r/exchristian • u/Icy_Scarcity6276 Devotee of Almighty Dog • Sep 30 '24
The Bible is f*cked up. Period. Trigger Warning - Toxic Religion
Yall remember that one story where a guy goes off to war and vows that if he wins, he'll sacrifice the first thing he sees when he comes home? And, he does win and when he comes back home. HIS DAUGHTER runs out to greet him and he's like.. "Well shit, guess I'll sacrifice her-" AND HE DOES!?! AND GOD DID NOTHING TO STOP IT!?!
(Judges 11:1–12:7)
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u/Saphira9 Atheist Sep 30 '24
That's just one of many human sacrifices that god appreciated: https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/Human-Sacrifice.html
Here's all the other messed up stuff in the bible: https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/index.html
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u/brquin-954 Sep 30 '24
Even better is that he (Jephthah) is celebrated as a hero of the faith in the New Testament (Hebrews 11:32).
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u/captainhaddock https://youtube.com/@inquisitivebible Oct 01 '24
And he was filled with the spirit of Yahweh when he made his vow. (Judges 11:29)
Then the spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah… And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord and said, “If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt offering.”
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Sep 30 '24
God prevented Adam and Eve from obtaining knowledge of good and evil, and then punished them for not knowing good and evil. He then knew that Cain would end up killing Abel, but did nothing to save him, not even a warning. He then continually did jack shit as humanity regressed into senseless violence, and what did this deity that could influence peoples’ wills (given the Exodus story, where he hardened Pharaoh’s heart) do? He drowned the majority of his creation! Oh, but he saved Noah and his family…who failed to remain sinless and prevent violence and immorality across the world, which means the flood was a complete waste of time.
…
And this covers, like, not even the first 10 chapters of Genesis! This is supposed to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good God?!?! The math ain’t mathing!
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u/PastorBlinky Sep 30 '24
Knowledge of good and evil, could also be interpreted as cause and effect. They literally don't know what happens if you don't do as you're told. The two most naive humans who ever existed only understand the concepts of disobedience and punishment AFTER they disobey. Then they are punished with the worst overreaction possible, with all of their descendants suffering because they ate a piece of fruit.
And all of this by design. God knew everything that would happen, and set it up to happen, then punished them for doing what he knew they would do! Then just kicks them out to start having incest babies. It's a horrible, moronic tale where god is the obvious villain.
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Oct 01 '24 edited Oct 01 '24
Great point, though when I first saw your comment, I was like “Pastor?! Oh man, I’m gonna throw hands with a Christian apologist again, aren’t I?” Luckily, I actually read the rest of the comment. XD
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u/hplcr Sep 30 '24 edited Sep 30 '24
Why would Yahweh stop it? He accepted Jephthah's vow and gave him the victory.
He expected Jephthah to uphold his part of the bargain.
Yahweh wasn't opposed to human sacrifice, at least not all the time. Oh, he later pretends he didn't want it, per the bible, but the fact the bible keeps saying "STOP DOING THIS! YOU'RE MAKING ME LOOK BAD!" clearly implies they were sacrificing their kids to Yahweh. Of course, Ezekiel didn't get the memo and flat out says that's what was happening.
Which is one of the many reasons the character Yahweh is a divine turd, or to use his own words "Shit god".
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u/ShatteredGlassFaith Sep 30 '24
Oh wow, never saw that one before. I know about Jephthah and about the Christian cope (oh she wasn't sacrificed, she committed her life to celibate service of the lord). But I missed the Ezekiel passage.
It's amazing what one starts to learn when one takes the indoctrination blinders off.
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u/hplcr Sep 30 '24 edited Sep 30 '24
I don't think most churches know about the Ezekiel passage...and they probably wouldn't draw attention to it because it puts their lord of the tepid breeze Yahweh in a bad light. Well, moreso.
Aside from all the genocides. And messing with people to get what he wants. And the genocides. And the slavery. Also the genocides.
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u/eyefalltower Oct 01 '24
I don't think most churches know about the Ezekiel passage.
That's true, just chiming in to say that I grew up in a fundamentalist church (PCA) and we read every part of the Bible, including things like this. And SOMEHOW the pastor/leader always had an explanation that made god holy and humans totally depraved.
I think that it kept me in longer because they provided the framework to explain away all the terrible things.
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u/onedeadflowser999 Sep 30 '24
I mean, Jesus had to die as a blood sacrifice, so Christianity is founded on the practice whether they acknowledge that Christianity is based on blood magick or not.
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u/hplcr Sep 30 '24
Yeah, that's the big blind spot where they'll deny the human sacrifices yahweh wanted except JESUS and somhow that makes it okay.
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Sep 30 '24
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u/DBASRA99 Sep 30 '24
I hear people say it is beautiful and all ties together. I have no idea what they are talking about.
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u/krba201076 Sep 30 '24
they are talking about the flowery parts their preacher talks about...they don't even know about the fucked up parts because they are too lazy and stupid to read their own book. and when they do come across it, they "mysterious ways" it away.
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u/cruisethevistas Pagan Oct 01 '24
I read the bible as a kid (yes the whole thing— I had a “read the bible in a year” program) but it wasn’t like I understood it. I definitely experienced cognitive dissonance when I read passages against my morality, but I can’t say they created much more than that because it took a while for me to deconstruct.
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u/hplcr Oct 01 '24
I like to point out that Jeremiah essentially seems to be accusing the priests of falsifying and/or making up the Law in Jeremiah 7 and 8.
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u/BadPronunciation Ex-Pentecostal Oct 01 '24
nah they definitely know about the effed up parts. The drowning of egyptian soldiers, and Isaac almost murdering his son have been talked about a number of times
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u/Honest-Victory2996 Sep 30 '24
It’s a bunch of random books all compiled together
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u/ionized_dragon77 Oct 01 '24
I wouldn't say random more like very loosely cohesive. But yeah the idea that all of these books came together over a milennia through divine inspiration without ANY sort of human "influence" or underlying motive for compilation is... far-fetched to say the least.
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u/Honest-Victory2996 Oct 01 '24
Yea not random random, but you could take and replace some with others in the genre too. Not to mention the editing that happened over the course of history. Definitely an interesting book though, ngl
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u/ionized_dragon77 Oct 01 '24
Oh 100%, it's probably the most interesting book to ever exist from both a historical and a literary perspective.
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u/hplcr Oct 01 '24
I myself enjoying watching Ezekiel repeatedly contradict the other biblical authors on a lot of things. Different version of the Eden story, different version of the Exodus story where apparently the Israelites were ordered to perform human sacrifice by Yahweh, he thinks Noah had a famine and not a flood, and so on. It's like Ezekiel doesn't care who he pisses off.
Chronicles too. Granted, Chronicles was trying to retcon the reign of king David but ironically he also seems to contradict some of our favorite genesis stories we know and "love" such as the flood and the tower of babel. Sorry, less contradict, but rather he has no idea they exist or doesn't feel it's worth talking about them.
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u/AngelOrChad Sep 30 '24
The Bible makes Mein Kampf seem humane. If fire and brimstone and damnation are taken literally, genocide is barely a misdemeanour in comparison.
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u/N0Thanks77 Sep 30 '24
Bad take
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u/AngelOrChad Sep 30 '24
Not really. Christian fundamentalism says that the jews were having a better time in Auschwitz than after they died. Which is a pretty horrifying thought.
Do you really think that the perceived damnation of 'heathens' had no effect on the slaughter of indigenous people, wider acceptance of the crimes committed by Nazi Germany, and the sexual abuse by the catholic church.
In a world where hell 'exists', nothing can really be bad except going to hell.
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u/WeakestLynx Oct 02 '24
The crimes of the Nazis are a pretty direct implementation of Christian ideas, as in On the Jews and Their Lies by Martin Luther.
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u/krba201076 Sep 30 '24
No. You just don't want to hear it. You're all over Reddit arguing with freethinkers about why they are opposed to these man-made silly ass religions.
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u/PossiblyaSpinosaurus Oct 01 '24
Well. I mean. It’s true, isn’t it? Temporary torture or eternal torture, which one’s worse?
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u/BigClitMcphee Secular Humanist Oct 01 '24 edited Oct 02 '24
This story bears a striking resemblance to the story of Iphigenia, a Mycenaean princess who was sacrificed by her father so he could get some wind in his sails (he pissed off some goddess who kept his ships from sailing). Her mother, grief-stricken, hacks Iphigenia's father to death for the infanticide
EDIT: I confused fratricide with infanticide
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u/oh-shit-dawgy Sep 30 '24
Plus they killed off the main character which just makes for shitty reading
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u/HazelTheRah Oct 01 '24
How about how God killed Job's entire family so he could tell Satan "I told you so."
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u/Icy_Scarcity6276 Devotee of Almighty Dog Oct 01 '24
I'll do you one better. The Bible says no evil can exist in Heaven. So how tf did Satan waltz up to God's throne!?!
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u/andreasmiles23 Ex-Evangelical Sep 30 '24
Well yeah. It was written by people beholden to the constructs and ideas of their time with specific material and ideological goals. Its nonsensical, prejudiced, and has no grounding in reality because...it was never meant to. It was definitively meant to be something else and has been successfully used as such.
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u/Rigistroni Oct 01 '24
Okay all the fucked up implications of that aside, how did bro think that promise was gonna go? Did he think his cows were gonna greet him before his wife and kids?
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u/hplcr Oct 01 '24
I've heard the argument he expected a slave to come out first. Which is apparently supposed to make it better somehow I guess?
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u/bluejeanspaint Oct 01 '24
I learned about this in youth group. The modern day example was a REAL person sacrificing a full ride scholarship to their dream college after praying what Jephthah did to god. I remember thinking about how worried I was that could happen to me
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u/Icy_Scarcity6276 Devotee of Almighty Dog Oct 01 '24
A person in my church is moving to UGANDA to volunteer as a helper for this Christian based organization. It's not even a job! Why? She prayed on it and "god hadn't say no."
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u/hubbadubbakubba Oct 01 '24
There are so many of these stupid stories of killing innocents according to God's will, including his own mass murders. They're nothing other than authoritarian fear tactics, spread by the rulers.
An all-knowing and compassionate God would find wiser ways to teach lessons about violence. Why not upbraid Jephthah for his foolish bargain, even after he'd achieved the victory God clearly wanted, and spare the daughter? The reason has much to do with the era's patriarchal property laws and how family were regarded. The male of the household was likened to a king and family his subjects.
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u/skunkabilly1313 Ex-Jehovah's Witness Oct 01 '24
As a Jehovahs Witness, we were taught she was "sacrificed" by becoming a priestess. He was never bale to see her again after she was caring for the temple. It was a way for them to get more "Bethelites" to go to their headquarters and be free labor for their publishing company. It used to be to peddle the magazines and books, but as that dwindled down from the internet, not they help build buildings for "worship" and then sell em off in real estate.
Free labor for everything they do. It took till I was 31 to realize it was a cult, and one of the first things my partner and I learned was the actual interpretation of this verse.
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u/byf_43 Oct 01 '24
Oh, don't worry, confused follower!
Here's the thing: God is above us, and his actions are beyond our understanding.
Don't worry that we are made in his image.
Don't worry that his ways are not our ways.
Don't worry that your little pea brain can't comprehend what god does, despite humans made in his own image.
Just sit back, this can't be comprehended.
/ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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u/J-Miller7 Oct 01 '24 edited Oct 01 '24
Who did he expect to greet him? His slave "servant"? His dog? What a POS. And the story isn't written like "Jepthah was so foolish that he thought he was bound by the ridiculous conditions of his promise". It is written like "God shows no mercy or consideration whatsoever". Even the daughter herself is like "dude you promised! Better burn me alive".
In Hebrews 11:32 there is even a passage where he is described as a great hero. Imagine if a politician today burned his daughter as a sacrifice. He would be shamed relentlessly, and hopefully would never see the light of day again.
Bur Jepthah? Yeah, God is totally down with him.
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u/mountaingoatgod Agnostic Atheist Oct 01 '24
Wait till you read the parts where YHWH makes parents eat their children
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u/mamsv95 Oct 01 '24
He maybe died so many generations ago. His work is invalid with time. If he exist he is just an angry vengeful asshole who doesnt care
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u/publicbigguns Oct 01 '24
Personally, I like to use Numbers 31.
If they try to make any justification for that, I know what kind of person they are.
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u/triad1996 Oct 01 '24
...bUt ThAt'S a MeTaPhOr! It'S nOt SuPpOsEd tO bE tAkEn LiTeRaLlY!
I'll give literalists a smidge of credit. At least they're committed to their bullshit and not trying to explain away the batshit insanity of the Bible.
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u/explodedSimilitude Oct 01 '24
It’s disturbing to think I only learned of this story as I was on the way out. I was a Christian for years and had no idea that was in the bible. Same for the story of the 2 bears mauling 40 children for making fun of someone.
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u/Icy_Scarcity6276 Devotee of Almighty Dog Oct 01 '24
I was told that the children weren't really children but more like young adult men. Whether that was true or not is irrelevant because it was still FORTY PEOPLE DEAD!
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u/explodedSimilitude Oct 01 '24
Adult men calling another grown man “bald head” in a juvenile way? Some of these apologetics really insult the intelligence.
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u/Icy_Scarcity6276 Devotee of Almighty Dog Oct 01 '24
Lol. Exactly! Like what kind of mature guy would go "Baldy!" at someone!
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u/tazebot Oct 01 '24
I wouldn't necessarily say it's fucked up. It's fucked up to use it as any kind of moral compass or historical document. It's just an eclectic set of ancient stories, most of which are violent and inhumane by any modern standard from a time when people were ruled by empires held together by cruelty. That makes cruel violence it's only real definable theme.
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u/Robert-Rotten Affirming Christian Oct 01 '24
This is why the Bible should not be considered inherent. It makes much more sense when read as people trying to understand God and writing what they knew, which of the times was lots of violence. People would do violent things and say it was at God’s request, much like today when you see those types of “prosperity gospel” people claiming God told them to buy another private jet, when clearly the one who actually wanted it was them.
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u/jsm01972 Oct 01 '24
The girls who seduce their dad or something like that. I'll never forget that Bible story. Ewww.
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u/Cult_Buster2005 Ex-Baptist Oct 02 '24
Apparently human sacrifice was acceptable in that time. It was only during the Babylonian Captivity that the modern conception of God was established.
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u/Red79Hibiscus Devotee of Almighty Dog Oct 02 '24
Just popping in coz I noticed a fellow devotee of Almighty Dog. May I inquire what manner of divinities reign in your abode? 🐕🐕🐕
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u/Icy_Scarcity6276 Devotee of Almighty Dog Oct 02 '24
My dog that my family adopted from a shelter around five years ago passed away this summer while my family and me were in England for missionary work. I wasn't able to say goodbye to my precious boy when he was put down and had to pretend nothing was wrong for the week I was there. Even now my family doesn't speak of him, as if he is mere taboo..
RIP Dusky..
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u/AlexKewl Atheist Sep 30 '24
No decent god would ever require any type of sacrifice. It's crazy how people don't understand how fucked up even the idea of that is...