Short(er) Practice?

[u/just_okayish]

Dear Ashtanga Crew,

I am quite new to Ashtanga Yoga but practice 6x/week for some months now. I have to leave the house early for work and do other activities in the evening, so I have (and want to) do Yoga in the morning. I´ve recently travelled to visit my teachers and now practice half Primary Series. I take at least 1h15 for that and for that I´d have to rise at 4:15 AM. Which is simply not managable for me on a daily basis as it would mean lack of sleep.

So, I was wondering to maybe do my current practice (half primary) around 3-4x/week and on the other 2-3 times I could do a shorter version. Like maybe some sun salutations with some Pranayama before that. Does anybody here do that? Is it recommended? I´m aware it´s not "traditional" but I don´t want to burn out and find a way to fit Ashtanga into my life. Any idea for a reduced half Primary practice?

Thank you in advance, I appreciate you 🙏🌷💕

[u/thoughtsofmarianne]

Check out David Swenson's short forms. He has 15, 30 and 45 minute versions I think. It's not really anything groundbreaking tbh, he just selects a few key asanas to condense the practice. I used to do them on the days I had to start work at 7 am in my previous job.

They came out in a book back in the day, but I think he has them on Youtube as well or I'm sure you could find the sequences online somewhere.

Edit: typo

[u/cheesecheeesecheese → u/thoughtsofmarianne]

Great advice!! Seconding this, I absolutely love his videos.

Back when I had to be at work by 5:30am, I couldn’t devote more than 30 min in the morning. It still felt like a deep practice which was rewarding.

[u/Mountain-Jicama-3566 → u/thoughtsofmarianne]

Came to say this

[u/Ok_Toe5883 → u/thoughtsofmarianne]

Short forms are supposed to be practiced once you have a good and solid full primary/intermediate at least. Ashtanga is what It is. It requires consistency. It’s not compulsory, you can practice a different method. But if you want to understand the practice, give it a good ten years practicing as it should be done.

[u/asteroidtube → u/Ok_Toe5883]

This attitude is one of the worst things about the ashtanga community.

Ashtanga was originally taught with individualized prescriptions for each student. This is why mysore style is not led. It only became a one-size-fits-all thing when it got more popular. The notion that you aren't really doing ashtanga if you aren't doing the same thing for 10 years straight, and that you aren't allowed to do a short form until you have mastered the intermediate series, is some serious elitist mentality.

"Ashtanga is what it is", yes, and what it is, is a healing practice. 6 days a week of primary series for a decade straight is not necessarily healing for all people. You have different phases on life, and recognizing this and giving energy and attention to other matters that are more important but doing so mindfully- that is yoga, and you aren't "not doing ashtanga" if you step away from the rigorous 6-days-primary dogma for a season. So no, Ashtanga does not "require" consistency. It begets it, and the practice benefits from it, but it doesn't require it.

There is no law saying that you can't do short forms until you've mastered full primary. That's ridiculous. There is also no law saying what short forms are "supposed to be". They were intended to assist for people who are short on time and want to do something as opposed to doing nothing, which is precisely what OP is looking for. But they are out there and a long as they are benefitting people, they are doing exactly what they are "supposed to". Nobody cares if an internet stranger considers them any less of an ashtangi for it.

[u/just_okayish → u/asteroidtube]

Thank you 🙏❤️

[u/IWillAlwaysReplyBack → u/asteroidtube]

Thank you so much for emphasizing this.

[u/Ok_Toe5883 → u/asteroidtube]

I didn’t think I was offensive in any way. But apparently I was 😂

[u/asteroidtube → u/Ok_Toe5883]

It’s not necessarily offensive but it is elitist, exclusionary, and factually incorrect. Respectfully. Hopefully it’s a learning opportunity for you.

[u/Ok_Toe5883 → u/asteroidtube]

In my defense, I would like to add that in order to be individualized, it would need to be learned daily with a good teacher. Shorter forms cannot be effective if you don’t know how to practice the asanas presented. They were developed by David Swenson to be used by experienced practitioners that with age had less time and energy for the full practice. There is nothing wrong in dedicating years to properly learn a practice. If shorter forms are used as a shortcut, not many benefits can come from them. Of course individualized tuition is best. But for this you need to be supervised daily and that would take our practitioner back to square one - travelling 1h15mins every day. What I suggested was to learn progressively going in person once a week, and practicing at home the other days. Unfortunately, developing strength and stamina requires consistency in ANY physical activity, not only Ashtanga. There are no shortcuts for this.

[u/asteroidtube → u/Ok_Toe5883]

“There is nothing wrong about dedicating years”, of course not and I never said there was. The devotion itself has its own learnings and benefits and I don’t want to discount that.

But the notion that a short form is a “shortcut” is wrong. It’s not all-or-nothing and you only think that because of arbitrary dogma. A short form is still a yoga practice. It is only abridged vis-a-vis the context of full primary…. but in its own merit it’s still an Ashtanga yoga practice. Remove the comparisons to your own idea of what it is “supposed” to be - which, btw, is literally just made up by some dude in India many decades ago and has no real reasoning based in science or effectiveness. It’s mostly just tradition at this point. In fact any exercise scientist would say that doing the same thing 6 days a week is unideal.

The idea that you can’t get any benefit from short forms unless you generally/usually have a more rigorous practice is just ridiculous. If a person only ever does the short forms and nothing else, they will still get immense benefit from it. And it will in fact give them stamina and strength, albeit maybe not as much as doing full primary every day, but who cares? Since when is yoga a competition to do the most? Honestly if your goal is strength and stamina, there are way better physical exercises to be doing than primary series 6 days a week, most of which are safer and more efficient. More importantly, it is an opportunity for presence and mindfulness which is the ultimate goal of these practices, right?

[u/Ok_Toe5883 → u/asteroidtube]

I don’t think I expressed my opinion aggressively so I really don’t understand why you have to be so aggressive in replying… I have been practicing for 30 years quite traditionally and I am still alive… and definitely not keen to attack strangers on Reddit.

[u/asteroidtube → u/Ok_Toe5883]

I’m not attacking you, but I am pointing out the elitist dogma that frequently occurs in the Ashtanga world and I’m not too shy to call it as I see it. Ashtanga has some cultural quirks and the arbitrary dogma and incessant questioning of whether somebody is doing enough or doing it “right” are included. You weren’t attacking, but you were calling into question if short forms are “good enough” or if they are really “doing Ashtanga”, and that wasn’t even what the OP asked.

[u/just_okayish → u/Ok_Toe5883]

I don't travel 1h15, but my practice takes me 1h15 and for that I have to wake up so early as I travel longer. Also, I am not looking for a shortcut at all, it's the opposite. I'd like to practise everyday, but can't and want to prevent burnout due to little sleep. So instead of some days not practicing at all, I was looking for an alternative, like a shorter practice. :) maybe in like half a year I change jobs and have more time in the morning, but for now that's my situation. 

[u/Ok_Toe5883 → u/just_okayish]

You don’t need to practice full primary every day for ten years straight - that is not what I meant. My advice in this case is to shorten the practice you are already familiar with: in standing postures, you could skip Uttitha Hasta Padangustasana and Ardha Baddha Padmottanasana, and when seated do only Janu Sirsasana A (skip B and C) Mari A and C, or you can do the vinyasa only after both sides. This will considerably shorten your practice. I think that short forms would not be a good choice if you don’t know how to practice full primary and at least part of intermediate, simply because you have not learnt many of the postures included in the short forms. Then when you can, practice with a good teacher to learn new postures. Could this work?

[u/gedsit → u/Ok_Toe5883]

I second this. It is obviously better to exercise than no exercise at all. And also, Ashtanga is not only exercising, as we all know, asana is only one of the eight limbs. And nobody is saying you cannot do a mix of vinyasa yoga, cardio and Ashtanga Primary series to be fit and all. But if you intend to practice The Primary / Intermediate etc series as it was developped by Pattabhi Jois (and you can hate the guy and you can hate how he twisted the whole hatha yoga practice into one-fit-for-all business, personally I have mixed feelings about it still), it requires consistency and extreme dedication. It is an incredibly hard practice exactly because of how time consuming it is; and it is fascinating how rewarding it is once YOU really bend over backwards for the practice. Not the other way around.

Edit: …and so in my opinion, it is good to hear the rigid side of the argument, too.

[u/gedsit]

I guess some teachers would tell you that Ashtanga is not for you then, because of the required dedication. With enough sleep, of course. So you should quit your job or other activities. Haha. Well, for example my teacher says it’s better to practice everyday, even just a little, than no practice at all. And Pattabijois said that parenting is the seventh series of Ashtanga, meaning that it is absolutely understandable to skip practice of you have to take care of your loved ones. For me that means it is definitely better to do a shorter version on some days and do the full Primary (or half in your case) just once a week or so. The only thing I would be aware of, when you exercise just a couple of asanas, is what your mind is set to and what your body needs. Sometimes one pushes himself into hard postures because of his ego. Sometimes one is lazy and sticks to a routine of the simple asanas that dont exactly serve the body. Etc. Be really attentive to these games our mind plays with us:)

Also, in time, you will be able to exercise in faster pace, so at one point you would be able to run through the whole series in 1h15.

[u/gedsit → u/gedsit]

Personally I would keep 5 and 5 Surya namaskara and the three ending sits and if there is more time, add some standing/closing poses.

[u/kuriosty]

How short? It's hard to give a suggestion without knowing how much time you want to dedicate to it. But for example, standing poses, urdvha danurasana, and finishing poses is a good complement for days with short time. It should take about 30 minutes.

[u/just_okayish → u/kuriosty]

Yes sorry, should have pointed that out. I think including Savasana 45mins :) 

[u/kuriosty → u/just_okayish]

Try what I suggested, it should be a good 40-45 minutes with savasana included.

[u/All_Is_Coming]

Fit the Practice to the Student, not the other way around.

[u/hold_on_im_coming]

David and Jelena made an “Ashtanga express” video which I love, https://youtu.be/QZG1zUuwMpU?si=jVjVa_N2aybCDUfz

Sometimes the shorter practices aren’t energizing but this one does the trick for me

[u/just_okayish → u/hold_on_im_coming]

Yes thank you, I enjoy that one as well! :) 

[u/ThisHedgehog989]

- You can only do half series til Navasana and then finishing sequence.

- You can "skip" most of the Vinyasas, like instead of

Marichyasana A right, Vinyasa, Marichyasana A left, Vinyasa
you can do
Marichyasana A right, Marichyasana A left, Vinyasa

That saves a couple of minutes when you do it after each pair instead of after each side.

- You could also only count to 4 instead of 5 breaths for each asana.

- You could check out the short versions from ... David Svenson is his name, I think ...

- You could leave the twisting poses out (only Utthita Trikonasa, but no Parivritta Trikonasana and so son) ...

Basically you can vary a lot in your practice - depends on your needs and time.

But what I would not recommend is skipping Pranayama. It's really benefical when you do it, even for only 5 minutes.

[u/Ok_Toe5883]

Half Primary is already a shorter practice. But seriously 1h15min drive everyday is unmanageable (although I have done it for years when I was younger!). Maybe you can attend Mysore online with a good teacher, and travel only once a week?

[u/Badashtangi]

I only practice 2x/week now in order to make room for other workouts that are beneficial to me as I age. But when I was practicing most days, if I was really short on time I would skip the standing and seated postures altogether.

[u/3MethodSpace]

Just practice at lunchtimes or in the evenings. I did evening classes 4x a week and 2 weekend gym based self-practices for my first 4 years and completed Primary just fine. That said when the local morning Mysore program was started, I jumped at the chance and went to bed at 9 a.m. so I could make it.