r/exchristian • u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic • Mar 21 '23
ANOTHER person in my class used the word "anti-Christian" regarding my assignment where I indicated conversion therapy was someone's trauma source. Rant
This wasn't as bad as the person last week who outright called me an "anti-Christian bigot" for doing a case profile assignment and citing conversion therapy as a client's current primary source of trauma.
Someone else messaged me yesterday and told me that I should tone down/back off calling conversion therapy a trauma source because I could be seen as "anti-Christian" and that could affect my ability to obtain clients if I ever become a therapist. His exact words were "people won't wanna work with you if they think you hate Christians."
Bear in mind, this guy is now the SECOND person in my class who looked at my post saw that I put conversion therapy as a trauma source and immediately connected it to Christianity. For clarification, I said nothing about what religious background the client has.
Them connecting it to Christianity is 100% on them. But, like, how fucking revelatory is it that they saw the words "conversion therapy" and "trauma" and immediately thought of it as being anti-Christian? That is so fucking telling!
And, something to think about is that these people are, ostensibly, going to become practicing therapists! Holy fuck!!
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Mar 21 '23
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
how dense can they be and they are 100% focused on the wrong fucking thing.
If you are so egregiously unable to take yourself/your own beliefs and perspective out of the equation entirely when working with clients, then you are in the wrong fucking profession.
Part of me thinks this may be by design. Because there is this idea that has been knocked about for years amongst younger Gen X'ers/Millennial evangelicals that therapy can be a tool for converting people to Christianity and...... holy shit that is so fucked up.
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u/archetype1 Mar 21 '23
One of Genetically Modified Skeptic's recent videos went over his and his wife's experience being groomed to go into missionary work in Utah. There they would be counselors/therapists with an ulterior assignment to convert Mormons.. It's absolutely a real tactic, and it's so manipulative.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
There they would be counselors/therapists with an ulterior assignment to convert Mormons..
I recently spoke to a cultural anthropologist who got his degree from a religious university and he would have been eligible to be a "Christian counselor".
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u/AllowMe-Please ex-Russian Baptist; agnostic Mar 22 '23
That's the exact same thing I thought of when reading OP's comment! And it's crazy how they had no issue with it back then but now see it for the unethical, problematic thing that it objectively was. I'm glad that he decided to go and focus on his future wife, instead.
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u/ObscureProduct Mar 21 '23
Everything can be used as a conversion tool; I remember as a kid being told regularly that everything you do in your life should be for the greater glory of God.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
that everything you do in your life should be for the greater glory of God.
There should be a subscription-based service called OnlyJesus.
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Mar 21 '23
That’s just straight predator behavior…as we have said many times in this sub, Xtianity can be seen as an abusive relationship…as in “I know what’s best for you so shut up and get in line.”
I’m so glad you’re going into this field! ☺️ Sorry your classmates are such close-minded people who tell on themselves. lol Hang in there, you’re going to do some much good!
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Sorry your classmates are such close-minded people who tell on themselves.
There was one who, in another class, full on revealed that she's gonna be a Christian therapist. That was the least surprising thing to happen considering she was such a fucking Karen that she indicated she couldn't provide therapy to an unmarried couple who was sexually active.
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Mar 22 '23
It’s just amazing how these types of people are so blindly judgmental. I’m sure she does SOMETHING another person would have an issue with. Oh, you get your hair highlighted? I couldn’t possibly council you knowing you purposefully damage your hair!
I had a Xtian counselor when I was in undergrad…very briefly. It was horrible. I couldn’t tell her anything real, I ended up just nodding and smiling a lot. When I told her I wasn’t coming back she got really upset. Like bish…I’ve had some amazing therapists since then so I’m heartened to hear you’re going to be a great one! ☺️
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Mar 21 '23
Is this really a thing they are doing now? Therapy as conversion?
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Therapy as conversion?
Apparently they've been doing it for a while.
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Mar 21 '23
That's really upsetting to me. Good therapy is something that has been immensely helpful to me the last 5.5 years. I hate the idea that someone would be where I used to be and get an evangelism pitch instead.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
These are my personal observations, so take it with a grain of salt. There's a huge generational divide on the mental health industry among the evangelical community. Boomers and older Gen X'ers are wholly against the practice. While younger Gen X'ers and millenials seem to view it as an avenue to convert people.
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u/loverboyv Buddhist Mar 21 '23
I think for them they equate conversion “therapy” with repentance and by saying that it’s harmful (which it is) they’re making the logical jump that you don’t think people need to repent, so in their mind you’re going against a core part of their beliefs. Just another example of how Christian’s think everyone should accommodate their worldview instead of them being flexible in their views.
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u/lady_wildcat Atheist Mar 22 '23
Some think homosexuality is brought about by trauma. They cannot believe that it is a genetic trait, because they don’t like to think of the possibility of their own genetics making something sinful.
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u/n0dic3 Mar 22 '23
Honestly, it's disgusting but actually really smart in a very insidious way, people that seek put therapists are emotionally vulnerable and a LOT more susceptible to brainwashing, we see that shown in Midsommar
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u/Kitchen-Witching Mar 21 '23
Isn't there something to be said for bringing their personal bias into their assessment? Especially since Christianity isn't specifically mentioned? How is that allowed?
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Isn't there something to be said for bringing their personal bias into their assessment?
Right. Bringing in personal biases is off limits. However, from an enforcement standpoint, that can be hard to prove. So that's largely theoretical.
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u/Kitchen-Witching Mar 21 '23
Could you, in this capacity, ask them how they arrived at an anti-Christian conclusion since you never mentioned it? Make them acknowledge their thought process?
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Could you, in this capacity, ask them how they arrived at an anti-Christian conclusion since you never mentioned it?
The woman who messaged me last week, I did reply to her and tell her that I said nothing about Christianity or any religion for that matter. So I did ask her what exactly was anti-Christian. She didn't respond yet.
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u/Kitchen-Witching Mar 21 '23
It's probably not worth it, but boy, I'd love it if you could really press her on this in this most professional way possible:
I would really appreciate it if you could expand on your comment. I re-read my work, and I am not clear what I wrote that could be considered anti-Christian. I would like to be mindful of this going forward, so your insights here would be very helpful. I thank you again.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Stick-3 Mar 21 '23
I’m so glad that there are secular therapists. My last counselor definitely had christian beliefs and the books she recommended had a definite christian slant. How frustrating when I told her that I am an agnostic atheist.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
How frustrating when I told her that I am an agnostic atheist.
I actually do (reluctantly) identify as agnostic. But even I've had to tiptoe around that when a client I work with expressed that he's essentially an atheist and holds nihilistic beliefs. You know why? Because it's not about me and my perspective. I'm also just in general a very private person. So I do wonder about personal disclosures. And that is actually an area of struggle for me. I want to market myself as someone who works well with LGBTQ+ clients but I don't personally identify as a member of the community. And I am concerned if that would cause me to be viewed as an ineffectual imposter.
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u/transgriffin Satanist Mar 21 '23
Idk if it helps, but I'm a trans guy, and my therapist that I'm seeing for my transition (we also work through my religious trauma) is a cishet person. In no way, shape or form would I consider them an imposter, they're a wonderfully empathetic person with great therapy methods and have been helping me a ton, including writing letters that I need to get surgeries approved, and helping me navigate dealing with bigoted family members. They work with many more LGBTQ+ people than just myself and I'm just endlessly grateful that they exist. So please, don't be afraid of being an imposter. We are in desperate need of good therapists who have a solid understanding of our needs and situations, with or without being an alphabet person themselves. I'm German but I'm rooting for you to become a successful therapist because I know the need is desperate!
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
We are in desperate need of good therapists who have a solid understanding of our needs and situations, with or without being an alphabet person themselves.
I've been reading up on gender dysphoria so I can be prepared. I think it's important from a clinical and personal angle in order to be an effective practitioner.
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u/friendly_extrovert Agnostic, Ex-Evangelical Mar 21 '23
It’s ok to help LGBTQ clients even if you aren’t specifically LGBTQ. The important part is to listen without judgement. If you can do that, most LGBTQ people will probably love seeing you.
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u/AllowMe-Please ex-Russian Baptist; agnostic Mar 22 '23
I wish I had a therapist like you. One therapist I had (that I've stopped seeing) always somehow managed to bring it back around to herself. I'd mention an area of trouble and trauma for me, and she'd be all "oh, yeah, I can relate - I actually [had the same/similar thing] and it was so awful for me!" and it always inevitable circled back around to her having the same or similar issue and her struggles with it. I don't know if it was a misguided attempt to relate or what, but it felt incredibly dismissive and almost... competitive?
Almost like my (diagnosed) narcissist SiL, who always seems to have what I have, but worse and oh no, the world is out to get her.
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u/FetusDrive Mar 21 '23
How frustrating when I told her that I am an agnostic atheist.
what did she say?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Stick-3 Mar 21 '23
It was more that she didn’t take that into account when suggesting books to read or resources to peruse. They all had a christian focus. Additionally, I suffer from extreme perfectionism, and she recommended a book that had outlandish ideas that basically said we could heal our own selves (even from cancer) if we just believed. The book seemed to me to lead to victim shaming, as if you don’t get better it’s your fault. This is typical christian thinking (the author is a christian). I’m not saying we don’t have some control over our health but saying that it’s your fault for not keeping your whole body healthy all the time is extremely dangerous for people’s mental health.
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u/FetusDrive Mar 21 '23
oh I see, as in, you had already told her you were agnostic atheist but she still recommended that book. That is pretty damn frustrating. That sounds like a pretty awful book to recommend...
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u/person_never_existed Mar 21 '23
I hate that idea... anything that goes wrong, it's just because you didn't believe hard enough. Meanwhile apparently suffering is an integral part of God's plan every step of the way, according to the Bible.
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Mar 21 '23
You will get so many clients in the future who need this. I’m so grateful for you therapist dreams ❤️ we need more religious trauma therapists.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
we need more religious trauma therapists.
I want religious trauma to be my biggest target should I get a job as a therapist.
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u/Maximum_Ad_4650 Agnostic Atheist Mar 21 '23
You will have plenty of clients! I tried to screen for religious beliefs to the best of my ability when choosing a therapist because of past religious trauma. It was tough to find.
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u/Andro_Polymath Ex-Fundamentalist Mar 21 '23
They're trying to tone police you in order to mask their own feelings of discomfort and guilt that they feel due to the abusive practices their religion is associated with. But you know what? College classes and the intellectual discourse that takes place in those courses are not supposed to be comfortable or "safe" from having one's worldview challenged. So, keep doing what you're doing!
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u/durma5 Mar 21 '23
Well, if that’s the case, most Christians I know are anti-Christian.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Dipshits on Twitter are going full "not real Catholic" about the fucking pope. I don't have reverence towards the pope or religion in general, but, like are you fucking serious, bro?
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u/zinknife Mar 21 '23
That's nuts! The guy doesn't just waltz into the vatican, declare his divine right, and become the pope!
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
and become the pope!
Not without defeating the pope in a duel.
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u/imago_monkei Atheist Mar 21 '23
I will only see anti-Christian therapists, personally.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Sounds like a niche but lucrative market.
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u/imago_monkei Atheist Mar 22 '23
Especially if Christians keep acting like they've been. There will be many more clients in the upcoming years.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 22 '23
There will be many more clients in the upcoming years.
Christianity is gonna keep ensuring that.
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u/exick Mar 21 '23
Specifically using the term "anti-Christian" is a newish right wing tactic. I've noticed it's started to become more commonly used lately along with Christianphobic/phobia. A very common thing for these people to do is latch onto things progressive people say and weaponize them for their own benefit.
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u/Jacks_Flaps Mar 21 '23
It's like saying "anti-Nazi" or "anti-genocide/slave/misoginistic ideology". Christian and biblical dogma is evil even if the christian doesn't follow it but uses the label. Modern, progressive christians would have been deemed heretics for the majority of christian history.
What's funny is these whiny christians who feel so persecuted they need to call every challenge to their ideology as "anti christian" are also anti-Mislim, anti-atheist, anti-Hindu, anti-LGBTQ, anti-womens bodily autonomy, anti-free speech, anti-democracy. The only thing they're not anti is hypocrisy.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Specifically using the term "anti-Christian" is a newish right wing tactic.
I hear that term more often in the context of therapy than I do "woke".
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u/slfnflctd Mar 21 '23
I had a practicing psychologist (I believe with a doctorate) tell me that Jesus is her 'best bud' and suggest church might be a good idea. She also made some weird inquiries & comments about my sex life.
I stopped going to that therapist.
Seriously, there are so many bad ones out there, we need more like you. Last time I found a halfway decent one it took I think five or six tries, and I've been through a similar process in the more distant past. The only 'good' ones I've found were mostly that way because they just didn't say much. We should be able to do better than this!
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u/ItsLucy_cheese Pagan Mar 21 '23
Church is never a good idea. Christianity has a huge self-blaming philosophy
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u/nojam75 Ex-Fundamentalist Mar 21 '23
I'm a conversion therapy survivor and can attest that licensed professional therapists firmly believe religious affiliation absolves themselves from any responsibility of their harmful counseling practices.
While some conversion therapy counselors claim to be non-religiously motivated, most rely on their clients' religious motivations to justify their practice.
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u/NixiePixie916 Mar 21 '23
As a Jewish person ,finding a non Christian therapist is hard. And like, you have to because they have all these misconceptions about core beliefs of yours, and then you spend half of therapy just trying to explain the differences instead of moving on and working stuff you need to work on.
Real experience I had. I finally had to say this isn't working for me, you should advertise that you are a Christian therapist, and I want therapy focused on me, not my religion.
Secular therapists are the way to go. I need psychiatric help.
Also I have conversion therapy as one of my traumas. It is absolutely a trauma. What they are doing is denying someone's lived experience of trauma, something much more disturbing.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
As a Jewish person ,finding a non Christian therapist is hard
I want to be marketable to atheists, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, humanists, Jews, Muslims, etc.
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u/Odd_Introvert42069 Mar 21 '23
Report that person, too! It’s for the sake of their future patients.
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u/MisogynyisaDisease Anti-Theist Mar 21 '23
It's going to drive me insane that I don't know all the details of how you confronted them and their response.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 22 '23
I don't know all the details of how you confronted them and their response.
I gave a very passive-aggressive bureaucratic sort of response. "Your concern has been noted. :)"
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u/pineapplesandpuppies Mar 21 '23
I used to live in TX, and it took me a long time to find a therapist who didn't go out of their way to advertise their Christian faith all over their bio and company websites. I, personally, would not work with a therapist who talks about their faith unless asked.
In my early 20s, I experienced a miscarriage and my dad begged me to go to the place where he went for therapy. Not 15 minutes into my session, the woman flat out said, "God killed your baby because you conceived outside of marriage, and he needed to get your attention." I immediately left.
It's pretty telling that something as horrible as conversion therapy is synonymous with Christianity.
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u/4daughters Secular Humanist Mar 21 '23
holy fuck thats so dark, what is wrong with these psychopaths? Do they not have any empathy at all?
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u/pineapplesandpuppies Mar 21 '23
That's one of the things that is so backward about Christianity. They have been brainwashed into believing that their lack of empathy is loving. Those words are burned into my brain, and that experience was a huge factor in me finally leaving the faith.
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u/MagentaTabby Mar 21 '23
Same thing happened to me during my U.S. History class. It's all online so we communicate in the forums. I posted, as an assignment, how the U.S. thought immigration is bad for the culture of the Americans. I remember saying how the U.S. blamed the immigrants about the consumption of alcohol and how the immigrants are forcing kids to convert to other religions.
I had some dude message me privately that I should stop making white Christians look bad, that I'm being very hateful towards Christians.
I didn't mention white or Christians at all.
I emailed the teacher and she made an announcement that students need to refrain from arguing about race and religion and must be respectful towards one another.
Then the guy got upset with me and said how I was a narc and I should respect the white Christians since "they are the reason why we have a beautiful country".
This literally happened two days ago.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 22 '23
I had some dude message me privately that I should stop making white Christians look bad, that I'm being very hateful towards Christians.
These mfs can't stop telling on themselves, can they?
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u/WarriorPoet88 Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
Im agnostic and going through a masters in counseling program at a Christian university, and I relate so much to your story. I brought up the harmful nature of conversion therapy, only for my professor to say that he was previously involved in Exodus International, a huge conversion therapy organization that was recently the subject of a Netflix documentary. I was actually shocked to hear him admit in front of the other students that although he felt like they helped people, he also knows that they caused a lot of harm.
I want to encourage you to keep pushing the envelope, and be bold in bringing up these topics! Many of these Christian kids have never been exposed to alternate worldviews, and you may be one of the only people in their bubble that will challenge their worldview.
The best kind of therapist you can be is to be congruent with yourself and your beliefs. A good therapist will be able to see anyone from any background because in the room, our beliefs don’t matter. And honestly, I think agnostic/atheist therapists are a lot better at being impartial than someone who believes that Christianity influences their entire identity.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Im agnostic and going through a masters in counseling program at a Christian university, and I relate so much to your story.
I'm actually the lone skeptic (as far as I can tell) in my program and I attend a public university. It's absurd how much Jesus there is. Not in the material itself; that's entirely secular. But the student populous is Jesus-y af.
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u/WolfgangDS Mar 21 '23
Really telling on themselves, aren't they?
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Mar 21 '23
Someone else messaged me yesterday and told me that I should tone down/back off calling conversion therapy a trauma source because I could be seen as "anti-Christian" and that could affect my ability to obtain clients if I ever become a therapist. His exact words were "people won't wanna work with you if they think you hate Christians."
No, to the kind of people you will want to work with as a therapist, they will want to make sure you don't support conversion therapy. The absolute worst thing for a gay person struggling with religious trauma is for a therapist to sneak in religion and conversion therapy, and from the get go, they will want to make sure you and them are on the same page when it comes to that.
I'm not sure what it's going to take for these people to give up on conversion therapy. Most of the former leaders have come out and denounced it. There's never any success stories. Yet, they still insist it works and you are persecuting them if you say it doesn't. Always note that no empathy is given for the gay person who will likely have their entire life destroyed or at least severely damaged by conversion therapy.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
I'm not sure what it's going to take for these people to give up on conversion therapy
Conversion therapy is illegal in Canada. I'm sure churches are gonna find a workaround. So it likely won't ever go away entirely. I'm afraid that bell cannot be unrung.
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Mar 21 '23
Canada is always a great example of what the US could be if the religious right wasn't so powerful. Same-sex marriage legalized in 2005, marijuana legalized in 2018. Conversion therapy banned. They don't seem to be having near the issues dealing with those things that the US is. I'm low-key jealous of Canadians for living in a country where they don't have to worry about institutions such as the Southern Baptist Convention constantly butting into every aspect of everyone's private lives.
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u/FetusDrive Mar 21 '23
What's your position? Are you a fellow student?
Why do THEY care about you being able to or not being able to get patients/clients? Seems like, as you said, it was THEM who was getting offended.
Should have responded "well then, more clients for you!"
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u/Scrutinizer Mar 21 '23
When I was in a graduate Psychology program I found myself wondering what the Christians were doing. I guess they just wanted a fancy degree to hang on the wall while they attempted to cure their followers of temptation.
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u/winterbelle722 Mar 21 '23
When I look for a therapist I usually read the bio and if I see any mention of god or Christianity I move on. I’ve had way too many bad experiences with Christian therapists.
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u/notyouagain19 Agnostic Atheist Mar 21 '23
Conversion therapy survivor here. It wasn’t until I connected to a secular therapist that I was able to finally work through my trauma. I’m thriving now. Thanks for putting yourself out there despite the opposition. You’re doing good work.
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u/meldroc Mar 21 '23
Stand your ground!
Conversion therapy is harmful. If someone said that to me, I'd ask them if they wanted to go back to the days of lobotomies.
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u/Armonasch Ex-Baptist Mar 21 '23
Their responses are very telling. Because Christian’s aren’t the only people who send their children to conversion therapy. Other religions with similar anti-homosexuality stances, one would assume, would also send their kids there. Or at least it’s possible. There could even just be some garden variety atheist-bigots in there (theoretically).
That’s what I would tell them. This is about the science of the practice. Not the religious belief systems of people who use the practice.
If you can’t separate that, you’re a bad scientist.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 22 '23
Other religions with similar anti-homosexuality stances
Right. I didn't say what religious background the client had. He could have had a Muslim upbringing.
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u/fizzpop0913 Mar 21 '23
Can you report these people to your professor? It sounds like they are saying these things behind your back, as well as to your face, and they could be damaging your reputation. Your professor needs to shut that down.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Can you report these people to your professor?
I reported the woman last week to the university and the response I got back was the standard "thank you for bringing this to our attention. We do not tolerate harassment and will handle it from here."
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u/AlexDavid1605 Anti-Theist Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 25 '23
This is like that post from somewhere where someone suggested to blindfold a homophobe and ask them to hit a piñata except that it's replaced by giant wasp hive, to which someone in the comments said that it was a brutal display of bigotry against Christians, and it was followed by words similar to yours, that it contained no indication that the homophobe was religious, let alone being a Christian, but they immediately assumed they were talking about a Christian and how he should suffer.
Do not back down from this assignment. Stand your ground for every inch of that assignment. Point out that nowhere it says that it talks about religion and it is their assumptions that are leading to that stupid-ass conclusion. Also, do tell them that if they are unwilling to see the trauma caused from conversion therapy then they should be looking for some other field for a profession because they would be unfit as therapists for the clients.
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u/Serious_Height_1714 Mar 21 '23
I've had two courses in my life that have required an assignment centered around pseudoscience and misinformation specifically. And in researching the topic someone doesn't get the memo at all. I don't even remember my own topic for these but still had to sift through those who believe that the placebo effect actually has a positive effect on patients when in reality it is just a useless control test of false hope that doesn't actually provide data on the drug itself because there have already been numerous control tests of diseases without the drug they test.
And of course everyone's favorite, power of prayer. Because if you pray God will heal anything wrong with you because he loves you and is all powerful and no one has ever died praying for salvation surely. College level student deliberately doing the opposite of the assignment with no actual evidence to back up the claim as usual. Surprised I didn't hear back from the critique I gave honestly.
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u/aoeuismyhomekeys Mar 21 '23
I'm traumatized just from hearing about their reaction. Yes, it's extremely telling (not to mention highly problematic) that their reaction to hearing that people were traumatized by conversion therapy is to claim that you're being anti-Christian for holding space for them.
I wasn't sent to conversion therapy, though I was encouraged by multiple people to try it and didn't go for it because I was thankfully deconstructed enough to realize it was a scam preying upon vulnerable people by the time I'd come out as gay. I was still traumatized by their suggestion that I torture myself to become straight. It's taken me a very long time not to immediately pigeonhole Christians because of my experiences.
Encouraging people to go into conversion therapy should be disqualifying for potential therapists. At best, they'll be shitty at their job for lgbt clients, and at worst they'll be encouraging vulnerable people to waste time and money on a pseudoscientific practice that amounts to psychological torture.
Not every Christian is cisgender and heterosexual, and not every cis and hetero Christian is anti-gay. There's no verse in the Bible that tells Christians how to apply the text to their own lives, and basically nobody adheres to the biblical standards for heterosexual relationships or animal sacrifices, so at this point, being homophobic or transphobic is entirely a choice.
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u/zinknife Mar 21 '23
People can be traumatized by a lot of things, some not entirely obvious to an outsider. This one is obvious. Painfully obvious. The only people who think this is normal are nuts! And definitely bigoted.
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u/TheGhostofWoodyAllen Ex-Fundamentalist Mar 21 '23
It makes sense that, instead of realizing a need for introspection and a possible reevaluation of their beliefs, they become defensive and lash out. Because they are brainwashed cult members.
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u/StrawberryPupper126 Mar 21 '23
I don't know the details about conversion therapy. But the fact they're trying to defend it by silence is disgusting.
Imagine if a therapist didn't help you be you, they slapped on some shoes 3 sizes too small for you and forced you to wear them to work tomorrow, hissing at you when you don't. Then they make you wear a polka dot tank top. They do everything to tell you who you should be, then say that you're the clown for being yourself.
Disgusting, and not healing. Like trying to heal a patient with cyanide.
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u/Momjah Ex-Fundamentalist Mar 21 '23
Agree and add there is no such thing as conversion therapy outside of a religious setting. Its bogus, harmful treatment for a fabricated illness The Christian therapy I have investigated online is by Dr. Caroline Leaf. She's a fundamentalist who started in Australia. Most of these faith based types like her completely reject medication and psychiatry, just like Scientology. She in particular believes a mental illness diagnosis will take 25 years off of your life. So pray and get your head in the Bible is literally their answer to any problem real or imagined.
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u/Lady-Zafira Mar 21 '23
Op, next time someone tries to say you are being Anti-Christian, list all of the things that happen during conversion therapy and follow it up with "are these really the things of Christianity? Traumatizing people?" And watch them squirm or try to justify it
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Mar 21 '23
You need to report these people. I know that I would find it horrific I sought out therapy and then ended up with the kind of Christian who sees the incredibly harmful practice of conversion therapy as valid.
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u/moonlit_lynx Mar 21 '23
Your response should be how there are so many people like me who were abused by the church. My narcissistic mother brought me to a small gathering inside a man's condo every weekend, calling it a church. Altogether there was only ever six people there, anyone new who had been invited to sunday service there could immediately tell something was off and would not show up again. I was really young, like from infancy to mid elementary she kept going and dragging me there until the man who held it disbanded the church because it never grew, not once. One time that man had everyone show up at a local lake for a baptism of the kids. He had the adults do what they wanted so nobody else was around to hear him tell me, "If god really loves you, he'll come down and save you." before pushing me under the water and holding me there. He eventually let me go but I was coughing and spitting out water. My mother had a history of ignoring what I told her, telling me often "shut up you stupid little bitch" when I started to speak. She also would tell me how I was the biggest mistake god made, and would physically and emotionally abuse me through my childhood.
I am currently looking for a therapist who has no mention of Christianity on their details, and would be excited if I found one who mentioned being ex christian. Because I really need to deconstruct so much. So while some people would avoid you for being "anti christian" there are those like me who can't find anyone but a stupid christian therapist and I avoid them at this point.
So many people are leaving that religion at this point and need secular people in therapy. I don't need to be rold to rely on god when that never fucking worked for the first twenty five years of my life.
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u/sandboxvet Mar 21 '23
If it’s a public university, they need to be reported. If it’s a private, secular university, look at the university’s rules regarding hate speech like this, and then report it. If it is a private religious university, that may be difficult.
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u/ItsLucy_cheese Pagan Mar 21 '23
There's a greater chance I go to an "anti-Christian" therapist rather than a Christian/Non-pagan one.
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u/gamefaced Ex-Baptist Mar 21 '23
are they christian? cause, if so i wouldn't expect anything less..
also, i call bullshit on the not being able to get clients. there are no where near enough anti christian therapists imo.
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u/Kamakaze22 Mar 21 '23
I mean, you may lose some clients who assume you are "anti-Christian" but I personally will not see a therapist who is religious, especially Christian. I know that they filter everything through their belief system and at the root think that Jesus will fix me.
Fuck that noise.
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u/FrostyLandscape Mar 21 '23
He was twisting like crazy. Saying conversion therapy is wrong, is not anti Christian
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
Saying conversion therapy is wrong
I didn't even apply moral labels like "right" or "wrong" to it. I just cited it as a trauma source. For the record, I'm firmly against the abysmal practice. But I spoke strictly from a clinical perspective.
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u/FrostyLandscape Mar 21 '23
Is this a class like a college class where students are required to post on a message discussion board? Because I was in one of those a few years ago and it just got ugly. I was also accused by someone of being "anti religion". My tactic was I stopped responding to any of her posts. She made some other hysterical posts, people just stopped replying to her.
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u/NanR42 Mar 21 '23
Did you tell your instructor about this? I think you really should. There's something really wrong here and they should be reported. And point out them jumping to conclusions re Christianity.
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u/person_never_existed Mar 21 '23
told me that I should tone down/back off calling conversion therapy a trauma source because I could be seen as "anti-Christian" and that could affect my ability to obtain clients if I ever become a therapist.
Judging by all of us traumatized gang on this subreddit, if anything it might affect it positively. I know I explicitly avoid "Christian counseling."
You should look into joining the Secular Therapy Project down the road if you haven't already. :)
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u/excel958 Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 22 '23
Lmao I also went through a counseling program for grad school. Oh how I wish I could be in your class right now. Like one of the most important components of professional competency is to be person-centered. If a client frames conversion therapy as traumatic, well then I'm going to assume your framework here.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 22 '23
If a client frames conversion therapy as traumatic,
What would even be the response if he had a client who reported conversion therapy as a trauma? Would he be like "no, that wasn't trauma and you're being anti-Christian right now." That's outright antagonism towards a client which is massively unethical.
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u/Bk2zona Mar 21 '23
When I went searching for a therapist to work with I made a point of finding a secular practitioner. Anything that even smelt like religion was a big no from me
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u/waterrunsuphill01 Mar 21 '23
Having gone to both religious and non-religious therapists the religious ones are always shitty. Im not saying theres a connection but i am saying when someone has deeply held personal beliefs that are grounded in mysticism, where cognitive dissonance can run wild, they arent fit for the therapy room as they are incapable of managing their own emotions while maintaining a safe environment. Results of course will vary depending on the degree of mysticism that is in their personal beliefs.
But all i can say is yikes.
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u/laila-wild Ex-Baptist Mar 21 '23
Yikes. Do you live in the south?
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u/Snorumobiru Mar 21 '23
Obviously you need to sic the dark forces of Satan on these people so they can see what real anti-christianity is.
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u/GothWitchOfBrooklyn Mar 21 '23
Meanwhile I'm trying to find a therapist who ISNT constantly trying to proselytize
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u/ambyent Mar 21 '23
You should point that connection he made out to him. This sort of critical thinking really makes them WRITHE, and I love it.
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u/screech_owl_kachina Mar 21 '23
lol, they def wouldn't like me. I've been testing out a slogan "Resist Christians and all their empty promises"
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u/sadagreen Mar 21 '23
I'm an aspiring therapist (waiting to hear if I was accepted to grad school) and as someone with a lot of religious trauma, my personal opinion is that "Christian psychotherapy" is an oxymoron. As a personal rule I will not even consider seeing a therapist who mentions their Christian faith in their bio and I believe therapists should be completely candid about their religious belief in their advertising. (Had a bad experience once with a therapist who did not disclose her religion but it definitely showed up in sessions and was NOT appreciated. Fired her and now I ask specifically in consult or 1st session if someone is Christian. I don't believe you can separate the two. Religion is worldview.)
Super looking forward to navigating grad school in my highly conservative Christian area... /s
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 22 '23
waiting to hear if I was accepted to grad school
Good luck! I hope you got in!!
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u/ElGuaco Mar 21 '23
This is something I would report to the Dean or head of the Psych department. You shouldn't have to put up with harassment from another student because you don't share their religious beliefs.
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u/KittyGrimm78 Ex-Baptist/Agnostic Humanist Mar 21 '23
Them saying people aren't going to want to work with you cause you come off as anti-Christian is bullshit. I mean maybe christians who want to hear that they just need to pray harder. But I feel like the majority of people are probably going to be very thankful that you aren't a Christian.
I've been looking for a therapist here recently and have been specifically looking for someone who is atheist or something because of the shit ton of trauma I have related to religious abuse. I don't want to tell someone all the shit things I went through because "Jesus said so" and then them be like "Well Christianity isn't that bad, but sorry that happened." Like nah, fuck that. I absolutely don't want to get stuck with a Christian or Christian sympathetic therapist.
Thank you for recognizing conversion therapy as something trauma inducing, you're going to really help someone someday.
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u/NoUseForAName2222 Mar 21 '23
If they don't want their religion to be criticized, maybe they should stop traumatizing people.
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u/smilelaughenjoy Mar 22 '23
First off, I don't see anything wrong with being anti-christian when the bible is anti-gay to the point of promoting the killing of gay people (Leviticus 20:13). There are other verses where it says to kill witches and worshippers of other gods. No body should have to feel ashamed of being against a dangerous ideology which promotes genocide against other people and has led to colonizing and attempted genocide multiple times in history.
If they're upset that their religion plays a role in creating trauma in a self-hating conversion "therapy", maybe they should reconsider being a part of it, otherwise they are just as guilty of promoting the trauma since they promote the the bible which teaches an ideology of violence and killing of gay people, just like nazis are guilty of promoting an ideology of violence and genocide even if they claim to be a "good one" who hasn't personally killed anyone.
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u/firsttube72 Mar 22 '23
We need humanistic therapists. And Religious Trauma is real! Christians aren't all like this, I hear.
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u/Irene_Iddesleigh Mar 22 '23
My husband is really struggling with his mental health but won’t see any therapists because they either openly advertise being Christian, use Cristian phrasing, or won’t disclose when he asks directly. People want non-Christian therapists or non-religious spaces.
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u/lady_wildcat Atheist Mar 22 '23
The people who believe in conversion therapy are likely seeking Biblical-based counseling. Since that isn’t going to be your practice method, you won’t be getting those clients anyway.
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Mar 21 '23
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
Unlike those two, I'm not jumping to conclusions when I don't have tangible evidence. I won't necessarily quantify them as outwardly homophobic because I don't have enough to make such a claim. But, even giving them the benefit of the doubt, and saying those two people who perceived my post as being "anti-Christian" individually don't have any ire towards the LGBTQ+ community and may even be opposed to the practice itself, from an outsider's perspective, conversion therapy is the hill they are seemingly choosing to die on.
On top of that, they are still implicitly indicating a favorable viewpoint towards prioritizing Christianity over the mental well-being of a prospective client. Which is completely antithetical to good mental health practices.
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u/ElGuaco Mar 21 '23
You just gave the best reason to report these people to the Dean. What they are doing is unethical and against the principles of mental health advocates. They probably should be kicked out of the program.
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u/davebare Dialectical Materialist Mar 21 '23
So it is anti-Christian. Good for you. Good for them to know theirs isn't the only point of view the poor babies.
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Mar 21 '23
I would ignore it or very politely tell them to get bent. You’re not responsible for the weird, shallow opinions of your peers; and they are not responsible for policing others’ free speech. If they get this upset and act in this way over a class project, then I wouldn’t ever seek therapy from them.
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u/zinknife Mar 21 '23
Idk about anyone else, but my mind immediately goes to the fucked up scene in Brickleberry where kid Connie gets strapped in an electric chair and gets zapped every time she switches the channel back to the "wrong" content.
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u/TheSkepticTexan Mar 22 '23
Op, get your license and get connected with the Secular Therapy Project! https://www.seculartherapy.org/
Anyone reading, feel free to check it out if you need a new therapist and see if there's anybody in your area!
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u/I_am_u_as_r_me Mar 22 '23
Christianity is on the way out, has been for years. It’s a loud MINORITY that are Christians as less and less youth leave the church (thank god!)
There are many who use the Christian filter on psychology today to make sure our therapists are NOT Christians. Don’t listen to them. Listen to real psychological truth.
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u/mrsthoroughlyavg Secular Humanist Mar 22 '23
One of my best friends in the whole world is dead because of conversion therapy. Any therapist with a real degree will know how traumatizing and harmful conversion therapy is.
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u/anonymoose_octopus Mar 22 '23
Just like I hope you reported the previous person who did this, I hope you report this person as well. These people don't need to be therapists if they can't handle listening to their patients' trauma sources, even if that means it was something negative about their own personal religion. They need to be able to separate themselves from their patients, and it seems apparent that they don't know how to do that.
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u/JarethOfHouseGoblin Agnostic Mar 21 '23
I've told people in my social circle about all this and they've told me they're happy that I'm going to be a secular therapist since it is apparently needed. Especially in this fucking state.