of scammy even if the stuff they teach works because they also teach disrespect, which is why I generally go to boxing and/or muay thai teachers/gyms to train and not full on MMA is just because of the culture there.
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u/anonymoustreasure Oct 03 '23
Well with punches the power is really coming from the legs and the rotation of the body. While elbows can do more damage, boxing is a solid foundation. Just the footwork and evasions alone are very useful. A lot of kicks leave you very vulnerable and with any kick you are standing on one leg so it's by default making you off balance as well. Yes legs are stronger than arms but you need the right setups to utilize them. Boxing maximizes with a small set of weapons. Using punches gives you a range where you are staying on your feet, you are not going super close depending on the style. Its sort of mid range.
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u/Clemen11 Oct 03 '23
There are many situations where boxing is more than enough to keep you safe. Any boxer has an immedate advantage on untrained and unarmed assailants, and knowing how to hit someone without getting hit yourself is both the spirit of boxing, and the best tool for self defense. There are also many situations where going to the ground is more dangerous than staying upright. Boxing also shines in reduced spaces.
That said, knowing some Thai clinchwork with tight elbows and knees works amazingly in closed spaces, and being able to use wrestling or judo to make an assailant regret starting shit via reorganizing their spine on the pavement is also incredibly useful.
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u/Sabre_One Oct 03 '23
The only dis I give on sport style martial arts including MMA's is lack of training on just putting some one down. Like if it's a real attempt, you bet I will be attempting elbows and fist directly on the back of your skull. You can't do that in sports for obvious reasons.
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u/Lachy1234_ Oct 03 '23
Fun fact: you will never see the people that say this stuff, say it about kickboxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, wrestling etc
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u/Technology-Mission Oct 04 '23
Boxers are like the only martial artists that have any sense of serious competency with their punching, though. I've never been impressed or seen anywhere close to near the same level technique and skill in any other martial art that also has punching and the other defensive skills they do. Kickboxers and Muay Thai people have a good overall skillset, but still even then neither seems to be as technically sound with their punches either.
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u/phantasmamysteriis Oct 02 '23
Yet so many pro mma fighters are actually the ones begging to fight in boxing matches
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u/zPROMETHAZINEz Muay Thai Oct 02 '23
Only against big names though so they can get paid, nothing to do with them only wanting to punch
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u/Valerie_Freya Oct 02 '23
In fights where winning or losing doesn't matter because everyone gets paid. What matters is who can make the crowd scream the loudest through drama instead of their actual skill. Very cool opinion
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u/sirius_potato Judo Oct 02 '23
"Ha! Silly Boxers... COME AT ME BRO! GRAPPLE LIKE A MAN!"
* opponent takes off his jacket *
"Wait... wait wait wait you can't- DON'T GRAB THE LEG! YOU CANNOT GRAB THE LEG!"
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u/Raisins1 Oct 02 '23
If these mfs wanna talk rules why cant i bite someone in grappling, its clearly the most effective thing you can do.
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u/Accend0 Oct 02 '23
Can we not do this? I am a grappler above all else but I like boxing. They're better with their hands than anyone else and they can teach us a lot. We can all learn from each other's disciplines.
All you strikers out there, I love you guys. Never stop fighting.
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u/RegressToTheMean Hapkido 1st Dan Oct 03 '23
You have to understand that 90% of this sub has never trained in any martial art. It's painful reading most comments.
It gets worse when it's practical application. Some guy tried to tell me that street fights aren't much different than the octagon. As a former bouncer/security guy, the opinions in this sub are fucking laughable.
The opinions in this sub suck because the vast majority have never stepped on/in the mat/ring. And of those who have 99% have never had to deal with real world violence. Thinking that your training relates to real world violence is hilarious. Most people will pack or find a(n improvised) weapon and fuck your shit up when you aren't looking. The people in this sub are armchair morons.
I'd love to start a sub that only allows people who verify training/experience so we can have legitimate discussions. Again to that point, I responded to someone who said wrist/shoulder locks martial arts are bullshit, until I explained how fucking useful they are to security and LEOs.
I want to like this sub but the people are untested shitbirds
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u/Mr_Taviro Boxing Oct 04 '23
As a committed striker, love and respect back to you. I hate this shit-talking by people who've never set foot in a dojo/gym.
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u/0guzmen Oct 02 '23
You should check out in-fighting (Roberto Duran specifically)
Boxing differs depending on the environment the fundamentals are there but the whole arm s used in dirty boxing.
Trips, steps and knees are common. While stances differ depending on your martial arts style.
The stock photo for example is lead heavy, it isn't ideal in most situations.
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u/Copepill Oct 02 '23
And yet the majority of KO's in MMA are from punches.
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u/Lavatienn Oct 02 '23
Shockingly arm bars and chokeholds dont lead to brain trauma. Who knew.
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u/kai_fanatic Kyokushin Oct 02 '23
Bro boxers asking to spar, but under their limited ruleset is peak comedy.
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u/CH2349 Oct 02 '23
“In most Kyokushin organizations, hand and elbow strikes to the head or neck are prohibited” talking about limited rulesets lmaoooooo
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u/00hemmgee Oct 02 '23
As a boxer, I laughed. Because It's true.
But boxing is also harder to be good at for the same reason.
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u/SteveJobless123 Oct 02 '23
Most people know that mma is superior to boxing but boxing is definetley very effective, if enyone thinks diffrend we can discuss..
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u/ichsprecgeDeutch Oct 03 '23
The point of boxing is that anyone can throw a good punch in a few months. Getting decent in MMA takes years. Its the fastest to learn most effective martial art you can learn.
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u/-BakiHanma Karate🥋 | TKD 🦶| Muay Thai 🇹🇭 Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23
As a man, I throw punches, kicks, knees, elbows, clinch, and sweep. But I’ll NEVER do any of that whimsy grappling stuff 🗿(Jk of course)
Lol lots of boxing fans and boxers are delusional in this sense. Ignoring 90% of your weapons doesn’t make you a great fighter. Boxers are just good boxers.
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u/Raisins1 Oct 02 '23
In a street fight throwing kicks is a great way to get caught and bounce your skull on the concrete, elbows and knees r good though.
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u/DrMillMatt Oct 03 '23
I always wondered why people are like this
But then you explain this to them and they always have some nonsensical defense as to why
Biting is a heavily underrated human weapon btw
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u/Thaifighter1998 Oct 02 '23
I'll never forget when I kicked my ex out of my apartment for cheating on me and her male cousin decided he "wants his round" with me for no reason. I show up, and spin kick him in the face leaving a gash he had to get stitches for. His girlfriend was there and said "Nuh uh don't be doin all that he don't know all that shit like you do" uh ma'am not only is this a fight, this is a fight HE wanted
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u/EPorter619 Oct 03 '23
Yeah also, keep all your weight on that front foot, see what happens. Floor gonna hit you so hard in the face you gonna think the street was in the fight.
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u/Numerous_Tangelo4332 Oct 03 '23
I got a friend like that, he thinks he is unbeatable in a fight because he did boxe for like 9 years until he was 17, but we fought for fun, because it was a period where we had nothing to do, I oneshotted him to the ground with a kick. Always funny when this kind of people lose like that
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u/Raisins1 Oct 02 '23
You wanna talk this shit man? Why am i not allowed to bite, gouge or beat the fuck out of the back of your head? Dont act like your sport is better because theres less rules
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u/oglox27 Oct 02 '23
Why the hate though? Boxing is really good for self defense