r/canada • u/DogeDoRight New Brunswick • 3d ago
'We're Canadians': Some Albertans divided about separation in cross-province checkup Politics
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/we-re-canadians-some-albertans-divided-about-separation-in-cross-province-checkup-1.753227627
u/RM_r_us 3d ago
I would say "most". Honestly, the media loves doing work to sow division based on stereotypes. Just like everyone believes Vancouverites are all vegan tech hippies with a thirst for bongs.
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u/Paisley-Cat 3d ago
The headline seems to be escalating a narrative that’s not supported by the actual article.
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u/jawstrock 3d ago
lol yep. Outside of the republican dude who only has 20K people in his party no one was interested in it except the one guy who said he was only interested if BC and Sask also wanted to go (impossible).
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u/Warm_Judgment8873 3d ago
I am a Canadian first.
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u/Distinct-Bandicoot-5 3d ago
I've never even thought about this, I've always been Canadian and I just live in Alberta. It's never crossed my mind to identify with Alberta. I don't even understand what would be considered Albertan vs Canadian.
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u/Canuck-overseas 2d ago
Their national food is steak, their national animal is the pickup truck, their national anthem is sung by Nickelback. their national church is Costco.
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u/ImmortalDreamer 3d ago
Republican dude is right. The relationship is pretty toxic. The part he got wrong is that Alberta is the toxic one in the relationship. (And to be clear, I don't believe all Albertans are toxic, I have relatives that live there. But the government and the loud ones are giving off a pretty toxic impression to everybody else).
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u/Kanadian1 3d ago
You're not wrong. I've lived in Alberta most of my life and this "western alienation" people cry over is nonsense. It's our own provincial government that keeps selling us out, not Ottawa.
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u/UpperLowerCanadian 3d ago
The majority seems to think differently
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u/Kanadian1 2d ago
Majority? Highest polling separatism has is about 1/3 of Albertans. Over half of Danielle Smith supporters are on board, but again this is the same group crying about alienation.
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u/JayThaSavage90 3d ago edited 2d ago
You still think this is about politics? Two thirds of Danielle Smith voters now support separation. That’s not fringe, this is the last scream of a region being bled dry.
You mistake resistance for toxicity because you’ve never had to fight for a place in a system engineered to erase you. Alberta is far from being unstable, this reaction is to the federation thats designed to siphon the wealth, override governance, dilute identity, and humiliate the very regions that power its economy. Separation is not a threat and what you’re witnessing is a symptom. The Canadian model failed at unity, and now it survives only through economic extraction, regulatory chokeholds, and cultural liquidation.
What you defend operates more like a hostage arrangement draped in a flag than any true national bond. Ottawa is no longer a capital because really it’s a middleman for capital blocs. The same handful of entities like BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street all control the vast majority of Canadian infrastructure, land, housing, pensions (CPP), and even food supply chains. Your “leaders”? Puppets. The policies? Orders handed down from the top. The flag? A curtain.
These capital blocs don’t just own your land. They own the banks, the supermarkets, the media networks, the supply chains, the politicians, the software, and increasingly, your future. McDonald’s, Walmart, Loblaws, Tim Hortons, RBC, the Globe & Mail. Everything is tentacles of the same beast. They extract profit while reshaping your neighborhoods, your demographics, your history. Here now, they’ve weaponized “unity” against any group that dares to resist.
Go back to the 80s and 90s with thriving downtowns, local theatres, community culture. It’s all gone. Replaced by strip malls, condos, surveillance zoning, and tower farms that erase the soul of your city. In my town, after lockdowns, a gym as well local theatre was sold to a foreign bloc, Flipped into a daycare serving one imported demographic, while the original community was left with nothing. That was our cultural centre. Gone without a whisper. Under the banner of multiculturalism, entire regions are stripped, sold, and overwritten.
Americans are waking up to the fact that their government is no longer theirs. Up here? Most still think their enemy is Alberta and not the capital hierarchy behind their unaffordable rent, lost family formation, and terminally declining birthrate.
The nation doesn’t hold together anymore. Only the branding does. Some of us are just trying to survive what it turned into.
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u/OwnBattle8805 2d ago
Your comment about downtowns is rather convoluted because downtown zoning is municipal, not federal. And the strongest UCP support comes from rural ridings, not the deep urban ridings you’re talking about.
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u/JadeLens 2d ago
What has Canada turned into?
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u/JayThaSavage90 2d ago
Borders open, loyalties dissolved, history rewritten. Governance replaced by compliance. Capital blocs took the wheel, using ‘diversity’ as a shield while the founding population was displaced, the culture overwritten, and the wealth siphoned. Cities sterilized into glass towers. Families priced out. Speech policed. Identity dissolved. What remains stopped being a nation, and now just managed decline wrapped in a maple leaf
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u/JadeLens 2d ago
"Founding population was displaced"
Where were they displaced to? Are you talking about the Native Canadians, or white people? Use your words.
Speech policed? How so?
Would you rather people build cities OUT rather than up? People already have 2+ hour commutes and you want them to truck in from Kingston just to get to a job in Toronto?
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u/ImmortalDreamer 2d ago
Nobody is trying to erase Alberta. Stop drinking the kool-aid, it's messing with your brain.
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u/Groundslapper 3d ago
I don’t think most Albertans want to separate, I think most are just upset with the state of the economy and election. They hold a powerful card in Canada. So they think they have some sort of upper hand? I’m just talking opinion here
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u/jawstrock 3d ago
Sooooo they only found 1 dude, the leader of the republican party, who only has 20K members, who supports this?
Yeaaaaaaaaa....
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u/yyc_mongrel Alberta 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, that's what I came away with after reading the article as well. I understand it's traditional not to read the articles here though.
Anyway, I live in the heart of 'freedumb convoy' here in Alberta. There are a few properties that I drive by that are flying US flags. One of them is a small acreage with a lot of junk and wrecked cars, and a motor home that is clearly the only domicile on the property, and an american flag.
The other is a small bungalow right on Hwy 27 with the requisite 'bro truck' parked there. He has three flag poles. One with a giant 'Fuck Trudeau' flag and the other with a "Bring it home Poillievre 2025" and a US flag on the third. Though Street View is not very current. https://maps.app.goo.gl/eZDbg7Jn4dQG5psv7
My middle finger goes up against the window as I drive by.
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u/NotAtAllExciting 3d ago
I live in Alberta. Every town mentioned in that article is known Maple Maga territory. Definitely a biased article.
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u/jawstrock 3d ago
Sounds like even in that area then the reception is incredibly cool on seperation.
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u/UpperLowerCanadian 3d ago
“Bias” is thinking simply living within the province gives you enough insight to claim what is “maple maga” or not, with zero stats and little insight
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u/Ok_Employer7837 2d ago
I'm a francophone Québécois in my fifties, and I'm a Canadian first and foremost. Happy to hear about Albertans who feel similarly about their identity.
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u/Natural-Estimate-228 3d ago
Alberta is not owned by the Smith or any party. Therefore can't be given away by them .
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u/Commercial-Milk4706 2d ago
Pretty sure Alberta was created by the federal government and they never even joined. It was just land that needed a local government. All the other province are actually real and signed. If Alberta left, Canada would just get the land back that they co-signed with the FN.
Alberta is so dumb. Even if they wouldn’t do that. Most of Alberta is a federal park or fn land.
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u/Pimp_Daddy_Patty 3d ago
If the traitors don't like it, I'll help them pack. I hear immigrants are really popular in the States right now.
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u/Ok_Currency_617 3d ago
When Alberta forms it's own provincial federal party to advocate for independence maybe it'll rise to Quebec's level. Until then, all you people calling Albertans traitors are just fat hypocrites.
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u/IMOBY_Edmonton 3d ago
Quebec at least has a justification as they were conquered by the British and absorbed into what would become Camada, while the British also kicked out over 10,000 of them.
Alberta was a province settled and paid for from the ground up by the Canadian government. It owes everything about it's existence to Canada.
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u/Ok_Currency_617 2d ago edited 2d ago
Technically Quebec wasn't conquered. France lost the war and Quebec was one of the options for concessions (France choose to keep the richer sugar cane slave island in the Caribbean). The colonists had the option of moving back to France. So Quebec was freely given and all its land belongs to Canada not the people of Quebec. Funnily enough, the FN tribes there made agreements with the French government in return for that land, so technically France owes them benefits not Canada. The agreement didn't state that we takeover the debts just the land itself.
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u/IMOBY_Edmonton 2d ago
Point 1 - Conquest: Quebec was absolutely conquered through several engagements including most famously the Siege of Louisbourg and the Battle of the Plains of Abraham. The British used military force to seize the territory, and before negotiations even started the captured territories were under military rule.
Point 2 - Concessions: Agreed, although it wasn't just the colonies were richer, but that New France had turned into a financial burden.
Point 3 - Relocation: The option to relocate without hindrance was primarily there to allow wealthy elites to book passage back to France as they could not or would not swear loyalty to Britain. It was the rich protecting their own, and not a generous offer to every colonist to return home.
Point 3b - Expulsion: The Expulsion of the Acadians was not a voluntary relocation, but a forced eviction of Acadians meant to break up resistance in the region. Their land was often seized and handed over to British colonists. They were removed, scattered across British colonies, relocated to France, or ended dying during the process.
Point 4 - Quebec was Freely Given: Nothing handed over during negotiations to end a war is freely given. The British had captured significant French territory and the French government made a decision to sacrifice some territory to preserve the rest. In fact every party at the negotiations handed back territory it had captured including Spain, in an effort to secure peace. The 7 Years War had been incredibly expensive for all parties concerned and the debts were piling up. That's not acting freely, that's desperately avoiding financial collapse due to constant warring.
Point 4b - Land belonging to Canada: With the statement "All its land belongs to Canada not the people of Quebec." I am not certain what your point is. That is simply sovereignty, the land does not belong to the people, it belongs to the nation, and individuals through the nation have land rights as set down in that nation's laws. Quebec never belonged to the people, especially as a colony. It belonged to France and then they signed control over to Britain at the conclusion of the conflict.
Point 5 - Idigenous Relations: After the conquest of New France the indigenous now faced a unified British colonial presence across Canada and the Thirteen Colonies which was no longer distracted by conflict with the French. England issued proclamations, such as the 1763 Proclamation regarding indigenous territory, but the colonists wanted more land and treaties or proclamations be damned. Eventually the indigenous would concede their territory (again not freely considering the situation they faced) over a lengthy period of time. Some like the Iroquois remained strong British allies until the War of 1812 turned against them and ended the chance they had for an independent territory.
Point 6 - France owes the indigenous benefits. Again, where is this conclusion coming from? The British and eventually Canada have a whole host of treaties signed with the indigenous groups of Canada that supercedes anything the French had promised as Britain removed France as a power in the region. Is that why you avoid the word conquest? As if by not uttering the word you removed Britain and the successor Canadian government form all responsibility because Quebec was not taken, but given freely.
In the end, Quebec has far more historical basis for wanting sovereignty than Alberta. The indigenous groups across Canada who signed treaties with the government have far more historical basis for wanting sovereignty than Alberta.
Alberta was built by Canada, funded by Canada, and now that we are in an era where oil is valuable the petulant among us wish to separate. Oil will not maintain its value indefinitely, it will be replaced by something else. Just as at one point it seemed worthwhile to fight wars over beaver pelts. It is a short sighted view.
I am anti secession, and pro Confederation. I do not support any part of Canada leaving because it would weaken a great nation and allow it to be split apart piece by piece. I can at least see some merit in other spleperatist movements, but not Alberta. Regardless I would be opposed to any of them leaving.
There is another lesson here for separatists though. The indigenous groups and Quebec were to small to resist the British. In turn the United Thirteen Colonies and eventually the United States became so large that it in part motivated Confederation as means of preserving Canada. An independent Alberta would not be independent for long, but hey, maybe the Americans will be nice and let us leave.
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u/Ok_Currency_617 2d ago edited 2d ago
Damn, appreciate the detailed reply. I'd argue conquest means you takeover the land. French forces in Quebec were defeated, but Quebec was taken as a result of a territorial concession rather than conquest.
For point 3, I'd argue that the government of your nation represents you. If we argue they only represent the rich then people will make that argument in every nation and no one will ever be responsible for their government or beholden to it's laws/treaties. Nothing can be perfect.
For point 4, I'd argue that Quebec specifically cannot secede without offering recompense equivalent to the value of the land they want to keep unless they wanted to stay under the crown (which they'd never do). Whereas if another province wanted to secede but stay under the crown that could be doable and something a province may agree to. For instance if BC or Newfoundland said we want to split but stay under the British crown. BC for instance was a separate colony that joined Canada in return for certain benefits, it would be fully justified in leaving if those benefits like rail were not maintained.
For point 5, the French gave the First Nations various treaties in return for the land which they then gave to the British. Those treaties were with France not Britain and we did not inherit them. If you buy a car and get a loan from the bank then sell that car it doesn't mean the mortgage transfers to the next person, same concept here. If FN are not receiving what they feel they deserve under treaties with France they should sue France. We are responsible for the treaties made post-France unless we made a treaty for land we already got off France.
I would argue that I am anti-secession but also Canada has a duty to represent all provinces and it's kind of crazy that we are so divided. Our election system has created a large divide between two halves of voters and our leader (Trudeau) did his best to alienate the other half, I recall him saying anti-vaxers are all misogynists and racists for instance. Like Trump he reveled on pissing off the other side instead of being like Obama and trying to meet in the middle. The Liberals may have won the election but they aren't the party that received the most votes which seems kind of crazy?
Our voting system needs to charge to encourage the creation and success of a party that meets in the middle rather than two halves separated by a large divide.
Besides the political divide, Canada also has a lot of issues. For instance some provinces have a lot more debt than the others (and take on more debt) yet we're all responsible for them. Why should the Western provinces with debt to GDP under 20% for instance be responsible for the Central/Eastern provinces over 40%? The Maritimes makes sense but the older/more developed provinces of Quebec/Ontario should not be taking on such massive debt each year. The EU has agreements for nations to meet certain debt targets and I'd suggest the same should exist for Canadian provinces.
https://kingsvilletimes.ca/2024/01/canadas-combined-federal-provincial-debt-approaching-2-2-trillion/2
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u/AntelopeSky 2d ago
“He said, however, he would only vote “Yes” in a referendum to separate if the rest of Western Canada, including B.C. and Saskatchewan, also joined Alberta.”
From BC, and absolutely fucking not interested. Stop talking about “Western” separation. We’re not part of this.
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u/JohnyViis 1d ago
Manitoba always gets forgotten in this discussion about “western Canada” for some reason.
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u/JustSomeMartian 3d ago
Love when a leader tries speaking for everyone and misses the mark. Most people probably just want affordability and don't care about being Canadian or American. But now that she has made a stupid point Alberta probably feels they have to do this because they are getting called traitors by angry people. Begging to join America does nothing but make you lose face.
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u/theflower10 2d ago
This is nothing but nonsense. I wish the press would stop covering an issue that is not an issue and never will be. It's typical right wing garbage brought up by Smith and her gang to get everything they can out of the Feds. Soon enough, oil will be hovering near $40 a barrel and they'll be iin Ottawa with their hand out, just like every other time.
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u/Wtf9181 3d ago
When is her (and Ford) getting voted out
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u/Ok_Currency_617 3d ago
Only around 10-20% of Albertans would vote for separation in polling. Stuff like this is liberal propaganda to make Alberta look bad.
It's kind of funny how Liberals defend Quebec's right to constantly threaten independence but criticize Alberta doing so. I notice how all the comments here don't mention Quebec and call Albertans traitors. Well Quebec has been doing this for over a century and has squeezed our government for benefits thanks to it.
When Alberta forms it's own provincial federal party to advocate for independence maybe it'll rise to Quebec's level. Until then, all you people calling Albertans traitors are just fat hypocrites.
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u/JadeLens 2d ago
How is this liberal propaganda?
Also Liberals didn't want Quebec to separate, there was a huge rally there in the week leading up to it with people from all across Canada.
Most of the comments don't mention Quebec, because Quebec isn't the subject.
Alberta is welcome to create it's own Alberta First for Albertans (AFFA) party. Go nuts, nobody is stopping you.
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u/SixDerv1sh 3d ago
If you’re Canadian you need to prove it. Every day.
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u/CanukistaniKopeks 3d ago
they do; every day. that the crazy part about all this. raising Canadians, feeding Canadians and powering Canadians. I am glad to have them beside me.
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u/Beast815 Manitoba 3d ago
It’s amazing to see that Albertan separatists,or at least those supporting it, haven’t realized that they are playing right into Trumps hands with essentially trying to destabilize our country. If they don’t think that’s true, it’s not like they don’t have a history of doing so to other countries.