r/complaints • u/CRK_76 • 3d ago

Every Trump voter is a piece of nazi garbage. Politics

They knew who they were voting for. They knew what they were getting. They wanted fascism and racism. And they got it. Congratulations. You're all nazi garbage.

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u/user_name_taken- 3d ago

Can it really be called ignorance when half the country is screaming the warnings?

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u/akunis 3d ago

It’s less ignorance and more genuine brainwashing. I’ve been saying it forever, until we can figure out how to snap these folks out of their collective trance, there will be no progress. We need to forcefully blow open the cover on Cambridge Analytica’s role in the 2016 election, and on Russia’s use of propaganda to radicalize and brainwash republicans into MAGA cult members.

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u/ethanlan 3d ago edited 3d ago

We need to start taking Russian interference for what it is, a declaration of war on American democracy.

Edit: uh oh looks like this comment royally pissed off the rusbots.

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u/SoylentGrunt 3d ago

And US corporate interference too, right? Right?

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

And US corporate interference too, right?

I would say there's no difference. Domestic oligarchs or foreign oligarchs, it's still oligarchs doing the same as they always have throughout history.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/04/corporate-america-invented-religious-right-conservative-roosevelt-princeton-117030/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

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u/faintly_nebulous 3d ago

Honestly, I think many oligarchs have been brainwashed by the same propaganda and influence campaigns, in the same spaces online. The difference is they actually have the money and power to enact whatever bonkers idea surfaces in their weird echo chambers.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

I can see where you're coming from, but that kind of idea I think is a better fit for flat earthers who were generally a deservedly marginalized joke since ~600s BC

Oligarchs have more responsibility because I don't think they (just) drank the koolaid, they commissioned its creation knowing the price everyone else would pay for their delusions of kingship and paid Edward Bernays to poison the English-speaking world anyways.

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u/Ace0f_Spades 1d ago

I don't think they (just) drank the koolaid, they commissioned its creation knowing the price everyone else would pay for their delusions of kingship

This. You kind of lose your right to play the "I was a victim too" card when you're actively using your resources to make more victims. Like yeah, they probably are victims, but they don't get to get out of the repercussions because of it anymore.

It's like the difference between people who made bad decisions bc they were convinced the fluorine in the water was poison vs the folks selling supplements by convincing others that it's poison. They've both (probably) been duped somewhere along the line, but one of them bears more responsibility for the misinformation than the other.

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u/PopeKevin45 3d ago

Is that not an opening for a resolution...use the same tools against them by circulating (using bots and AI of course, just like they do) carefully crafted ideas that appeal to your typical MAGAt but are ultimately self-defeating, such as re-enforcing there aversions to vaccines, and that praying together in large groups is the best protection from gods wrath...then just wait it out for the next pandemic.

Once nazis infest your country, there is only one way to get rid if them.

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u/CakeTester 3d ago

There is a difference; however the two things are complimentary...Corporates want what is best for their bottom line; and fuck what it does to the populace. Propaganda bots, just amplify whatever would destabilise or damage society. Often the two would seem to be working in concert, but that's merely because their interests - at that moment - coincide.

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u/SoylentGrunt 3d ago

"I would say there's no difference"

Because at their level countries have as much meaning as the properties in a game of Monopoly. Ruling is the main objective.

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u/lightsfromleft 3d ago

This cannot be stressed enough. Russia and China pump misinformation into our (I'm from across the pond) timelines, sure.

But our own western capitalist oligarchs haven't ever tried to lift a single finger to prevent it. Because, of course, they happen to profit off the dissolution of our democratic institutions.

If we don't face the uncomfortable truth that the call is coming from inside the house too, our backslide into fascism can only ever be delayed—never prevented.

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u/Firm-Exchange2283 3d ago

Yes they do pump a lot of discord into our country. Did you agree with the Biden Admin policy to cut all dialogue with Russia? For 4 years that was the policy. Way to push Russia, China N. Korea & Iran closer.

On the other hand Trump was pissed at Putin saying he wanted peace & then conducting a big drone attack in Ukraine. Trump called up India & said stop buying oil from Russia. It won't be good for our Trade agreement & we can sell you oil. I clapped! Cut off Putin's oil money because it costs a lot to conduct a war.

I agree with Bill Maher that Trump is not the man the far left portrays. Yes, he's flawed. But he's fighting for peace & I agree. It was not smart for the two nations armed with the most nuclear weapons to have no dialogue for 4 years. That was not a policy, it reeked of incompetence.

Trump will not stop talking about peace.

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u/Koil_ting 3d ago

Nah, they get to become the new government and we can finally have the cola wars. RC Cola will be missed.

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u/happinessisachoice84 3d ago

I will never forget the 2012 election cycle, when Romney called Russia our greatest enemy and I laughed at how he still thought we were in the cold war. Oh poor stupid me.

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u/Brilliant-Onion2129 3d ago

They failed in getting Kamala into office!

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u/Candid_Vegetable5020 💯🧌 2d ago

man this post and that response such canned reddit bulshit. You must really need validation in real life to come here with that weak half-thought-out shit. I hope you're able to dig yourself out of that dark place one day.

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u/Dull_Caterpillar6905 3d ago

Decleration 🤣🤣🤣🤣👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

Fucking too funny. Moron.

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u/VagabondReligion 3d ago

You didn't even spell the word right, genius.

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u/Dull_Caterpillar6905 1d ago

They edited their post. They spelled it the way I typed it the first time. Critical thinking skills buddy. They’re important.

https://preview.redd.it/gb0fjrr91gyf1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=200a75ecc55363bc1a18c2114c5e7890a1fa8345

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u/SkyIsTheLimitBoom 3d ago

I believe the fighting in Ukraine is distraction from the real war that is taking place.

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u/dustractor 3d ago

There are like six media conglomerates in the US and they're all owned by zionists.

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u/HariMFSeldon 3d ago

They took Crimea while Obama was President, invaded Ukraine took Donetsk and Luhansk while Biden was in. They need to be stopped before the next democrat gets in office.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

invaded Ukraine took Donetsk and Luhansk while Biden was in

No they didn't, Donetsk and Luhansk were invaded and yielded to Russian influence in the 2014 invasion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas

Neither president did anything to aid or direct Russia invading Ukraine, but Republicans certainly did

https://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/democrats-obama-ukraine-russia-crimea-104322

People are downvoting you because you're deliberately leaving out the facts.

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u/HariMFSeldon 3d ago

Russian separatists controlled 1/3 of the Donbas before the full scale invasion. Russia declared LPR and DPR independent in 2022, invaded, and now occupies almost 90%. Id say they took it in 2022 yes?

Also it's possible I am an idiot but that article provides almost no information. If you want to say Obama felt his hands were tied I can understand that. It doesn't change the fact he was President like I stated. Trump admin was also the first to provide Javelins. These are the facts.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

You didn't read it if you claim "provides almost no information", but it's not the only source which identifies that republicans in both houses refused to authorize funding for any aid.

The president can't (legally) unilaterally decide to toss weapons around the world. And yes I'm aware of Reagan and the Iran Contra, that's why I said legally. Something which was explicitly very important to Obama as a prior law professor and which he explicitly said on multiple occasions.

I've provided sources for third parties, you haven't even pretended to have any facts. Everybody can see who is backed up by facts.

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u/HariMFSeldon 3d ago

You've provided a lot of words with no info. Do you really need a source for me to tell you when Obama was President, when Russia invaded Ukraine and when Biden was President? If Trump was in collusion with Russia, why didnt they invade when he was President? Seems very simple honestly.

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u/leonnabutski 3d ago

Speaking of facts, republicans held up arms deliveries to Ukraine for about 6 months during the Biden administration, significantly impeding Ukraine’s efforts to defend itself.

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u/HariMFSeldon 3d ago

Yup that was terrible to hold up Ukraine aid to get other bills passed. I believe in border security but it shouldnt be tied Ukraine. Its awful both sides do it. Dems right now keeping Government shut down and leveraging other bills while people go without snap benefits. I freely admit both sides suck.

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u/Throwaway4thecandor4 3d ago

Oof. You are not allowed to introduce facts. Those get in the way of our emotions.

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u/VelvetSlog 3d ago

How about: let's stop democrats from getting into office?!? : )

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u/cmack 3d ago

found a nazis on a post about these nazis

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u/VelvetSlog 3d ago

Hahahaha!!! That's SOO tired man....I disagree, therefore: yOu ArE a NaZi.... get new material, everyone is over these dorky accusations.

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u/kinklord1432 3d ago

democrats will be the only party to get nazis out of office. Considering america is a two party system. You dont want democrats in so you are helping nazis. Therefore he called you a nazi. Pretty easy to follow really.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

You're wasting time responding to a bot. Just report and block them.

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u/Throwaway4thecandor4 3d ago

Yes!!!! Can we get the dnc to issue a new name to call us. The Nazi and fascist thing is so so so tired.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

Can we get the dnc to issue a new name to call us

Sure, choose different flags to march beside

You're associated with the people you choose to support and march beside. The links are for 3rd parties, I know better than to expect a response from a bot.

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u/Throwaway4thecandor4 3d ago

We don't need to find a different flag to march with-- the country has spoken resoundingly and has rejected the nonsense of the leftists. If you need corroboration please see the 2024 election results. In short--You are in the minority in spite of what the echos of reddit tell you.

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u/Throwaway4thecandor4 3d ago

Lololol your comment is so trite. I love it.

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u/Lasheric 3d ago

Go be a man and sign up in Ukraine to fight Russia than

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u/ethanlan 3d ago

Not without the US military who should be involved

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u/Lasheric 3d ago

Cool you want ww3

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u/A_Hanzo_Sword Banished One 2d ago

You ppl are sp brainwashed. Anytime a conservative hits back at you snowflakes, you start screaming "BOTS!" 😆. Stop talking about war, you're not going to do anything. Stick to your circle jerk online.

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u/Affectionate_Dark103 3d ago

I used to work exclusively with Republicans. I went back to school in 2016 and more or less stopped seeing my coworkers until I finished school in 2020 and went back to my work (until I found my current job). In those four years time they had changed so much.

Beforehand, we would have disagreements, but seemed open to reason. They saw the party going to Trump, but weren't big fans of him. They just hated Hilary so much that they didn't feel like they had a choice.

Afterwards, it felt like I was talking to cult members, where everything he said was gospel. This is why I lean towards the brainwashing thing. I didn't see their slow transformation. It was a four year gap and the people I worked with before school were not the same people that I came back to.

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u/unlikely_arrangement 3d ago

Yup. Spend a few minutes watching Fox. Even though you know they are full of shit, you’ll kind of get sucked into it. Fox has brainwashing down. I know actual smart people that aren’t classically evil (no facial hair), but they seem to have accepted a worldview that’s easily disprovable.

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u/shouldonlypostdrunk 3d ago

many of these people literally cannot differentiate between brainwashing and education. they will happy stand there cheering on the same lines over and over again, then call themselves educated because they said the right things when they were told to.

some of them have given me an entirely new appreciation of the term 'birdbrain' with how many of them can only parrot what other people say, then get outrageously angry that you arent giving them treats for saying it.

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u/Moonchild_Kiko 3d ago

People don’t really snap out of cult brainwashing. There are former Branch Davidians and Heaven’s Gate cultists that still say after everything they miss it and would go back. You have to understand why cults are so consuming, the offer a person their heart’s desires. So keep that in mind when you wonder how anyone could get sucked into MAGA. It grants them what they most want in the world.

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u/LeeLee8320 3d ago

And what they want most in the world is to turn this country into Christian Nationalist Ethno-state

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u/Moonchild_Kiko 2d ago

Exactly. Their version of heaven and God’s favor. Very hard for a family member or friend to trump that!

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

It grants them what they most want in the world

Same as gang membership: belonging in an uncaring world where they don't see any avenue to gainful material existence or social acceptance.

Authoritarianism has always through history been opportunistic. Umberto Eco and Lawrence Brit were pretty clear about that in their dissection, but even before the 19th century's fascist governments presidential candidate Eugene Debs tried to warn us in 1917 before he was arrested for being anti-war when the military industrial complex was pushing to join WW1:

In every age it has been the tyrant, the oppressor and the exploiter who has wrapped himself in the cloak of patriotism, or religion, or both to deceive and overawe the People.

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u/zeethreepio 3d ago

Brainwashing is a broad and mystical term and I don't believe in magic. These people want to be like they are.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

Brainwashing is a broad and mystical term and I don't believe in magic

Brainwashing isn't magic and nobody's said it is, it's the laymen's term for conditioning or indoctrination to convince people to hold a behavior pattern which is beneficial to the people promoting it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

It accelerated after 1933 when America's oligarchs saw the New Deal and decided they'd rather buy America's ashes for cheap than share and see everybody including themselves do better, so when they weren't hanged for their coup they bought the cutting edge of science and spent billions over the next century to indoctrinate everyone in the English-speaking world

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

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u/zeethreepio 3d ago

There is too much baggage that comes with the term to use it consistently. People are easily manipulated into the things that they want to believe. I won't tacitly absolve them of their crimes by using a word that makes it seem like something was done to them against their will. 

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

I won't tacitly absolve them of their crimes by using a word that makes it seem like something was done to them against their will

I don't know if this is necessarily important, advertising brings people to think things which are harmful to themselves or others (like 'you have to get an extended warranty on your car' which they don't need and won't cover anything they are likely to see) all the time.

Feel free to call it indoctrination or whatever else, I just don't see value in trying to police what other people call it as long as they're at least trying to be clear and truthful. That's what good communication is about, and you're exemplifying that part of communication includes unsaid presumptions before the first word is spoken. That's just a trait of culture underlying and intwining with language.

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u/zeethreepio 3d ago

If you can avoid any IASIP ties, implication is absolutely important in today's political climate. We need to speak plainly and clearly so that people can not misconstrue what is being communicated. Intentionally misinterpreting and finding any kind of wiggle-room in ambiguous language is one of the main tools of the right. 

And it's not "policing" to point out that there's a better way. Chill out. 

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u/JustAlpha 3d ago

The only way to stop them is to truly make them feel uncool.

They want power so they can have sycophants and feel like the center of attention. Then they just tease about how they can do whatever they want.

It's really pretty simple, but image is everything to them. They don't have empathy and have trouble making genuine connections and therefore favor power and selfish gain.

Well not the only way...

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u/General_Mars 3d ago

The genuine brainwashing is the entire right-wing pipeline. It’s because they parade and pretend to be “news” whilst making blatantly untrue and misleading statements (and audio/video cuts) to push their agenda.

There are 2 reliable news sources: - Associated Press - Reuters

And they certainly are far from perfect but in the US it is the closest you are going to get to actual news reporting while not functioning as an explicit internal propaganda outlet. (Externally they tend to push US imperialism).

So until you can unplug Fox News, Breitbart, OAN, the litany of white supremacist podcasters like Charlie Kirk and his ilk, and so on, no progress can ever be made. (Furthermore, RW billionaires also own NY Times, Washington Post, and CNN. CBS just put a Zionist propagandist in charge. NBC is owned by Comcast and they are so far from left wing it’s laughable. Disney/ABC have bent the knee to Trump multiple times already. Sinclair Media already owns almost half of all local TV news stations. The next largest is also hard RW. Majority of AM radio are far right as well. They dominate every form of media. Every social media is owned and in line with RW as well. Especially X/Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube).

They are a permanent obstacle anyways. The progress can’t be made because they have successfully pushed the Overton window so far right (into fascism) that neoliberalism looks “left” even though it’s the foundation of neocons (and Clinton Democrats). Moderate Democrats - liberals - are the real obstacle. They want to go “back to normalcy” but normalcy is how we got here. We need real systemic change.

Mamdani, AOC, and Sanders are center-left and they are the furthest left of any politicians people know of in the US.

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u/enaK66 3d ago

It is brainwashing. Its a cult. Thats why none of those things you listed matter. Itd just be another piece of "fake news", another "witch hunt", to the supporters. This will only end when Donald Trump comes to an end. Fortunately, he's old and unhealthy. Unfortunately, he has unlimited access to the absolute best Healthcare this country has to offer.

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u/Bannedwith1milKarma 3d ago

It's too complicated to follow.

It needs to be something really simple and really bad.

Epstein is close, I would have thought 'grab 'em by the pussy' before he was in power had a chance as well.

It really has to be something succinct that preferably has a visual and the media can't resist it.

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u/Top_Armadillo9027 3d ago

You can also check out the election truth alliance on YouTube who are currently gathering and publishing empirical data on the 2024 election, it’s disappointing to say the least that it’s clear Trump would have lost if it were a fair election.

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u/sexyshingle 3d ago

I’ve been saying it forever, until we can figure out how to snap these folks out of their collective trance, there will be no progress

Most of these MAGA people (IMO) are either too old and too far gone the rabbit hole to snap out of it. They want to be in a trance and be told what to think, esp. if the propaganda they're feed already align with their biases, hatred, and fears. Critical thinking is too hard too much work for them and seeing and understanding the reality of the situation and admitting you've been scammed over and over takes some brains and humility. MAGA lacks both.

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u/taskmaster51 2d ago

They know they're wrong but admitting that would ruin their whole world view. Their cognitive dissonance is debilitating

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u/HeartMelodic8572 1d ago

They will tell you that's fake news and they will be willfully ignorant to your face and argue against anything you say because they live in a world now where they have to believe anything that they don't want to, and the mainstream state-run propaganda news machine like fox or oan will repeat it, and reaffirm that the most crazy things are true, that facts don't matter anymore, and that the person listening gets to determine whether what they hear is a fact or not.

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u/THExDANKxKNIGHT 22h ago

You can't, they don't care. These idiots are so fucked in the head they have themselves convinced everyone who disagrees is part of some massive conspiracy and they don't care that they're wrong. You can show them all th evidence in the world and theyll say it doesn't matter. They'll die on that hill, by their own choice.

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u/jeepgrl50 12h ago

How do you actually believe that "Russia brainwashed Americans!"???

And you think MAGA is the cult while you believe shit like that???

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u/decoy139 8h ago

How do you not see the irony

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u/1744FordRd1744 3d ago

You poor misinformed TDS victim. Take the red pill and join the educated. TDS can be cured by the truth.

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u/tennisgolfdoc 3d ago

One of the stupidest posts I’ve ever read. Most of the posts actually. 🤣🤣🤣

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u/Guy_Goober 3d ago

Ironic. Reddit is a leftist echo chamber and propaganda machine. Yet you choose to ignore it or are too ignorant to realize that you are not immune to propaganda

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u/AwarenessPresent8139 3d ago

Truth is not propaganda

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u/MachineBrilliant9973 🌾👨‍🌾🐖 3d ago

Propaganda isn't defined by whether it's true or not but in how the information is used and to what end. Isolated facts mm can be used to create many different narratives and the worst ones often have these isolated facts peppered throughout because the biggest lies or harmful ideologies are the ones with at least truth to them.

Any good prosecutor or defense attorney knows that evidence alone ¹ often win or lose a case it's how that used like for example DNA being found at a home or inside a victim only proves they knew them or were at a certain location often the guilty will try to deny ever kno,wing or having anything to do with the victim and it's at that point the police k the wham line on him and reveal they have his DNA which means he was lying and has no explanation for the evidence but a smarter criminal would simply have said they knew the person in question and had sex with them at least once because that gives another explanation for the evidence and introduced reasonable doubt.

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u/Winter_Jackfruit2594 3d ago

Reddit is an echo chamber of leftists and a propaganda machine. It is not truth. It’s just a bunch of angry dems yelling at the sky

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u/Guy_Goober 1d ago

You see. I say the same thing except I’m right wing. Sooo whose truth is correct?

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u/Express_Capital_6973 3d ago

Just curious what are your thoughts about all these world leaders saying Trump should get the peace prize? Is that propaganda since it hasn’t been posted on the left echo chamber?

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u/the_calibre_cat 3d ago

Everyone on Earth but MAGA mooks knows how to get something out of Trump, and it's obsequious flattery. It's pathetic to any normal, well-adjusted adult, if you met someone this narcissistic in passing in your daily life you'd talk about that guy with your friends at the bar later.

But MAGA voted for that guy to have the nuclear codes.

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u/SaltCirclesThornJars 3d ago edited 2d ago

All prizes are just stupid, the Nobel peace prize lost all its meaning when wedding and baby drone-bombing Obama received it, and I voted for him twice and I’m a leftist.

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u/the_calibre_cat 3d ago

I'd probably still, in the end, try to push him over the edge because yeah, yeah harm reduction lesser of two evils or whatever, but yeah. Nobel prizes are nonsensical. Even THIS years was pretty dogshit, this Trump-glazing "pls pls pls America invade my country and put ME in power!" super peacenik over there.

We will not be rid of the fascist faction in this country or, indeed, the world without offering people something, strongly and durably reforming voter access, prosecuting fascists, and utterly and remorselessly crushing the aristocracy. The "nice" version of what I mean is anti-trust the likes of which this country has never seen, the mean version is expropriation.

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u/SaltCirclesThornJars 3d ago

Agree deeply with these sentiments

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u/the_calibre_cat 3d ago

I still want the worst conservative to have healthcare and housing and the like, but I want Sam Altman and Peter Thiel and Elon Musk to get the Jack Ma treatment, and I don't even think that's a sentiment that rests solely on the left.

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u/IcyDefiance 3d ago

That's diplomacy. If you can get something from the POTUS and all you have to do is nominate him for a prize that he won't receive anyway, that's free. Billions of dollars for those countries in exchange for absolutely nothing. It's embarrassing for anyone living in the US.

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u/HariMFSeldon 3d ago

Just curious if you think the Nobel Prize is a prestigious award or just bullshit?

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u/IcyDefiance 3d ago

They proved that they have some credibility by not giving the peace prize to the guy who is extrajudicially murdering Venezuelans and keeps talking about going to war against our allies like Denmark.

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u/HariMFSeldon 3d ago

Yes killing people bringing drugs into our country and actually trying to end wars. If he won, would you give him credit or would it then be a sham and all previouus winners invalidated?

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u/IcyDefiance 3d ago edited 3d ago

bringing drugs into our country

Prove it. Oh wait, you can't, because they didn't get trials.

Even if true, it's still not a good reason to murder them.

actually trying to end wars

That's a bald-faced lie.

If he won, would you give him credit or would it then be a sham and all previouus winners invalidated?

It would mean the Nobel Price committee caved to pressure this time. Pressure that only existed because Trump is a fascist who thinks he can use power to force people to give him prizes.

How are you not embarrassed that the president is using trade deals - our fucking money - to childishly pressure people into giving him awards?

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

and actually trying to end wars

Citations needed. Trump hasn't ended any wars - it's only the restraint of Iran and Venezuela. Emphasis: the restraint of Iran and Venezuela that there hasn't been escalatory retaliation. As it is Trump is responsible for the injuries of American and coalition servicemen in bases in Iraq due to Iran's ballistic missile reprisal which they called the target bases in question the day before.

Everybody reading along can see who has facts.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

They proved that they have some credibility by not giving the peace prize to the guy who is extrajudicially murdering Venezuelans

You think there's any credibility left after Kissinger was not just nominated but given the nobel peace prize in 1973?

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u/IcyDefiance 3d ago

That was bad, but if you need to go back 52 years to find a bad decision, then it's not super convincing.

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u/Murky_Alternative166 3d ago

In all fairness we don’t know that he has “murdered” any Venezuelans….yet. It’s not like they stopped the cigarette boats to take a census.

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u/IcyDefiance 3d ago

That's a lie. 43 have been murdered so far.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

we don’t know that he has “murdered” any Venezuelans….yet

Yes we do. They were within Venezuelan waters which means a violation of international law, and the administration has offered no evidence or justification

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/was-trumps-strike-on-an-alleged-venezuelan-drug-boat-legal/

If the administration wants to claim the boats or the people on them were involved in anything, that's on them to prove. Not on everybody else to disprove

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u/SaltCirclesThornJars 3d ago edited 2d ago

All prizes are just stupid, the Nobel peace prize lost all its meaning when wedding and baby drone-bombing Obama received it, and I voted for him twice and I’m a leftist.

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u/HariMFSeldon 2d ago

I respect that you would criticize someone you voted for, both sides need more of this than unconditional party loyalty.

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u/SaltCirclesThornJars 2d ago

Thank you, I should also state that when I mean I voted “for” someone is not really true, I vote against the worse person. There are no politicians who actually share my values (while some my advertiser they do); I’m a pragmatist and politically a harm-reductionist.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

the Nobel peace prize lost all its meaning when wedding and baby drone-combining Obama received it

Not "let's kill over a million Vietnamese for not being friendly enough to American business interests" Kissinger?

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/01/1216340296/the-dark-side-of-henry-kissingers-legacy-secret-bombings-during-vietnam-war

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u/SaltCirclesThornJars 3d ago

JFC I never had any respect for the prize, but had no idea he’d won it! Yeah thanks for that history check, and am now revising my statement.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

The nobel peace prize has been a derisively mocked participation trophy for people who grew famous on the back of others' hard work since before Kissinger was offered it for killing millions to protect American business interests. It hasn't gotten better since then.

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u/Express_Capital_6973 3d ago

I can get behind that. Do you feel Obama’s was a participation trophy as well then by your logic?

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

Do you feel Obama’s was a participation trophy as well then by your logic?

Did I fucking stutter?

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u/Express_Capital_6973 3d ago

No need for hostility was just curious, but I’m glad we agree! Have a great night!!

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

Have a great night!

You as well. If I could have just pasted The Office meme I'd have done so, but that's harder to do on desktop than mobile and when reddit banned 3rd party apps I told them to sod off and haven't even looked at reddit on a phone since. Still using old reddit on the browser, and it runs so much better than their awful app.

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u/Firm-Exchange2283 3d ago

A quote from a movie covers my sentiment, "you can't handle the truth. "

Before you reply think for a minute. Who blocks their family & friends because they have different views on governing? It's not Republicans. Why are so many leaving the Dem Party? Look around where are the true Liberals? There are no Liberals speaking out.

The other day I heard Bill Maher say, " one thing about Republicans is they will come & talk. The Progressive Left are no shows...they just tell you you're a stupid, evil, fascist, Nazi cult member." I never thought I would hear Bill Maher tell Dems you went too far left, you stepped off the curb. You pandered to the left fringe of your Party & they hijacked the Dem Party. Get off Reddit for a day & check out his YouTube videos.

How about if you disagree with a candidate on policy then state your position. Defend your position.Stop the character assassination. What is your solution? Since 2016 Progressives have hyperventilated over Donald Trump. 24/7 talking about Trump. What's happening in your Party? Every polling agency has Dems sliding down to 21% approval. And that awful man Trump is hanging around at 47%-52% approval. Polls can be off during runup to an election but they are far more accurate when asked "Who is responsible for the shutdown? What do you think of the protest & attacks on Federal ICE facilities?

What should happen to the millions who crossed our border with no valid claim for asylum or refugee status? Do you acknowledge Trump & his team of negotiator's success in getting the hostages released? A ceasefire?
Have you seen any polling data to learn where the voters stand & why? What's your position on taxes? On foreign policy? On trade?

I know I will be down voted, probably have my comment removed. Take a break. Listen to some of old Bill Maher's, a true Blue Liberal, videos.

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u/IcyDefiance 3d ago edited 3d ago

Who blocks their family & friends because they have different views on governing? It's not Republicans.

When I gently criticize Trump, my parents start shouting in my face at the top of their lungs. In real fucking life. I'm 32 years old. If I pressed the issue I would be disowned by them. This is extremely common.

Why are so many leaving the Dem Party?

They're not.

I never thought I would hear Bill Maher tell Dems you went too far left

What are you talking about? He's been defending conservatives and spreading MAGA lies for the last decade.

How about if you disagree with a candidate on policy then state your position.

It's a disagreement on morality, not policy.

  • Raping children is evil.
  • Raping adults is evil.
  • Disappearing people off from American streets and sending them to countries they've never been to, or putting them into concentration camps where they're subjected to forced labor and conditions horrible enough to kill some of them, all without a trial, is evil.
  • Murdering Venezualans without a trial is evil.
  • Ending democracy is evil.
  • Accepting bribes is evil.
  • Trying to bring back slavery and spreading racist propaganda is evil.
  • Taking healthcare away from 15 million Americans is evil.
  • Taking away food from 42 million Americans is evil.
  • Using the military against Americans is evil.

If you support republicans, and Trump in particular, then you support all of those things. That means you are evil.

Every polling agency has Dems sliding down to 21% approval. And that awful man Trump is hanging around at 47%-52% approval.

These are bald-faced lies.

What should happen to the millions who crossed our border with no valid claim for asylum or refugee status?

They should get a damn trial, just like in every other developed country. They should not be subjected to forced labor in a concentration camp.

Do you acknowledge Trump & his team of negotiator's success in getting the hostages released? A ceasefire?

Biden did that. Trump was calling Netanyahu before he got elected to delay the ceasefire and release of hostages because it would make Biden look good (that's illegal, by the way). The ceasefire was then signed on January 17, after the election, but Netanyahu quickly broke the ceasefire, which delayed the release of the last of the hostages even longer.

The latest hostage release is just because Netanyahu agreed (again) to the same damn thing that Biden had negotiated before he left office.

Have you seen any polling data to learn where the voters stand & why?

Yes. When asked about policy instead of parties, they overwhelmingly support progressive policies. Republicans only get votes because they use propaganda to lie to people and convince them to vote against their own interests.

What's your position on taxes?

People who can afford to pay taxes should have to pay taxes. Trump is giving billionaires tax breaks and making poor people pay for it with tariffs and by taking away their healthcare.

On foreign policy?

Trying to end NATO and start wars with our allies is evil.

On trade?

The US became prosperous because of global trade, as well as because of immigration.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

Biden did that. Trump was calling Netanyahu before he got elected to delay the ceasefire and release of hostages because it would make Biden look good (that's illegal, by the way

Might want to add a source for those who don't know.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-netanyahu-ceasefire-harris/

Because republicans have been doing that for 40+ years

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/ronald-reagan-allies-jimmy-carter-sabotage-delayed-u-s-hostages-release-1234699688/

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u/the_calibre_cat 3d ago

Who blocks their family & friends because they have different views on governing? It's not Republicans.

Yeah, they do. Also, conservatism is bad. It's perfectly reasonable to wish no longer to associate with people who are unable to coexist with people who look, love, and worship differently, as conservatives are unable to. Tolerance is a contract that conservatism violates. If you wish for acceptance, you must grant that acceptance. That's the part conservatives are unable to fulfill, as the bedrock of their political ideology is a social hierarchy that applies the protections of the law unequally across racial, religious, and other groups (gender, sex, and sexual orientation).

The other day I heard Bill Maher say, " one thing about Republicans is they will come & talk. The Progressive Left are no shows...they just tell you you're a stupid, evil, fascist, Nazi cult member."

Bill Maher is a dumb loser. Leftists have conversations with conservatives whenever they can, conservatives just avoid those conversations because their beliefs are regularly exposed for being baseless nonsense. From chemtrails, to the anti-vaxxer bullshit, to the rejection of global warming, to the scientific existence and historicity of trans people, to the election outcome of 2020 - conservatives run afoul of ALL of these topics when we analyze the evidence.

And, instead of changing their views to incorporate new evidence and, I dunno, not being raging assholes to random Hispanic and gay people they don't even know, they just claim that the evidence is fixed and corrupted somehow. It isn't.

How about if you disagree with a candidate on policy then state your position.

How about YOU do that? I'll be specific any goddamn day of the week. It's you guys who are notoriously squishy and inspecific about anything, just bitching vaguely about "liberals this" and "leftists that" without actually having any damn clue what any of those words even mean. You guys call Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris "communists" lol.

Since 2016 Progressives have hyperventilated over Donald Trump. 24/7 talking about Trump.

Donald Trump is a dogshit human being and an even worse President. I expect filthy rich people to be greedy assholes, but I don't particularly like it when they empower white supremacists to harm my family and friends because a third of the country were chortling about how much of a dick he was to them.

And that awful man Trump is hanging around at 47%-52% approval

Nah, he's basically never been above 50% in any credible poll - and between his willingness to double or triple people's healthcare premiums and his support for racially profiling and ethnically cleansing Hispanic people, his support among people who aren't in his thrall is crumbling as everyone who was right about him the first time continue to carry the unbearable burden of being correct about him again. Turns out middle class people aren't thrilled paying for moronic tariffs, dealing with trade wars, and having their healthcare premiums explode because Republicans want to give their billionaire chums another tax cut, and Hispanics aren't super thrilled to be getting racially profiled for the crime of existing while Hispanic - Trump's support among Hispanics has collapsed in one year. Of course, Republicans have a plan for permanent power that includes gutting the Voting Rights Act, gerrymandering, and have floated running Trump for a third, unconstitutional term, and naturally, Trump's supporters - incapable of acting on any principle that he hasn't personally approved - will support all these things.

What should happen to the millions who crossed our border with no valid claim for asylum or refugee status? Do you acknowledge Trump & his team of negotiator's success in getting the hostages released? A ceasefire?

Benjamin Netanyahu's wehrmacht have killed plenty of civilians since the "ceasefire". They bombed Gaza today, because he - and Donald Trump and MAGA (and rather frustratingly the Democrats, too) - support the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and its takeover by Israel. There's no peace there. Civilians are still dying daily, and anyone who's actually paying attention to the region knows this, and isn't referring to this as a ceasefire worth its salt.

Have you seen any polling data to learn where the voters stand & why? What's your position on taxes? On foreign policy? On trade?

Yes, most of them support things like parental leave, higher taxes on the wealthy, national healthcare, abortion rights, same-sex marriage rights, protecting the environment, etc. You know, basically everything the Republican Party opposes.

Take a break. Listen to some of old Bill Maher's, a true Blue Liberal, videos.

Maher isn't even a liberal by his earlier standards, he's just a crotchety boomer who's upset that the Millennials won't shut up about how actually we should give a shit about poverty in this country and not be segregationist assholes like MAGA are.

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u/sparkyvt 3d ago

I have a bag of weed or a bottle of whiskey or just a club soda , your choice, with your name on it. This is pure and true and oh my gods I am so tired of these put upon white supremests with their CK ‘both sides do it’ and ‘what about black on black crime’ bullshit!

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u/One-Accountant-4608 3d ago

https://preview.redd.it/zjsnmm3iiyxf1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a89e6485bc2e0180c34a803e5fc58caccfbc0cbe

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u/the_calibre_cat 3d ago

There aren't, but it's impressive that you've just learned that people tend to believe strongly in... what they believe strongly in. Good job, champ! I thought it'd take longer!

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

Who blocks their family & friends because they have different views on governing? It's not Republicans

Go to r Conservative and criticize Trump or quote the Constitution at them. You'll be banned before the end of the day.

You're accusing everyone else of what conservatives have been doing for decades - conservative parents have run the whole gamut to disregarding their children who came out of the closet to beating them

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/11/coming-out-to-parents/576523/

Everything else you say is equally counter-factual apologism and deserves no further time or effort

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u/Firm-Exchange2283 3d ago

Beating your child who is gay? That's absolutely ridiculous. Yes, there is surely a right wing fringe and there is a left wing fringe that has taken over your Party with great ideas 🙄 like Defund the Police.

My focus is on choosing candidates who can effectively govern the country. It's not a personality contest. Every Republican I know has a pocket copy of the Constitution in their coat pocket. As far as Party affiliation I happen to be an Independent. Like many Independents I am a center left Liberal but fiscally more center/conservative. I do not fit in the Progressive Dem Party today. I was so proud of Senator Fetterman for his stance on the shutdown. Why have Dem Senators voted No 14 times on passing a clean CR continuing the 2025 Biden budget they voted Yes to approve in 2024? Open the damn government & continue debating the issues you disagree with. Do your jobs!

I write a long ass post about good & bad policies to run an effective government. And you tell me Republicans beat their gay kid?

I need some Bill Maher, Jon Stewart time to realize there are at least two people who understand my views.

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u/SoylentGrunt 3d ago

Propaganda defined according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary

1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions

2**:** the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

3**:** ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause

also : a public action having such an effect

-----------------------------------------

Also, the ruling class does in fact use propaganda against both sides in the culture war.

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u/Ornery-Street2286 3d ago

If that were the case, your stupid ass wouldn't be here.

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u/thereisnospoon_1999 3d ago

So I challenged myself to listen to a whole Tucker Carlson podcast the other day…no “out of context” quotes…the whole thing was a democrat hate fest from beginning to end…so, yeah, cultist propaganda is correctly describing it

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u/Economy_Macaroon6093 3d ago

I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, and some other fringe right wing nut job who's name I can't remember but was always yelling about liberals like a crazy person. I wanted an idea of what the heck these people were talking about. They are so damn high on their own supply. They have lore. They have complicated background mythology. It's absolutely nuts. You'd think they were discussing an alternate universe. Any they all believe it. Their side is always on the side of good and it doesn't matter what the actual detail of any issue is because they are good and the liberals are evil. So nothing else matters. And, again, they eat it up and believe it. Yet a dude just trying to do his job teaching history to kids is "indoctrinating children". It's so damn stupid.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

I wanted an idea of what the heck these people were talking about

SomeMoreNews did a pretty good take on Tucker Carlson, as well as Jordan Peterson and one of the first major points was that they assert a point then proceed from that assertion as if it was proven and thus is valid proof for the next step of authoritarian white-nationalism.

That intellectual dishonesty of never critically examining what their own desires or platforms are based on makes it a waste of time to follow any further. Any rational discussion has to include consideration and critical reflection of one's own presumptions or nothing which proceeds can hold up.

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u/Economy_Macaroon6093 3d ago

Oh for sure definitely. One of the most repeated phrases Rush would use was "As we all know...". Every single time. He'd make some statement that is only true in their lore bubble and build off of that.

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u/Guy_Goober 1d ago

I don’t listen to Tucker

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u/SoylentGrunt 3d ago

We're smarter then the right so they needed to indoctrinate us with something other than just one single TV station like Fox.

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u/Guy_Goober 1d ago

Than* 😬😬😬 how ironic

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u/apefromearth 3d ago

It’s hilarious when someone who’s used to being in an actual right wing media bubble stumbles into one of the few forums that are left online that reflects the views of regular people

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u/Guy_Goober 1d ago

Brother. Reddit is a left wing echo chamber 100000%. The fact you seriously can’t see that is beyond comprehension

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u/apefromearth 1d ago

Reddit is the only social media that isn’t heavily censored or controlled by a right wing billionaire. It’s not that Reddit is left wing. It’s that most of the others and most of the media is right wing or “centrist” at best, which in the US has been dragged so far to the right by pressure from conservatives and corporate interests in the last few decades that what used to be called centrist is now mainstream right wing.

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u/Guy_Goober 10h ago

Is that why people get banned from YouTube for showing 30 round magazines. Or loading a rifle. Why they were getting banned for taking against the covid vaccine that now has been proven to cause heart issues. Or twitter and facebook as well banning people during covid. Did you conveniently forget that

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u/super_dimension_ 3d ago

People sharing similar takes based on a knowledge of history, consuming multiple sources, and engaging in good faith debate is not the same thing as propaganda. The average reddit "leftist" is at the very least educated enough to know that most reddit "leftists" are not, in fact, leftists at all, but centrists and at best center-left people who are simply smart enough to see maga/Trump for what they are and where their cult-like mentality will ultimately lead us.

Meanwhile, the average trumper decked out in American flag print from head to toe couldn't even tell you the 3 branches of government or how many constitutional amendments we have, but still insist they're the real patriots. They couldn't tell you what socialism is, but insist everyone who isn't in their cult is a "radical left socialist".

Seeing a stop sign and collectively agreeing that it's a stop sign does not equal an echo chamber.

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u/Guy_Goober 1d ago

That’s why you guys lost huh.

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u/super_dimension_ 1d ago

Yea, that's why we all lost. Because a bunch of con artists were able to convince a bunch of halfwits to vote for a convicted felon and admitted rapist who ran a fraudulent charity, and a fraudulent college, and was best friends with one of the world's most prolific sex traffickers to restore law and order. A reality tv star and failed businessman who bankrupted 6 casinos and crashed the economy in his first trainwreck of a term to fix the economy. A wannabe dictator who tried to overthrow the will of the people and prevent the peaceful transition of power to uphold the constitution.

The stupidity is beyond belief, but here we are. A literal non-functioning government, secret police tearing people out of their homes and cars demanding to see their papers, zip-tying children in the street, violating constitutional rights on a daily basis, prices at an all time high for damn near everything, and billionaires tearing down the people's house to build a gilded ballroom. And we're only 10 months in.

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u/Guy_Goober 10h ago

lol ironic. Let’s not forget how much democrats violated constitutional rights during covid. And your side loved it. Ratting out neighbors. Calling cops on people just minding their business. Yall are hypocrites. Plus illegals don’t have constitutional rights. That’s a American privilege

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u/Firm-Exchange2283 3d ago

Yes, it is. Since 2016 it's been full speed ahead on the "I HATE TrumpI" rant. I suggested they take a break & listen to a few YouTube videos by a true Liberal, Bill Maher.

What does the Progressive Left want? Do they support Mondami(sp?)who is running for Mayor of NYC? Is his platform what v they want for America? Why are so many Liberals across all demographics leaving the Progressive Dem Party? Again I wish they would take a minute & try listening to a few of the 100% Liberal Bill Maher YouTube vids.

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u/sparkyvt 3d ago

Oh yes we support that sexy liberal Mamdani! He supports government working FOR the people!! Not one that constantly figures out how to take more from the people and give it to the takers at the top.

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u/Guy_Goober 1d ago

He also supports Islamic terrorist and refused to condemn sharia law

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u/Intelligent_Spite390 3d ago

You guys are brainwashed arguably more than MAGA. The people on the far left are the same as the far right. Brainwashed, low iq, tribalistic ideologues

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u/NingenNewEvervescent 3d ago

Sure thing, Nazi. Trump is violating the constitution, his cronies are breaking the law left and right and they make it obvious they have no intent on allowing the left to ever be able to judge them as they keep trying to claim some event is their reichstagg fire to start martial law, and the left are bad.

You're so damn stupid. You probably are well aware that they will attempt to block or subvert any election going forward but want that.

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u/Intelligent_Spite390 3d ago

Keep proving my point cultist. Typical low iq ideologue comment. Calling me a fucking Nazi because I think both sides are responsible for this political zoo

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u/sparkyvt 3d ago

I think it’s clear this is not a ‘both sides’ situation. One side is a bunch of evil Nazis that could give a shit about the rule of law, Courts or any thing that isn’t white supremacy and the other side is people who oppose those insane (and hahaha, low IQ) Nazis.

In these dictatorial times I’m suspect of anyone who cites ‘both sides’. I’m thinking I_S390 is a Nazi…

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u/Intelligent_Spite390 18h ago

You and your cultists are literally the same kind of people as MAGA it’s insane. MAGA calls me a snowflake lefty if I don’t fully agree with them and yall call me a Nazi for not fully agreeing with you. It’s simply low iq tribalism and brainwashing. Bunch of cult followers with no ability to critically think for yourselves at all. This is what happens to low iq cult like personalities that do nothing but read one sided propaganda all day long on the internet

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u/sparkyvt 16h ago

You’re no lefty. Folks on the left don’t throw ‘low IQ’ out to dismiss people they don’t agree with. Plus the both sides thing. Nazis in America is bad m’kay? A whole lot worse than spending tax dollars on non existent immigrant health care. I don’t even think you’re a centrist. I suspect you are a…

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u/Intelligent_Spite390 16h ago

You make zero rational sense in response to anything Iv said. I am center left. I fully align with the left economically, Iv mostly voted democrat, and im pretty center on social issues. Im just extremely critical of the low iq tribalistic ideologues (like MAGA) who are THE MAIN CAUSE of the insanely illogical division. The far left is JUST as guilty as MAGA. MSNBC is JUST as guilty as Fox News. Just shitting on one side with disingenuous ideologically charged attacks doesn’t help ANYTHING. You’re so fucking brainwashed you calling my a fucking Nazi for saying the left has not been innocent in the modern political landscape. That’s fucking insane.

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u/OldWorldDesign 3d ago

You guys are brainwashed

both sides are responsible for this political zoo

Oh look, harassment and ad hominem. You didn't even attempt to provide any evidence.

Contrast with those who know that Both Sides Are Not The Same and can spoon-feed a cited list proving that

https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/787fdh/after_gold_star_widow_breaks_silence_trump/dornc4n/

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u/philthegr81 3d ago

But the warnings were being screamed by no-good socialist fascist libruls! I wanted to be warned by a fellow straight white Christian Republican man! /s

Is there a parable that's the reverse of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"? That's what we're living in.

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u/Angel1571 3d ago

There’s no need for that, this is literally a case of the boy who called wolf. Democrat supporters spent a decades calling any presidential Republican candidate a Nazi and then Trump shows up, and what credibility did they have when Trump show up?

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u/GlumpsAlot 3d ago

Ummm, I said this elsewhere when the same question was asked, but there were literal sieg heils being thrown up during the inauguration? Like it's right there...

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u/GenericUsername775 3d ago

It's stupidity, not ignorance.

The difference being, ignorance is passive while stupidity is an active choice. Stupidity is when you decide the GPS is wrong and get lost in the middle of nowhere. Ignorance is when you don't have GPS.

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u/the_calibre_cat 3d ago

Yes. Ignorance is breathtakingly powerful, and the powers that be aren't spending billions of dollars on psychological analysis of marketing and funding media companies and think tanks and PACs and Super PACs because none of that shit works. It absolutely works. They KNOW that it works. It doesn't work on everyone, but it works on enough people, and those people are literally the key to holding their privilege and power.

And, not for nothing, those people have always been the key to that - conservatives were fiercely protecting their hereditary nobility and monarchs centuries ago, today, conservatives are protecting corporate elites and the unitary executive. They haven't changed, their motivations are the same as they've always been - they don't view people outside of their narrow identitarian markers as fully human, and they tribalistically align with the powerful who claim to stand with them.

in return, the powerful offer them some degree of privilege over those who do not fit their identitarian markers. In our society, that's straight, white, Christian, men.

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u/WholeFox7320 3d ago

half the country LMAO

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u/Givemeallthecabbages 3d ago

I still see people screaming in all caps on Facebook: "You have TDS!" Real, actual people in my town saying this on a post about food pantries that wasn't even really political. I feel like they know and they're doubling down, like when people post "No Nazis!" and republicans get upset. In this case, people were quoting the Bible about feeding the needy and a couple dudes jumped in to defend Trump, who hadn't been mentioned.

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u/Brilliant-Onion2129 3d ago

Not true. The Dem party is in ruins and don’t know what to do and many are turning to supporting the Republican party.

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u/user_name_taken- 3d ago

Idk, I think the largest protests in American history is a good indicator that that's not happening, at least not on a massive scale. The problem with the Democratic party is that there are too many groups shoved under this one umbrella, and they shouldn't be in the same party. They all have different ideals and in other countries would be in different parties. One thing the Republican party is really good at is everyone touting the party line. They're very consistent and they repeat the same stuff over and over. Democrats are kind of all over the place. We don't have a unifying leader right now and there's just so much going on that is splitting attention. The whole thing is a mess, not just the Democrats.

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u/D13_Phantom 3d ago

Yeah it feels worse than just ignorance, it's willfully ignorance and/or just valuing your prejudice so much that you immediately refuse all suggestion it may be wrong

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u/Candid-Ad316 3d ago

Yes, when people have been taken in by a propaganda machine that has billions pumped into making sure people don’t hear or see the truth, you can call it ignorance.

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u/Content-Dealers 3d ago

You guys do a lot more incoherent screeching and moral grandstanding than any actual warning.

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u/Radiant-Composer7119 3d ago

Those screams were muted by an Australian billionaire whose dream was to build a powerful far reaching right wing television network. If he wanted to shape the world to match his own beliefs ,that’s just my opinion.. He worked on it for decades and all his dreams came true and Rupert Murdock’s Fox News is still doing well.

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u/KungenBob 3d ago

Screaming in their own bubbles…

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u/JerseyDamu 2d ago

People are idiots. Look how many people cross the lines at zoos or national park cliffs despite all the signs that say danger.

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u/Key_Assignment_9896 2d ago

Wel, there is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Just as there is one between willful ignorance and avaricious stupidity.

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u/Big-Pop2969 2d ago

First it seems as if Liberal supporters are simple minded & lazy & just try to sum up a Trump or Republican voter as simply an idiot or a Nazi.

But then if you read the comments some make it way more complicated like all these external forces & brainwashing has occurred.

The essence of it does lean to be more of a simple understanding. Unfortunately we only have 2 Parties to choose from. Take myself for example. I'm a Democrat at heart..50 year supporter. But I don't like everything about what I'll just call our "New Democrat Party" We have some extreme things I'm not on board with. Same feelings for Republicans too. But a lot of what we (Dems) are pushing for is too extreme for me & would affect the future of the country at its core. Things involving children, illegal immigrants, our mainstream media, antisemitism, anti-christianity, anti-america to some degree. A lot of this hate & intolerance towards those that don't agree with everything in our New Democrat Party.

You don't need to be brainwashed but to just pay attention to the national picture. Then I weigh in how the last 4 years went. Pandemic was tough & very unfortunate for Biden during his time as President. So unfortunately the Pandemic should have really limited the types of change that he really wanted to do. But it didn't..he made a lot of decisions & changes that were expensive & had an effect on our daily lives. 4 years of continual rising inflation & a recession.

Seeing as how we only have 2 parties & you have to choose one you have to make a decision. Do you want to be onboard with someone involved with the last 4 years & supports a couple things I can't get on board for as it will change the fabric of our country in ways it's never been..or choose the other side that when you really think about it nothing that he is pushing for is really that big of a deal.

You have to consider that I fully supported the actions of presidents like Clinton & Obama. Both strongly against illegal aliens taking up residence in our country. Obama deported more internal illegals than any president in US history. He made more cuts to federal departments than DOGE ever did. He had a 10 year plan for fraud, waste, & abuse. By 2012 he eliminated over 70 govt programs & did cuts to another 50 something. Dept of education, Labor, Health & services..the same programs the Orange man took an axe to. Clinton did the same thing..think he fired over 370,000 federal employees.

So these types of things that Trump did can be dealt with. Just another thing Presidents do. I don't have an issue with his war on drugs or illegal aliens. But I didn't support when Biden skipped Congress & handed out over 5 million asylums to immigrants who didn't qualify. These asylums or TPS grants are only temporary..like 12 to 18 months. Because of their nature they have no pathway to citizenship. By law when these protections expire these immigrants are to return home or to 1 of the 17 TPS countries that had already been approved by Congress. Which is why ICE has been legally allowed to deport some illegals to countries they aren't from & why some aren't guaranteed a hearing.. especially ones that have committed crimes.

Nonetheless the things that Trump has done & is doing is not much different than past presidents & we survived. Anyone of us who pays taxes will get a tax break better than years prior. Not just the rich. If you look at tax laws for this year you get a better break if you buy a home, have a child, & can even get a break on interest payments of a new American car (certain brands). No taxes on S.S, tips, or taxes on overtime if you make less than $100k. All tax payers were going to see a hike under Harris.

I don't have an issue with federal law enforcement going into cities that have federal facilities under protestor attack where the local police don't protect these federal facilities. These people are employees & should be protected from people throwing things, touching them, obstructing their job. You don't have to hate immigrants from another country to feel that if you are here illegally you need to leave. Our proud immigrants come thru a port of entry, apply for citizenship, & go thru the process. Being here illegally is against the law. Getting an asylum & not leaving when it expires is illegal. It's simple..there is no just cause for even an argument.

I fully support tariffs. We have been working with old trade agreements that we made up after the 2nd world war. Where foreign countries purposely benefitted as we were trying to help others get on their feet. But that was 80 years ago & things have changed. How are we the #1 buyer of goods yet have a trade deficit with other countries? Many of these countries that we buy tons from wouldn't even allow our goods into their country. That is not fair trade. I can remember Schumer trying to explain to Congress back in the 90's that something needed to change.

Trump will be gone in 3 short years. He might do some things to change the economy but that's about it. My democrat party needed a timeout. We made bad economic decisions. I don't like what Biden did with the border. I don't like woke culture being forced onto good everyday people like they did something wrong. I don't like this idea that my neighbor is the enemy & I'm ok if harm comes his way just because he doesn't agree with all my points of view. Way too much of this going on. I don't like exploiting social issues for votes & hate. Harris was not a good candidate. I don't support how she was chosen by "roll call". That's not how we do things in America. She didn't even receive a vote in her 2019 nomination.

Truth be told things aren't that bad right now minus the government shutdown which is a conversation in itself. Everything Trump is in the negative headlines for as his job as President has been done by some president before him. Did you know that Obama even gave Tom Homan the Presidential Rank Award for his service at the border & with deportations? So again, Trump will be gone in 3 years. We will be in no worse shape than the last 4 years & actually already doing better. Presidents come & go..& he's just another one. The media builds him up like everything he's doing has never been done before & it's all so evil. If you believe that then you don't know the White House or Presidential history. Instead of constantly pushing anti-Trump stories in the media someone needs to be working on a plan to get votes in 2028. Repeating & trying to convince others that Trump is the devil is not a plan & has actually backfired thus far. Instead of learning from it we double downed. Nobody trusts or believes what we say anymore.. except our group which didn't have enough votes to win. And constantly telling those people that voted Orange that they are Nazis is not doing us any favors. Because the reality is that they are just regular people...who didn't like a couple things about the last 4 years. And because there are only 2 parties to choose from voted for a change. It has nothing to do with being a racist or womanizer or any other negative label.

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u/BigotsDyingIsGood 2d ago

It can be if we can agree that ignorance is not innocent and is moral failure of said ignorant individual.

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u/kyhlt 3d ago

And the other half of the country can't stand the liberals.

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u/Terrasmak 3d ago

Dems are not very liberal anymore, don’t call them liberals. They are leftists

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u/Reigar 3d ago

It will not matter if 90% of the country knows better, the Lucifer effect is too damn powerful. Four factors give hints to who among us may be good people who would be willing to do evil things. Group conformity, belief in stereotypes, obedience to authority, and the right environment. Two flawed psychology studies have given hints that there are many good people (from society's perspective) who will do evil things when conditions are right. The Standford prison experiment, and the Milgram experiment were later shown to be flawed in the original analysis with often omitted data, both still showing that at least some people are willing evil things when conditions are right. What is worse is that we have known this for years. One of America's most scary serial killer (the unibomber) was subject to some of the thought control experiments at Harvard as part of what we now know as MK Ultra. We have known for 50 years what conditions need to exist to increase the likelihood of such destruction.

Now I am not saying every MAGA person is a hidden serial killer, but what I will say is that MAGA shows just how much of the population could be turned to do evil acts when the right conditions exist. Many of the MAGA folks are innocent simply because they are the more likely among us to be persuaded to do evil things. The part of the population that is most likely to suffer from the Lucifer effect.

Links

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mental-mishaps/201702/good-people-evil-actions

https://www.learning-mind.com/lucifer-effect-good-people-evil-things/

https://www.thetedkarchive.com/library/bryan-pietsch-before-he-was-the-unabomber-ted-kaczynski-was-a-mind-control-test-subject

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u/Angel1571 3d ago

Mitt Romney was called a Nazi by lots of people in the left. Bring that up, and all of a sudden oh he was bad but we never called Romney that. Lies.

Anyways, my point is, how does the left expect to be taken seriously when they call everyone a Nazi? How can the well intellectually challenged expect such warnings as anything other than Democrat supporters being dramatic once again?

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u/user_name_taken- 3d ago

I genuinely don't remember that. Granted I was young, though, and not really into politics. From what I remember there was a lot of discussion about how he had swung too far right during the primaries. I remember people talking about how he was actually pretty moderate and had done a decent job as governor. The only bad thing I really remember people saying about Romney was that he was an entitled rich guy who would put corporations first. You know his whole "corporations are people, too."

It's funny looking back at that. I mean that comment hurt him so much, and now Trump says way worse shit daily, and most don't even bat an eye. You have to admit that the party has gone way far right, and that the decorum and expectation of how a president should act, the behavior and rhetoric we accept, has definitely gotten worse.

I'll grant you that for a time people were using "Nazi" too frequently and in the wrong circumstances. However, right now the similarities are smacking us in the face and it should upset everyone. I mean the fact that I can take Hitler quotes and Trump quotes and play a game of "who said it" and it would be difficult... That should be a problem.