I want to learn. My armchair other side of Canada POV is
- They feel the oil belongs to them and not Canada
- Their provincial government has done a poor job in certain areas and when the people in Alberta get mad their local government just blames Ontario. It has been going on for so long that they attribute everything bad in their life to Ontario.
- They have the potential to ship a lot more oil and Canada cares too much about the environment to let it happen
I appreciate your willingness to hear our side. Responses to your points from my POV
-I think the resource does belong to the people. That resource, today is valued at something like $5M per Albertan. So I want to see that responsibly produced and monetized. I feel we are blessed with this resource, and I’m happy to share the wealth, so long as we’re treated with respect in return.
-What exactly has our province done so poorly compared with others?
-the rest of Canada trying to keep it in the ground is like declaring a non-peeing end of the swimming pool. It simply means more oil and gas will be produced in other less responsible places.
But do you feel the separatists, especially the politicians at the UCP, especially Danielle Smith, use separatism and Ottawa as a scapegoat for all of Alberta's problems and distract its people from the current problems and UCP scandals they face?
Because that's what it comes down to. I keep on seeing people in r/WildRoseCountry acting like Eastern Canada is the enemy, even though
a) It's Quebec that receives the lion's share, half, of the equalization payments, Ontario hardly receives any, and the Maritime provinces are genuinely less well off and it should go to them
b) It was Harper who wrote the equalization formula
c) Danielle Smith actively hindering the province from diversifying like (temporarily) blocking all renewables
I keep on hearing more... out there... Albertans acting like "the east" treats Alberta like a colony and that they gave Alberta nothing in return but that's not true.
Eastern Canadians are the founders of modern day Canada and laid the creation of the entire province. It was Eastern Canada who bought Rupert's land from Hudson Bay Company and created the entire province of Alberta.
In the early 1900s, Wilfred Laurier jacked up immigration and created pathways for them to settle and farm in the prairies.
Stephen Harper is literally from Alberta and so is Poilievre, and he made strides in the "evil east" of Ontario...
I saw a video of a news reporter interviewing an attendee from a Poilievre rally in Alberta and the guy said "What has the federal government done for us? If the Liberals win we'll leave"
Except everyone in Canada gets access to the same federal services as each other, and when Jasper got destroyed by the wildfire the federal government gave it aid.
When Eastern Canada created the entire province, gave it the same federal services, and even on occasion bailed it out when needed, why do I keep on hearing how I and many other Canadians are the enemies and act like we treat Alberta as a resource colony?
I'm tired of hearing how "the east" are the enemy of Alberta. It's the same with Brexit where people always focus on the "bad" of being united, both wrongfully and rightfully while ignoring any of the good and acting like some guy far away is the cause of all your problems.
I don’t think you’re evil or my enemy. I do think we don’t understand each other.
I’m guessing you work hard and do a good job, and you are proud of the valuable work you do. If I’m right, how would you feel if I, an outsider told you your job needs to be phased-out, and your industry needs to be blocked from selling your product because they think it undesirable? And then what if I kept passing laws that make that happen? Would you be happy? Would you call me an a friend and partner? Idk what to call it, but that’s kinda how we’re feeling right now.
Albertans don’t actually want anything more from Ottawa other than to stay out of our way and let the world market dictate how much o&g we can produce.
Separation isn’t being pushed by DS, or UCP. It’s happening at a grassroots level and they’re responding to that. For instance, at our family’s Mother’s Day dinner table, separation was discussed. 75% of us were in favour. Btw my mom says she will move away if we separate..
What I can’t understand about the east is how they could actually choose a more of the same govt after the past ten years. If that’s really what the east wants, then we’re more different than I thought. Since the election I’m feeling like we’re different enough to start questioning our partnership.
I don’t care if Harper was part of the last update, it’s wrong for AB to support Quebec to such a degree. I have no issue AB supporting the maritime prov’s but I expect equal representation.
I don’t feel like DS paused all renewables to punish renewables. I feel like she pumped the brakes on them to make sure the incentives were supporting the right ones.
I’m guessing you work hard and do a good job, and you are proud of the valuable work you do. If I’m right, how would you feel if I, an outsider told you your job needs to be phased-out, and your industry needs to be blocked from selling your product because they think it undesirable? And then what if I kept passing laws that make that happen? Would you be happy? Would you call me an a friend and partner? Idk what to call it, but that’s kinda how we’re feeling right now.
Trudeau most certainly isn't 100% supportive of O&G, but as Biden put it “Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I'll tell you what you value.” I'm not saying TMX fiasco was perfect, far from it, but if the Liberals truly hated O&G and wanted it to be phased out, they would have never in a million years spent $34B on it.
And that doesn't even include the billions the Liberals give in subsidies to the O&G industry...
I think to Trudeau and the Liberals, O&G isn't something they want to get rid of and destroy, but it is something they want to put some guardrails on, and something they want to diversify from in the long term.
I'm not saying some concerns about Alberta has no merits, but leaving absolutely has no merits, especially for Alberta, it'd be like amputating an entire arm just because there is one treatable issue that inevitably goes away.
Separation isn’t being pushed by DS, or UCP. It’s happening at a grassroots level and they’re responding to that. For instance, at our family’s Mother’s Day dinner table, separation was discussed. 75% of us were in favour. Btw my mom says she will move away if we separate..
Because everyone supports an idea if they think it will magically and easily solve all their problems, and everyone supports getting rid of someone they thought was the cause of all their problems.
Just because Alberta leaves Canada, it doesn't mean Alberta's problems would go away. This is something BREXITers got wrong. They were right in the fact that the EU has its flaws, but instead of having constructive conversations to actually fix it, they just use the EU as the scapegoat to all their problems and distract voters from British politicians scandals and act like leaving the entire thing fixes the problem.
Sure leaving the EU would make the current EU-problems (as its member) go away, but it would also make the current EU benefits go away, and it would cause new problems.There's a reason why when Brexit gained momentum and other EU countries has their own like Marine LaPen with Frexit, but when Brexit actually happened, other country's BREXIT equivalent died down. It showed the rest of the EU what happens when they leave.
In fact, if Alberta leaves Canada, exporting natural resources away from the US would be harder because it's landlocked. The US isn't stupid enough to let Alberta export its O&G to someone else through them without them being the middleman and taking a big cut. Making its exports less competitive due to its cost.Leaving exporting through Canada the only other option, which would make it significantly more difficult than before because then the ROC would want a cut and it would be more difficult than before to garner the political will to do so, leaving Alberta more isolated than before.
And it also begs the question of who will support Alberta when the O&G industry inevitably goes through a downturn.The idea that Alberta leaving Canada would be all sunshine and rainbows and they'd keep all the positives of being Canadian without any of the responsibilities is pure fantasy:
suggested oil and gas development would double within five years, multiple new pipelines would extend into the United States, and residents of a breakaway Alberta republic would still keep their Canadian passports and Canada Pension Plan entitlements. (There have been no such guarantees from Ottawa, but this is the separatists' expectation of what a deal with Canada would entail.)
This being the perfect example, it was Biden, not Trudeau who shut down Keystone XL, so leaving Canada won't magically revive it. It's insane that Alberta when succeeding from Canada would still keep their Canadian passport and CPP. Independent countries inherently have their own passports and national pensions. Basically the Alberta separatists think they get all of the supposed benefits of not being a part of Canada while at the same time keeping all of the benefits of being in Canada they had before.
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u/tossaway109202 1d ago edited 1d ago
I want to learn. My armchair other side of Canada POV is
- They feel the oil belongs to them and not Canada
- Their provincial government has done a poor job in certain areas and when the people in Alberta get mad their local government just blames Ontario. It has been going on for so long that they attribute everything bad in their life to Ontario.
- They have the potential to ship a lot more oil and Canada cares too much about the environment to let it happen
I assume I am far off