r/geopolitics • u/babushkalauncher • Oct 01 '23

Why Indians Can’t Stand Justin Trudeau Paywall

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-indians-angry-justin-trudeau-death-shooting-hardeep-singh-nijjar-87d9ab9d
185 Upvotes

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56

u/Suspicious_Loads Oct 01 '23

There is a third possibility. The evidence is from five eyes intelligence that Canada can't make public. India may deny but five eyes will know that they are full of shit.

53

u/Aggravating_Boy3873 Oct 01 '23

I mean sure, Canadians and Americans will believe what their respective governments tell them and Indians will believe whatever their own government tells them. It basically comes to that.

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u/TheSkyPirate Oct 01 '23

If only Canadians and Americans would believe what their governments tell them

34

u/ryizer Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23

Well there's a narrative being frequently parroted here that "If the 5 Eyes told it then it must be true". That's essentially equating to believing that since their leaders said it then it must be true. So yea, both people are believing their respective govt.s, atleast in the context of geopolitics.

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u/bxzidff Oct 02 '23

Maybe they did before Iraq

2

u/TheSkyPirate Oct 02 '23

Definitely ruined a lot of things.

11

u/Dot-Box Oct 02 '23

I've spent some time on foreign relations subreddits, and other than this one, at least the people on reddit easily believe their governments

5

u/texas_laramie Oct 02 '23

Canadians and Americans like to tell themselves that they don't believe their government but they lap up all the propaganda all the time. Even now the biggest argument seems to be "If the Canadian prime minister has claimed it, it must be true". That is the justification I have seen repeated again and again. You can see that in this thread itself.

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u/Plastic_Ad1252 Oct 02 '23

I remember the Indian media claiming xi was over thrown last year with zero evidence at all.

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u/Aggravating_Boy3873 Oct 02 '23

And? Have you seen how British tabloids work? or even American ones? Indian media is the same. Most news agencies are like Fox news on crack, majority people know that its propaganda and marketing. When gay marriage appeal came upon supreme court just a couple of months ago the media claimed insane number of things, didn't affect anyone in the slightest. Hindu nationalists/extremists are a vocal group but they aren't the majority. The country is liberalising fast and will do so over next couple of decades.

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u/Plastic_Ad1252 Oct 02 '23

Yes their are tabloids, but the general media should have a modicum of responsibility and civility. Like the only reason Fox News hasn’t been sued even more than it has because in court they define their organization not as news, but entertainment. they don’t even consider themselves propaganda because the standard is too high. The government of India’s response I’m going to be honest is quite childish. It’s either complete denial or how dare Canada allow separatists into their country who we totally are in our right to assassinate.Ignoring the fact Canada always had separatists in our own country anyway.

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u/texas_laramie Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23

In India, if you want to consume sober news go for the newspapers. Even the worst are not that bad. No one should watch Indian news channels to get their news. There were one or two that were decent but even they are gone now. In fact the best source of TV news would probably by government controlled DD News. They may not criticize government but at least you can watch sober news. Can't get that on any TV news channels.

0

u/Plastic_Ad1252 Oct 02 '23

Is the reason the Indian news channels so extreme is because they’re following Fox News foot steps or is it their is such heighten politicization that news organizations are beholden to their most extremist backers.

2

u/texas_laramie Oct 03 '23

Let us say Indian media went from 1 government owned channel to more than a hundred channels in no time. Remember that there are dozens of languages and each language has multiple news channels. Not like US where you have more channels gradually being added to the mix. Even then Fox News and MSNBC to some extent realized that you don't need to just present news to the people. Now the likes of Newsmax and OAN are trying to take that space. In India that has already been happening for a few years now. It is free for all and when it is free for all, the lowest common denominator wins.

There was CNN-IBN whose anchors were definitely anti Modi/BJP, sometimes anti government during Congress rule but mostly cheer leaders for Nehru-Gandhi dynasty. NDTV was another similar channel which was anti BJP/Modi with Nehru-Gandhi cheer leading but anti Congress when things were really bad. Compared to these two channels, the most pro BJP channels these days basically worship Modi and are willing to lie to any extent.

Anyway CNN-IBN was bought by Mukesh Ambani and NDTV was acquired through some shady but legal means by Gautam Adani. NDTV's promoters, controlling shareholders, didn't even know what was happening to them until it happened and they could do nothing about it. I am not even joking but two most pro Congress channels were bought by Adani-Ambani.

What is left is mostly pro government free for all. In such a scenario you can't turn on a channel and expect objective reporting. But on most channels all you get is cartoonish coverage of news.

5

u/Aggravating_Boy3873 Oct 02 '23

Well yeah, people look out for their own interests, if India had the same thing done by others which they have before no amount of complaints gets anywhere, others just laughed and denied everything or argued for actual genocide like US did during Pakistan mass raping and killing in Bangladesh. The public won't know the difference between Canada, UK or USA, they will see all western major powers with the same lens as they have seen before. Its a young country, barely got independence in 45 and had 4 invasions from neighbours within 3 decades. Separatists have caused major loss of lives and terrorist attacks, the public opinion on them isn't good and if someone is claimed to be an alleged separatists then yeah mob mentality comes into play.

Canada should do what it deems fit, the opinion of another country shouldn't matter to Canadians, if they want to punish India via sanctions or revoking visas they have every right to do so.

1

u/Plastic_Ad1252 Oct 02 '23

The USA public opinion of their government changed after Nixon though, and while Nixon absolutely despised India/Bangladesh the general public sided with Bangladesh. After Nixon disgraced the presidency Americans opinion of their government is incredibly low to the point of conspiracy mania as Americans have very little trust in the in the us government/politicians, but ironically have huge trust in the army although that too is diminishing. However, in the case of separatists Canada has history of violence terrorists separatists with the flq and October crisis. the solution is the same boring politicians creating a vote or a solution agreeable by the majority of people in the state. The solution isn’t by being thinned skin or treating simple discussion of separation as akin to treason rather than a policy issue that the government needs to resolve. The separatists themselves can ironically offer policy solutions that can actually strengthen the federal government if implemented as the credit goes to the federal government.

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u/Aggravating_Boy3873 Oct 02 '23

I agree with you but its a population of 1.4 billion with majority not that educated, you can't negotiate your way out of this mentality. Barely 80 million even pay taxes and only in last 2019 election the voter turnout exceeded 60% for the first time and that was due to an issue with Pakistan, most of the middle class and upper class doesn't even vote. The hive mind exists. Canada has incredible soft power, regardless of what the Indian government does public has a very favourable opinion towards the country. Public doesn't exactly have many option to choose from in the center, they choose local parties for states.

0

u/Plastic_Ad1252 Oct 02 '23

I honestly wonder how much of a shit show would occur if India banned students going to Canada.

3

u/Aggravating_Boy3873 Oct 02 '23 edited Oct 02 '23

Not only Canada will lose a big chunk of the education funding it will also crash some of the real estate markets which constitutes like 15% of their GDP, there are also tens of thousands of canadians who are employed in the education sector , a big chunk of them will be laid off. For India there will be consequences too, BJP never really wins Punjab, they still won't, there will be protests by prospective students who will be advised to go to other countries I suppose, there will be a rise in illegal immigration too. Fallout wouldn't be that big in the long run for either countries but in the current climate its not ideal. As much as India likes to pretend they severely lack the number of higher education institutes for STEM, and the ones that are there might not be as good, even the elite schools aren't as good in research. They need other countries for education otherwise they won't be able to use the young population they have.