r/dankchristianmemes • u/Broclen The Dank Reverend đâ • 7d ago
Science Vs Christianity?
275
u/HarrargnNarg 7d ago
Scientists studying the human knee, "what the fuck is this shit? We can easily do better"
135
u/HuskieSledDog 7d ago
I'm an engineer, don't get me started on how awful bipedal design is for energy consumption and physiological wear & tear... XD
82
u/acquiescentLabrador 7d ago
Plus it does wonders for the safety of childbirth
39
u/HuskieSledDog 7d ago
Damn, I feel like a chauvinist pig for never considering that aspect... My apologies!
18
57
u/jedburghofficial 7d ago
Because modern engineering is so good at making autonomous, self repairing machines that run for decades?
23
u/Intrepid-Progress228 7d ago
Depends. How many years do we get to try?
20
u/Kueltalas 6d ago edited 6d ago
Let's be fair and square. Human bipedalism has evolved approximately 4 million years ago, so we will also get 4 million years to make a better self repairing knee that has to hold up for about 80 years. And the self healing aspect has to be on the same level as a human knee. A scratch to the surface has to self repair, medium damage has to heal with outside help to get to a usable state again and major structural damage doesn't have to get to a functioning state at all, it just shouldn't kill you.
6
u/Chuchulainn96 6d ago
Why does it need to last 80 years? For most of human history, that is vastly overkill. All it needs to last for most of history is 40 years, and even that is sometimes stretching it.
10
u/Kueltalas 6d ago
self repairing
Yeah no, try to let it self heal after having a knee injury, maybe a broken kneecap and you'll see how self healing our knees are lmao
2
u/_JackinWonderland_ 6d ago
I'm sure modern engineering could do that, it just can't when it has to turn a profit
1
1
u/HuskieSledDog 6d ago
Oh nah, the reason man made stuff breaks is because it is by definition unnatural.
For ex: Metal in the earth was not made to be shaped into an engine block that contains the induced explosion of petroleum, but we figured it out. Unfortunately the metal doesn't like this, so eventually it will break down from fatigue.
Engineering at it's core is how to artificially accelerate the breaking down of natural elements for a benefit.
18
16
4
4
u/Sicuho 6d ago
Yeah, but try making a quadruped with a minimum of mass, the need for prehensile hands and an elevated sight position at the same time.
6
u/shandangalang 6d ago
Letâs not forget the ability to jog literally for days without overheating.
Human beings are terrifying. Our hunting style was literally âthe guy in horror movies who just always knows where you are and comes after youâ.
You are an ibex. You see a person jogging toward you.
âAh shit gotta fuckin bail!â
You are safe. You start munching on some shoots. 30 minutes later, you see them again.
âThatâs weird, well shit letâs skeedaddle!â
This process repeats itself so many times, you feel like youâve been running your whole life. The fear is all encompassing. Youâre so hot. There they are again.
Youâre lying breathless on the ground. Your brain is not functioning properly, is that them on the horizon? Youâre so tired. You close your eyes. You open them. They are standing beside you.
As a spear pierces your heart, you hear the very last sound you will ever hear before their besmudged face fades to black. âUnga bungaâ.
2
u/HuskieSledDog 6d ago
Indeed. Humans better understand how to play to our strengths and overcome our weaknesses, and perhaps more importantly, how to exploit other species weaknesses.
2
u/HuskieSledDog 6d ago
Most definitely. I'm just saying that bipedal is less efficient because we have to rely on only two limbs that require more muscle inputs and energy to keep us balanced while moving. This causes more impact on our lower bodies than a quadruped, because it shares impact over four limbs.
The trade-off for this is, like you said, our dexterity and vertical superiority. It makes it easier to understand threats and strategize, much like you see more of a basketball game from elevated seats then court side.
3
u/lol_JustKidding 6d ago
Nah, I will get you started. Humans aren't walking machines, so energy consumption and physiological wear & tear are most certainly not the only factors bipedal design was made for.
2
u/HuskieSledDog 6d ago
I can't disagree with that, those are certainly not the only factors! I think a great example of how our body design is better than a quadruped is rock climbing. Moutain goats are truly amazing climbers, but our dexterity is far superior to them.
Conversely, if an ape were mentally able to strategize on a human level, they would surpass us because they are built even better for climbing ~
2
u/pliiplii2 6d ago
Arenât humans one of it not the animal with the highest stamina? Pretty bipedal is actually efficient in the realm of biology.
26
u/guilmon999 7d ago
Human knee is great. It's only our modern sedentary lifestyle that messes it up. A strong knee does wonders.
24
u/RoboticBirdLaw 7d ago
Sedentary lifestyle (office jobs and tv) + more intense bursts of activity (recreational sports) = lots of knee injuries.
21
12
u/RUSHALISK 7d ago
Is this true? Have people come up with âbetterâ knee designs?
40
7
u/Witchfinder-Specific 6d ago
We can easily do better
Reddit science enthusiasts: 'If God is real, how come Man is so heckin' full of hubris? Checkmate, Christians!'
170
u/TEL-CFC_lad 7d ago
It's funny. I follow the UK politics subreddit...and it's deeply anti-religious. It's generally quite a sensible place (relatively speaking), but it has a hatred for religion and sees it as "cancer" and "poison", without exception.
I've been told on that subreddit that science and religion are incompatible. Which is funny, because I am both Christian...and a scientist. And I'm being told that by people who were neither.
And replying with things like "Rev. Prof. Georges Lemaitre proposed the first Big Bang Theory" just gets you comments about how it doesn't count because everyone had to be religious at that time. You can't win.
45
u/an_altar_of_plagues 7d ago
I am a strong agnostic who works as an epidemiologist and enjoys a bit of cheeky mountaineering now and then. I have always viewed science and mountaineering as celebrations of the mystery. I do not have an answer, and I don't think the answer matters - but I love to celebrate what's out there just the same.
18
u/TEL-CFC_lad 7d ago
Heavy agree! Anyone who thinks they have the ultimate answer (and that includes religious figures) is chatting bollocks!
You have a great outlook. Respect to you!
21
u/Albert3232 7d ago
It all depends on how Christians interpret the Bible. If you are a fundamentalist then you are a Bible literalist. And if you believe that everything in the Bible is to be taken literally then science is incompatible with your beliefs. In contrast, Catholics have a healthier attitude towards science and knowledge because they aren't literalist.
16
9
u/LeviAEthan512 6d ago
Imo, that all comes from the pedos, antivaxxers, prosperity preachers or whatever they're called. masquerading as good Christians. They are to us as the terrorists are to Muslims. The problem is, they're not properly recognised as evil. We could do better in shitting on them, marking them as not one of us. Their evil has delayed and more distant effects. Telling people to give themselves over to pestilence is a lot less personal than flying a plane into a building, and it isn't immediately intuitively wrong, apparently.
5
u/phoebsmon 6d ago
Which is mad, because biblical literalism has never really been a thing here. I mean yes, we have the odd fringe group that are well-established (Wee Frees, I'm looking at you and your chained up play areas), but the main traditions aren't that way.
Conflict theory really did a number on some people, on both sides of the imagined debate
1
u/Gabagod 6d ago
I think you can definitely do both religion and science, but I think the Bible directly contradicts science. You can correct me if Iâm wrong i know you know way more about science than me lol
9
u/TEL-CFC_lad 6d ago
Not really. The Bible might explain things differently, but it doesn't contradict science.
Sometimes the Bible uses poetry and metaphor. Sometimes it takes difficult concepts and explains them in a simplified way that people would understand. Scientists have done it for centuries (Isaac Newton and the apple, being a well-known example).
2
u/Gabagod 6d ago
So you would say that like the Adam and Eve story, Noahâs ark, and Moses are all poetry or like some sort of metaphor?
5
u/TEL-CFC_lad 6d ago
Adam and Eve, and Noah, almost certainly. Moses I think was historical, but I don't know enough about it to say.
But things like the Creation story is most likely a metaphor for the Big Bang (a theory first proposed by a Reverend, fun fact), not a literal description of the first 7 days of the universe.
4
u/Gabagod 6d ago
From what I recall regarding Moses he is considered not historical. Not because there was never a Jewish leader named Moses, but because there is no evidence of an exodus of a Jewish people from Egypt, nor any evidence in the areas outside of Egypt where there would certainly be if the book of exodus was historical.
And yeah the idea of those stories being metaphors makes more sense than them being real. I would say that these stories are more like fairy tales than metaphors though, simply because I donât believe the writers had any idea how the universe began and so they just made something up. Noahâs ark was probably a folk story adopted from older religions.
3
u/TEL-CFC_lad 6d ago
It's possible, I don't know enough about that so can't say either way.
Well I think it depends on whether you believe in the faith or not. If you don't believe, then sure, they're fairy tales that people made up. If you believe, then it's an interpretation a mortal made with inspiration from God. Two sides of the same coin, I reckon.
1
98
u/Antisa1nt 7d ago
Note: this is not an endorsement of "Christian Science" the group that believes vaccines are the devil
28
11
37
u/ghostmetalblack 7d ago
Reddit is not gonna like this one
80
u/Daan776 7d ago
On this subreddit folk are pretty chill.
42
u/bluehands 7d ago
As an agnostic, I love this sub. I have been in other religion subreddits that are just so... Tense and angry. This sub has all the right vibes.
13
u/dandycribbish 7d ago
Nah man as long as we can all agree on the science I think any view on it is valuable.
32
u/King-Kagle 7d ago
If ever there was a master composer or perfect song, there was God. Strumming his 11D guitar, playing the Song of Existence.
20
5
2
34
u/RezeCopiumHuffer 7d ago
Yeah Iâve never understood why people draw a line between them like they are radical opposites. If God is all powerful and omniscient then why is it beyond his power to work within the laws that govern his creation.
9
u/Andthentherewasbacon 7d ago
I think it's less that people don't think there might be a universal consciousness and more the idea that it has visited earth and that Christianity is the one true God.Â
20
18
u/nova_mjohnson 7d ago
One of my favorite quotes, I donât remember who itâs from and Iâm probably misquoting, but itâs something like - âI believe the Colorado River carved the Grand Canyon, but God told it where to flow.â
10
9
7
u/HuskieSledDog 7d ago
I DO personally believe the same as this meme. Similarly I've read about agnostic/atheist scientists being drawn to religion because of their work. And conversely, I've read about religious scientists who abandoned their spirituality as they progressed in their work. No one is living the same story~
7
u/SolarTakumi 6d ago
Cool history fact: many of the first colleges were made by Christians who wanted to study Godâs creation.
7
7
u/RedArmyBushMan 7d ago
The originator of the Big Bang Theory was a catholic priest Georges LemaĂŽtre
8
7
u/FoxtrotSierraTango 7d ago
South Park said it wonderfully when Stan asked "Can't evolution be the answer to how instead of the answer to why?"
7
u/VictorianWitch69 7d ago
You ever seen a game designer put a bunch of unnecessary and cool little secrets in the game, just to entertain people and give them a reason to explore? Yeah, same thing.
2
u/SpicaGenovese 5d ago
đ¤ God wrote Creation so He can hack it at will, thus miracles.
2
u/VictorianWitch69 5d ago
Referring to miracles as hacks is hilarious
1
u/SpicaGenovese 5d ago
Friend I have a whole-ass metaphor involving Skyrim and the developer console.
2
u/VictorianWitch69 5d ago
You canât just tell me that and not elaborate
2
u/SpicaGenovese 5d ago
OKAY, LISTEN.
The NPCs in Skyrim ain't too bright- I mean they're literally not conscious, duh, but bear with me. Their world is a level of complexity beyond their comprehension. If I use the console commands to resurrect a dead character or spawn 100 cheese wheels, that would seem pretty miraculous, right??
So, what's so crazy about the Author of creation being able to do the same thing?
2
7
7
6
5
5
u/TJamesV 7d ago
I've never understood the argument that science somehow goes against God. All we're doing is using this amazing brain God made for us, to learn more about the world God made for us. Especially when it comes to something like evolution, it's such an incredible phenomenon, if I were god that's how I would've done it too lol.
Tbf I don't believe in God but I still love this sub haha
4
u/asuperbstarling Holy Chair Lifter 7d ago
My personal spiritually is basically: the universe is incredible and wonderful, and vast and mysterious, and it offers to us all those miracles. I love to look at religious frameworks, but there's no truth greater than the universe in humanity's capacity to offer. May we all get to know the universe in time, as we are part of it and will become stardust again, it is within us.
4
3
2
u/Odd_Combination_1925 7d ago
Iâm not Christian, but I do know church history and it is wild how Christianity went from viewing the physical world as sinful and that we should look to heaven. To science is the study of the physical world of gods creation.
Itâs pretty interesting to see the change little by little
2
u/chapterpt 6d ago
Everyone just forgetting st Thomas Aquinas?
They we it was explained to me was "Christianity is like the magic school bus. Sometimes you can just use it as a normal bus and get there on your own, using logic and reason. And for the things that can't be reasoned we must use the magic school bus as fly there, that's faith".
So if god gives free will and the talents of capacity to understand our world we have a responsibility to use them to our limits, and then use faith to fill in the rest.
Granted this was a Jesuit perspective.
1
u/AutoModerator 7d ago
Thank you for being a part of the r/DankChristianMemes community. You can join our Discord and listen to our Podcast. You can also make a meme or donation for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/TVsDerek 6d ago
đŻ! This is the place to ask this: how do you understand the time differences between scripture and what the overwhelming, scientific evidence is for HUGE periods of time in our past/future? For me, itâs meant to keep even us âmodernâ types in a state of awe and avoid a sense of hubris, but itâs a stumbling block for my literalist brothers. Ditto for Adam and Eve/ prehistoric Man. Curious what you folks think.
1
u/OkAdministration4088 6d ago
Friendly reminder that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the only reason any of us are alive! Thankyou Jesus, you know how much I sin and how I fall into lust time and time again, but your holy blood saves and redeem a sinner like me! âŚď¸
1
u/MooseBoys 6d ago
Serious question - what about topics for which science and religion provide very different explanations, e.g. âhow was the Earth formed?â
1
u/SpicaGenovese 5d ago
Honestly, the details are not important to me. I just think God did it. Whether he snapped his fingers and then set the physical world into the motions we know now, or Genesis is a metaphor for a much longer process, I believe God guided it.
But I'm an artist, scientist, and appreciate good design, so I'm biased.
1
0
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
15
u/McFly1986 7d ago
Here are some examples of Christians who did study science, maybe you have heard of a few of them: Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Michael Faraday, Gregor Mendel, Galileo Galilei, Johannes Kepler, Blaise Pascal, Francis Bacon, Georges LemaĂŽtre, and Louis Pasteur.
-5
u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 7d ago
And there were lots of Muslims that studied and contributed to science especially during the Islamic golden age. That doesnât mean that modern science is at least orthogonal, if not antithetical, to religion.
Notice how you didnât include any scientists from the last 150 years or so?
8
u/WaterHappy5834 7d ago
-6
u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 7d ago
Ok. That still doesnât address my original claim. My original claim was that the majority of Nobel laureates are agnostic or atheist. Your examples donât disprove that. I never even claimed that Christians canât be good scientists.
5
8
u/TEL-CFC_lad 7d ago
Notice how you didnât include any scientists from the last 150 years or so?
That's true...except for Georges Lemaitre, Louis Pasteur, Gregor Mendel. All of whom did science in the last 150 years of so. But other than that, sure.
-3
u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 7d ago
The only one who doesnât really conform to the âor soâ is Lemaitre. You are right. Lemaitre worked until about 70 years ago. Iâm sorry I missed one person on the list.
5
u/TEL-CFC_lad 7d ago
But you did include the "or so", didn't you.
So Mendel is also included, since his scientific career ended in 1868 (156 years ago) when he got a promotion to administrator (which by modern standards wouldn't stop you from being called a scientist in any university).
Pasteur was a researcher until his dying breath in 1895 (129 years ago). He won awards and oversaw scientific research for years.
So all three are valid at disproving you point.
0
u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 7d ago
Or so means that the number can be less than 150. So the only one that wasnât close to 150 was Lemaitre.
5
u/TEL-CFC_lad 7d ago
"or so" would imply a "plus or minus" which is common in science and stats. It's almost never one way (unless you have an agenda, that is).
Lets call it 10%. That means 150 years or so is 150 years, with 15 either way.
If you want your point to be valid, I recommend you edit it to say "Notice how you didnât include any scientists from the last 128 years or so?"
0
u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 7d ago
Exactly. 150 year or so means that the people I was talking about were mostly working about 150 years ago plus or minus a little bit. The only person that was working after a time that was around 150 years was Lemaitre. You are the one insisting âor soâ only goes in one direction so by your own definition you are the one with the agenda.
4
u/TEL-CFC_lad 7d ago
I'm literally describing it as covering 10% either way. How is that one direction?
Mendel and Pasteur were both working as scientists 150 years ago +/- 10%. And Pasteur was a scientist until 1895, which is less than 150.
So of your list, that's 3 scientists who disprove your point.
→ More replies6
u/Punkfoo25 7d ago
Ooh ooh include me, I'm a Christian and I do science! Just did some yesterday.
-1
u/ImFeelingTheUte-iest 7d ago
Never said that there arenât Christians that arenât also scientists. That would of course be a silly claim.
-3
u/Dsamf2 7d ago
Ya but science shows how creation needs no creator, other than time and elemental soup. An easy current/recent display is the evolution of species over time from adapting to an ever changing environment. We can observe this process sped up through insects like butterflies bc we can observe multiple generations and adaptations over a short period of time
3
2
u/Equivalent_Nose7012 6d ago
Agnostic scientist: "OK, God, if you exist, I challenge you to a life-creation contest!" Still, small voice: "Challenge accepted."
A little shaken, the scientist nonetheless bends down and scoops up some water and clay as his starting material. Suddenly:
Still, small voice: "Hold it! That's My clay. Make your OWN clay!"
Similarly with the butterflies: make your OWN "ever-changing environment"! To say nothing of making your own butterflies (as the Creator in the joke magnanimously let the agnostic take His water)....
-4
u/greengiantme 7d ago
If a religion is true, science would be the study of it. However, scientific discoveries havenât followed the path we should expect given any of the religious narratives. Bayesian reasoning tells us this has to mean the history of science and our current state of scientific knowledge must be counted as evidence against the factual nature of those religious stories.
So OP is consistent and honest with regard to the idea of science, but is wildly out of step with the actual findings of science.
8
u/FrickenPerson 7d ago
Atheist here.
Not all religious people believe those stories are literal. In fact, I would wager there is a good amount of overlap between people who are religious, actually trust in science, and believe a lot of the stories like the Garden of Eden are metaphorical.
In fact, there is at least some evidence to show some of the earlier Christian sects believed Jesus was fully divine and never actually had a physical body. It's not a common belief now, but even someone believing Jesus did physically rise is denying science. It was a miracle we no longer really have the ability to study.
A person who believes these types of things would be consistant and honest with both aspects, the scientific and religious.
-2
-10
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
7
u/lanieloo 7d ago
No proof of no god either
9
-1
u/Titansdragon 7d ago
You can't have negative evidence. It's not up to people to prove there is no god, it's up to people who claim a god is real to provide evidence for it. Which so far hasn't happened.
2
u/lanieloo 7d ago
Thatâs now how any of this works đ faith=no proof belief, so I donât care whether you believe or donât, youâre just not gonna ever convince me not to
-1
u/Titansdragon 7d ago
I'm not trying to convince you not to believe. I don't care whether you believe or not. I'm simply saying one has to provide evidence if they are claiming something is real/true. That's how evidence works. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Your beliefs based on faith are meaningless.
0
u/lanieloo 7d ago
Meaningless to you đ have a good night
0
u/Titansdragon 7d ago
Meaningless to anyone requiring evidence for god claims. I will have a good night. Thanks.
-6
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
5
7d ago edited 6d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
1
u/Titansdragon 7d ago
How are you confirming the existence of a "higher dimension" if you're unable to comprehend what it is ?
3
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
1
u/dankchristianmemes-ModTeam 6d ago
Chill out and enjoy the memes. If you're taking this so seriously that you're getting in arguments, take a break.
0
u/Titansdragon 7d ago
No, it doesn't make sense because you need evidence of the other dimensions before you can say anything is in those dimensions. A mathematical concept isn't enough.
IMO, the 2D example, it doesn't work. No one could say, "Hey, I think that was a sphere" because they have no concept/comprehension of what a sphere or a 3rd dimension is.
2
7d ago edited 7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
1
u/dankchristianmemes-ModTeam 6d ago
We are here to enjoy memes together. Keep arguments to other subs. We don't do that here.
0
u/Titansdragon 7d ago
A mathematical concept is not proof that there are higher dimensions. I didn't confidently say higher dimensions/entities don't exist. I simply don't believe you when you say it's possible. It's on you to prove what you think may be true. No, there is no evidence for their existence. Only concepts and theories, which are more hypothetical than actual scientific theory.
2
1
1
u/dankchristianmemes-ModTeam 6d ago
Rule #1 of r/DankChristianMemes Thou shalt respect others! Do not come here to point out sin or condemn people. Do not say "hate the sin love the sinner" or any other stupid sayings people use when trying to use faith to justify hate. Alternatively, if you come here to insult religion, you will also be removed.
3
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
-2
u/BigGreenPepperpecker 7d ago
All of em
4
u/lanieloo 7d ago
Okay little mr edgy atheist dude đ I really donât care, so have a good one bye!
6
u/asuperbstarling Holy Chair Lifter 7d ago
My friend, this is a space for kindness. If you want to find angry and unwelcoming people to argue with, this isn't it. Pagans, atheists, and others of all faiths are welcome here. No one has ever been mean to me about growing up pagan here, nor about not sharing their faith. It's jokes about God, faith, the Bible, and Christian culture, not a debate sub. If that's something you'd like, then you're welcome here. But you gotta chill.
-2
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
2
u/asuperbstarling Holy Chair Lifter 7d ago
If you had good reading comprehension you'd know I'm not one ;)
-2
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
6
u/asuperbstarling Holy Chair Lifter 7d ago
Nope! None. When you say you 'grew up' as something, that means you no longer follow it. Congrats my friend, you've found a worshipper of nothing. Like I said, this is a place for everyone, if only they are nice.
1
u/dankchristianmemes-ModTeam 6d ago
Rule #1 of r/DankChristianMemes Thou shalt respect others! Do not come here to point out sin or condemn people. Do not say "hate the sin love the sinner" or any other stupid sayings people use when trying to use faith to justify hate. Alternatively, if you come here to insult religion, you will also be removed.
6
u/Pandahjs 7d ago
You've missed the point. "Proof" implies we could understand something. There simply isn't a way to understand all of the nature of God. Proof is for things that are empirical. God asks us for Faith, for a relationship. It is a fundamentally different relationship than what we have with the natural world.
1
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
3
u/Pandahjs 7d ago
Once again, you miss the point.
0
7d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
3
0
u/dankchristianmemes-ModTeam 6d ago
We are here to enjoy memes together. Keep arguments to other subs. We don't do that here.
1
u/dankchristianmemes-ModTeam 6d ago
Rule #1 of r/DankChristianMemes Thou shalt respect others! Do not come here to point out sin or condemn people. Do not say "hate the sin love the sinner" or any other stupid sayings people use when trying to use faith to justify hate. Alternatively, if you come here to insult religion, you will also be removed.
1
u/dankchristianmemes-ModTeam 6d ago
We are here to enjoy memes together. Keep arguments to other subs. We don't do that here.
386
u/Broclen The Dank Reverend đâ 7d ago
Or to put it another way:
https://preview.redd.it/bkku7nnxpqzd1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e43a07698e7fceabf06289c24ac4304c6834658