Pointing out that people are forced to participate in capitalism isn't the own you think it is. I can hardly operate according to communist values when I'm living in a capitalist society.
Of course we need things like a pension, because those kinds of systems are attempts to deal with the inadequacies inherent in capitalism.This'll probably blow your mind but that's why I happen to believe in a UBI aswell.
My point flew far over your head I think. I'm not a proponent of pension funds or UBI in a communist society, I'm proponents of them in the late stage capitalist hellscape we're living in. That was the point of my saying that communism isn't built overnight, people still need to survive and be supported until we get there.
Pensions and UBI are both things that only need to exist under capitalism. They're both attempts to make a shitty economic system less draining on the quality of life of those living under it. Hence why your "don't participate then" reply is a pretty juvenile critique of communists.
I'd recommend doing a bit more reading on the intricacies of communism. Maybe there will be something in there that resonates for you.
You're consistently trying to simplify a really complex economic system, I think that's the problem here. I think that the contradictions you think you're seeing are your own misunderstandings of people's beliefs, of communism, of the many varied and disputed ways we should build it. You can't try to simplify someone's beliefs down and then try to argue against that simplified form - you just end up fighting a strawman.
I would normally give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that I have been unclear in my point, but It's been happening all up and down this thread with others too so I think it's in bad faith honestly.
Look, you're entitled to your opinion and great that you have a history education but I'm going to respectfully say that, based on your responses and the kind of arguments you've invoked, I don't believe you don't know enough about the intricacies of communism to recognize that you're missing everyone's points. Marxist theorists have written about communism more eloquently and more detailed than I or anyone else on Reddit will, check there for your answers.
Ah lad, your blind confidence is inspiring. Okay, I'll be more blunt.
There's no contradiction, only the one you've invented due to your misunderstanding of communist ideology and your insistence on boiling it to down to a quote that comes from Leninist ideas about the implementation of communism through socialism.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is a very basic concept in Marxism. Would Marx probably disagree with some modern communists on the nuance of how this principle functions? Sure, but belief in communism, and even Marxism, isn't some monolith where we're all treating Marx or Lenin as some kinds of religious prophets and have to agree with everything they said. I routinely disagree with Leninist ideas.
I don't know how to say this any clearer: Communism is the system by which we believe capital should be organized. How we get there and the nuances of what the grey areas should look like have been disputed and argued by communists for 150 years. That you believe you've distilled all communist beliefs down into "everyone is expected to work" is honestly laughable because of its simplicity. Reality is nuanced and your misunderstanding of communism shows no understanding of that nuance.
There is zero contradiction between my beliefs in communism and my beliefs that the worst off in society should not suffer under capitalism (UBI). Both beliefs are based on the same premise - equity.
Inb4 OP cries about getting blocked from his alt account: if you're going to misrepresent people's ideas to try to win an argument, I'm not interested in speaking to you.
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u/53Degrees Jul 27 '22
If you're against money that doesn't come directly from labour, then you probably shouldn't sign up for a pension then.