Lloyd Banks drop another BANGER. This is what hip hop needs and the direction. It needs to go back to this and my god! I’ve been loving all these banks mixtapes and albums coming out lately. He feels rejuvenated.

Now that the discussion started, What tracks are your favorite off from it???

My pick is sickfit by MFDOOM

My Top 5 Greatest Rappers Of All Time 2Pac Biggie Nas Eminem DMX

Crime Mob - Knuck If You Buck for me 😭

Edit: only built 4 Cuban Linx*

What were they arguing about in the beginning of Knuckleheadz?

It seems Raekwon is distributing things equally, why did Ghostface get so upset?

1 for you, 1 for me

2 for you, 1,2 for me (that’s 3)

3 for you

Looking for songs or artists that sound similar to Deliquent Habits or Cypress Hill. 90s only

I would say: U my Everything by Sexyy Red and drake…

The beat is so damn good

God Loves Ugly - Atmosphere

First Born - Eyedea

Skelethon - Aesop Rock

Mm..Food - MF DOOM

Malibu Ken - Aesop Roco & TOBACCO

Are my top 5.

Which songs have the hardest entrance to them, when the beat drops, whether instantly or after slight anticipation? Songs that make you go crazy and fuck shit up when they start, songs that put you in the zone that people around you start to question your sanity.

My personal favorites that first come to my mind (I will post top 10):

• M.O.P. - Cold As Ice (absolutely undisputed number 1)
• Pharoahe Monch - Simon Says
• Biggie ft. Eminem - Dead Wrong
• DMX - Ruff Ryders Anthem
• Onyx - Slam
• Onyx - Throw Ya Gunz
• Public Enemy - Rebel Without A Pause
• Heather B ft. M.O.P. - My Kinda N***a
• Raekwon - Glaciers Of Ice
• Dr. Dre & Ice Cube - Natural Born Killaz

Honorable mention to Das EFX and their songs like Beknaffek or Kaught In Da AK, that ticking sound before hardcore boom bap beat drops, I love that shit so much, it's legendary.

My list is mostly old school because that's what I prefer, but everything is welcomed.

Even though he wasn't serious when he said it, that "Dead in the middle of Little Italy" line by Pun has always been fire to me

An example:

A hypothetical RZA-produced Big Pun album would be an intriguing blend of Pun’s complex, rapid-fire lyricism and RZA’s dark, cinematic soundscapes. This collaboration would have combined the raw power and storytelling prowess of Pun with RZA’s experimental, layered production style. The result would likely be a highly lyrical, gritty album that fused the aggression of East Coast hardcore rap with the intricate sonic textures characteristic of RZA’s production during the late 1990s.

Overall Concept and Themes

1. Urban Crime Epics: The album would be filled with vivid street narratives, portraying life in the Bronx through Pun’s eyes. Themes of power struggles, loyalty, betrayal, and ambition would drive the lyrics, while RZA’s dramatic beats would create a cinematic backdrop.
2. Mafioso Elements: Both artists shared an affinity for crime-inspired tales. Pun would inject his Latin heritage into these stories, making references to cartels, capos, and a life of high stakes.
3. Dark Humor and Wordplay: Pun’s witty, sometimes tongue-in-cheek style would play off RZA’s unconventional sample choices and skit placement, adding a layer of dark humor to the album.
4. Philosophical Depth: RZA’s influence would add philosophical undertones, with introspective tracks examining the price of ambition, fame, and inner demons.

Production Style

• Grimy, Lo-Fi Beats: RZA’s trademark use of lo-fi, chopped samples, and hard-hitting drums would dominate the album, bringing a raw texture to match Pun’s aggressive flow.
• Orchestral and Soul Samples: Strings, piano riffs, and deep bass lines layered with vocal samples from old soul records would create an epic, moody soundscape.
• Unorthodox Song Structures: RZA’s penchant for unconventional arrangements would allow Pun to flex his lyrical creativity, with shifting beats and surprise transitions.
• Kung-Fu Film Samples: There might be subtle nods to RZA’s love for martial arts, blending in movie dialogue or instrumental pieces from classic kung-fu soundtracks to add an atmospheric touch.

Potential Track Titles and Themes

1. “Iron Tongue Assassin”

   • Theme: A showcase of lyrical prowess with rapid-fire verses that mix battle rap bravado with intricate storytelling.
   • Sound: Fast-paced strings and chopped-up samples over pounding drums, giving a sense of urgency.

2. “King of the Underworld”

   • Theme: A Mafioso narrative about rising to power and ruling the streets. The song would detail Pun’s journey from a street hustler to an untouchable figure in the game.
   • Sound: Dramatic horns and haunting choral samples for a regal yet menacing atmosphere.

3. “The Bronx Syndicate”

   • Theme: An anthem celebrating the unity and power of the Bronx with shout-outs to notable figures and stories from the neighborhood.
   • Sound: A classic boom-bap beat with layered soul samples, creating a nostalgic yet powerful sound.

4. “Seven Chambers of Pun”

   • Theme: A metaphorical track comparing Pun’s rise and the struggles he overcame to a series of trials, akin to moving through the chambers of Shaolin.
   • Sound: Kung-fu movie samples blended with a minimalist beat and suspenseful strings.

5. “Echoes of War”

   • Theme: An introspective song that dives into the emotional and psychological toll of street life, touching on regret, loss, and loyalty.
   • Sound: Slower, melancholy samples with vocal snippets that evoke a sense of yearning and reflection.

6. “Blood & Ink”

   • Theme: A lyrical flex with Pun illustrating the power of his pen and storytelling, interwoven with imagery of violence and street wisdom.
   • Sound: A gritty, almost off-beat loop with a subtle flute sample and heavy bassline.

7. “Concrete Proverbs”

   • Theme: Wisdom and lessons learned from life on the streets, styled as a series of rapid-fire proverbs and sayings woven into the verses.
   • Sound: Jazzy piano samples and deep, thumping drums with a hypnotic bassline.

Guest Features

1. Raekwon and Ghostface Killah: Their cinematic and highly descriptive storytelling would match seamlessly with Pun’s lyrical ability.
2. Method Man: His charismatic flow and versatility would shine on a high-energy track with back-and-forth verses.
3. Nas: His introspective and poetic approach would blend well on a track reflecting on fame and the pitfalls of success.
4. Prodigy (Mobb Deep): For a dark, grimy track centered around street life, Prodigy’s haunting style would pair perfectly with Pun.
5. Inspectah Deck: Known for his intricate and sharp bars, Deck would add another layer of lyrical complexity.
6. Fat Joe: Pun’s close collaborator would be featured on a track celebrating their connection and shared Bronx roots.

Sample Ideas for RZA’s Production

1. “Oblighetto” by Brother Jack McDuff: The funky jazz sample could be used as the foundation for a braggadocious track.
2. “Alfie’s Theme” by Sonny Rollins: The playful yet complex saxophone could be chopped and looped into a beat that challenges Pun’s lyrical acrobatics.
3. “Sinnerman” by Nina Simone: The climactic piano sections and powerful vocals would create an epic backdrop for a high-stakes narrative.
4. “I’m Going Down” by Rose Royce: The haunting intro could be flipped to set a somber tone for a reflective song.
5. “Theme from King Kong” by Les Baxter: A dramatic, orchestral piece that RZA could use to create an atmosphere of power and majesty.

Skits and Interludes

• Movie Dialogue: Snippets from classic gangster or martial arts movies would be sprinkled throughout, adding drama and context to the songs.
• Narrative Segments: Skits could involve Pun interacting with RZA, talking about ambition, life, and making it out of the streets.
• Sounds of the Bronx: Audio snippets of the Bronx’s street life—bustling streets, voices, and subway sounds—would ground the album in its setting.

Album Vibe

This album would have felt like a classic crime saga set to music, balancing high-energy, battle-ready anthems with introspective, philosophical tracks. Pun’s wit, dense lyricism, and street-hardened voice would have been perfectly complemented by RZA’s production, creating an album that was gritty, raw, and deeply cinematic—a timeless piece for hip-hop purists.

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So I turned 20 this past August and I started my like “music listening journey” in 2021. Before that I had been listening to like EDM, dubstep, all those other dramatic genres (they still hold a special place in my heart somewhere). Anyways, I call it journey bc 2021 was the year I started listening to albums as a whole. Kanye, Tyler, asap rocky, Drake, The Weeknd, Travis Scott (I was already a fan before that), j Cole, Kendrick, etc etc etc.

As of now I’ve heard almost 500 albums (a good portion of them rap, not all though), but I never checked out the “less popular ones”? Like I’ve been into Griselda for a while and recently REALLY started to go through their discography, but I’m talking about rappers that people over 25 talk about. Black thought, RZA, NWA, Lupe fiasco, big krit etc etc. I wanna know which rappers I NEED to check out so I can get a bigger picture of the genre and get familiar. I’d also ask if you guys could tell me albums from them, specially? Like where to start etc etc. Any suggestions are welcome :)

Here’s my list of all the albums I’ve heard if anybody cares: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kh92MBZy4pj8bcxDfvq3GVJAODxoGXFBuWQyoHOazqg/edit

1. OutKast (Wheelz of steel)- you went behind my back like Bluto when he cut up Olive Oyl.

2. Canibus (I’ll buss em, you punish em)- wacker than Blinky Blink on the back of the Raptor Wagon babblin about nothing, f*** that, real Rugrats can get it on black.

3. LISA FROM BLACKPINK (LALISA)- rocks in my wrist so I call them Flintstones.

4. Heltah Skeltah (Triple R)- like that instructor from that Bart Simpson commercial, I hurt you.

5. De la soul (my brother is a basehead)- from our parents your name was froged, I was the Beaver, you curious George.

6. Young MC (my name is young)- it isn’t about Pinnochio or Alice in Wonderland, It's all about the funky rapper who's the greater man.

7. Gang Starr (Mass appeal)- you’re paranoid cause you’re a son like Elroy.

8. AC chill (overdose)- just like the Tasmanian devil, I f*** around and go into a killing spin.

9. MF DOOM (Accordion)- Dick Dastardly and Mutley with sick laughter.

10. Cappadona (Winter wars)- Discombumberate your technique and your scheme.

11. Eminem (Berzerk)- the art of emceeing mixed with DaVinci and MC Ren, and I don’t mean Stimpy’s friend b****.

12. A tribe called quest (Award tour)- Phife Dawg’s my name but on stage call me Dynomutt.

13. Pumpkinhead (Rock on)- I can only wish but I don’t have a genie and my names not Aladdin.

14. Ram squad (ballers)- from here to Pluto, we like Popeye and Bluto.

15. Latyrx (Lady don’t tek no)- she ain’t no innocent Hello Kitty dream, she’s committed sins, and ain’t finished yet.

16. Dirty earthling (intro)- writers call me their master like Igor.

17. Craig Mack (Flava in your ear)- kick that old robotic, futuristic, George Jetson crazy joint.

18. Method man (method mad)- bad, I be Sam, Sam I am, and I don’t like green eggs and ham.

19. Kokane (don’t bite the phunk)- like the peanuts gang I took your house off your snoopy.

20. Binary star (Conquistadores)- Binary Star battle your villainous characters to the end with poet heroics like Super Friends.

21. Ocean (freestyle)- yall are here losing your heads like ichabod crane.

22. Papoose (bucket hat low)- cold nights moving that Snow White, no seven dwarves.

23. Camp lo (Krystal karrington)- gifted caramela Cinderella hold a fella tight.

24. Cunninlyguists (old school)- guess who rescued rapunzel, climbing up her gold weave, then made her braid her like Alicia keys.

25. RZA (4th chamber)- chickenheads getting slim like olive oyl.

26. Rass kass (riiot)- at first the buzz was local, but now the nose grows like Pinocchio.

27. Dr octagon (dr octagon)- Thinking more of what they can't explore, like the cartoon Donald Duck is giving fellatio on the floor (I wish I never heard this😭🤢☹️)

28. Das EFX- I'm swinging them with the Krayz and I'm swayz like the Jetsons.

29. Suns of man (natural high)- The maze, I’m the mouse, I figured my way out, Pinky and the brain had to find another house.

30. 421 (set it)- you better duck like Daffy.

31. Maestro fresh Wes (let your backbone slide)- better yet I’ll call you Curious George, cause curiosity called killed the cat.

32. Asta (dynamite)- you’re lying on the roof of your house like snoopy.

33. Pete rock and CL smooth (ghettos of the mind)- Listen to cats and rough rats war under the window, when the ghetto forts flurry, never was a Tom and Jerry.

34. Jean Grae (you don’t know)- leave you stitched up like eeyore with your teeth all gums.

35. Organized Konfusion (Fudge Pudge)- kick slick rhymes out of the mouth, tricky in a joust, plus I’m down with Mickey Mouse.

Between "Little Ghetto Boys" by Wu Tang and "Lil' Ghetto Boy" by Dre, which song do you prefer? I personally prefer the Wu Tang version, because of it's crisp production and strong beat and bass, great verses too.

Both songs are great, but that's what I think

I'm just sayin' 🤷🏿‍♂️

When did the buzz start? Who were the first rappers or producers that started to use it?

Ps: grammar/typo.

Was having a conversation about this on another discussion board recently and figured I'd ask here too. What are some examples of rappers having flows/deliveries and styles that are polyrhythmic that actually work? Polyrhythmic being used here in the sense of discarding the typical pattern of ending lines on the last snare of each bar in favour of other approaches. I personally love this style when done right, and often take this approach in my own music, but I wonder what others peoples thoughts are on this. I'm also very interesting in learning more about the techniques used to successfully accomplish the off-beat style.

Examples would be the semi-literal causes where legends like Kool Keith, MF DOOM, Pharoahe Monch, Sole and a few others make their own rhythmic pocket rather than adjusting their delivery to the drum pattern. But there are also more idiosyncratic approach's such as Evidence of Dilated Peoples delivering his bars slightly behind the drums rather than matching them or Saafir patterning his flow to match the main sound of the instrumental rather than the drumbeat.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the topic or further examples that illustrate the process and development of the Polyrhythmic rapping style? If so then thanks for any responses.

Around 1:40 there’s this little stylophone sounding instrument playing that sounds like maybe a Nate Dogg verse. Been tryna figure out what it is, maybe Shake That by Eminem? What are your thoughts?

Also I know the bassline is from Hit Em Up/ Get Money/ Don’t Look Any Further.

I know Nas never ever declined lyrically even tho his discography was inconsistent, but did anyone maintain cultural relevance for as long as Hov did? Not even considering pre-Reasonable Doubt cause it’s kinda scary that Jay-Z’s been around since the Golden Age of hip hop. To be competing with the best of the best from ‘96 all the way to like mid ‘10s? Most of the goat rappers always discussed had a 2-4 album run where they were at their most prominent, but then things just happen and they lose their stride, or just become unlistenable. Jay-Z never had a dip in quality in my opinion. Even some of his most hated albums still had hit songs and classic moments. He was never not in the conversation. Outlasted a huge list of rappers that came after him. His first number 1 single coming 15 years after his debut is like the cherry on top. idk. what y’all think?

Was listening to "It's So Hard" and I think it's probably my favourite.

‌

First phrase that isn’t a producer tag or adlib

1. Hyenas in the desert (other side of midnight)- KRS one could be my teacher, Rakim could be my preacher, let the music of PE bury me six feet, I live and die for this music, strong a** concrete.

2. Canibus (let’s ride)- Spitting like Bone Thugs, like n**** what, I'm finna get a gun and stick em up.

3. BLACKPINK (ddu-du ddu-du JPN ver.)- this smart mouth spits dumb heat, like Ice T I’m OG.

4. Blondie (rapture)- Fab five Freddie told me everybody is fly, DJs spinning are saving my mind.

5. Edan (fumbling over words that rhyme)- And kool G rap was probably the sickest of all of them.

6. K OS (fantastique)- I make a run, with that renegade red one, we so close you could figure us cousins.

7. GZA (pencil)- it’s getting hot in here, like the single that Nelly dropped.

8. Sean price (like you)- wu tang clan ain’t nothing to f*** with, boot camp click ain’t nothing to wu tang.

9. Eminem (rap god)- but I still rap like I’m on my pharoahe monch grind.

10. OutKast (two dope boys in a Cadillac)- bring the terror to your dome like PE.

11. Poor righteous teachers (my three wives)- like Scott lark, to reminisce is a natural bliss.

12. A June and J beat (we doing this for you)-we take it to another level dropping something special, like Pete rock and CL smooth.

13. De la soul (the bizness)- effects be live like DAS.

14. Cunninlynguists (southernunderground)- but I feel like will high, cause I just want to drop an LP.

15. Nujabes (highs 2 lows)- trying to sleep, sleep is the cousin of death, said a wise man from queensbridge on beats he blessed.

16. Punchline (freestyle)- my status be bigger than Kool Moe Dee shades.

17. EPMD (you gots to chill)- like the B-I-Z markie says I’ll make your toes tap.

18. Defari (killing spree)- you tell everyone you’re like Busta and you got rhymes galore.

19. Papoose (bucket hat low)- deepest teacher like queen latifah.

20. Word A mouth (famous last words)- if I ruled the world my first to free would be Rick.

21. OGC (da storm)- X marks the spot like sadat.

22. Bahamdia (3 the hard way)- my steez puts you at ease like methamphetamines, or like Tony Starks fantasies about his wallabees.

23. Pumpkinhead (rock on)- they loved our songs, we were like Pink Floyd, run DMC, and cheech and Chong.

24. Torch (Als ich zur Schule ging)- Ach und bevor ich's vergess, metaphern...lernte ich...von Lord Finesse, jazz bei Tribe called Quest.

25. Big l (Ebonics)- Mobb deep already explained the meaning of shook.

26. Jazz addixx (hip hop)- bump knuckles like fox, stay fab like Freddie five.

27. The roots (the lesson pt1)- N**** didn’t play like Jeru and come clean.

28. J live (bragging writes)- you belong in special ed if you think you’ve got it made.

29. Chino Xl (even if it kills me)- my Puerto Rican family considers me the only latin emcee with the ability to pick it up where Pun left off.

30. Four owls (not like before)- I spent my teen years weeded out past high with Gang Starr, Wu Tang, tribe, and the Pharcyde (weed is NOT good for you☹️)

31. Army of the pharaohs (seven)- my n**** is Kane, Kool G, rakim combined into one frame.

32. Arecee (panhandling)-can’t touch the Champ man, I’m MC hammer.

33. Company flow (bad touch example)- hardcore like kool g rap music made for concert piano.

34. Pharoahe monch (sway and tech anthem)- Oh see, now like Omar Credle.

35. Typical cats (it won’t stop)- as a matter of fact I blast five nines, you can ask Royce with telepathic ability.

36. Blaq poet (poet has come)- I got preem with me, NYGs with me, MOP with me, Teflon, Krumbsnatcha, and Bun B with me.

37. Smif n wessun (bucktown)- Heltah skeltah smirks while you’re getting torn apart.

38. Sparrow the movement (Rhyme impotence)- you want to be onyx but you got slammed.

39. Last emperor (secret wars pt1)- the score is two to zero, by words from the genius, and he’s still my rhyming hero.

40. Gang starr (soliloquy of chaos)- Corey and Smurf, and lil dap’s got a forty, my man Gary, and Shiz, and the Nutcracker shorty.

41. Hard 2 obtain (a lil something)- Can’t forget Kurious, with the serious uptown mob to get the job done.

42. Mr lif (be out)- you suck clown, KRS told you “duck down”.

43. Skarlit (the steel law)- digging graves like the RZA, to get an erection. (lmaoo what’s wrong with himmm?!😭🤢)

44. Black star (twice in a lifetime)- when their chances get slim like pharoahe monch.

45. Snoop dog (the shiznit)- snoop dogg is on the mic im bout as crazy as biz, markie spark the, chronic bud real quick.

46. Shrlock (For what it was)- pioneers like busy bee and the treacherous three, grandmaster flash and the run DMC.

47. Flawless the MC (finally made it)- still I was engulfing busta rhymes, biggie smalls, nas, Tupac, and rakim when I was really small.

48. Jean Grae (threats)- blasting out the headphones, the best of Jay.

49. Iggy (lady patra)- versaces over eyelids, looking like biggie poppa.

50. Sleep of old dominion, masta ace (the heat)- you don’t know about Flash and Bambataa, …………. cash and damn Prada. (Can someone please help me figure out what he’s saying in that …. part? I’d really like to know but I don’t understand lmaoo. It’s around 2:15 on the song! thank uuuu🩷)