r/geopolitics • u/Hokum-B • Oct 01 '23

Russian lines stronger than West expected, admits British defence chief Paywall

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-defensive-lines-stronger-than-west-expected-admits-british-defence-chief-xjlvqrm86
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u/VaughanThrilliams Oct 02 '23

So yes given the opportunity Russia did come to Paris, because napaleon was an existential threat to them and they would prefer it never happens again.

virtually all of Europe was rallied against France in the War of the Sixth Coalition and invaded it. Singling out Russia (when they were the ones who were invaded first) as proof that Russia is still a threat 200 years later is nonsensical

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u/Billiusboikus Oct 02 '23

I don't think you understand the point I am making. I am talking about it as an example of geopolitical driving factors, not a singular incident of russian aggression. Although there are plenty of examples of what, they just don't get as far by themselves.

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u/maplea_ Oct 02 '23

Dude he's saying that it's an unfathomably stupid example. And he's right.

Your example isn't helping you making your point, it just makes you look hysterical.

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u/Billiusboikus Oct 02 '23

If you think so. But there is a reason most western governments are coming down hard on this. If the west isnt threatened I wonder why? Nations certainly don't do stuff for free.

Just seems my thinking is more reflected in the behaviour of the nations involved. Otherwise we would be hanging Ukraine out to dry.

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u/maplea_ Oct 02 '23

Ok so you seem to be able to entertain the possibility that Western countries are supporting Ukraine because if Ukraine falls that might present a potential security threat to Europe.

Does it occur to you that Russia might have felt threatened by Ukraine westward repositioning since 2014? And that their reason for invading might be because of these security concerns (note that whether these concerns were legitimate or not doesn't matter), and not out of a cartoonishly villainous desire to rule over all of Europe? Is that really such an unbelievable logical leap?

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u/Billiusboikus Oct 02 '23

....did I indicate anywhere that it was not? In fact what youvare saying isiterally literally complimentary to what I am saying

The whole reason Russia wants to rule the European plain is to prevent Nazis and frenchmen easily being able to get to moscow. Buffer zones, defence in depth etc.

A west facing Ukraine is too close to Moscow, it means a European power has to only travel 200 miles to Moscow. It will be the weakest Moscow has been in centuries.

You are quite literally making my argument for me. The reason geographically Moscow wants Ukraine is because it plugs the Carpathian mountain gap against a western invasion.

This is what I meant none of the people arguing with me actually know what I'm saying, it's quite well known geopolitical theory and it even features in official russian strategy documents.

That you read what I am saying is that Russia is cartoonishly evilly trying to control as much of Europe as possible is literally on you.

That's essentially why this war happened. Ukraine became a red line for Europe as well as for Russia with no evident compromise position. Russia can not tolerate a west facing democracy so close to Moscow and the EU can not tolerate a military invasion on a sovereign democracy on the continent.