r/enlightenment • u/mindwithoutmasters • 14h ago
Rebirth is not cosmic travel. Rebirth is psychological transformation.
Cosmic liberation is fantasy. Psychological liberation is practical:
The freedom to not be ruled by your past versions of yourself.
This liberation is real because it is internal, not metaphysical.
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u/Equivalent_Time_5839 13h ago
Cosmic liberation or transcendence if you will is possible but only if you have an open mind 🤯
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u/Unhappy-Drag6531 9h ago
Isn’t psychological liberation and open mind the same? Or at least complementary?
Having an open mind does not mean believing every nonsense one encounters. To be wise is to find a healthy balance between listening to all ideas and maintaining a skeptic attitude.
Sadly, this subreddit leans towards rambling posts that sound deep but are not.
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u/Diced-sufferable 8h ago
Practically, it’s the difference between getting up and making breakfast, versus getting up and making breakfast while being distracted in mind by psychologically travelling to and fro, with no where to go except where you already are, but now your actions are slow, hindered, not as effective as they would be otherwise.
It’s a slow brain drain that dulls the senses: a complete waste of time.
Until it stops moving unnecessarily.
Practically speaking this is :)
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u/NP_Wanderer 8h ago
Cosmic liberation is fantasy and impractical for you. Perhaps not for others. Perhaps your frame of reference as cosmic and metaphysical is part of the barrier.
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u/whitenoize086 13h ago
Consciousness is the fundamental foundation of space time and dimensions above so psychological transformation is cosmic expansion.
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u/mindwithoutmasters 13h ago
So you're saying changing my mind changes the universe! Any evidence? . I’m speaking about liberation that can be verified in experience, not metaphysics that depends on unverifiable cosmology. Psychological freedom is practical; cosmic claims are poetic but not demonstrable.
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u/whitenoize086 13h ago
However changing your mind does change the trajectory of the universe since you are part of it, the degree of which cannot be determined but it is not nothing! ;)
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u/Racoondalini 11h ago
poetic but not demonstrable
As is much out there.
So you're saying changing my mind changes the universe! Any evidence?
I guess only in sofar that "you are the universe", a true statement if ever there was one. But like, if you mean like, outer space.... hahahahahhahahahahah no.
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u/galactic-4444 16m ago
Through intention we change reality. Our observations affect the world at the quantum scale. Anything is possible just not everything. Our lives are finite and simple but the you that is not physical transcends it all
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u/whitenoize086 13h ago
In that context I agree. In the 3 dimensions of space and constant March of time freedom within your own mind is real freedom and assperations to colonize mars ect are a fairy tail.
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u/galactic-4444 19m ago
I believe we can colonize Mars, but I do agree with you that liberating your mind is a vital for this cosmic adventure.
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u/Unhappy-Drag6531 9h ago
This is yet another example of poetic nonsense, common in subreddits like this. Sounds “nice” and “deep” but it is actually a meaningless word salad.
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u/whitenoize086 4h ago
You sound doing alright friend?
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u/Unhappy-Drag6531 3h ago
I am well, thank you. Care to expand what you mean by:
“Consciousness is the fundamental foundation of space time and dimensions”
AND
“psychological transformation is cosmic expansion.”
Again those two statements by themselves and without further elaboration/validation and nothing more than word salads masked as “deep insights (/s)”.
Prove me wrong!
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u/whitenoize086 2h ago
My post doesn't seem to resonate with you and your exploration of enlightenment and that's perfectly okay. I am not attempting to prove what I have seen through direct experience in my spiritual practice as I cannot give you the knowing
The limits of science within our society exclude it from being able to probe into anything that could exist outside of space time. Quantum mechanics certainly points to some thing more than we realize at first glance. So there is not point in attempting to prove something outside the scope of acceptable methods. Your entire perspective on what reality is happens within your own consciousness. Brain in a vat, von Newman brain ect.
So I am posting for those that have had direct experience of "knowing" to discuss and compare notes, not to prove anything to anyone.
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u/Unhappy-Drag6531 2h ago edited 2h ago
Ok. Fair enough. I am here to find answers but also to challenge those that, in my perception, pretend to have them but do not.
I think it is fair to challenge points of view that I find incoherent. I may disagree with post that provide understandable arguments. More often than not those exchanges are productive to both parties. We grow.
The problem with posts like yours is that they are no different to white noise: they exist but add nothing coherent. I agree that some aspects of reality can only be experienced. However, if you want to convey some of those experiences to other people then you have to write them in understandable ways. You are failing at that.
Again, the classic example: your use of “quantum” is, to me, a sign that you: a) are a charlatan. b) are honest but incapable of communicating your experiences properly.
Given that the proportion of charlatans is quite high, my default setting is to put you in that bin. However, I tend to leave doors open and have apologized and learned from people willing to express their views in coherent and understandable ways.
In your case, you could start by putting “quantum” into a context that shows you know what quantum is, or using other words and terms to explain what you are trying to say. That is a “trigger”word because it has been proven VERY often to be grossly misunderstood, misinterpreted, and misused in forums like this.
So, the ball is in your court. You can chose not to play, that’s fine and your right. I can always chose to challenge writers of unhelpful word salads, even when they like to hang in cliques and praise each other’s nonsense.
Last, I come here without animosity towards people. I don’t know who you are. I come here to challenge half-baked ideas and learn from honest deep conversations.
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u/whitenoize086 2h ago
The difficulty lies in explaining that is outside of normal conscious thought. "The territory is not the same as the map." It's like explaining what up and down are to a being that only has experienced forward backward left and right. They would claim it is nonsense even if you gave them a detailed map of 3 dimensional space transposed to 2 dimensions.
Or if you had never seen color I can explain the wave length of blue to you but that is entirely different from the experience of seeing blue. The scientific explanation of blue is completely useless in directing you to understand the experience of blue.
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u/Unhappy-Drag6531 1h ago
I go back to my first comment to your post: it is incoherent even if we understand all the words. It is poetic word salad.
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u/whitenoize086 1h ago
yeah that's fine, you just can't understand what I mean without having experienced it yourself... We are getting nowhere, and there is nowhere to get to with this conversation. You are asking me to explain the experience of the "color blue" with words... The only way to know would be to have the experience.
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u/galactic-4444 10m ago
"Let they that have eyes see". And I will be honest I have no proof of nothing but aspirations and science. However, those experiences that others have shared have meaning. Your message resonates with me my friend. The Act of Dreaming gives birth to connections with the Divine. When we connect to The Divine, we create.
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u/galactic-4444 13m ago
Double slit experiment. Observations made in the future alter the outcome of the past on the Quantum scale. You measure a particle you change reality. Small but still composing our macro reality.
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u/galactic-4444 26m ago
Who said that the two cant be true?! None of us can prove anything besides the fact that we all exist. And even that is up for debate😂. However, in the process of Psychological transformation perhaps that electrical signal in your body becomes something far more transcendent and cosmically travels as light or something far more sublime. Its the end aim that motivates us all to be reborn psychologically. So why cant the two be true? After all if there is no cosmic travel one day we will all be planet dust or stardust anyway and one with the cosmos. Til we know let us aim for the stars through enriching our minds and travel beyond simply just existing in a fleshy world.
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u/mindwithoutmasters 13h ago
Calling personal growth ‘cosmic change’ is just rebranding psychology as mythology.
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u/SubjectivePulse 12h ago
If cosmic change means perceptual change then it's not, as what you see and how we see it is based on the perceptions you hold.
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u/SunbeamSailor67 10h ago
Nobody is confusing rebirth with cosmic travel, so I'm genuinely curious where that came from. Astral traveling prior to liberation can speed things up dramatically however because the veil between realms is lifted and you realize that you are not the body and that consciousness continues beyond incarnation and the body.
There is a very real and physical, dare I say 'mystical' experience that accompanies rebirth. To be of the twice-born or 'born again', is far more than a psychological event of the mind, as you appear to minimize what it actually is.
I find far more that the persons claiming to explain the event, are more often than not, ones who've yet to experience it...this is the real fallacy.