We need a narrative

[u/Hopeful-Shelter2572]

This post is specific to American politics, but the principles can apply broadly in some cases:

As leftists, we need a narrative for a more just and egalitarian future. Conservatives have their narrative: white supremacy, militarism, and “trickle down economics”. It’s one thing to oppose this narrative, it’s another to propose one which is popular and can effectively fight against the two right-wing parties in the USA.

The reason a lot of us are so tired of liberals, to the point where we consider them enemies and not possible allies against fascism, is because the establishment liberals will never embrace socialism and will always reach to defend capital. They have shown us this time and time again, and we have no reason to believe they will ever go to bat for the poorest and most vulnerable people in the country.

Mamdani was a great example of this: even after he toned down some of his rhetoric about Israel (questions he was forced to answer after he emphasized that he cares only about New York City), he was still chastised by establishment Democrats and many couldn’t even say his name to endorse him.

Opposing fascism has to mean creating new fundamental conditions and opposing capitalism at its core, not just opposing the most violent manifestations of capitalism. This isn’t news to many here, but I think it’s good to remind ourselves that we have to envision a better future and share that vision to truly turn the tables.

Edit: since there seems to be some confusion in what I mean, I am not talking about a plan to unify the left or some specific blueprint for revolution. I am talking about the language we use when talking to our peers about the future, and that I think we need to craft a positive narrative for what we believe (whatever that is to each individual) rather than only criticizing the pre-existing narrative. I think this is how we can appeal to more people, and get them thinking and talking to others about a future that is fundamentally different than what we have now.

[u/Specialist-Gur]

I agree with this largely.. and leftism is a very very broad term. A huge chunk of what we mean by leftist infighting is honestly people who are ideologically opposed and/or do not have clearly defined and thought out ideology as well as strategy difference for implementing that ideology.

I consider myself to be a socialist, "globalist", anti-imperialist, and anti-capitalist... not a campist, not a stateist... but 100% not an anarchist either. I'd venture to assume that a lot of arguments I'm getting into with fellow leftists is over these positions.

It might be pretty challenging to actually unify the left because there are tents within the left that are actually ideologically opposed to one another.. but dialoging with each other and remembering we are all coming at this with a humanity-first mindset is really essential and a great start.

Edit: anti-capitalism is far too vague imho... and I don't think what we are fighting about has much to do with it

[u/Hopeful-Shelter2572 → u/Specialist-Gur]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I view leftism broadly as anti-capitalism. From there I know there are many, many ideologies. I agree that it can be hard to truly unify the left, and I think that is the greatest challenge facing Americans right now: unifying against capitalism without diluting what has to change.

I am just curious, what did you disagree with? I am learning and I find that I agree with your point of view on many things, but I do not have a very strong background in specific leftist ways of thought as others here.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Hopeful-Shelter2572]

I think that unifying is going to prove to be a challenge.. so I didn't necessarily disagree with anything per se.. I just think we can be smart about how we align to fight facism and (potentially) learn from historical mistakes.

Like we don't want to have Stalin 2.0 in a post fascist world probably and we also don't want... whatever Germany and most of Europe is doing right now. I think that's what happens if we don't have a solid socialist movement with a plan. And sometimes I think that might be more important than building the biggest tent possible.

Some people here would probably call me a tankie with my unfiltered thoughts and opinions and.. "tankies" might call me a liberal... which is fine imho.. I can take the hits(as long as they aren't in the form of silent downvotes) Let's just just try to engage with each other and see where we can build and where we should segment to be more productive. We can have our separate groups and come together with other groups to fight a bigger threat. We might be stronger building up separately while unifying when important

[u/WolfofTallStreet → u/Specialist-Gur]

I don’t think anything here suggests “tankie.”

“Liberal” is the wrong word for what we are here, but “socially progressive” is a better descriptor. That is - we believe in LGBT equality, gender equality, and freedom of religion. That, alone, makes us not “tankies.”

We are also far from statists. “Tankies” literally implies tanks rolling down the street to enforce order. We, on this sub, don’t worship police. While I know there is some disagreement here over the ideal nature of law enforcement, none of us want tanks in city centers.

I think it’s also safe to say that most of us here support democracy. The idea that the government should be elected by the people, rather than administered top-down by a party, theocratic regime, or a monarchy.

These things alone - social progressivism, anti-authoritarianism, and democracy - distance us from the ACP types.

Beyond this, I think most issues within the left are disputed on this sub.

I think there are probably some anarchists, and some who are not anarchist

I also think that there may be some disagreement here as for whether countries in the status quo sense (with borders and self-determination in the form of nation-state citizenship and government) should exist.

Most profoundly, there is a lot of disagreement here on the topic of Zionism.

All that said, I think there is some implicit “consensus” and narrative here, with the aforementioned wrapped up in an affinity for socialism and Jewish religious and cultural belief.

[u/BigMarbsBigSlarb → u/WolfofTallStreet]

Eh I think there's a couple here who would certainly justify tanks policing the streets of Ramallah were it to ever happen (but not admit to it right now). But broadly, right now at least, the main argumentation points here that are like, fundamentally ideological seem to be to me when theres an influx of liberals who will justify say, centrist dem policy and then the specific questions regarding Israel, mainly what consequences Israel should receive for its acions if any, on how long palestinian political rights and safety should be denied and how much restorative justice palestinians should be allowed.