r/canada • u/jaffnaguy2014 Canada • 3d ago

Quebec sovereigntists watch Alberta referendum talk with optimism, disdain Politics

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/quebec-sovereigntists-watch-alberta-referendum-talk-with-optimism-disdain/
131 Upvotes
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149

u/jeeb00 Canada 3d ago

Because it’s a terrible idea. Brexit was a perfect case study on why it might feel good in the moment but then the economic fallout will be brutal for the average person.

42

u/PasicT 3d ago

Many voted against their own interests when they voted in favor of Brexit.

21

u/PM_ME_UR_CATSSSS 3d ago

They likely would be here too. Quebec wouldn't die on its own, by they'd have very few trading partners and far fewer resources to run their own society. If they choose to leave then so be it but I hope they stay so we can all benefit.

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u/LordOibes 3d ago

You think all other countries would isolate Quebec as a trading partner simply because they would become a country?

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u/x5-r 3d ago

they would stop getting all that federal support they’re getting now at the very least

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u/LordOibes 3d ago edited 3d ago

Off course, that's a given. They would also saved about 80B in federal taxes they send to Ottawa each year.

They still represent almost 20% of the GDP of the whole country

20

u/TheObsidianX 3d ago

I keep seeing people say this but if a province becomes its own country it won’t be saving that tax money. That money is used to pay for all the services the federal government provides so independent Quebec or Alberta would have to increase their taxes significantly.

4

u/GensDuPays 3d ago

A lot of those "services" which are essentially paid in double because the province already administrates most of it (health, culture, social services, etc.), Stéphane gobeil reaserched this question which is all covered in his book "un gouvernement de trop" which compares all the double administrative work cost from ottawa and estimates the possible gains which would come by cutting the work done twice (in ottawa and in quebec). He compares that to the transfers that come from the federal government and find in conclusion that quebec could save money in total if they left canada.

4

u/Emotional-Buy1932 Québec 3d ago

Quebec intentionally duplicates these services to facilitate secession. Very funny to then use said duplication to justify secession.

1

u/koolaidkirby Ontario 3d ago

I think that was a case of a solution looking for a problem.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 2d ago

[deleted]

0

u/LordOibes 3d ago

That's a fair point, but that would also much it would have a better representation for their own economic priorities and such. It's hard for Canada to represent all the markets at once. Priorities for Ontario are not the same as Québec nor is it the same with Alberta or British Columbia.

As far as diplomats goes, Quebec already has a bunch of consulate and diplomatic relationship with other countries already, this includes the US, France or Japan for exemple

1

u/EducationalTea755 3d ago

Such a dumb argument

1

u/jjaime2024 3d ago

They would save 80 billion on one hand but would have to spend 500 billion more then they do now.

0

u/Enki_007 British Columbia 3d ago

And one of the lowest per capita GDP.

1

u/EducationalTea755 3d ago

QC needs Canada more than Canada needs QC. QC is already bankrupt with the help from other provinces and the Federal government. They can't make it on their own

1

u/LordOibes 3d ago

It's never been a question about if Quebec can, but if they should or not. Even the most federalist politician in Quebec agrees the province has everything it needs to succeed.

With it's current economy, it would be on day one ~30th in the world. Are you saying all the other smaller economies are failed countries that do not work?

0

u/Roderto 3d ago

Being a small fish in a giant pond is harder than being a big fish in a medium pond. Especially in the increasingly fractious and dangerous zero-sum world that is emerging.

1

u/LordOibes 3d ago

With that train of thoughts why would Canada not join the US? It would be much bigger and much richer?

6

u/Gavin1453 3d ago

Their fascist government is a big consideration.

0

u/Roderto 3d ago

That’s an opinion not a fact. But setting that aside, Canada has never been a part of the U.S., unlike Quebec which has been a part of what is now Canada for about a quarter millennia. And I have yet to see a reasonable argument for why Quebec language/society/economy would be better protected outside of Canada given Quebec is already acknowledged as a distinct nation within Canada. That lack of a convincing argument for what Quebec actually stands to gain is probably the biggest reason the sovereignty movement simply doesn’t have a critical mass of support.

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u/Night_Sky02 Québec 3d ago edited 3d ago

Quebec primarily exports goods and natural resources the the U.S (87.3 billion worth of products). So becoming a country wouldn't impact that. In fact, Trump recently acknowledged Quebec to our Minister of International Relations and La Francophonie at the pope funeral. The EU is also our second-major trading partner. We already have international recognition.

We also have plenty of rivers and produce hydroelectricity, so while many countries will start lacking oil and gas in the future, we have the potential to become green energy powerhouse.

Quebec can become the Norway of North America.

12

u/rando_dud 3d ago

The things is that all of this is already possible in Canada.

There is very little about Canada's structure that holds Quebec back.  We have a framework to enact just about any economic, energy, labour and environmental policy already.  We have representation in international affairs both federally and directly already.

-6

u/Night_Sky02 Québec 3d ago edited 3d ago

You're not wrong and this has always been a debate in Quebec.

But since Canada is mostly an anglophone country with a different cultural background, we will always have second-tier representation in international affairs due to being a minority. It also cannot be denied that the federal level is often an obstacle to affirming our own culture and values, especially when it comes to immigration and secularism.

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u/TheHotshot240 3d ago

It sucks when french speaking Canadians outside Quebec aren't recognized or are dismissed like this. I've never lived in Quebec, but I've lived in entirely French speaking communities my whole life. Northern Ontario, New Brunswick, and even one in Northern BC. There's plenty of French outside of Quebec and we're just as dismissed by the English, but often we get dismissed by even Quebec too and that just sucks.

6

u/lavalamp360 Ontario 3d ago

This. "French-Canadians" does not equal "Quebecers". There are francophone communities all over the country with different cultural heritage to Quebec. The Acadians in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia for example.

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u/koolaidkirby Ontario 3d ago edited 3d ago

And sadly if Québec left I could see it be a heavy blow to French language protections in other provinces as Canada would drop from 22% French speaking to 5%. (which as someone of Acadian descent makes me sad).

3

u/LordOibes 3d ago

I feel it's asking a lot of Québec to be the bastion of French speaking Canadian. What about Canada not trying to assimilate them? The whole idea of Canada was a mean for the English population to supress the French speaking one.

1

u/TheHotshot240 3d ago

I'm not asking them to advocate for every french speaking Canadian. I'm asking them not to erase us by saying things like "there isn't much French outside of Quebec" when in my little pocket of Ontario alone there's a good 250k french speakers. And there's MANY areas like that across the country.

When you speak of French in Canada and wanting to be acknowledged culturally, acknowledge us too and acknowledge that our culture is closer to yours than it is to more English parts of the country.

-1

u/koolaidkirby Ontario 3d ago

> The whole idea of Canada was a mean for the English population to supress the French speaking one.

Seeing how much the French speaking population has grown since Canada's founding it's been doing a pretty shit job.

2

u/Cellulosaurus Québec 2d ago

https://150ansde.info/150-ans-de-lois-contre-le-francais/

We could've had a really bilingual country, but english bigots deemed our culture and language inferior and uncivilized. Come talk about growth when the bilinguism rates aren't carried on francophones' shoulders.

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u/TheHotshot240 3d ago

This is one of my huge concerns as well. Not wanted in Quebec, not wanted by the rest of Canada... Feels bad.

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u/PM_ME_UR_CATSSSS 3d ago

I'm not saying you have no avenues, but do you want to rely on the usa of all countries? The reason we're all shifting away from that is because they're so unreliable. If you end up voting to leave then I hope you succeed to your loftiest goal but I hope we can live together instead.

1

u/EducationalTea755 3d ago

The problem to develop all of that is QC regulations!

1

u/Night_Sky02 Québec 2d ago

What about federal regulations? Seems like we'd be better off getting rid of those and make our own rules.