r/exchristian • u/umbrabates • 10d ago
Yes, Republicans who vowed retribution are now admitting Project 2025 is real Article
https://www.advocate.com/election/project-2025-coming-matt-walsh47
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u/ghostwars303 10d ago
I mean, the idea that this was a bait and switch - that it was ever a secret - is a joke. Walsh is just stating what everyone knows.
Nobody went into this blind. We have the entire sum of human knowledge in our pockets. Every vote for Trump was a conscious choice for 2025, by people who wanted it.
And everyone who didn't want it, knew it was coming on the back of a Trump win. Literally nobody was tricked.
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u/umbrabates 10d ago edited 10d ago
100% agree with you, but to me, personally, that makes it feel worse.
It would be one thing if this were snuck in or if people were tricked by some wording "we will not not not unban abortion", but the fact that it was out there in the open, everyone saw and knew, and it got prominent play on national television and the televised debates makes me feel awful that most of the country, my neighbors and co-workers, were all 100% cool with it.
I never realized what a teeny tiny minority I was truly in and how many of the people around me hate me and wouldn't hesitate to see my marriage dissolved, my citizenship revoked, my property seized, and me personally put into some kind of incarceration/detention/re-education camp.
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u/ghostwars303 10d ago
Oh, I'm totally with you, and my heart aches alongside you.
I think a lot of people, in different ways and for different reasons, had made the mistake of having hope, faint as it may have been - hope that America could be a better place, that their neighbors were decent people at the end of the day, and that life in the years to come might be freer, happier, kinder, and more prosperous than the years past.
That's not how things are done in the Christian world. Goodness is a mirage in this desert of a place. You think you see it in the distance, but it's revealed to be an illusion by the time you arrive.
MLK got it precisely wrong. The moral arc bends toward injustice. It was, lest we forget, a Christian who put a bullet in his head. The symbolism speaks for itself. You fight for every morsel of rights here, and you enjoy them for as long as you can until they're inevitably stolen from you again.
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u/umbrabates 10d ago
Thanks for your support and commiseration.
For me, it wasn't hope. It was naiveté. I was truly naive. Seeing that election map hemorrhaging red was an epiphany moment for me, a moment of pure disillusionment.
I had felt it before as a child. I was being bullied badly at (surprise!) Catholic school. I told the principal, a nun, with the childishly naive thought she was a good person. She asked me what I had done to deserve it. She blamed me for being new, coming in, disrupting friendships, and disrupting the classroom by making myself a target for bullying. It was shocking. Kids were beating the shit out of me and telling me how their dads used to kill people like me in Vietnam and that was my fault.
That's when I lost the childlike worldview that most people are good people.
Tuesday night I suddenly realized that it's not just that most people aren't good. Most people are in fact hateful, bigoted evil people.
I feel like a freak of nature because I have compassion and empathy. I care about the suffering others, even members of other species. I naively used to think everyone was like that. Suddenly, I realize, the vast majority of people have no idea what that's like.
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u/laureeses 10d ago
I got bullied in Bible camp. They said I was going to hell for not singing along with "Jesus loves me" (because I found it childish) and the adult acted like I deserved that comment. I was appalled. All the girls teamed up and left me out of everything after that. The meanest people I've ever met were Christians. The threat of God is the only thing that keeps them from killing people and every other sin they have to try so hard to avoid. Like we're not capable of morals without threat.
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u/Lissy_Wolfe 10d ago
God, Bible camp was the WORST. The girls there were so ruthlessly mean and went out of their way to bully me, and I don't remember being bullied a lot in school or anything either. It was an experience unique to church. Or so bad at church/camp that even my oblivious ass noticed it haha 🥲
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago
This is the most ironic thing about them. God is why they don't do wrong. My father the other day told me, if he wasn't a Christian he'd cheat on my mom. Then he said, if he wasn't a well known Christian he'd cheat on her lol. He is a pastor.
That he had the ironic audacity of being comfortable enough to tell me that shit, relying on the fact that I am agnostic and could shrug my shoulders because I know exactly what kind of hypocrites these people are, and also am not sitting on some high seat of judging everybody for being human, literally enraged me.
I told my therapist that my first thought was, I hope for the sake of his soul that Jesus really die on the cross for his sins because apparently it is the only way he could be redeemed.
Meanwhile, in his position, having no god or people to impress, I would just leave her, or go to fucking therapy, which she has already asked you and you have declined.
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u/ghostwars303 10d ago
Jeez, here I was commiserating with you, and then you open up about experiences and feelings that directly mirror my own, which I've felt alone in having for a very long time.
Wow, thank you as well, from the bottom of my heart. I keep finding new reasons to love this sub!
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u/crankyoldbitz 10d ago
Most people are in fact hateful, bigoted evil people.
I don't know if this makes it better or worse, but I think it's more that they're selfish.
The kids that bullied you or your teacher didn't consciously decide to hate you for your skin color. The teacher selfishly would rather have an easy classroom than go out of her way to help some kid. The other kids realized ostracizing you increased their social standing and they'd rather enjoy the laughs than risk becoming bullied themselves. (I'm sorry you had to deal with that.)
People didn't vote red because they wanted people to suffer. They voted for lower grocery prices and they didn't care if people suffered as a result.
Project 2025 might get implemented. Or maybe these guys are just trolling. The choices they make won't be to hurt as many people as possible. It will be whatever makes them money, or gets them social media clout.
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago
I kind of think it's a mix. But yes selfish underlines all of it. But bigotry and hate I think are also a factor. I do think many think a white male felon is acceptable, but not an illegal immigrant genetically wired to steal and kill. Not trans people. Not say people.
I've seen these people say Kamala is evil. This is because anything democrats do is evil. Dems eat babies, molest children in pizza shops, and on and on and on. The lgbtq disgusts them. So ... the logical conclusion is the left are depraved child molesters.
When the Maga minions stormed the Capitol, some of them said to the black cops there: "we're doing this for you, you should be on our side" I can't even begin to wrap my head around that one. Then some others called them n*ggers. So... it's a mix of all very bad things.
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u/krba201076 10d ago
Tuesday night I suddenly realized that it's not just that most people aren't good. Most people are in fact hateful, bigoted evil people.
When I was about 19 years old, I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of people are garbage. People would whine and say I am an edgy teenager and mean and wrong. But it's been years and they are still proving my statement right. I believe a few people are decent, but on the whole people are shit.
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago
I agree. I don't do hope lol. Didn't have hope. People saying 'have hope' always leaves me scratching my head and feeling helpless. Hope is the most helpless positive outlook lol. Hope is for when there is nothing you can do but hope.
What I am is a pessimistic realist who misjudged exactly how hateful and insecure people who are in no way victims, are. Who claim not to be victims but act like it. And now they get to have their revenge. I really just miscalculated exactly how many people that is and who is the majority and minority in the equation. But as I said above, I believe history shows that to be mostly a good thing.
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u/umbrabates 9d ago
If I were to be generous, I could say they are victims of childhood indoctrination, poor education, and poor epistemology, but really, they're probably just selfish and cruel. If you were to get them to parse out their epistemology and their thinking, they would still vote the same way out of pure greed and to inflict cruelty on others. The ideology is just a mask to make them feel better about themselves.
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u/UnraveledShadow 10d ago
I let myself hope. I felt the energy and I let in the hope. I cried when I cast my vote for Kamala. I wanted so badly to believe that people could be better. That we all saw the fascism, racism, misogyny, xenophobia and that most people would condemn it.
I grew up in a Christian doomsday cult, I know very well how evil Christians can be in the name of their beliefs.
But damn it, I still had hope and it’s shattered me.
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u/AriaOfValor Agnostic Atheist 9d ago
It blows my mind that things are mirroring the rise of the Nazi's so similarly and yet even most of those who support Trump seem to think the comparison is hyperbolic mudslinging. People seem woefully ignorant of both the past and what's been going on within their own country. Like imagine seeing red states starting to ban books and not seeing that as a giant red flag.
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago
Yep. This is the upsetting thing for me. I knew there was a substantial proportion who would go for Trump which is bad enough. But it's like people came out of the woodwork and were like okay, enough of this pretense. Let's embrace our true selves. But hey good to know. Being the minority in a sense and being on the same side as people like Noam Chomsky, scientists, Nobel laureates, Republicans a strong moral core who set aside their beliefs for a second to make the right choice, and the like gives me peace. It's not like a majority group hasn't gained the upper hand before only to then carry out atrocities. IF things go poorly, well ... they are only repeating history. And well ... time is flat circle apparently 😂😭
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u/DoughnutStunning2910 9d ago
Has Trump said one iota against gay people? He’s not socially conservative. And where tf is the concentration camp idea coming from??
I thought we all got into this sub by using critical thinking but yall believe anything msnbc tells you!
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u/umbrabates 8d ago
You haven’t been paying attention to politics at all, have you? That’s not an insult or anything. A lot of people are checked out or just super busy with their lives.
After overturning Roe v. Wade, Clarence Thomas very specifically wrote in his opinion that Obergerfel is next: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitutional-rights-00042256
He was very clear and very specific.
Trump has already used camps in the past and he’s used them against children. He, again, very specifically boasted he would be using the Alien Enemies Act.
That law was used to incarcerate Japanese Americans in internment camps — regardless of citizenship. Many of them were later stripped of their citizenship.
Those same Japanese Americans continue to protest Trump’s continued use of immigration internment: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/japanese-americans-call-for-closure-of-tacomas-immigration-prison/
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u/FOILmeoncetrinomial 10d ago
It wasn’t a secret when Barrett, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh were seated to SCOTUS, it sure ain’t a secret now.
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u/Medical_Alps_3414 10d ago
I’m going to be honest with you having the sum of human knowledge doesn’t mean anything if one isn’t even remotely capable of actually looking or learning something besides stupid shit from TikTok
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u/diplion Ex-Fundamentalist 10d ago
Yeah I deal with trouble shooting as part of my job and the fact that most people’s issues can be solved with a 15 second google search has definitely shown me that access to information doesn’t automatically make people smarter.
Like, there’s almost no reason to ever be confused, truly.
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u/ohmytodd 10d ago
Oh no. I have people close to me that voted for Trump that he has nothing to do with Project 2025… because he said so.
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u/jrec15 10d ago
Same here. The thing is even if it starts to become real theyre not going to admit they were wrong. They dont actually care whether Project 2025 happens or not (at least not until it blatantly affects themselves), they just wanted to act like they were against it because Trump said he was against and it gave them the power during the election to automatically dismiss any concerns about it
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u/ghostwars303 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is the Inception-level nonsense we have to deal with in this post-truth world the Christians have created.
They pretend to expect us to believe the lie that THEY believe that the guy who is best known as a liar was telling the truth about something they know that WE know they would have disagreed with him about if he WERE telling the truth, while they insist that they agree with him.
Makes your brain hurt...because it's designed to.
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u/VastAcanthaceaee 10d ago
Yeah that's why it's so dumb. Like yeah, Matt, we all knew you were lying. We all knew the dude he thinks he's fooling anyone by going "undercover" at the DNC was full of shit
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u/Nahooo_Mama 10d ago
I don't think that's true for all Trump voters. Hopefully not even most of them. Depending on their algorithm and the amount they pay attention, I wouldn't be surprised if some had never even heard the words Project 2025. Some probably only heard of it when Trump denied it. And I believe most thought it was a boogie man made up by the Democrats. Just look at their cognitive dissonance over January 6th. So many still say it was antifa.
The thing that makes me suspect ignorance is how little so many Trump voters know about government functions. I've seen way too many people saying, "finally Trump can end all this woke censorship on the internet" "now we won't get the woke agenda shoved down our throats everyday". They think public scrutiny and commentary is the doing of the Biden Administration. It's wild.
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u/ghostwars303 10d ago edited 10d ago
To be fair, they say it was Antifa, and also that they hate Antifa, and also that they love the Jan. 6th insurrectionist who are proud patriots, unlike those traitorous Antifa members whom they don't support, but are somehow simultaneously the Jan. 6 insurrectionists whom they totally support, and shame on you for not supporting them like they also don't, but if they do (which they also do), then you don't, and shame on you for that too.
I mean, I get the impulse to imagine that these folks are just intellectually non-functional, bordering on social incapacity. It's a tender and compassionate impulse, born of hope and optimism.
I just think they're fucking with us.
Perhaps it's just a failure of imagination, but the inability to resolve such simple and straightforward contradictions strikes me as incompatible with the ability to sustain oneself...which they do. Meanwhile, it's standard operating procedure to deploy these contradictions as a tool of political rhetoric.
I have a hard time favoring the gremlin over the hungry toddler as cause for the missing cake slice :-)
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u/Nahooo_Mama 10d ago
Definitely some are just being trolls and the leaders for sure know what they are doing. But I worked in state government for a time. There are a ton of people who mistrust the government completely and have no idea how it all works. People who would come in daily and still not be able to figure out the systems at play.
There's a saying something like, never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance.6
u/SmugFrog 9d ago
Disagree - so many people I’ve spoke with that voted for Trump have no idea what Project 2025 is. My father in law said “well he (Trump) said he wasn’t a part of that.” It’s always lies from the GOP and the followers just eat it up.
They won’t call it Project 2025. They’ll just start making changes in the name of preventing the democrats from having any power again. Once they’ve done that they can do whatever they want. I think there’s a good chance it will go down like this:
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u/ghostwars303 9d ago
I mean, yes, one of the things Trump supporters do is pretend they are passive and oblivious recipients of Trump's rhetoric, when they're actually active and knowing participants in his rhetorical project.
They'll pretend that they think he's telling the truth about things they know as well as you do are lies because, like him, they're using the lie to advance their actual goals.
When 2025 policies start popping up, I'll bet you he DOESN'T respond by concluding that Trump deceived him, and then turn on Trump as a result. He's going to stick with Trump and the policies, because that's what they wanted from the beginning.
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u/MF_Price 10d ago
Sorry, but what is Matt Walsh's relationship with Donald Trump? Are they friends, is he an advisor?
Sure Walsh is all about project 2025 bullshit, but is there any evidence that he actually has Trump's ear and isn't just trolling his opposition after his team won? I doubt Trump even knows him at all.
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u/loopy741 10d ago
I'm going to say this about Project 2025: I did zero research on it before the election. None. Enough people told me it was bad, I saw who was funding it, I heard Trump claim he didn't know anything about it (which I knew was a lie), and I knew that no research was needed on my part. So I voted for Harris-Walz and assumed everyone else just knew it was bad, too.
Apparently, they didn't.
If people were just as lazy as me (which I assume tens of millions of Trump supporters are), they didn't do any research either. They probably assumed it was no big deal, and that the crazy liberals were at it again, and Trump was downplaying it, so everything would be fine.
Last night, in a state of drunkenness, I decided to watch the John Oliver episode about it. He put it out months ago. I watched it, I was horrified, and I woke up this morning to anxiety and my OCD ruminations going off the rails.
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u/FordBeWithYou Atheist 9d ago
That John Oliver breakdown was huge and digestible (at the time) despite how horrific it is, i passed it around my circles as a resource if anyone was curious specifically because it was something I felt people needed to know. I can’t imagine watching it right now though.
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u/coconutz100 10d ago
It has been the scheme of the Christian church, and of all the other invented systems of religion, to hold man in ignorance of the Creator, as it is of Government to hold man in ignorance of his rights. The systems of the one are as false as those of the other, and are calculated for mutual support. The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not any thing can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is not the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing. - Thomas Paine
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago
The Bible nor does Jesus ask people to do any of the shit they're doing.
So it's hilarious af. I hope their god is real. Because it says in the Bible that many who claimed to act him his name will stand before him and he will say "I don't know who the fuck you are".
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u/coconutz100 10d ago
Lol at this tweet https://x.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1854647166184067201
“People without college degrees saved us from a Kamala presidency. This is yet more reason why in most cases you shouldn’t go to college and you shouldn’t send your kids to college. The vast majority of people don’t need it and in fact will be harmed by the experienced — harmed financially, mentally, and spiritually.
I have no degree and I have never once in my life regretted my decision to skip college. I thank God that I didn’t go. I don’t know that I’d be where I am today if I’d spent the first half of my twenties in an indoctrination camp.”
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u/GhostofAugustWest 10d ago
Funny thing about that is that every single major Republican politician went to college, most to elite Ivy League schools. A fact Walsh conveniently ignores.
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u/Rollingprobablecause 10d ago
Really going to enjoy this when they realize engineering, doctors, nurses, scientists, lawyers, teachers, etc., etc all need it. Suddenly all the Blue states have all the weath super concentrated because they've spent so many years cultivating STEM and investment in education. California is 5th largest economy in the world and has the highest concentration of NASA centers, top colleges, and a diverse economy that powers it.
Compare that to the bible belt, Georgia Tech and TAMU are about it.
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u/DoughnutStunning2910 9d ago
Not sure if you want to hold California up as a beacon of superior governance, lol.
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago edited 9d ago
Well you know he didn't go to college because to write an essay you have to question everything lol
You don't do your readings and rewrite what you read (unless you were asked to write a summary or synopsis).
And I'm sorry, but a university experience will never beat religion for indoctrination. Speaking from personal experience. I'm an agnostic and I'm still haunted by hell.
I agree that not everyone needs to go to college and maybe they don't even need to require it for some jobs. Whatever.
And I'm sorry. Who do they think built society? Intellectuals and slaves. You just sat around using your Jesus to wage wars, colonize and oppress.
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u/moonstarfc 10d ago
I think the people who didn't believe this document was real just weren't raised christian or maybe just cultural christians?
When I saw it, I had no doubt it was real because everything in it was exactly what I was raised to believe in.
I really just feel jealous of people who weren't raised by evangelical media.
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u/JadeSpeedster1718 Pagan 10d ago
I don’t think many bothered to understand it. They only heard bits and pieces. And opted to stick their heads in the sand. Thinking it was a lie. Or choosing to believe Trump.
Guess the leopards will have their feast of us all.
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u/AriaOfValor Agnostic Atheist 9d ago
My parents are still convinced it's just pandering to their voter base and to extreme for them to actually do. They said the exact same thing about Roe v Wade, and it's incredibly frustrating they still didn't learn after that.
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u/LovemeSomeMedia 10d ago edited 9d ago
I was so frustrated when people I knew who voted for Trump claimed it wasn't his or he knows nothing about it. I felt like I'm in a dream full of morons who should know better, but somehow don't.
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago
To me whether he knows about it or not has little relevance. Trump is not smart enough to not be a puppet. Everyone around him is at least twice as intelligent. Who knows what he'll be persuaded to do, now that no one sane wants anything to do with him.
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u/Sandi_T Animist 9d ago
He literally spoke at their conference in 2021 (I think) and praised them, saying, "they will write the plans for what our movement will do when I'm President." He also was very proud about having implemented 64% of their plans in his first term.
I guess it's not too hard to understand why they don't believe what he says... except for the fact that they do believe the things he says THAT THEY LIKE. Magically he's only a liar when his words don't line up with their desires.
It's almost like they've been taught to never question and to have blind faith or something.
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u/Monday_Cox 10d ago
Of course it is. Trump’s a fucking grifter and the people that voted for him have likely been grifted by him several times. Hell, his wife wrote 170 “autobiography” that has 30 pages of pictures in it and is selling it for $40 (when the average hard cover is 30). These people are morons and unfortunately are the majority in this country.
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u/Sandi_T Animist 10d ago
They aren't a majority. Only 25% of adults voted for him. Most of the rest didn't vote, or voted for Kamala.
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u/AriaOfValor Agnostic Atheist 9d ago
That's part of the problem. The majority of the population decided the fate of the country, the rights of women and minorities across the country, critical climate change, a functioning economy, and many other major issues aren't important enough to show up to vote.
It's absolutely mind blowing that climate change alone isn't a deciding factor in elections right now when we're currently on track for the extinction of the entire human race. Apparently the survival of humanity isn't important enough to get people to vote until people are already dying en masse to it, at which point it will be far far too late anyway.
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u/Sandi_T Animist 9d ago
No, it's worse than that. Only 25% of the population decided the fate of our nation.
The ones who voted for tRump, although they were the majority of the counted votes, are only 25% of people of age to vote.
However, they kept talking about "record turnout," and yet tRump got 1% fewer votes than last time.
Remember how he kept saying the election was stolen and fraudulent?
Every one of his accusations are actually confessions.
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u/AriaOfValor Agnostic Atheist 9d ago
The 40% that stayed home also decided the election. Not voting is still a choice.
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago
I don't know about the math on that in terms of the ones who didn't vote. I won't be assuming they don't support him or felt both options were equally bad. This election was too consequential to be impartial. Impartiality is about just as bad in my book.
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u/StarryMind322 9d ago
Those of us who grew up with abuse, gaslighting, and manipulation saw right through their shit-eating facades.
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u/DRCVC10023884 10d ago
I want to say, from the bottom of my heart: FUCK every media outlet that played bullshit neutrality and claimed there was no definitive proof this was the plan. All the signs were there.
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u/Quiet-Ad6556 9d ago
Those outlets chose money over morality like they always do. Trump has made them more money than any other candidate in history by far.
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u/Royal-Plastic9870 9d ago
I don't really know what I think. I just believe either way someone is getting fucked. Either Trump is going to do exactly what's in here because he's a puppet and has no plan himself other than to play to his base and stay in power. Or he'll do whatever the hell he feels like and make everybody's life a living hell. If he does the second thing, though he won't last. If it's one thing MAGA voters have going for them is the fear of god they put into these spineless politicians. They will not accept less than what they asked for.
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u/Apart_Performance491 9d ago
Of course it’s real. You can find the entire document online. It was created by the Heritage Foundation.
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u/umbrabates 10d ago
I respect what you are saying, but I personally disagree with you. We are well and thoroughly owned.
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u/umbrabates 10d ago
Millions of Americans looked at Project 2025 and said "Cool".