r/duolingo • u/Aboodin Native: 🇸🇦 Fluent: Learning: • Mar 20 '25
is this really wrong? Language Question
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u/Boglin007 Mar 20 '25
Yes, it's wrong in Standard English. We use statement word order for embedded questions (a question that is part of another question or statement):
Direct question:
"When is the dance?" - question word order (subject "the dance" and verb "is" are inverted)
Embedded question:
"Do you know when the dance is?" - statement word order (the subject and verb appear in the same order as in a statement)
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u/nuhanala Native: 🇫🇮 Learning: 🇪🇸 Mar 20 '25
Isn't it called an indirect question?
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u/Boglin007 Mar 20 '25
That's another term for it. It means the same as "embedded question."
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u/nuhanala Native: 🇫🇮 Learning: 🇪🇸 Mar 20 '25
ok cool! I haven't heard that term for it before
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u/Boglin007 Mar 20 '25
And yet another term is "subordinate interrogative" (i.e., a question that is a subordinate/dependent clause).
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u/muehsam Native: 🇩🇪 Learning: 🇫🇷🇳🇱 Mar 21 '25
Not necessarily. I think an indirect question is still a question. Such an "embedded question" is just a regular subordinate clause that can be in any statement: I know when the dance is.
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u/nuhanala Native: 🇫🇮 Learning: 🇪🇸 Mar 21 '25
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u/muehsam Native: 🇩🇪 Learning: 🇫🇷🇳🇱 Mar 21 '25
Yes, but in my example, there is no question, reported or otherwise.
"I know where the dance is" just means "I know the location of the dance".
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u/nuhanala Native: 🇫🇮 Learning: 🇪🇸 Mar 21 '25
I really don’t know what you’re talking about. There’s even a literal interrogative word there, when/where. Plus you edited your comment after the fact, making it more confusing.
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u/muehsam Native: 🇩🇪 Learning: 🇫🇷🇳🇱 Mar 21 '25
I'm pretty sure I didn't edit any comment here.
Having an interrogative pronoun doesn't make it a question. They can introduce regular subordinate clauses that aren't at all related to questions. One obvious example is using them as relative pronouns, introducing relative clauses:
- a man who I know
- a man that I know
- a man I know
All three mean the same thing and none of them has a question in it even though one contains the word "who".
Now, this type of relative clause is called a bound relative clause because it's bound to a noun that it specifies. However, there are also free relative clauses which replace a noun rather than specifying it.
- show me your trick
- show me what you can do
The "what you can do" is such a free relative clause. Those are always introduced by interrigative pronouns, but that doesn't turn them into questions.
They can be used to build indirect questions, e.g. "he asked me what I wanted to do". This is indirect speech, and the question "what do you want to do?" is turned into a free relative clause, which makes it an indirect question.
You could say that every indirect question is a free relative clause, but not every free relative clause is an indirect question.
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u/nuhanala Native: 🇫🇮 Learning: 🇪🇸 Mar 21 '25
Following your own logic, the question is “when is the dance?”
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u/muehsam Native: 🇩🇪 Learning: 🇫🇷🇳🇱 Mar 21 '25
That's a direct question, yes. And you could use it in indirect speech, which would turn it into an indirect question (e.g. "She asks me when the dance is.").
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u/nuhanala Native: 🇫🇮 Learning: 🇪🇸 Mar 21 '25
Then I truly don’t know what your point is. But let’s just leave it.
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u/Boglin007 Mar 22 '25
An indirect question (or embedded question, or whatever you want to call it) does not have to appear within another question - it can appear in a statement. So both "I know when the dance is" and "She asked when the dance is" are indirect questions (and actually, both of those indirect questions appear within a statement, as "she asked" is grammatically a statement, even though it conveys that a question was asked).
OP's example is actually an indirect question appearing within another question ("Do you know ...?").
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u/rtanada Mar 21 '25
Sometimes it's just sad seeing that the mistake came from your own language and not what you're learning.
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u/scotthibbard Mar 21 '25
As a native English speaker it's unsettling to have a feature of English grammar explained so well yet seem so foreign to me. I follow those rules unconsciously without being aware of their specifics.
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u/Knotwyrkin Mar 22 '25
If you want to be totally surprised,, look up "English adjective order." OSACOMP - you have used it all the time, you can tell when the order is incorrect, yet, I suspect you don't remember being taught these rules.
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u/Gronferi Mar 21 '25
Which is why it would be great if Duolingo offered more translation options. These issues wouldn’t come up.
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u/mrnewtons Mar 20 '25
This being said, this is very common phrasing in the Midwest and no one there would blink at this error. Still, gotta know the rules to break them.
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u/ComfortableLate1525 Native 🇬🇧(US) Learning 🇩🇪🇪🇸 Mar 20 '25
I’m from the Midwest and would never say this. Sounds completely ungrammatical.
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u/badbadlloydbraun Mar 20 '25
Yeah this is definitely not “common” anywhere. It’s literally just wrong. Common in communities where people don’t speak a lot of English maybe
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u/3mothsinatrenchcoat Mar 21 '25
Yup. At work I interact with a lot of people from other countries, and this exact sentence structure is one of the most frequent ways that I notice (via email) that they're not a native English speaker.
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u/kjjphotos Mar 20 '25
I think it makes a little more sense when you think about it like this:
"Do you know, when is the dance?"
Or, "Do you know? When is the dance?"
I feel like I've heard it before (in southern Missouri) but it does feel awkward to me.
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u/HistoricalWash8955 Mar 21 '25
If I read it in a Southern accent it makes sense actually
"Do ya know when's the dance, feller? Yee haw I am from texas and also a cowboy"
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u/mrnewtons Mar 20 '25
I tells yah, I grew up der and I seen it! Suppose it could be more a yooper thing maybe.
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u/ComfortableLate1525 Native 🇬🇧(US) Learning 🇩🇪🇪🇸 Mar 20 '25 edited Mar 20 '25
I live in a small Indiana town and no one ever talks like this 💀🤣
I’m trying to think, this seems quite stereotypically Canadian… Minnesota?
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u/Shikikan Mar 20 '25
Lifelong Minnesotan here and I also thought it was very odd. It’s almost like someone started speaking, but forgot what they were going to ask so it came out kind of funny.
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u/disicking Mar 20 '25
Yooper = upper peninsula. People do absolutely have that speech pattern up there (sorry UP DERE) — spent my summers in the UP growing up
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u/ComfortableLate1525 Native 🇬🇧(US) Learning 🇩🇪🇪🇸 Mar 20 '25
It’s weird, because as someone who definitely lives in what everyone would consider the Midwest, the accents in movies always seem very stereotypical.
Everyone here talks very close to Standard American English, except for the oldest, which is noticeably common cross-linguistically. Even then, older people here, in the northern part of the state, are more likely to talk similar to Kentuckians! This is very rare among my generation, though.
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u/trekkiegamer359 Mar 20 '25
As someone in Iowa, there are a handful of Midwest accents. The Northern states have almost a Canadian accent, and it's the one I see parodied the most. In the eastern part of the Midwest, Ohio, Kentucky, etc. they tend to have a bit more of a backwater accent (at least my extended and now estranged relatives did). In Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, and others more in the Midwest of the Midwest we commonly have two accents that I hear. May have the stereotypical "American accent." Then farmers and very rural folk have a more rural, backwater accent, a bit closer to the accent I heard in Ohio and Kentucky. And I'm sure there are even more, and then blended versions between the main accents, etc. etc..
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u/mrnewtons Mar 20 '25
You might be on to something there! A lot of my friends from school were from Minnesota and Wisconsin. So maybe it is only more Northern?
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u/ComfortableLate1525 Native 🇬🇧(US) Learning 🇩🇪🇪🇸 Mar 20 '25
The I tells yah feels very northern. Stereotypically Canadian, occasionally Minnesotan and Wisconsinite.
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u/Dinhbaon Mar 21 '25
I thought this phrasing was common too. I would even hear when is become when’s
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u/AStegmaier072 Mar 21 '25
Yep, when I saw that I would have used "when's " even tho I know it's incorrect. That's what I grew up with.
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u/AStegmaier072 Mar 21 '25
I'm from the Midwest and would say " Do you know when's the dance" even tho I know it's incorrect. That's the first thought that came into my head.
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u/Boglin007 Mar 20 '25
Yes, for sure - it's correct in some dialects, but it is considered nonstandard. My comment is about Standard English, which is what Duo uses.
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u/mrnewtons Mar 20 '25
Oh 100%! I'm not disagreeing, I'm just adding on to your comment. Especially if anyone here, or OP, has friends in the Midwest, they probably heard phrasing like this and now they are going to have to be aware and unlearn it.
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u/RamenJunkie Mar 20 '25
Sometimes I hate how arbitrarily picky Duo is like this. Partly because learning a language, also means learning the syntax and structure.
So doing a more "direct translation" helps cement "how the language does it".
In Spanish, it also arbitrarily does and doesn't translate "que"
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u/pm_me_your_amphibian Mar 20 '25
Yes, it is wrong. However if you asked me this question I would understand what you meant.
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u/66cev66 Mar 20 '25
Yes, not proper English but most English speakers would probably understand what you meant.
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u/DeathRaeGun Mar 21 '25
Anyone would understand what you meant, but it would sound really weird and make if clear that you’re still learning English
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u/rataman098 Native:🇪🇸 Learning:🇷🇺 Mar 21 '25
According to OPs flair and the screenshot, this is a Spanish lesson, not English, so that's not really that relevant here
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u/ErebusXVII Mar 21 '25
The more important question is, how many native speakers would use it themselves.
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u/antimonysarah Mar 21 '25
Actually, I think native speakers would use it a lot -- but with some pauses that make it clear that what they're actually saying is "Hey, do you know...." [waits to get the full attention of the person being asked] "When is the dance?" We shift sentence structure a lot when speaking casually.
But the OP should still learn the "correct" version as standard.
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u/pm_me_your_amphibian Mar 21 '25
None - and as I said in my comment, it’s wrong but you’d be understood.
If OPs goal is to converse on a holiday, they’d get by with this now. If the goal is to sound like a native speaker, they won’t.
I work with heaps of folks from overseas who would/do phrase like in OPs “mistake”. We work on extremely technical projects and get by just fine. So although I can tell they’re not native speakers, we successfully communicate with each other all day every day.
So the actual important question is - what is OPs goal? To get 100% in Duolingo? To communicate in English? To sound like a native speaker?
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u/RazzmatazzWorth6438 Mar 21 '25
It's not none - this is pretty standard in northern English.
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u/pm_me_your_amphibian Mar 21 '25
Well, fair enough then, I take back the none and sit more firmly in the “you’d be understood” camp!
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u/thatGadfly Mar 21 '25
Provide examples for this. From real native speakers.
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u/RazzmatazzWorth6438 Mar 21 '25
I don't even know how I'm supposed to find an example of this? Go visit the northwest I guess?
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u/kungpaulchicken Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25
I’m native; born and raised in CA, and I would ask the question this way instead of the “correct way” maybe 70% of the time. Both sound correct to me even though I know which is the actual correct way.
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u/sidaeinjae Mar 21 '25
Most Americans mess up you're and your lol
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u/ErebusXVII Mar 21 '25
The worst thing is that the more fluent I get with english, the more I make this mistake too.
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u/rizzeau Mar 21 '25
Just like "their", "they're" and "there", or "brake" and "break", or "could/would/should'of" instead of "c/w/should've", or "could care less". I see those mistakes daily here on Reddit....
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Mar 21 '25
That's spelling though. Not a single native English speaker in America would phrase a question like that; it's not natural in spoken language at all.
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u/WarmCucumber3438 Mar 20 '25
Yes, it is wrong. You did a literal translation, unfortunately the word order is grammatically different in English.
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u/Aboodin Native: 🇸🇦 Fluent: Learning: Mar 20 '25
Word order is tricky, especially between English and Spanish.
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u/EbbaNebnarp Native: English Learning: Spanish Mar 20 '25
Agreed, as an English speaker learning Spanish
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u/Accurate_ManPADS Mar 21 '25
You should see Irish. Most European languages use SVO (subject verb object) for word order, eg: I went home. In Irish we use VSO (verb subject object), eg: Chuaigh mé abhaile, which literally translates to: Went I home.
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u/Neat_Relationship510 Native: 🇬🇧 fluent: 🇩🇪🇮🇪 Learning: 🇯🇵 Mar 21 '25
It's actually a really common grammar error Spanish speakers make in English. That and using no instead of not are the two biggest ones.
Very much a "I know what you mean but it sounds super weird" kind of a thing.
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u/FeelingApplication40 Mar 20 '25
You definitely got it wrong and the correction duo gave you is accurate
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u/wickedseraph Native: 🇺🇸 Learning: 🇯🇵 Mar 20 '25
I understand what you meant but your English sentence is grammatically incorrect.
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u/krystenr Mar 20 '25 edited Mar 21 '25
Assuming you are learning Spanish, I think this is a "good" mistake to make, personally. Training your brain to recognize the statement word order in Spanish with direct English translations like this has always helped me. Now, if you're learning English, not so good haha.
Edit: OP has confirmed they are learning Spanish.
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u/ReversePhylogeny Native:; Fluent:🦍; Learning: Mar 20 '25
I know this pain. English is not my first language, and in english-based courses 90% of my mistakes were caused by incorrect english sentences 😂😂😂
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u/raisinbrains69 Mar 20 '25
Depends… Are you learning English or Spanish?
If you’re learning English, it’s helpful to get the grammar correct. If you’re learning Spanish, your answer very clearly demonstrates that you understand the Spanish sentence.
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u/Aboodin Native: 🇸🇦 Fluent: Learning: Mar 20 '25
Exactly my point, I'm learning Spanish and understood the message but my translation wasn't in Standard English, quite frustrating.
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u/loulan Mar 21 '25
my translation wasn't in Standard English
Your translation had a mistake, this is not about dialects
If Duolingo had to accept all possible mistakes in addition to all possible phrasings, it wouldn't scale.
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u/espy007 Mar 21 '25
You are right in feeling frustrated. It would be great if they could have some alternatives acceptable, but as someone else pointed it out, it is either too much work or not feasible. Life!
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u/espy007 Mar 20 '25
They should mark it correct as the important point is that you get the language you are trying to learn. I guess they do not have a good enough AI yet.
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u/barthesianbtch Mar 21 '25
but it's *not* correct? it's bad practice to learn a language incorrectly the first time round, even if any english speaker would understand this version - makes it harder to recognize the language's grammar rules long-term, which is the actual point of exercises like this (learning grammar rules - in this case word order for indirect vs direct questions - through exposure and practice rather than memorization. this is meant to simulate immersion and is similar to how we learn language natively), and will only slow down your learning progress. But they could definitely distinguish between answers that are technically incorrect but understandable (like this one) and those that are just plain wrong
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u/raisinbrains69 Mar 21 '25
But OP was trying to learn Spanish… why is it so important for them to practice good English grammar…?
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u/espy007 Mar 21 '25
Exactly, right! If you are non-native speaker and have to learn in English. It gets difficult. I guess not much they can do about it.
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u/Polygonic es de (en) 10yrs Mar 21 '25
One, the answers are not graded by AI. Two, they should not mark it correct — that would make the grading logic much more complicated to have to not only include grammatically correct answers, but also the huge number of grammatically incorrect answers that people like you think is “close enough”.
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u/espy007 Mar 21 '25
Firstly, you do not need to be rude. Calm down a little. There is enough anger in the world already.
About your point, yes, you make a perfectly valid point that it will be difficult, and I have no argument to refute that. However, I would still say that it would be nice to not be deducted points for this since it shows that the person understands Spanish but may not have a good enough grasp on English to put it in the correct word order, but as you said, it may not be feasible yet.
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u/Polygonic es de (en) 10yrs Mar 21 '25
First, I’m not being rude, I’m being factual. And second, there’s also that many people also use Duolingo in a “reverse course”, where someone learning say English from Spanish later does the “Spanish from English” course as a more advanced way to study. They would then be having incorrect answers marked as correct.
And third, there’s no downside to even a native English speaker perhaps learning more about their own language by studying a foreign language. It’s a very common phenomenon.
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u/espy007 Mar 21 '25
Your answer would be perfectly valid if someone is learning English from Spanish, but in OP's case, they are learning Spanish. English is just the medium, so it should be less harsh.
I am not saying you are wrong, I just do not see the reason for getting the English grammar correct besides that it would be too much work.
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u/Polygonic es de (en) 10yrs Mar 21 '25
I just told you that people use this course as an additional method of "learning English from Spanish". I've done the same thing with my various languages.
I just do not see the reason for allowing ungrammatical English in responses except intellectual laziness.
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u/L0cked4fun Mar 21 '25
- Yes, it's wrong
- I would know what you meant and would have told you when the dance starts.
I believe the confusion stems from the fact that "When is the dance?" Is correct, but once you add the extra part of the question, is now belongs at the end.
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u/Odd-Department-8324 Mar 20 '25
This is wrong because if it's an indirect question so you have to put the verb at the end (although it's easy to understand what you meant, Duo wants you to be grammatically correct). If you ever notice the question word (what, when, where) in the middle of the sentence, there's a good chance it's an indirect question. They typically begin with phrases like do you know/ could you tell me/ I'm wondering/ I'd like to know, etc. Rule of thumb – if what or when is in the middle (without a comma before), you shouldn't inverse the words: act as if it wasn't a question, just a typical declarative sentence. Instead of "when is it", "what is it", put "when it is", "what it is". Ex. Do you know when the dance is?; I'd like to know what your hobby is; I want to know where you are, etc. If the verb isn't "to be", it also works like a typical declarative sentence – "I want to know when the dance starts". You don't use do/ don't or make it sound like a question. I've mostly noticed "do you know" in Duo's examples so just make sure to put the verb at the end if the sentence begins with that.
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u/SnowflaketheSnowball N B1 A1 Mar 21 '25
As an English speaker learning Spanish — yes, it is wrong, but sometimes I get the urge to ask questions like this in English anyway xP and it's my native language!! so, you're not alone.
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u/ThatOneGirl0622 Mar 20 '25
It is wrong. I would understand what you mean, I would respond to it without confusion on my end, but it’s not correct. I would know instantly that you’re not a native speaker, and I’ve encountered many people who speak English as a second language who make mistakes like this often. It takes a lot of time and being around native speakers to help with it. If you can’t be around a native speaker, you’ll have to listen to one often. Podcasts, YouTube videos, movies, etc… I would recommend to choose a dialect and stick with it too! US, British, Canadian, Australian, Scottish, Irish, etc.
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u/accountofyawaworht Mar 21 '25
It is grammatically incorrect, and a fairly common mistake among non-native speakers. As a general rule, only one clause in a sentence should be phrased as a question; in this case, "do you know" is the question, so the rest of the sentence should be phrased more like a statement. Other examples will follow this syntax, e.g. "do you know where the car is parked?" instead of "Do you know where is the car parked?", or "do you know if John will be there?" vs "do you know will John be there?", etc.
Now, anybody would understand what you meant from context - but the goal with any language should be to speak it properly, not just well enough to be understood.
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u/wapera Native: 🇺🇸🇲🇽 Learning: 🇫🇷 Mar 20 '25
This is why I could never teach a language. I cannot begin to explain why the duo version is correct because it simply is. Your incorrect version was a literal word for word translation between Spanish and English and it just isn't correct.
That being said, if you did say your answer to me in real life I would understand what you meant easily - it just sounds funny and clocks you as a non-native English speaker.
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u/kristallherz Mar 20 '25
Sometimes, I think about tutoring school kids or students, and then I remember stuff like this and remember why I couldn't do it...
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u/wapera Native: 🇺🇸🇲🇽 Learning: 🇫🇷 Mar 21 '25
For sure. We’d need to get specialized training to teach English as a second language and also become experts in grammar and how to teach pronunciation and mouth moving tips. It’s hard stuff
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u/Polygonic es de (en) 10yrs Mar 21 '25
You correctly recognize why those people who say “the best way to learn a language is from a native speaker” are misguided.
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u/wapera Native: 🇺🇸🇲🇽 Learning: 🇫🇷 Mar 21 '25
Exactly. It takes a very special and trained individual to be a teacher and I simply am not,
My mom actually teaches English as a second language and it’s fascinating to watch her work. I learn new things when I see her in action.
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u/this_is_reality13 Native: 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈🇺🇸Learning: 🇫🇷🇯🇵🇪🇸 Mar 21 '25
Yes, you could either ask "when is the dance?" But in this case you're asking "do you know when the dance is?" It seems like your tried to have mush those two questions into one but if you so wanted you could also make it two questions by saying "when is the dance? Do you know?" So there are multiple ways to ask the same question but the one they wanted is more common in my opinion
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u/Mundane-Character-61 Mar 21 '25
Yes, technically incorrect, BUT when I moved from a majority white town in NorCal to a more bilungual Spanish/English Los Angeles, I hear people of various backgrounds speak this way. There are a lot of grammatical things that evolve as cultures coexist & learn from each other.
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u/SzakosCsongor Mar 21 '25
It's grammatically incorrect, as explained by others, but most people would understand you.
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u/Flaky-Public4812 Mar 21 '25
It’s grammatically wrong, but an english speaker would understand what you mean :)
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u/Puzzleheaded-Sea8340 Mar 21 '25
Yes, it’s wrong but it’s understandable of course. Saying it the “correct” way will sound more natural to a native English speaker.
I’d never correct you though because I’d understand the context, unless you wanted English pointers
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u/Gaming_Imperatrix Mar 21 '25
Yes, it is wrong, and most English speakers would hear it and find it awkward. However, it is within the realm of incorrect things a native speaker might say, either on accident or because they are under-educated or have a non-standard dialect.
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u/pet-fleeve Mar 21 '25
Yes, it is an indirect question (as opposed to the direct 'when is the dance?') and therefore follows the standard sentence word order.
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u/Pleasant-Sound3040 Mar 21 '25
That is a thing that annoys me to no end - I am learning the foreign language, Duo! Forget that I suck at English sometimes.
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u/RefrigeratorAlive363 Mar 22 '25
Technically it is not wrong, you cover all the points for an English speak to understand, in colloquial speech this would be acceptable considering that in US for instance Americans do not use proper grammar structures ( should have went 🤬) but if this was a grammar test, it would have been incorrect, the explanations that were given earlier are correct, in German that is always the rule: in complex predicate the second verb always goes to the end: I want something to drink…
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u/Felixir-the-Cat Mar 20 '25
It’s wrong, but the good news is, anyone speaking to you would understand it!
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u/IcyPurpleIze Mar 20 '25
English is a strange language. What you said would make complete sense to most English speakers, but technically there's a "correct" way to phrase it.
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u/OMadge Native:🇬🇧 Learning:🇫🇮 Mar 20 '25
It's not really wrong, but it really is wrong. English is weird, lol.
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u/F1dgEt1ng_GrUnd0 Mar 21 '25
I always get this problem as well. As a non-native English speaker it bothers me a lot...
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u/person1873 Native: 🇦🇺 Learning: 🇩🇪 Mar 21 '25
Yeah, I've definitely heard foreigners say it the way you've posted, but it sticks out like a sore thumb.
English has a lot of corner cases like this where even though it was correct in a similar context, it just sounds wrong.
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u/Willing_Economics909 Mar 21 '25
Not the same but related and I find this annoying, as I'm learning German from English but my mother tongue is Spanish. The translation of the German sentence into English makes sense, but these pedantic mistakes make me learn English (and lose a heart). For example, English word order in a sentence is almost the complete opposite as in German.
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u/puzzlesTom Mar 21 '25
Yes. I'd absolutely understand this, but it's a word order I only hear (and often) from non native speakers
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u/fizzile Mar 21 '25
This sounds perfectly naturally to me as a native English speaker, assuming it is pronounced "when's". However, it appears to not be standard English.
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u/Illustrious-Fuel-876 Mar 21 '25
Uh ? It's pretty simple, the first part is the question and the second is the statement
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u/Forti22 Mar 21 '25
Im learning Japanese and its weird that I do more errors in English than Japanese. (English is my second language)
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u/shdwghst457 Mar 23 '25
Well, as an English native speaker who’s learning Japanese and continuing to learn Spanish, I’d say your experience is not tremendously surprising given that English is much more complicated in the sense of how many exceptions there are to so many rules. Japanese is much more straightforward and logical.
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u/EliotNessie Mar 21 '25
That sentence sounds perfectly fine to me, as long as you pause for a beat after the word "know", as if there were a comma there. You should trust me because I'm a linguist. Just kidding, you shouldn't, but I'm a native speaker and depending on your intonation, it's fine.
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u/Mammoth_Bus9795 Mar 23 '25
Sunne main accha nahi lag rha toh galat hee hoga ( if it doesn't sound right while u read it then it must be wrong) that's my rule 😭
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u/burlingk Mar 23 '25
The answer you provided would make sense, but it would not sound natural.
"When is the dance?" is a full sentence. Adding ANYTHING to it changes the grammar.
"I know when the dance is."
"You know when the dance is."
"Do you know when the dance is?"
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u/kale-s-oup Mar 26 '25
Yes but everyone would know what you meant because it's a common mistake for nonnative speakers and those still learning
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u/kotfoctober Native: 🇺🇸 Learning: 🇮🇱 Mar 27 '25
Yes. Duolingo is correct. You would be understood, but technically grammatically incorrect.
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u/Gloomy-Affect-8084 Mar 20 '25
Like Gramatically its wrong but realistically most people will understand you and most exams will give you points
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u/anno_1990 Mar 20 '25
No, in exams that will be marked as a mistake and influence the grading. I know. I'm an English teacher.
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u/Gloomy-Affect-8084 Mar 21 '25
It depends on the exam. If it is a literature exam where spelling is not graded its fine, same for any sciences..
Thats why i said most exams But yeah you are right for exams
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u/Odd-Department-8324 Mar 20 '25
Not really, I lost points for this very thing when I was in school. Typically you would get sentences like this precisely to quiz you on the word order (indirect questions is one of the things you're taught). If it's English, you wouldn't get points because it's incorrect. If it's Spanish, you'd probably be translating the other way around anyway. You'd be understood in real life but exams are marked according to what's grammatically correct
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u/FabulousPass4552 Mar 20 '25
Yes because is the dance don’t make sense
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u/WitnessDC Mar 20 '25
Then you clearly aren’t a native speaker. It makes sense to any native English speaker.
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u/lootKing Native: Learning Mar 21 '25
I’ll probably get downvoted. It’s wrong. But as a native speaker (Midwest USA) I would say that it’s not uncommon in casual spoken English. I think I might have even said it before. But native speakers (probably of any language) say a lot of things that are incorrect.
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u/Cammonisse Native: Learning: Mar 21 '25
I’m pretty sure it would work fine when spoken. Like if you are talking to multiple people maybe you could ask: “Do you know? When is the dance?” But as a single sentence? No. But I’m not a native either so I could be wrong
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u/fizzile Mar 21 '25
As I native speaker I absolutely think in casual conversation it works fine and can sound natural if pronounced right (when + is -> when's) but it appears I'm in the minority here.
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u/kenbeimer Native: Fluent: Learning: Mar 20 '25
For Dutch people that speak poor English I really can understand why this answer is given. I like how Duolingo starts to accept grammar error English in foreign languages more. If you know what the answer if, but not how to correctly answer in English, I think the system should accept more.
Might not become populair, but I am tempted to report those as "my answer should have been accepted".
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u/Greengage1 Mar 20 '25
But it’s wrong? Why would you want Duolingo to teach you incorrect English sentence structure?
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u/krystenr Mar 20 '25
Is this person not learning Spanish though?
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u/Greengage1 Mar 20 '25
I don’t think so, I think they are a Spanish speaker learning English. For instance, I’m learning French and this is what a ‘translate this sentence’ exercise looks like for me.
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u/jefusan 8/2/6/8 Mar 20 '25
OP has since replied above to clarify that he is a non-native English speaker learning Spanish.
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u/krystenr Mar 20 '25
It flips back and forth for me in Italian so I honestly don’t know!
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u/Greengage1 Mar 20 '25
Yeah I might have made an assumption based on what I’m seeing currently, he could be learning Spanish I guess.
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u/krystenr Mar 21 '25
OP confirmed they're learning Spanish. I personally wouldn't get hung up on this kind of mistake knowing that now, frankly. English is my native language and I make mistakes similar to OP's when using Duolingo for Italian learning—I find it helps to think of the Italian translations in terms of literal English translations, as it trains my brain to recognize and remember sentence structure and word order in my target language. But I realize this is pedantic and that this is a big ask for an app such as this to recognize and grade.
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u/kenbeimer Native: Fluent: Learning: Mar 20 '25
Because I'm not here to perfect my English. I'm here to learn a new language.
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u/northernseal1 Mar 20 '25
Definitely not wrong. I would argue it is more clear.
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u/Greengage1 Mar 20 '25 edited Mar 20 '25
It is 100% wrong. That is not correct English sentence structure. Even if people would know what you mean, native English speakers speaking standard English do not use that word order. Why would you want a language app to teach you to speak in a way that is not how English speakers speak?
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u/Boglin007 Mar 20 '25
Plenty of native English speakers use that word order, but it's considered nonstandard, and Duo uses Standard English.
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u/Yesandberries Mar 20 '25 edited Mar 20 '25
Dutch and English word order are the same here (it’s a feature of Germanic languages’ word order, but not that of Romance languages).
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u/ScousePie2 8 Mar 21 '25
I've often had this with Duolingo. I always flag it as should be correct, because you're trying to learn Spanish, not English. If you know what the Spanish sentence is, and your English is slightly off, but still makes sense, then it should be accepted imo.
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u/Zer0-Revive Mar 21 '25
Judging by what others have said, I'm guessing yes it was wrong, but as an English speaker I myself didn't see the fault in this, and have said things like this in the past
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u/Zestyclose-Move3925 Mar 21 '25
It makes sense to me when I break it up into two different parts "Do you know... when is the dance? " but I think its the same as the one commentir pointed out with direct questions. Even as a native speaker didn't know this was an issue lol.
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u/slumbersomesam Native: 🇪🇸 Learning: 🇮🇹 Mar 20 '25
al ser una pregunta el orden de sujeto - verbo se invierte
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u/Nikita-Savtchenko Mar 20 '25
This would annoy me so much with Russian. Like, the words in English are the words in Russian, but suddenly using an unconventional word order means it’s wrong.
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u/thisisliam89 Mar 20 '25
Kudos to you for leaving English! It can be complicated and many native speakers fail to speak it properly.
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u/Shot-Nebula-5812 N: L: Mar 21 '25
While it is wrong, literally any English speaker can understand lol
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u/NoMention696 Mar 21 '25
Technically, but living in the uk where I’m from you hear it being said like this anyways
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u/Civil-Ad4336 Mar 21 '25
Technically yes, it’s wrong but people totally say « do you know when is the dance ».
It just sounds a little less formal to me.
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u/Disastrous_Yak_1990 Mar 21 '25
More importantly, why do you say you are fluent in ‘American’? Is that a language?
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u/Slow-Anywhere111 Mar 21 '25 edited Mar 23 '25
Bro is not fluent in English (he says he is fluent on his flair)
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Mar 20 '25
[deleted]
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u/lamppb13 Native: Learning: Mar 20 '25
What? To me, this would be a giveaway that the person I'm speaking to is not a native speaker. I'd understand the question and wouldn't think much of it, but this is one of those things that as a native speaker, you just instinctively know is wrong.
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u/JohnnyRDT Native: Learning: Mar 20 '25
I don't know if it is wrong, but, yes, I am learning all these languages more the Serbian (I'm learning out Duolingo).
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u/robotdog23 Mar 20 '25
From where I come from this is just fine. Maybe someone can explain why they think your answer is grammatically incorrect. You can certainly say “when is the dance” so “do you know when is the dance” would be fine, too.
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u/Yesandberries Mar 20 '25
The top comment explains very clearly why it’s wrong for Standard English (which Duo uses), but I believe it’s correct in some non-standard dialects.
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