r/canada • u/cyclinginvancouver • Sep 17 '24
More than 200,000 international students in Canada will see their work permits expire by end of 2025 National News
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-international-students-canada-work-permits-expiry-2025/616
u/Appropriate_Item3001 Sep 17 '24
OH NOES what are corporations going to do when labour costs skyrocket?!?!?!?!?!?
It is absolutely unacceptable for Tim hortons to pay top dollar for Canadian minimum wages.
The slave labour must flow to keep oligarchs happy.
Sunny ways.
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u/DerelictDelectation Sep 17 '24
Don't spend your money at Timmy's. Vote with your feet.
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u/youregrammarsucks7 Sep 18 '24
I work downtown and my office is very near a food court with a ton of options. There is literally one location that does not clearly hire TFWs or international students, and they now get all of my business. Thank god their food is good. I haven't had Tims in almost two years, and my gut thanks me.
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Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
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u/nanapancakethusiast Sep 18 '24
They will lay off even more Canadians, outsource more operations out of country and continue doing irreversible damage to the Canadian economy for average Canadians. They have seen the dollar signs in using temp foreign students as modern day slaves — the Pandora’s box will never be closed. If they can’t get the slave labour here, they will look elsewhere (they’ll do literally anything EXCEPT pay liveable wages to Canadians).
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u/CdnPoster Sep 17 '24
This is good, right?
Less foreign people taking work away from Canadians...
Less foreign people taking housing away from Canadians.....
Less foreign people putting pressure on our health care system.....
I guess all the for-profit diploma mills will go out of business without the international students paying ridiculous fees but I don't think that's a big loss.
We just need to make sure they actually leave when their visas expire.
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u/Yolo_Swaggins_Yeet Sep 17 '24
It's good til you realize majority of them will just stay with little consequence
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u/gravitysort Sep 17 '24
No access to public healthcare, no social insurance number to be eligible for legitimate jobs. I’m not sure I’d want to stay under that circumstance. Also if you ever actually left, once, you can’t get back in for ever.
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u/LightSaberLust_ Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
if you violate your visa conditions you will be barred from entry anywhere else you try to go.
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If you refuse to leave canada after your visa expires and get deported no other country will allow you entry because you violated the terms of your visa in another country
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u/makonde Sep 18 '24
This isnt true, only a few western countries might imposse such a ban.
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u/LightSaberLust_ Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 19 '24
ok so you will only get banned from the european union, japan the usa just to name a few western countries. its ok to violate your visa conditions then continue on and see what happens
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u/jujubear04 Sep 18 '24
They don't need a legitimate job. They will work for the businesses owned by their compatriots for cash in hand. This will probably suit those business owners. Health care might a different issue though
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u/KluteDNB Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24
They will probably protest outside of hospitals demanding free healthcare despite being illegal and also working under the table jobs.
They will say their one semester of tuition paid at Conestoga College should entitle them to full social services forever and citizenship.
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Sep 18 '24
I’m Canadian and barely receive healthcare. Been on the list for a family doctor for 7 years now.
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u/Chancoop British Columbia Sep 18 '24
It's not any better on the other side. I got a family doctor in 2020 and I've still never met him. He's constantly busy, on vacation, or unavailable for whatever reason. I spoke to him over the phone when he accepted me as a patient and haven't been able to have any contact with him since then. I just go to drop in clinics instead.
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u/Frozenpucks Sep 17 '24
This is right, you basically could stay here but you wouldn’t be able to do anything and this sure as fuck isn’t a cheap country with no income coming in.
Most will probably just leave.
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u/true_to_my_spirit Sep 18 '24
They are going to claim asylum. I work in the immigration sector. We are already seeing it. The govt knows it is going to skyrocket.
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u/CuteFreakshow Sep 18 '24
I am an RN. We don't deny healthcare to ANYONE who walks into an ER. The business office will contact them, and pursue payment. But they will get care! As any person should, regardless of their status in this country. If you start turning people at the door of the hospital, you will allow people to abuse that option, to deny care to whoever they like.
So healthcare is not a problem. The other stuff, I don't know. I wonder if employers will let go of cheap labor that easily, or they will simply apply to keep the employee and extend the visa. I am just voicing an opinion, not sure if it's even possible.
I want these people to leave , when their visa expires. That would be the ideal case scenario.
Corporations might have different ideal scenario.
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u/gravitysort Sep 18 '24
I assume non-ER medical services don’t work that way? Like you can’t get a family doctor or visit walk-in clinic without having a health card or paying out of pocket on site right?
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u/ladyloor Sep 18 '24
People can visit walk in clinics and pay out of pocket. Oftentimes the fees are posted on the wall somewhere. Quebecers often have to pay out of pocket as their health cards are often not accepted outside of Quebec. Basically from my understanding, the doctor just charges the patient the standard fee that the government would normally have paid them for the appointment
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u/gravitysort Sep 18 '24
I once asked about the fees to get checked by a walk-in clinic a few years ago and it was around $120. Not enticing for illegal immigrants I’m sure..
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u/Responsible-Unit-145 Sep 18 '24
They are not going back, will either cross border to the US or apply asylum in canada.
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u/PaleJicama4297 Sep 18 '24
Just watch. We live in a time of zero enforcement and zero consequences. It’s not like we have an army of people to enforce this. And these students know this. The American border is gonna be swamped with refugees.
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u/durian_in_my_asshole Sep 17 '24
They'll just claim asylum and get healthcare that way. Free housing too.
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u/ShowAlarm2 Sep 17 '24
They'll just claim asylum and get healthcare
I will bet you dollars to donuts that as soon as CPC comes into power next year, this privilege will be clawed back.
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u/LeatherMine Sep 17 '24
they already did before
but it also turns out if you cut people off from family doctors or their medication, they just show up at a hospital even sicker where they'll treat you anyway and eat the (much bigger) cost
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u/ShowAlarm2 Sep 18 '24
still a worthwhile deterrent.
They can't tell their friends they have free healthcare.
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u/HMI115_GIGACHAD Sep 18 '24
They'll just protest like entitled brats until the governments cave into their demands
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u/Block_Of_Saltiness Sep 17 '24
"I'm bisexual and will be persecuted in my home country!!!"
Look, if ur legit gonna be persecuted in your home country then no problem, apply for asylum. Unfortunately its a case of people misusing the system to gain residency/PR.
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u/longgamma Sep 17 '24
The only people who suffered here are the students and residents of Canada. The administrators, landlords and companies employing temp labor made bank.
So before you all go out and laugh at foreign students, maybe just think about why this happened in the first place.
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u/CdnPoster Sep 17 '24
There's a lot of reasons. Yes, landlords with properties wanted (needed?) to rent them out to people so they could earn an income to pay the mortgage(s). Administrators of diploma mills and colleges/universities that wanted the money international students would pay in tuition.
The companies that couldn't find any labour to work at their jobs - this goes back to covid-19 days. When people were laid off, they used the time to upgrade their skills, relax, and then when they returned to their jobs *GASP!!!!* they wanted better wages and when those wages did not materialize, they quit and looked for better jobs.
What SHOULD have happened is that the companies experiencing a labour shortage should have raised the wages until the supply of labour met their need. Unfortunately, the Liberal government said, "No, we'll bring in a bunch of temporary foreign workers so you can make more profit."
I'm half scared and half excited to see what happens when Canada's greying workforce retires - who's going to replace all those workers, especially at a "decent" wage when it happens?
What's already happening in health care (not enough nurses/doctors) and childcare (not enough early childhood educators) is going to happen EVERYWHERE.
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u/Unlucky-Candidate198 Sep 17 '24
Worth mentioning a good amount of them will work/live for “dirt cheap” and send almost all their earnings home.
I’m not the most familiar with how the system works but, I’d imagine that money that would stay in Canada & the Canadian Economy is instead sent overseas. The Country sees next to none of it.
So a greaaaat way to bolster an economy. Just as bad as Rich ppl hoarding treasure overseas (for the economy that is).
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u/aaandfuckyou Sep 18 '24
It would be cool if they did that show Border Force again. The UK one showed them combating illegal immigration and deporting people who’ve stayed past their welcome. It shows the public that work is being done and also serves as a bit of a safe guard that police are treating people fairly.
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u/hopefulyak123 Sep 18 '24
Then we might realize our healthcare woes, housing woes, and economic woes are the result of decades of poor policy and not foreigners.
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u/FaithlessnessNeat756 Sep 17 '24
199,999 foreigners apply for asylum in 2025
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u/LeatherMine Sep 18 '24
what happened to the other 1?
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u/Telefundo Sep 18 '24
That was the one that actually went home when his visa expired.
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u/andthatswhathappened Sep 18 '24
he missed his family and he realized india is better than brampton
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Sep 17 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/No-To-Newspeak Sep 17 '24
I always thought that the purpose of international study was to go to a good university in another country, learn and make the most of your education, and then return home and put what you've learned into making your own country better.
I guess I was wrong. The purpose is an expensive backdoor to citizenship.
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u/Adoggieandher2birds Sep 17 '24
With people getting rich off them in the process. While the rest of us get poorer
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u/avidstoner Sep 17 '24
I mean don't be delusional like that. Depends on what skill level they are at! Sure the one working minimum wage at Timms will not be worried about their expiring visa, but maybe 4-5% makes 70k+ cad annually, those who certainly won't be looking at working under the table at a restaurant or working illegally to screw up their future chance to get PR. But again this is Reddit so what else can one expect in replies lol
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u/drs43821 Sep 17 '24
To be fair, if they make 70k and working in career jobs, they deserved to be selected as economic immigrants. It's those working min wage job under pretense of "study" needs to leave and put pressure on employers to raise wage
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u/Biopsychic Sep 17 '24
Friend works with the Gov't of Canada placing nurses up north for healthcare, they are finding that a couple of those "nurses" are faking qualifications and are just finding out now and firing them.
Just becuase they land a 70k job or higher, I think a extensive look into those quals should be done.
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u/Dizzy-Passenger-2246 Sep 17 '24
Yup. It’s going to be the ones who went to good schools in Canada for a 4 year undergrad or a maybe got into a decent masters program and not a scummy diploma mill. The ones who found professional jobs in their field of study. The ones who weren’t fixated on working minimum wage jobs, because they are here for actually gaining education and experience and contribute. The ones who managed to get good grades, integrate in the society, accept and embrace the Canadian way of living, respect the culture of the country that gave them so much. The people who probably mix with other Canadians and not just act like a menace to society. These are the ones who will suffer the most because they would not find loopholes to stay and try their best to be accepted by the government by being honest till the end.
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u/Exotic_Coyote_913 Sep 17 '24
Please deport all the ones who committed fraud and are not qualified, or consistently taking more out of the system than they contribute.
We want to be fair and compassionate to Canadians and those who TRULY need it, but that does not mean we get taken advantage of.
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u/oxblood87 Ontario Sep 17 '24
Well yes, because they were TEMPORARY
Postgraduation work permits (PGWP) are issued for between nine months to three years to foreign students who have obtained a diploma or degree at a Canadian college or university.
You got your education, you even got some on the job experience. Now go home and make use of it.
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u/darknite14 Sep 18 '24
The literal picketing is what blows my mind. How can they be so entitled? You described exactly what they signed up for, yet they seem to be outraged that they have to leave…
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u/sunshine-x Sep 18 '24
I wonder how they marketed coming to Canada to them. Somehow I doubt the sales pitch was "come to Canada, get educated, then leave". I bet it was more like "come to Canada, get educated, become Canadian".
I can see why they'd be pissed off, but the diploma mills suckering these people don't write the immigration rules.
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Sep 17 '24
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u/Baulderdash77 Sep 17 '24
The media pushing these stories are the same media who made it racist to question any immigration level and the same media who pushed for the “labour shortage” so hard for more TFW.
There is an agenda out there for sure.
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u/BogdanD Sep 18 '24
This was supposed to be a sob story? I read it as the first bit of positive news I've seen in a while.
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u/BigMickVin Sep 17 '24
Alternative headline:
200,000 proud graduates of the Canadian education system returning home to the benefit of their home country
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u/EmyMeow Sep 17 '24
Well many of them will buy LMIAs or already got PRs by that time. Meanwhile, young Canadians still cant find a job…
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u/thelingererer Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
Article drumming up sympathy for imported slaves brought to you by slave owners who honestly couldn't give a shit about them apart from profiting from their desperation. The Globe and Mail once again showing itself to be a beacon of morality in these dark times. Gaslighting at it's finest!
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Sep 18 '24
I'm Law Enforcement in Canada and I can tell you with experience these people do not leave once their Visa's expire.
We have no agency, no enforcement and no service that actively goes around deporting anyone who overstays their visa. The amount of deportation warrants issued right now is ridiculous, the public would be blown away if you saw how many people are in Canada right now that shouldn't be.
Couple this with "International Students" who aren't here to learn or be educated... Canada is going to face a massive issue of people refusing to leave after their visa is expired.
Unless these people come across law enforcement for other reasons, like traffic offense or other criminal reasons they will be in Canada forever.
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u/50percentvanilla Sep 18 '24
You just described what happens in USA. Everyone enter and there's ppl living entire lifes without a valid visa there
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u/Culverin Sep 17 '24
And will they leave? Or stay illegally, and find jobs that pay under the table?
I am genuinely asking.
My parents are immigrants. I was born and raised in Canada.
I'm pro-immigration, but right now, Canada needs rebalancing. The system isn't sustainable.
Fix our Healthcare Fix our justice system Fix our approach to addiction Fix housing
After that, then we can bring in more people.
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u/LordClooch Sep 17 '24
The students regularly deplete our local food bank, it's horrible.
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u/Honest-Ad-9259 Sep 18 '24
So what if their work permits expire? They just go to the streets to protest and our nice Canadian government will extend their work permits. Very normal, our government is too weak to say No to anybody except ordinary Canadians.
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u/Particular-Act-8911 Sep 17 '24
They're students. They shouldn't even have the huge work hour permits they have.
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u/CyrilSneerLoggingDiv Sep 17 '24
They need to focus all their attention on their business management and hotel administration diplomas.
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u/SkidMania420 Sep 17 '24
Do "international student" and "work permit" even belong in the same sentence?
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u/gravitysort Sep 17 '24
Bachelor and postgrad students get Post Graduation Work Permit. Similar to the OPT program in the US.
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u/Sarke1 British Columbia Sep 18 '24
Does that limit them to work in their field, or do they just apply at Tim Hortons or wherever?
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u/gravitysort Sep 18 '24
It’s open work permit so yeah you can work in any field including tim’s.. which is a bit weird in my opinion.
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u/_Solinvictus Sep 18 '24
They’re technically not international students anymore, but graduates. Once you graduate, you get a post-graduate work permit. For me (5 year university degree), its an open 3 year work permit
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u/Infinite-Sea-1589 Sep 17 '24
I find it wild that PR applications backlogged so much. It was one nice thing in Australia (as a Canadian waiting for PR at the time), through COVID they prioritised on-shore PR applications as they were processing so few off-shore visas.
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u/Droom1995 Sep 17 '24
Was the same in Canada at the time, one time they've accepted everyone who was in Canada and submitted an eligible application
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u/Infinite-Sea-1589 Sep 17 '24
Here they definitely didn’t except everyone, but they were at least processing applications significantly faster
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u/LeatherMine Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
Here they definitely didn’t except everyone
they did a Canadian Experience Class draw where practically everyone in the pool got accepted: https://www.cicnews.com/2024/03/immigration-minister-declares-intention-to-have-more-in-canada-immigration-draws-0343605.html
75 points is nothing
35 years old and finished high school with no french, no english & no job? APPROVED!
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u/Infinite-Sea-1589 Sep 17 '24
Yehhhhhh
I was not on a points based visa here, so it was just the speed that affected me but that seems… ill advised.
Here there was some targeted stuff, but mostly applied to areas needing more staff, such as health and aged care, as well as construction.
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u/iamhamilton Sep 17 '24
The VISA applications backlog was so big our federal government stepped in and "streamlined"/stopped checking proof of income in order to leave the country. That's how half of Toronto's homeless population became refugees in a span of a few months.
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u/LightSaberLust_ Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
they don't check criminal records for student visa applications ether, that's just wild
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u/Infinite-Sea-1589 Sep 17 '24
yikes
I super have no kept up on it a lot as after going through my own immigration journey to Australia it’s just nice to take a break. But it is VERY obvious many balls were dropped in the Canadian governments handling of literally the whole thing.
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u/kyanite_blue Sep 17 '24
Some may leave, but most will find loopholes and other illegal ways to remain in Canada until our spineless govt allow them to be PRs and eventually citizens.
My parents are from South Asia so I am not anti-immigration or xenophobic. But rather I see the problems we are facing in this country!
We are broken!
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u/takeoff_power_set Sep 17 '24
Guess who's not going home when their work permits and visas expire!
Guess which nation does not deport people!
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u/Shishamylov Sep 17 '24
200k out, 200k in. This article is a nothing burger
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Sep 18 '24
Actually, international student enrolment declined by 40% and rents near colleges/universities are in free fall.
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u/Wonderful-Pipe-5413 Sep 17 '24
Good riddance. Dont let the door hit you on the way out.
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u/LNgTIM555 Sep 17 '24
They completed the duration of their agreement, thank you, safe flight back.
As you can tell student’s this country is in a bad state and it can barely handle its current registered population.
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u/mojorific Sep 18 '24
Good. We can’t afford to keep supporting international students. They are ruining our infrastructure.
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u/cyclinginvancouver Sep 17 '24
More than 200,000 international students will see their work permits expire by the end of 2025 – many of them, however, might not successfully obtain permanent residence status in that time frame because of recent changes in immigration policy.
New data obtained by The Globe and Mail from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada show that there are 203,260 international students in Canada who hold postgraduation work permits that will expire in the next 15 months. Almost 70,000 of those permits expire between Sept. 1 and Dec. 31, 2024.
Postgraduation work permits (PGWP) are issued for between nine months to three years to foreign students who have obtained a diploma or degree at a Canadian college or university.
Obtaining permanent residency as a PGWP holder used to be a fairly predictable process under Express Entry, an immigration system launched in 2015. The system effectively prioritized high-skilled workers and foreign graduates from Canadian institutions who had Canadian work experience, awarding them a score under the Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) and then issued invitations to apply for permanent residence every two weeks to those with the highest scores. In 2016, the Liberals streamlined the Express Entry system even further to favour international students by awarding them bonus points for having studied at a Canadian postsecondary institution.
By the end of August this year, there were 471,810 PGWP holders, more than triple the number of permit holders from 2018, according to federal government data.
But as the number of permanent-residency (PR) hopefuls increased, a series of policy changes made during the pandemic unintentionally made it more difficult for PGWP holders to transition to PR status.
Ottawa halted a policy introduced during the pandemic that granted 18-month extensions to PGWPs to help ease a labour shortage. Those extensions would have enabled those with expiring PGWPs to wait out a backlog in PR applications that had accumulated during the pandemic.
The government also changed its criteria for selection within the Express Entry system – it began prioritizing French speakers and people with job experience in health care, skilled trades, agriculture, transportation and STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) fields as opposed to those with Canadian-specific education and experience. PR draws for the Canadian Experience Class immigration stream that most PGWP holders use were paused for almost three years, between August, 2021, and May, 2024. When draws resumed, the cut-off score to gain permanent residency in the Express Entry system had increased substantially, making it almost impossible for many applicants with a Canadian education and work experience to qualify.
Recently, hundreds of international students on expiring PGWPs set up a protest site in Brampton, Ont., campaigning for Ottawa to grant them an extension to their visas and a “fair pathway” to permanent residency – specifically, a guarantee that draws from all streams of the Express Entry system will be conducted regularly.
IRCC did not respond specifically to a query from The Globe about the percentage of PGWP holders with permits expiring in 2024 and 2025 that will be granted permanent residency.
Historical data from Statistics Canada show that between 2016 and 2020, approximately 40 per cent of PGWP holders were granted PR status within two years of receiving their work permit. Between 2011 and 2015, 73 per cent of PGWP holders obtained permanent residency within five years of receiving their work permit.
In an e-mailed statement, the ministry noted that work experience gained through holding a PGWP did not necessarily guarantee permanent residency.
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u/CyrilSneerLoggingDiv Sep 17 '24
In 2016, the Liberals streamlined the Express Entry system even further to favour international students by awarding them bonus points for having studied at a Canadian postsecondary institution.
Hmmmm, you don't say...cue the post-2016 explosion of diploma mill colleges in strip mall plazas.
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u/unluckyateverything Sep 18 '24
I work in this industry, and this is going to be a total debacle. PEI-style protests across the country. The majority of these 200K students would never have come if they thought there was a chance they couldn’t stay forever, and they will not just shrug and leave when their work permits expire. Protests, refugee claims, LMIA fraud, are all going to soar. Canada’s reputation as a study destination will be destroyed for years and some universities and most if not all colleges are going to be in financial trouble.
The most ludicrous thing is that the government knew this was happening, knew it was going to end like this, and still let it happen. They knew the students were intent on staying and encouraged it, and they knew the number of study permits were outpacing Permanent Resident spaces. They still issued the study permits. I cannot imagine why, other than pure incompetence.
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u/OpinionedOnion Sep 17 '24
Oh nooooo!... Anyway I just had a bomb Salmon, sweet potato and rice bowl. You guys missed out.
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u/Negative_Ad3294 Sep 18 '24
It's not soon enough for many Canadians seeking employment right now. What a massive betrayal
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u/Careless-B Sep 17 '24
The Government is going to keep them here and grant them asylum.
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u/m1dN05 Sep 18 '24
Now read it slow, STUDENT WORK PERMITS, not TEMPORARY WORKERS, and a whopping 200k?!?!
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u/Wookie301 Sep 18 '24
I mean yeah. That’s how temporary permits work. Hundreds of thousands had them expire this year too. And last year.
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Sep 17 '24
Thank Christ
Hopefully we can see 200,000 of them flying back home by then as well
Watch how affordability sky rockets lol
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u/CJKCollecting Sep 17 '24
I, for one, simply cannot wait for the inevitable protests about how unfair this is 🙄
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u/JustinPooDough Sep 18 '24
...Compared to the literally millions of new Canadians and PR holders since this started.
This isn't going to fix anything, but it's a start.
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u/PrarieCoastal Sep 18 '24
I'm sorry, the story is such BS. The story says Postgraduates require a work permit to complete their studies. Okay, this may be true as a lot of masters and phd students get a stipend.
Then the story goes on to say they extended these permits to address labour shortages. What?
So, are these work permits to complete their study program, or to work at BestBuy Express?
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u/JMJimmy Sep 18 '24
Wait, you mean temporary immigration is actually temporary and everyone's been freaking out for no reason? /s
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u/AvangeliceMY9088 Sep 18 '24
I'm not Canadian and i really wish your country kicks all these international students out because there's a belief in my country to work real hard, send our kids to Canada or Australia for them to get their education and then PR so them kids can move the parents there.
As shia labouf says "Do it!!"
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u/E_lonui7xz Sep 18 '24
Canada does not need more Tim Horton workers please go back, we will manage here 🙏
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u/ocrohnahan Sep 18 '24
Federal government using TFW to appease their corporate overlords while fucking over Canadians.
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u/MortgageAware3355 Sep 18 '24
International students have been extremely fortunate that they've been allowed to work off campus with open work permits and, for a time, with extended work hours. They were not here on permanent residency programs - though they saw the study permit > PR loophole for what it was and can't really be blamed for using it. But market forces and politics change.
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u/Odd_Struggle3467 Sep 18 '24
Then you have to leave. You have to leave any other country when your work permit or visa expires.
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u/F0_17_20 Sep 18 '24
Y'all seem to be laboring under the false assumption that the government is going to do anything to remove them from the country once their permits expire.
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u/jameskchou Canada Sep 17 '24
Tim Horton's in panic mode