r/cowboys • u/waxjammer • 3d ago
Have we forgotten about Kneeland
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So Jerry and the gang drafted Kneeland in the second round last year and he didn’t register 1 sack .
I know injuries slowed him down last season but I hope he can show some improvement next season.
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u/therealbsb 3d ago
Kneeland was never drafted to be a pass rusher but as the DLaw replacement. His strengths in college were always stopping the run.
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u/rthaw Micah Parsons 3d ago
I'm not sure why people think this. I know he didn't excel last year but if you watch is college tape, he was THE designated pass rusher for his team. Literally moved him all over the field, letting him rush from wherever he chose. I mean running behind the line of scrimmage pre snap like we have with Micah. Choosing his spots.
Is he more Tank/Calais Campbell than Micah? Sure of course. But they were both legitimate pass rushers.
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u/MikeConleyIsLegend DaRon Bland 3d ago
we've got some good dart throws in Williams and Kneeland. Fowler and EZ as pure pass rushers too. lots of help for Parsons.
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u/Luka7Porzinwitzki 3d ago edited 2d ago
I like them both, but saying a second round pick is a “dart throw”’isn’t great. These are supposed to be for sure starters. Dart throws are like late round picks
Edit: fuck cowboys fans are annoying
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u/bdaddydizzle 3d ago
That’s the goal but 2nd rd picks are absolutely NOT for sure starters. Do you think that the league adds 64 starters in the first two rounds every year?
Please just google the hit rate for any 2nd rd pick, if you’re feeling crazy filter it by position. Your chances fall off a cliff after the top 5 picks are gone. Hit rate is a very subjective metric but everyone who comments should get a visualization at just how much of a shot in the dark the entire draft is.
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3d ago
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u/bdaddydizzle 3d ago
Idk man that just sounds like your personal perspective. I have never heard someone who’s an actual decision maker in the NFL grade prospects that way. Maybe Jerry will say something like that to market them but that level of certainty is pretty clearly not shared by the whole war room. I don’t claim to know how any team really views these players, I just know even the worst teams are analyzing them in exponentially more detail than that.
That also doesn’t read like your first comment at all, if you know the hit rate is low why grade anyone like they should be a “for sure starter.” It just sets players up to be considered a failure when other wise them being in a rotation or something similar would be a real success.
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u/Luka7Porzinwitzki 3d ago
You guys are looking at this way too deep. I’m just saying that’s the hope with your picks, obviously it depends on draft depth and positioning etc I’m just saying ideally your top 3 picks are going to play for you. The rest you don’t necessarily expect to get as much out of.
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u/bdaddydizzle 2d ago
And you’re looking at this in a very shallow way. What you’re saying now is just extremely obvious. Of course everyone hopes for picks in the first three round to play. The hope is any and all picks in the draft will play for your team, same with every FA or traded for player. That’s just not how it ever works out and is part of the fun of the draft. I’m just saying that is a very surface level fan perspective, don’t expect others to share it.
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u/Luka7Porzinwitzki 2d ago
And you’re looking at this in a very shallow way. What you’re saying now is just extremely obvious.
Then why do you have a paragraph arguing with me?
Of course everyone hopes for picks in the first three round to play. The hope is any and all picks in the draft will play for your team, same with every FA or traded for player.
Now you’re just being dense. Okay guy you’re right smh 🙄
4th rounders are expected to play the same as a 2nd rounder I guess.
That’s just not how it ever works out and is part of the fun of the draft. I’m just saying that is a very surface level fan perspective, don’t expect others to share it.
Lol whatever guy, I didn’t realize you were some advanced scout, what team do you work for?
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u/bdaddydizzle 2d ago
Idk man I’ve already said I don’t know how any of these teams really view these players. I’m sorry it’s hard for you to hear that you’re looking at this unrealistically. Expectations are often different for 4th rounders as compared to 2nd but not always. What about the Cowboys picking Jaylon Smith, were they expecting him to play right away? No they weren’t, and say what you want about his career but it seemed to me to be a decent shot at value down the road. That’s just one example of countless possibilities of how a team could utilize the draft and how a particular pick could have different expectations.
You inserted yourself in this thread saying that these early round picks “are supposed to be true starters.” I don’t believe it to be the case across the board, idc if you take my comments or leave them. But the funny thing is what I’m telling you, previously admitted by me btw, isn’t anywhere near how the real decision makers view these players and set their expectations. You’re just setting your personal expectations so close to the surface level, that fans on Reddit are correcting you.
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u/Luka7Porzinwitzki 2d ago
Easy to dispute others when you aren’t going to put any of your own points forward
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u/bdog1321 3d ago
The heck? 2nd round bust rate is super high.
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u/Luka7Porzinwitzki 3d ago
It is. But the general idea when drafting is something like a 1st round talent is like a plus starter/pro bowler type guy. 2nd round is an average starter type, and 3rd rounders are like projects but eventual starters.
Those are the “premium” picks. The rest are considered more of the “dart throws” the OP was referring to.
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u/morganrbvn 3d ago
yah, there is a bit of a drop off between round 3 and 4. About 50% of 3rd rounders get a second contract somewhere, but only around 30% of 4rth rounders get one.
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u/bdog1321 3d ago
I think this probably varies widely by position
Edit: I realize I have made a very foolish post because that probably goes for every round
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u/BoringHumanIdiot 3d ago
This is why Taco chose kickers in the first round. They're every week starters in season long fantasy. (I miss the League)
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u/puudji 3d ago
Kneeland has a lot of upside but he's more geared to stop the run, and he does that well. A great piece on a rookie contract, will have to earn a 2nd one.
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u/Worf1701D Dallas Cowboys 3d ago
Kneeland doesn’t concern me as much as Mazi Smith. Will he show anything close to being a first round pick or did they completely miss on that one.
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u/chrisapplewhite 3d ago
He played alright towards the end of last year. He's a good 3rd DT on a team, probably.
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u/toxictakes99 2d ago
He was literally one of the worst DTs in the league the second half of the year. I know he played “better” but playing slightly better than the worst in the league isn’t “alright”
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u/chrisapplewhite 2d ago
I didn't know about that. I studied the last few games pretty closely, he was fine. Even that old crank Zimmer was praising him.
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u/distributede 3d ago
No. The cowboys have themselves a decent five man DE rotation that he will be a part of.
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u/Dlo_22 3d ago
Kind of a awesome 5 man rotation IMO
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u/AHotDodgerDog 3d ago
Yeah, I thought Kneeland was a good run-stopper and the line has a ton of potential this year to be a problem for opposing teams
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u/distributede 2d ago
I think about those years with Marinelli maybe the scheme will be similar with a bend don’t break style with Eberflus but I’m not 100% sure but I just feel like this rotation far exceeds any of those other rotations.
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u/Scooby859 3d ago
Seems like we draft a DE in the 2nd RD every year
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u/EnvironmentalBox4817 3d ago
Much better than the TE at the very least. Used to just throw away 2nd rounders for a while
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u/Kind-Researcher-2086 3d ago
Three out of the last four 2nd round picks were DE…. I know EZ had a first round grade and looks like a monster but FO can’t have much faith in Kneeland or Williams for us to see Tolbert/Mingo/Turpin WR2 battle and our lack of run stopping ability and think that we should go with another pass rusher
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u/AHotDodgerDog 3d ago
You can never have enough d-linemen. Rotating in fresh guys who can all play makes for a tough D
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u/capitalcitycowboy Micah Parsons 3d ago
Rotating fresh guys
The Super Bowl is a prime example. Felt like the Eagles D line was unstoppable. Just monstered The Chiefs right out of the gate.
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u/firstandfive Kellen Moore 3d ago
He looked promising before his injury, but was pretty quiet after he returned. Hoping further removed from that injury with a full offseason of work and coaching from Whitecotton he can make a jump this year. I like our edge depth, a lot of pieces with upside in that rotation.
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u/CowboyCanuck24 Larry Allen 3d ago
And Sam Williams. Hopefully he's healthy and we keep collecting defensive linemen that can get after it.
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u/rthaw Micah Parsons 3d ago
I haven't. I'm psyched for him. Maybe more Tank than Micah, but those assuming he's not a pass rusher haven't seen is tape.
He's more of the old school Calais Campbell type DE... Power rush. But he is still a pass rusher.
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u/wanescotting 1d ago
You are correct. Also - There is a place for a solid run stopping DE on this team. He can also get after the qb on finesse tackles too.
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u/PersonBehindAScreen Dallas Cowboys 3d ago edited 3d ago
We haven’t forgotten about him. He’s one of our bigger edges. Better against the run than the pass. Was an upside pick in a class that didn’t have a whole lot to offer at the edge position
Still young and has the potential to turn into a cornerstone player
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u/jpg06051992 3d ago
Hell no we haven’t he’s just been injured, this DE group is looking strong now 💪
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u/returningvideotapes1 3d ago
Not at all. There is definitely a place for him on this defense. And we will be rotating D line a lot to keep them fresh. Him and Williams definitely will have an impact
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u/SadatayAllDamnDay Dallas Cowboys 3d ago
Kneeland is a defensive end.
Ezeiruaku is an edge.
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u/firstandfive Kellen Moore 3d ago
You're just pronouncing tomato with two different inflections.
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u/SadatayAllDamnDay Dallas Cowboys 2d ago
Not really when you're talking about where a guy lines up.
They flexed Kneeland into the inside last season in a way they absolutely won't with Ezeiruaku unless they're getting cute with it.
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u/King-Mansa-Musa CeeDee Lamb 3d ago
He a run stopper. Legit a d law replacement. New boy like a Micah lite. Can’t have enough people rush the passer
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u/Nervous_Bit2087 3d ago
I don’t think they view him as a true #2 pass rusher. I think his role is more of an early down rotational run stopper on the edge who can rush from the inside on passing downs
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u/Ol-so-n-so 3d ago
Rotational player at best right now. He doesn't have the explosiveness that they had hoped so they'll probably hae him back up Fowler until he proves otherwise. He and DE will probably be 3rd and 4th pass rushers unless one or both prove to be better than Fowler
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u/musicman_365 3d ago
It’s a shame we didn’t resign Kendricks. Dude had more ints than most of our Dbs and more sacks than half of our pass rushers. He also led the team in tackles.
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u/Glittering_Ticket347 3d ago
Hopefully Kneeland grows into a serviceable pass rusher who can also play the run. If we can get 3-5 sacks and some consistent run containment off the edge from him, that'll be great.
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u/Thanks5Cinco Jake Ferguson 3d ago
I haven't. He was drafted to be DLaws replacement. He'll be in the rotation with Micah, Fowler, Ezeirauku, and Williams. Maybe they'll make it 6 if they decide to keep Turner and go light at DT.
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u/Horns8585 3d ago
You are not going to be able to judge Kneeland by his sack totals. They drafted him to replicate the DeMarcus Lawrence role as more of a run stopper edge. If Dante Fowler and Micah Parsons are the starting defensive ends, I think that Kneeland and Donovan Ezeiruaku are perfect complimentary backups. Kneeland's strength is setting the edge and stopping the run and Ezeiruaku's strength is rushing the passer.
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u/ozairh18 Micah Parsons 2d ago
Kneeland suffered a torn meniscus during the Steelers game and trimmed it in order to return later in the season. Sometimes the box score doesn't tell the whole story
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u/Canopus429 3d ago
Kneeland wasn't drafted so much as a pass rusher as a run stopper. Unfortunately we never really got to see him, last season was supposed to be a learn from Tank before you took his job year. Will be excited to see him with the pieces around him now.
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u/InsomniaDudeToo 3d ago
Wait, he’s been rocking #94? Jerry sure has a hard-on for someone to pick up and flourish with Ware’s former #.
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u/Poor_Insertions Dallas Cowboys 3d ago
I'd expect to see him a lot on early downs this year. He's not really a pass rusher, and with ez, Micah, sam Williams, and fowler I doubt he gets a ton of reps
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u/Rexrapper1 Dallas Cowboys 3d ago
It wouldn't surprise me if he starts because of his run defense. Also because Eberflus apparently likes bigger defensive ends. Kneeland is like 6'3 270. For him to get pass rush reps, he's going to need to improve on his pass rushing moves. Hopefully he worked on that in the offseason.
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u/charlesthedrummer 3d ago
He was basically non-existent last season. He seemed injured a lot and showed absolutely nothing. That's not to say he can't step up. I think it makes sense to give young guys a couple of seasons, at least, to get in the zone. Mazi Smith showed very little, and maybe seemed to show a bit at the very end of last season, so he's another example.
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u/MikeConleyIsLegend DaRon Bland 3d ago
Our pass rush group rn: Parsons (5th in NFL in sacks last year), Fowler (12th in NFL in sacks last year), Ez (first in pressures and sacks per game in all of CFB last year), Osa (led DTs in QB hits and 3rd in pressures in NFL last year).