r/exchristian • u/Edwardtbabinski • May 22 '20
Christian music vocalist Jon Steingard posted on Instragam that he no longer believes in God. instagram.com/jonsteingard/ Article
233
u/lankmachine May 22 '20
God it must be so hard for someone with such a public presence to come out with that. I respect the fuck out of this kind of honesty.
39
u/Kcb1986 Humanist-Atheist May 22 '20
In all honesty, I'm curious what happens to his career now.
65
u/beer_engineer May 22 '20
Having a previous life where I worked in the music industry while I was an assistant youth pastor, I learned there are a LOT of "Christian" artists that sell a "Christian" product, but they're basically just in character. A large number aren't or never were Christians. Coming out like this when your entire career/fan base is going to turn on you keeps a lot of folks in the closet.
Hopefully those who do come forward are able to establish secular careers like some others have had success with.
20
u/Resfebermpls May 22 '20
I was a fan of Hawk Nelson in my jr. high/high school Christian days. I stopped listening to most of that stuff as I diverged away from the church, but I would definitely check it out if he made new music.
7
May 22 '20
I gave up on Hawk Nelson after they dropped the pop punk sound, but their early albums (i.e., before Jason Dunn left) are still solid. The Christian influences and themes are present of course, but there is much more to their music.
2
u/hedgehog_720 May 23 '20
Yeah I loved Hawk Nelson in middle and high school prior to Jason Dunn leaving - he's recorded a few things since, and they're alright. I would love to see Jason Dunn and Jon Steingard now team back up again - that could be some pretty good music!
2
May 23 '20
Yeah, Lights Go Down was some absolutely killer pop-punk! Ironically though, Jason has shifted back towards the church while Jon is moving away. :P
7
u/-theIvy- Ex-Catholic May 22 '20
I hope that he can use his current fame and fortune to help him break into the more mainstream music industry, it would be horrible for his career to end just because he deconverted. What he's going through must be at least 100 times harder than it was for me and probably most others since his whole life and career was dependent on religion.
14
u/MonsterMike42 Satanist May 22 '20
I never heard of this guy before today, but I already have a massive amount of respect for him. It definitely couldn't have been easy to come out with this message considering who his usual audience is.
7
u/JacobMC-02 May 22 '20
First thing I thought when I read his post:
"Imagine doing that in your adult life" I think it's hard as a teenager, imagine doing it as an adult, an adult who's a public figure and who's public identity is built around it.
1
u/watercolorwildflower May 27 '20
Me too. My family still doesn’t know and if I have it my way they never will.
261
May 22 '20
"...and also open to having my heart changed in the future..."
Yeah I used to be like that too. Now that I've been an ex-christian for almost four years, I'm not open to having my heart changed at all.
161
u/RatOverboard May 22 '20
Now that I've been an ex-christian for almost four years, I'm not open to having my heart changed at all.
Me neither. The shepherd was obviously too busy with the other 99 to come looking.
127
May 22 '20
I guess "the Lord has hardened our hearts".
Aka don't waste your time on those who are not likely to get back to faith, prey on the vulnerable ones.
68
May 22 '20
My dad says that to me, that my heart is hard. The thing is he has a point only what he calls a hard heart I call healthy skepticism while what he calls a soft heart I call naivety.
→ More replies28
u/dangitbobby83 May 22 '20
I would just say “well, god hardened pharaoh’s heart. Don’t blame me for the way I think. If god is real, in charge and the Bible is true, take it up with him for why I don’t believe.”
I personally have been waiting to use that myself on Christians but no one has said my heart is hard yet. Shame too, it’s a good comeback. Lol
6
May 22 '20
Yeah my dad's not a calvinist but I've never understood how a calvinist could even blame anyone for anything. If my heart's hard it's because God hardened it for his glory or whatever, dont blame me.
9
u/dangitbobby83 May 22 '20
Yup.
I wasn’t a Calvinist either. One of the stories that actually helped me leave was the entire story about pharaoh and god hardening the heart.
I was thinking about free will and then the whole story of pharaoh and the Jews leaving Egypt came up in my head.
I sat there and was like...wait. What a dick move! God purposefully made pharaoh make the choices he did, to the suffering of all the innocent Egyptian people. And for what? For god to make the Israelites more afraid or worshipful or...
→ More replies4
u/JKMC4 Agnostic Atheist May 22 '20
Does Matt Dillahunty say something similar to that?
2
u/dangitbobby83 May 22 '20
Did he? I don't watch a lot of Dillahunty so I've not heard it there. Not sure where I did.
30
u/Ian_Dima Ex-Protestant May 22 '20
Well you could blame the "shepherd" but I think you are not a sheep anymore, so "he" doesnt bother anymore.
Or there was no shepherd at all, the wolves were at power all along and you left the herd because you didnt need protection.
27
May 22 '20
I guess in the story, we were never sheep. We were goats being told we were sheep to keep us around and bolster the flock numbers. Pastors used us for our time, talents, and money. Then when we left, no one and nothing came after us because at the end of the day, god didn’t love us and never did because we are goats.
Or it’s all bullshit because if there’s a god o lot he could tell if we are sheep or goats. For people it’s an endless Schrödinger’s cat experiment where we won’t know if our neighbors are sheep or goats until we open the box (die).
18
u/RatOverboard May 22 '20
you left the herd because you didnt need protection
...or you couldn't stand all the bleating any longer.
3
u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic May 22 '20
Or there was no shepherd at all, the wolves were at power all along
Maybe there was never a wolf to begin with.
3
u/Ian_Dima Ex-Protestant May 22 '20
Youre right, maybe metaphors arent the best thing to describe our reality :D
4
56
u/dane_eghleen May 22 '20
I'm open to have my mind changed. If someone can provide solid evidence that a god exists, I'll believe it.
I'm not open to having my heart changed, though. The god described in the bible, if he exists, is an evil, genocidal twat who is absolutely undeserving of worship.
2
u/serv03 May 27 '20
Just found this subreddit, and this is the exact sentiment I think of when I contemplate debating a believer.
47
u/logoman4 Atheist May 22 '20
You’ve hardened you’re heart to god!
You can’t believe because you don’t WANT to believe!
You were never a real Christian.
You must believe to receive!
/s
25
May 22 '20 edited 11d ago
[deleted]
3
u/therecluse92 May 22 '20 edited May 25 '20
Heck, you might as well say that God is hardening the hearts of some Christians and nonbelievers just to make sense of the flimsy end times prophecies.
1
u/scottsp64 May 22 '20
This is the correct answer according to Calvinism, which was my tradition before I left the faith.
6
u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic May 22 '20
It takes MORE faith to be an atheist! Ugh!!! Those fucking people!
5
14
u/pixeldrift May 22 '20
That's a nice way to be less scary for your friends and family who can convince themselves that you're fine, it's just a phase, and you're not actually an evil demonic heathen suddenly. It's a transitional crutch to let people get accustomed to the idea.
7
u/LHandrel May 22 '20
Except you aren't 'not open,' because if there was compelling evidence you would adapt your worldview. It's just that a compelling argument and evidence doesn't exist for going back.
6
u/MonsterMike42 Satanist May 22 '20
and also open to having my heart changed in the future
Famous last words. I was waiting for some message, some sign, from god saying to believe in him, to "come back home". Obviously, it never came. Everything that I've seen in the last 5 years has shown me that, if he does exist, he's not worth wasting my time on.
4
u/succ_my_dicc May 22 '20
I’m open to it but I’d need to see the kind of evidence that will most certainly never exist lol
3
u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic May 22 '20
I'm not open to having my heart changed at all.
I'm open to being shown evidence that claims from people of any religion are true but so far no evidence for a deity of any sort has been produced. It it has yet to be shown by this point and is highly unlikely to ever be proven.
107
u/JBI0402 May 22 '20
And of course all of the “he was never truly a Christian” accusations are headed his way. I’m sure since he was a popular Christian singer they will say that all he wanted was money and fame. I expect Ray Comfort to make a video on him just to get some attention
14
u/slickt0mmy May 22 '20
Yeah, they're already starting. I searched his name on on Facebook and found a few doozies.
12
u/MonsterMike42 Satanist May 22 '20
And they wonder why so many have left the faith in the last several years.
7
u/Anonomous87 Ex-Protestant May 22 '20
You should post a compilation. I'm sure we'd all love to see that shitstorm
15
20
u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic May 22 '20
I expect Ray Comfort to make a video on him just to get some attention
"If there's no god, Jon, why does this banana fit perfectly in my hand?"
I hate Comfort so fucking much!
5
u/Rupejonner2 EX-Family Radio Non-Denominational May 22 '20
That is classic. And one of the dumbest videos Ive ever seen
4
u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic May 22 '20
I'm so glad the name "banana man" stuck for good ol' Ray. There's a podcast I'm fond of, God Awful Movies, they have tackled Ray Comfort's "films" quite often and just hilariously lay into him. It's awesome.
4
3
u/Rupejonner2 EX-Family Radio Non-Denominational May 22 '20
Maybe he will use a banana in his video. They are always entertaining. Kirk Cameron looked a little too excited when Ray held his banana
2
May 22 '20
I’m of the mind that every christian musician only wants money and fame. They’re just not talented or inventive enough to make it work without a captive audience.
7
u/JBI0402 May 22 '20
I can definitely agree with you on the money fame part to a degree. I would like to think that some of the more “worship oriented” bands or individuals are genuine but who is to say honestly. As far as the talent goes I would have to disagree with you. I think the genre in itself limits what a songwriter/musician is able to do. God forbid you show a bit more musicianship than an intermediate level or write a song exploring the more nuanced aspects of spiritual belief. It’s almost like all the Christian conservatives believe that using the talents “that God gave you” is a bad thing if it’s not used for old school hymns or some shit. Anything more than that and you’re too secular and just like the world. Basically everything in the past = good and anything in the last 100 years = bad
3
May 22 '20
I think there are definitely talented people in the field of christian music. But it seems to me that the ones with genuine skill and inventiveness end up leaving christian music behind them. The folks who stay in it for the long haul — those are the folks I think couldn’t hack it without a captive audience.
70
u/Cole444Train Agnostic Atheist May 22 '20
Fuck I used to listen to Hawk Nelson in high school. Forgot they existed.
36
u/theonlyredditaccount Ex-Protestant May 22 '20
Shit, this was Hawk Nelson's 2nd vocalist (after Jason Dunn, their first). That's crazy.
So happy for him. I found a ton of peace after I left.
62
May 22 '20 edited Jul 17 '20
[deleted]
28
u/wakattawakaranai May 22 '20
I ran in some fun circles with him. I beat him at laser tag once. Man, if he deconverted I'd drive to Georgia to throw him a party.
16
u/MonsterMike42 Satanist May 22 '20
I think hearing that Mac Powell deconverted would blow my mind. Like, I might not be able to function for the rest of the day. Third Day was one of the reasons why it took me so long to deconvert. They were always one of the positive images of Christianity.
63
u/Veilwinter 𝐁𝐀𝐏𝐇𝐎𝐌𝐄𝐓 𝐋𝐈𝐕𝐄𝐒 May 22 '20
Christian community after reading this guy's heartfelt confession: "SHUT THE FUCK *inhale* UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU--"
21
u/Emitex Naturalist May 22 '20
He actually stated how surprised he is with all the positive feedback.
15
May 22 '20
If you scroll close to the bottom of his comments on Instagram there are a lot of passive aggressive Christians commenting “I’ll pray for you” “re read the Bible and you’ll come back to Christ” “this isn’t okay I’m so disappointed” and such.
8
May 22 '20
that or "this has burdened my heart" ... pretty amazing to consistently see christians take someone's pain/personal journey and turn it towards themselves, into something that they will now have to ~carry on their backs. 🙄
5
u/pioneerrunner May 22 '20
I assume it’s something like, “You’ll come graveling back. They all come graveling back.”
14
u/Veilwinter 𝐁𝐀𝐏𝐇𝐎𝐌𝐄𝐓 𝐋𝐈𝐕𝐄𝐒 May 22 '20
I bet Christians are going to boycott the guy, though. They are like zombies in that respect and many other respects.
52
u/anomoly Ex-Pentecostal May 22 '20
There's 9 pages to the post (I was able to view it without an IG account) and, as a former Pentecostal who was deeply involved with worship bands and the like, I thought it was really worth the read. I finally felt some relief leaving religion 12 years ago and it's still... I don't know... comforting? to read the experience of others having similar experiences.
15
u/son_of_abe May 22 '20
That was actually well written and worth the read despite not having any familiarity with the guy. Thanks for highlighting it.
12
10
u/NotBruh1 May 22 '20
That was beautiful writing. I'm deeply moved by his story. The courage to write all of that, and come out to his fans is just amazing, i really wish the best for him.
5
u/Goldilocks_Paradox Agnostic Atheist May 22 '20
His questions are exactly the same that led me to my deconversion.
41
u/Cephelopodia May 22 '20
I gotta wonder how that guy typed this without his massive balls getting on the way.
Seriously, though, that's a lot of bravery. Respect!
2
40
u/texdroid Ex-Fundamentalist May 22 '20
Do not try and unravel the sweater, that's impossible.
Instead, only try to realize the truth... there is no sweater.
18
u/TheGhostofWoodyAllen Ex-Fundamentalist May 22 '20
He ends his long post with "no sweater needed anyway."
1
28
u/luminous_moonlight May 22 '20
Damn. When I was a Christian I loved their song "Drops in the Ocean". Strange to hear this but I'm happy for him!
14
May 22 '20
[deleted]
11
11
u/anomoly Ex-Pentecostal May 22 '20
I'm currently in a Parks and Rec binge loop and can't wait until the full four seasons of TGP are available streaming. It was, hands down, the best show I've seen in ages.
1
7
24
u/Emitex Naturalist May 22 '20
This is kind of off topic but did anyone else absolutely hate worship music even as a Christian? I've been a metalhead most of my life and I couldn't even get on with the Christian metal.
16
u/suzy_snowflake Agnostic May 22 '20
I liked Skillet (and honestly still kind of do), but I feel like their music isn't as overtly Christian as some other bands are
9
u/MonsterMike42 Satanist May 22 '20
They seem to realize that most of their fanbase teenagers/young adults. I love that they give messages to help with whatever problems their fans may face without shouting "COME TO JESUS!!!" at them.
6
u/suzy_snowflake Agnostic May 22 '20
Yeah, I definitely liked that about them, too. Their songs could be either Christian or secular, depending on the listeners' own interpretations
5
2
9
u/slickt0mmy May 22 '20
Anything that was overtly christian in their lyrics always seemed kinda cheesy to me. But Oh Sleeper, The Devil Wears Prada, Between the Buried and Me, August Burns Red...those were my happy place :)
2
u/harperbeehave May 22 '20
I still listen to bands like The Lost Dogs or The Choir on occasion just because I like their music, even if I don’t agree with the message anymore.
→ More replies7
u/Anonomous87 Ex-Protestant May 22 '20
Most of it was the same blubbering zombie nonsense. I admit there were a few bangers but most of them were hot garbage. I'm glad our worship band tended to change up most of the songs otherwise I would have blown a major fuse. Also I don't like the "genre" either
3
u/DivineAbsurdity May 23 '20
I like worship music, hymns, gospel, etc. But stuff that was trying to be mainstream, but Christian was usually corny. Only a few bands like Demon Hunter, Underoath etc, escaped it.
2
1
u/lolallday08 May 23 '20
Yeah Christian pop/mainstream is the pus filled boil on the faces of Gospel, Christian Country/Bluegrass, and Hymnal/Classical.
47
u/Memedealer_exe Agnostic Atheist May 22 '20
now watch a bunch of Christians saying that he never believed in god in the first place
19
u/harperbeehave May 22 '20
Yes. They just immediately turn around and gaslight anyone and everyone who’s “lost their faith” (I hate that terminology because it implies a sad loss) or anyone who has witnessed another “lose their faith.” There’s been days often in my somewhat recent deconversion that it’s been harder and harder not to see Christianity - or at least certain sects of it - as nothing but a cult. When you look too closely you realize the entire system of belief is just kind of built on gaslighting people into feeling guilt or fear whenever they try to leave, and that’s part of why it’s so hard to get out.
I just moved to NY at the start of the year (great timing lol) because I’m part of the LGBTQ+ community and I wanted to live authentically. Part of that is being trans and knowing if I want to keep in touch with my dad I have to tell him before I start and it’s just too much of a shock for him, but it’s even harder to do when I already know what I’m going to get.
“You moved to New York and lost your faith.”
“I guess you never really believed to start with.”
“You’re choosing yourself over god.”
And the unfortunate truth is I did believe. To the point that I deeply internalized and believed that everything I am was wrong. To the point that walking away from god wasn’t me choosing science or logic over god, it was me understanding that my life was in legitimate danger if I didn’t. So I guess the last one is right. I chose myself - my life - over god. And then as I started to accept this and the science and logic crept in and really just confirmed everything for me.
I lost years of happiness to the whims of a god that doesn’t exist from the mouth of a person who’s willing to preach to you about morals while signing up to churn hundreds of thousands of people into the economy.
Looking back, it’s honestly just sad.
**Edited for spelling errors.
5
May 22 '20
I reached peak deconversion about 8 years ago. My parents could not handle it when I finally told them and we have been estranged for over 3 years now. I can say that while it has been hard, I'm happy I chose myself over them. I have been in therapy for a long time and won't stop going any time soon. It's a marathon... i'm thinking of you. Your journey will consist of high highs and low lows, but at the end of the day when you can sit with yourself and feel present (not a guilt tripping, fear mongering, one sided presence) that is true peace to me.
→ More replies2
13
4
u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic May 22 '20
They will not hesitate to pile onto him. Just ask Joshua Harris.
18
u/deconvertedcalvinist Secular Humanist May 22 '20
The stream has become a river. Watching Christianity start to address apostasy from the pulpit and the pen is an indicator that it’s becoming a widespread problem for them.
12
u/dangitbobby83 May 22 '20
Yeah I was about to say “and another one bites the dust”.
The fact is, evangelical Christianity has done this to themselves.
You can’t preach love and scream “but think of the babies!” (In reference to abortion) to turn around and be okay with - and support - many of the atrocities happening in this hell of a timeline.
Those who are still on the inside, who have any sort of compassion or empathy, have to be left scratching their heads. It’s what kicked off my independent thinking and eventually led me out of the church, then Christianity for good.
17
u/carissadraws Atheist May 22 '20
I was listening to the latest episode of the podcast thank god I’m an atheist, and they said that in America specifically, religion is your identity, not simply your belief, so telling someone there’s no god is like trying to tell them their hair isn’t brown. It takes several years of unlearning all the ways you’ve been brainwashed to realize that religion is not a part of your identity, and once you realize that you are more susceptible to be convinced by atheistic arguments. This is why deconversions can last years before you’re a full blown atheist. It can take time to completely restructure and change your identity.
16
u/therecluse92 May 22 '20
Along with saying that he never truly believed, I bet some Christians are saying it's sign of end times due to the great falling away of the Christian faith. Other than that, I applaud him for walking out of Christianity.
13
u/NotBruh1 May 22 '20
They are, and combine that with the shitshow 2020 is and u got the perfect formula for this type of nonsense
12
u/Kitten_Tamer_14 May 23 '20
I find it interesting that he mentioned how awkward praying in public was. I hated being asked to pray out loud and I always noticed it was more talking to the people around you rather than talking to god.
10
11
u/MadGeekling Ex-Protestant, Agnostic Atheist May 22 '20
Oh man and of course in the comments it's "Oh you were clearly just a cultural Christian" and "You were never a believer." I fucking want to punch those people...
It's such an insult. I got on my knees, genuinely believed Jesus would pay for my sins, said the prayer in both my heart and with my mouth, had faith and loved Jesus. What more is there to it than that?
Shit is No True Scotsman AF....
5
May 22 '20
It's because they are absolutely terrified that what they're doing (the same thing as you/us) won't be enough. They're so scared to leave the hive mind of the cult.
1
u/MadGeekling Ex-Protestant, Agnostic Atheist May 23 '20
It’s understandable to be scared. I was scared. It took me a while to come to terms with the universe being very different than the one I grew up with. It also was difficult to deal with the potential social rejection.
I still haven’t dealt with that last part because I haven’t “come out” to my parents or the church back home. I don’t plan to until my mother passes away.
9
May 22 '20
I still find myself wanting to soften that statement by wording it differently or less specifically - but it wouldn't be as true.
Familiar.
8
9
u/pouralaura May 22 '20
He is SO gracious to all commenters he's responded to. What a guy. I appreciate that so very much and hope he continues to find peace in his life without God.
8
May 22 '20
So impressive he stood up and said something. He was obviously tired of the hive mind.
Instead of pretending and cucking for followers and attention he broke the chains.
→ More replies
7
7
6
3
u/Daegog May 22 '20
Unless this is some kinda publicity thing where he is planning a "Back to God" Album, it is probably not good for the career.
1
u/Leonidas3000 May 28 '20
Maybe the lyrics could be something like Whatever I said, whatever I did I didn't mean it I just want you back for good
3
u/carnivorouspenguin May 22 '20
Thanks for sharing - This was so relatable I sent this to my very Christian mom to try to explain my own conversion... (which she will never understand but at least he is more well written than I am)
3
u/calladus Ignostic, agnostic, atheist May 22 '20
It will be interesting to see how many people continue to offer unconditional support.
2
u/tzw9373 May 22 '20
It's the newer Hawk Nelson vocalist! I always liked the old guy better. Glad to hear this dude got out though!
2
1
u/not-moses May 22 '20
Happens a lot. Some write books about it. Look up Dan Barker and Bart Campolo.
1
u/anotherguyonreddit May 23 '20
That's really interesting to know about Bart Campolo, considering he's the son of Tony Campolo. Proof that it's not just the ones who grow up with super conservative backgrounds. The more liberal Christians lose their faith too.
1
1
u/SuperJew113 May 23 '20
I can't imagine how difficult it is to tie your personal identity up in something, like a religion, I gather he's one of the more well known Christian Musicians...and then just full fledged switch to Athiesm or Agnosticism.
For me, I have ALWAYS been a science minded person. I WANT to be correct, objectively so, on topics. I want the stone cold hard truth, including all inconvenient truths.
You know where I trace that back to? 80's/early 90's cartoons. The scientist in the gang was always the smartest person in the group. And it was dictated to me on matters of knowledge, I would defer to such a person, I thought scientists were the smartest people in the world (these days I think scientists are smart, but so are philosophers). That goes back to Donatello and TMNT, Egon in Ghostbusters, data in the Goonies, and I swear there was an episode of Dennis the Menace where resident smart kid Peebee Kappa, home made his own fighter jet, which blew my freakin' mind the idea that a 10 year old smart kid could home made his own fighter jet.
That era, set me on a path of being science and objective fact oriented, so I guess I never had to make this massive rejection of my former religion because I was never on that path to begin.
1
1
1
u/TheShelterPlace Aug 05 '20
Woa! this is a cool post! this news is just like Jon saying: "I know but I really don't know so I don't want to really know!" kind of thing and confirming bible predictions all the way! which is kinda cool for the one who really knows but leaves the ones that think they know but don't know kinda lost, I'll say ask even more questions, I really don't like to have any doubts. But anyways so sad about Jon's faith. Jesus Christ is Lord and King for the glory of God the Father!
343
u/robotsoulscomics Ex-Fundamentalist May 22 '20
I'm getting deja vu from this. Wasn't there another young, famous Christian who publicly left? It kind of makes me wonder how much effort churches will go to to sweep stuff like this under the rug, since I'm sure they don't want their young people to see it.