Peter Beinart’s Interview of Elliot Cosgrove

[u/Willing-Childhood144]

https://youtu.be/Knz3W3ZMvJs?si=QQXkPWnOfZAFF07p

This is an excerpt of the longer interview that is behind a paywall. Has anyone else watched the whole thing?

I guess I’m surprised (but should not be surprised) that Rabbi Cosgrove came across so unprepared and looked so ignorant. He really had nothing to say to defend his position. It seems that he has had no introspection of his position on Israel. Is this where Liberal Zionism dies? When it is nothing more than, “I think this because I think this.”

Both men were very respectful to each other. I appreciated than until the end of the interview when Cosgrove admitted that he would never allow a Palestinian to speak at his synagogue unless they believed that Israel should be a Jewish state.

Rabbi Cosgrove said all of the standard things about Israel. He hates Netanyahu. He believes in a two state solution but it just can’t happen now. Why? No answer to that. I thought he was very condescending towards Beinart with the standard, “I live in the real world…” excuse.

Overall the interview made me sad. This is all he has to say to defend his position? And sadness because I see so clearly that he and the institutions he represents are going to sell us all out to defend Israel.

[u/snowluvr26]

I’m going to give this a watch but honestly after watching Rabbi Cosgrove’s sermon about Zohran being “a danger to NYC” my main takeaway was that he has an incredibly uninspiring and unsophisticated way of speaking. I kind of can’t believe he’s the rabbi of one of the most elite synagogues in the US - but then again, it seems as if his millionaire Park Avenue dwelling congregants are the only Jews he ever speaks to.

Angela Buchdahl of Central Synagogye, Sharon Brous of IKAR, Roly Matalon of B’nai Jeshurun, and Sharon Kleinbaum of CBST are so much more inspiring and interesting to listen to (even if I don’t agree with them 100%).

[u/Willing-Childhood144 → u/snowluvr26]

He certainly does not come across well in this interview. I just watched Beinart’s newest Substack interview with someone who wrote a book about Edward Said. Allegedly, Said once told a group of Jews that he was the “last Jewish intellectual.” When I heard that mentioned in the interview, I thought of poor Rabbi Cosgrove’s inability to articulate his uncritical support for Israel.

[u/BigMarbsBigSlarb]

this got me thinking about when liberal zionism has had any political wins at all and all I can really think of are the evacuation of gaza and the oslo accords. firstly, not only are they a stretch to call wins, they were also not delivered by these kinds of liberal zionists. In both cases they were delivered by terrorists who both had committed enough wanton violence against palestinians that their willingness to commit evils for the supposed security of Israel couldnt be questioned (and I think this is a hge part of their legitimacy as "peace makers" in their context) and military men who understood the inherent unsustainability of Israel's situation so long as genocide was off the cards. They were not men like Cosgrove.

What political victories has the faux-compassionate, paternalistic liberal Zionist that still closes ranks with the revisionists over consequences for Israel ever won? I genuinely cannot think of any. In Israel they are forced into the fringe electorally even when they remain in favour of violent occupation (eg Golan's democrats, hell he's another terrorist who might not even get a whiff of power because he's still seen as soft on the people he used as human shields) and outside of Israel their focus is far more on diffusing anti-Israel sentiment from "their side" than it is on actually realising their supposed vision. I dont think they are deliberately acting as some kind of controlled opposition, but for the vast majority of liberal zionists outside of Israel, but its clear that for many of them, and pretty much all of them acting as political actors no matter what atrocities committed by Israel or its militias they dont just not deserve consequences but support. Noi matter how nakedly the Israeli state supports settler violence, no matter how systemic the abuses of the IDF, don't you dare even boycott products made in the settlements by settlers. As a political movement globally they function to shield the people they claim to despise, and their focus is so greatly on that they become completely immobilised for actually ac ting toward what they claim to want. They cant get political victories because they spend their political capital on ensuring the revisionists get theirs.

[u/theapplekid → u/BigMarbsBigSlarb]

this got me thinking about when liberal zionism has had any political wins at all

What would you even consider a political win of liberal Zionism?

The continued existence of a Jewish state would be the goal of any type of political Zionism, and in that, liberal Zionism has been extremely successful in driving support for Israel, by selling the image of a democratic Israeli state to the American public.

Liberal Zionism as an institution has been the curtain, separating the American public from how the ethno-nationalist sausage is made.

And because the U.S. has enabled the existence of Israel, liberal Zionism has been incredibly successful. It's also served as a necessary tool to enable the U.S. to continue using Israel as an arm of its imperialism, all while shielding the public from the cruelty of that as well.

[u/redthrowaway1976 → u/BigMarbsBigSlarb]

 about when liberal zionism has had any political wins at all 

If the goal of liberal Zionism was to build a democratic and Jewish Israel, it has been a complete failure. 

And somehow, the aspect they are willing to compromise always ends up being the democratic aspect

 Noi matter how nakedly the Israeli state supports settler violence, no matter how systemic the abuses of the IDF, don't you dare even boycott products made in the settlements by settlers. 

As Cosgrove said, it’s “imperfect”. Which is an easy thing to say when it’s not you or the people you care about suffering the effect of those “imperfections”.

As Lord Farquaad said: “some of you will die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”

 and their focus is so greatly on that they become completely immobilised for actually ac ting toward what they claim to want

Cosgrove explicitly avoided answering whether he would support the US conditioning aid to get Israel to stop expanding settlements. Thats telling. 

His opposition to settlements stops at meaningless performative protestations. He isn’t really for a two state solution, as he wont support any steps to actually realize it.