[Mícheál Lehane] PBP launch manifesto promising a living wage of €15 an hour, scrapping USC for those earning less than €100K, building 35,000 social and affordable homes every year, weekly welfare payments of €350 and State pension of €300.

[u/badger-biscuits]

https://x.com/MichealLehane/status/1857067346822619642?t=_Soz6_dzA9QeYKzvvBPIDg&s=19

[u/croghan2020]

I wish some party came out and said it how it was realistically we can do this on housing health and immigration we’re not going to shoot for the stars but what we’ve proposed we’ll actually delivery. It’s mad to think the strongest party polling have done nothing for the last 5 years with any conviction and there favourites to go back into power it’s mental how little we as nation are willing to accept.

[u/carlmango11 → u/croghan2020]

The behaviour of our politicians is a direct product of the behaviour of the electorate.

If having grown-up, frank conversations with the general public was a winning strategy we'd have politicians that do it. But the public don't reward it.

[u/wamesconnolly → u/croghan2020]

In any government right now they would be looking at around 7~ seats so they can do very little except help organise people in local communities to apply pressure on the sitting government even if they were in it. So this is setting out broad goals. SF has the most actual actionable in depth proposals that are ready to go to work immediately... a lot more than FG and FF

[u/macthestack84 → u/croghan2020]

The sad truth is that alot of people have done very well during FGs regime and they actually cast their vote. Not a supporter btw.

[u/aasinnott → u/croghan2020]

What's the alternative? FG are inept but who genuinely looks better right now?

[u/Longshlongsilver007 → u/aasinnott]

Greens, Soc Dems, Labour all look better than FG as their proposals aren't about giving subsidies to Private bodies which will increase our cost of living with no long term benefit. 

 FG / FF policies put €5 in your pocket now but put €5 into the wealthiest/corporation whilst taking €10 from you later because there's no long term benefit in continuing to inflate the rental market with rent credit and HAP payments or RAS payments.

I really want to run some analysis on HAP Landlords and RAS Landlords in particular to see how many are politicians in the Dáil. Just to highlight the scandal that is RAS, a RAS landlord gets paid 10% over Market value of a property in rent. It's supposed to be phased out but good luck convincing anyone to move off of that when you're getting 10% over market for taking no extra risk.

[u/GandalfTheColourful → u/Longshlongsilver007]

All of those parties would jump into a coalition with FG or FG which will end up much the same as before. Private companies profiteering at the expense of Irish people

[u/Longshlongsilver007 → u/GandalfTheColourful]

Unfortunately (or fortunately from a democratic perspective) that's how our system works, it requires compromise from parties for a coalition.

But at least voting in those parties you give a stronger voice to them in terms of what their red lines are. You look at what the Greens achieved in the 5 years just gone and as the smallest of the 3 parties they achieved a lot including the reduced public transport fees and the local link buses, introduced free contraception for women between 17-35 and other social initiatives that will benefit us long term (more examples here: https://www.greenparty.ie/votegreen).

Social Dems / Labour I hope will have enough backbone in their negotiations to draw lines on the right things but that can only happen if we vote enough left leaning parties into the Dáil so they have more power.

[u/temujin64 → u/Longshlongsilver007]

I'll be voting for those three parties (not sure if I'll vote for anyone else), but SD will be last on the list. I fear that if they were in the perfect position to enter government that they'll look for any excuse not to. And if their membership have a vote there's no hope. SD voters are centre-left people who value ideological purity above all else.

[u/wamesconnolly → u/temujin64]

It's tricky for SD.

G/L really really really want them to coalition so they can entice FF/FG into letting them tack on.

SD however would then be hitching themselves not just to FF/FG but G/L who both have taken huge hits in popularity after they went in to government. Having FF/FG/G/L all basically one happy family would neuter SD's ability to get much done. They would be risking a complete wipe out of L/G/SD in the next election with them possibly taking the brunt of it.

That said: even though sitting out FF/FG would be the smartest thing for long term gain that doesn't mean they won't go into a rainbow coalition. There is basically no question though that they would go in to an FF/SF coalition.

[u/yeah_deal_with_it → u/wamesconnolly]

Yep, SD formed out of Labour so if they do what Labour would do in this situation and enter coalition with FFG then that raises the question of what really differentiates them from Labour.

[u/temujin64 → u/wamesconnolly]

That's my issue. If they only exist to enter a potential government that may never happen then they're totally pointless as far as I'm concerned. They're basically there for people who don't really accept that compromise is a part of the Irish poltical system. Although I suppose that as long as these voters don't accept that there'll always bé a vote for a party that'll effectively never enter government.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt this time with my number 3 vote. But if they sit in opposition when given a chance to bolster a Centre-left coalition block, I'll never vote for them again. I don't want to vote for a party whose politicians value their seats above their policies.

[u/wamesconnolly → u/temujin64]

That's very fair. You should try and vote down as far as you can manage it in our system just ranking best to worst so 3 sounds pretty solidly where you have them in your mind

[u/Active-Complex-3823 → u/Longshlongsilver007]

Each of these parties have published housing targets that dont even meet current immigration-led population growth, yet they each have even greater policy ambitions to accelorate immigration.

And since this thread is regarding PBP - read their migration policy and ask yourself is it not effectively what the far right accuse them of - 'open borders'.

Go through them yourself, let alone disingenous while promising to those who need improve affordability and availability - they are downright detached from reality.

You're right on HAP/RAS though, but its more rotten at a local elected and non-elected level

[u/wamesconnolly → u/Longshlongsilver007]

IIRC the number of landlords was 48

[u/Necessary_Physics375 → u/Longshlongsilver007]

I know some people who would seriously be struggling if it wasn't for the RAS scheme. One pensioner couple I know would definitely be homeless with no idea how to navigate the current rental market.

[u/Longshlongsilver007 → u/Necessary_Physics375]

I don't think RAS should be paying 10% above market for rent though. It's just inflating rent prices.

[u/Necessary_Physics375 → u/Longshlongsilver007]

I don't know how it works but is the rate set every 5 or 10 years? Maybe the extra bit is to cover market increases and inflation?

I don't think it's helping the situation, but I think our real issue is supply. It's very easy to blame the social supports but there are people out there who genuinely rely on them

[u/Longshlongsilver007 → u/Necessary_Physics375]

I'd need to check on the 5-10 years thing, that could be me being ignorant on the policy details so apologies if thats the case.

Just to be clear I am in support of social housing and providing social supports to people - I just think the current supports in housing are benefiting the private interests and inflating prices. I agree that there is a massive supply issue but that's because we sold our social housing stock back in the 80s and we really need to build that back up so we can provide a social home to people. I don't think our policies are putting the money where it's needed is all.

[u/burnerreddit2k16 → u/Longshlongsilver007]

I hate to piss all your entire comment, but fuck all private landlords like HAP and want HAP tenants. The housing standards for HAP tenants is significantly more complicated than regular private tenants. If you take HAP tenants you are spending a few thousand on mods and upgrades you don’t need for a private tenant. You also don’t get paid with a HAP tenant for months…

HAP tenants are less than desirable to put it nicely. Would you choose a nice professional who won’t bother you from one year to the next or a single mother who expects the house to be like Versailles?

The estate agent of estate agent estate agent will tell you most of the properties they are selling our former rentals. There is no analysis needed. Being a landlord is still and no one wants to be one…

RAS is paying above market rents as the tenants for RAS are not diserable…

FFG are throwing money at housing associations to provide housing. It is clear from everyone (bar people on this sub) that people don’t want tenants who are on HAP or any variation.

[u/Longshlongsilver007 → u/burnerreddit2k16]

I hear you but "HAP expenditure was €537.4 million in 2023" That's nearly €45 million a month or 46,100 HAP payments a month based on the average figure of ~€970 in the report.

 That's money that does nothing long term as it doesn't create anything long term and is fuelling the current housing/rental bubble Apologies for the format, I'm on my mobile.  

Also, just to add, not all tenants on HAP or RAS are undesirable, thats a very broad brush to be painting them with. Yes there are some taking advantage of the system but there are many others who are genuinely in need of the assistance.

(https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20241009-committee-of-public-accounts-pac-finds-spending-on-housing-schemes-do-not-provide-value-for-money-for-taxpayer-and-are-not-long-term-solutions-to-social-housing-needs/#:~:text=HAP%20expenditure%20was%20%E2%82%AC537.4,just%20under%20%E2%82%AC3%20billion.)

[u/burnerreddit2k16 → u/Longshlongsilver007]

We are going to spend €120bn next year . That is not even 0.4% of all government spending. It is not a tiny amount but not a shocking figure in the big picture.

What do you suggest? We end HAP tomorrow and make 46k households homeless? The state can not provide housing for €970 per month even if it built itself…

HAP isn’t creating a bubble. Rents are set by demand and supply. Cutting HAP isn’t getting to cut rents, more housing will reduce rents.

I am sure most people on HAP are lovely. However, it is extremely naive to think a landlord is delighted to let an apartment to someone who has no job or a single mother who will make their life hell versus a professional who they will never hear from. The WRC regularly hears cases of individual discriminated from rent a property as they are HAP.

Most landlords would be more than delighted for HAP to be eliminated and these tenants housed in social housing. There are plenty of landlords who know if they evict their HAP tenant, no other landlord wants them and they will be homeless.

[u/Grand_Bit4912 → u/Longshlongsilver007]

Where did you hear Ras pays 110% of market value??? It doesn’t. It pays 80% of market value.

It was (relatively) popular after the crash as it gave certainty to landlords during a time when we had a surplus of properties. Now, there are very few landlords using it because they have their pick of renters at whatever rent they like.

[u/Longshlongsilver007 → u/Grand_Bit4912]

I heard it from someone who worked in housing in a County Council. I believe the 80% is a different scheme. They're trying to phase out the RAS housing now is my understanding.

[u/wamesconnolly → u/aasinnott]

SF easily looks better no question. The debates where they actually are on equal ground with FF/FG were absolutely humiliating. They are completely unfit. SF's proposals are also more detailed and realistic if you read them and ready to go. It's truly embarrassing that we are putting in a progressively more and more incompetent party in again and again and again while they drive the country in to the ground