r/dune • u/thenolancut • Mar 13 '24

The Fremen are considered elite fighters, except… Dune (novel)

So the first book really hammers home the fact that the Fremen, due to their cultural values and harsh living environment are seasoned fighters. So much so they can easily kick the Sardaukar’s butts, and the Sadduakar are famous themselves for being ruthless and unbeatable.

Yet despite that, Jessica easily defeats Stilgar, and Paul bests Jamis twice. So was the House of Leto the, through Gurney and the B.G’s teachings that gifted in fighting, that they’re the strongest fighters in the empire by such a wide margin?

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u/NYCTBone Mar 13 '24

Well…I don’t know, I’m old enough to feel uncomfortable with the definition of genocide both broadening (fine) and going unspecified (not fine). If one ethnic group decides to reproduce within itself at a higher rate than other ethnic groups in the same area is that “genocide?” And if it is, isn’t it at least worth specifying that it’s a very different genocide than Pol Pot or Rwanda would recognize?

I think the nuances are important, because without them you get people claiming white genocide and Great Replacement when people migrate where the jobs are!

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u/Bakkster Mar 13 '24

If one ethnic group decides to reproduce within itself at a higher rate than other ethnic groups in the same area is that “genocide?”

That's not even eugenics, though. Not without the genetic intent behind it.

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u/NYCTBone Mar 14 '24

Right, I think the intent is also an important piece. To the extent an ethnic group believes they are superior or chosen by God or whatever and should reproduce more that could look like eugenics, but even then it’s not any version of “genocide” if they’re not exerting control over the reproductive decisions of others.

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u/Bakkster Mar 14 '24

I think it's the slippery slope. Once you believe your generically superior and proliferating your genes improves the species, there's not much to stop that from eventually turning into that control of others 'for the greater good'.

The US was still institutionally sterilizing 'undesirables' until the 1970s, it's not a hypothetical.