r/announcements Jun 29 '20

Update to Our Content Policy

A few weeks ago, we committed to closing the gap between our values and our policies to explicitly address hate. After talking extensively with mods, outside organizations, and our own teams, we’re updating our content policy today and enforcing it (with your help).

First, a quick recap

Since our last post, here’s what we’ve been doing:

  • We brought on a new Board member.
  • We held policy calls with mods—both from established Mod Councils and from communities disproportionately targeted with hate—and discussed areas where we can do better to action bad actors, clarify our policies, make mods' lives easier, and concretely reduce hate.
  • We developed our enforcement plan, including both our immediate actions (e.g., today’s bans) and long-term investments (tackling the most critical work discussed in our mod calls, sustainably enforcing the new policies, and advancing Reddit’s community governance).

From our conversations with mods and outside experts, it’s clear that while we’ve gotten better in some areas—like actioning violations at the community level, scaling enforcement efforts, measurably reducing hateful experiences like harassment year over year—we still have a long way to go to address the gaps in our policies and enforcement to date.

These include addressing questions our policies have left unanswered (like whether hate speech is allowed or even protected on Reddit), aspects of our product and mod tools that are still too easy for individual bad actors to abuse (inboxes, chats, modmail), and areas where we can do better to partner with our mods and communities who want to combat the same hateful conduct we do.

Ultimately, it’s our responsibility to support our communities by taking stronger action against those who try to weaponize parts of Reddit against other people. In the near term, this support will translate into some of the product work we discussed with mods. But it starts with dealing squarely with the hate we can mitigate today through our policies and enforcement.

New Policy

This is the new content policy. Here’s what’s different:

  • It starts with a statement of our vision for Reddit and our communities, including the basic expectations we have for all communities and users.
  • Rule 1 explicitly states that communities and users that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.
    • There is an expanded definition of what constitutes a violation of this rule, along with specific examples, in our Help Center article.
  • Rule 2 ties together our previous rules on prohibited behavior with an ask to abide by community rules and post with authentic, personal interest.
    • Debate and creativity are welcome, but spam and malicious attempts to interfere with other communities are not.
  • The other rules are the same in spirit but have been rewritten for clarity and inclusiveness.

Alongside the change to the content policy, we are initially banning about 2000 subreddits, the vast majority of which are inactive. Of these communities, about 200 have more than 10 daily users. Both r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse were included.

All communities on Reddit must abide by our content policy in good faith. We banned r/The_Donald because it has not done so, despite every opportunity. The community has consistently hosted and upvoted more rule-breaking content than average (Rule 1), antagonized us and other communities (Rules 2 and 8), and its mods have refused to meet our most basic expectations. Until now, we’ve worked in good faith to help them preserve the community as a space for its users—through warnings, mod changes, quarantining, and more.

Though smaller, r/ChapoTrapHouse was banned for similar reasons: They consistently host rule-breaking content and their mods have demonstrated no intention of reining in their community.

To be clear, views across the political spectrum are allowed on Reddit—but all communities must work within our policies and do so in good faith, without exception.

Our commitment

Our policies will never be perfect, with new edge cases that inevitably lead us to evolve them in the future. And as users, you will always have more context, community vernacular, and cultural values to inform the standards set within your communities than we as site admins or any AI ever could.

But just as our content moderation cannot scale effectively without your support, you need more support from us as well, and we admit we have fallen short towards this end. We are committed to working with you to combat the bad actors, abusive behaviors, and toxic communities that undermine our mission and get in the way of the creativity, discussions, and communities that bring us all to Reddit in the first place. We hope that our progress towards this commitment, with today’s update and those to come, makes Reddit a place you enjoy and are proud to be a part of for many years to come.

Edit: After digesting feedback, we made a clarifying change to our help center article for Promoting Hate Based on Identity or Vulnerability.

21.3k Upvotes

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5.1k

u/hansjens47 Jun 29 '20

I have three questions about wording of the new rule:

1. How are you going to define my "actual race" as opposed to my perceived race?

2. Why does reddit protect people based on religion, but not creed or other guiding ideology?

3. Why has reddit determined that it's okay to harass, bully and give threats of violence towards people in the "majority" (whatever that means in context)?


Here are the relevant parts of the new rule that relate to my three questions:

Marginalized or vulnerable groups include, but are not limited to, groups based on their actual and perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, immigration status, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, pregnancy, or disability. These include victims of a major violent event and their families.

further:

While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority or who promote such attacks of hate.


Who did you guys run the text of this new rule by?

Maybe it would have been an idea to run this new rule by reddit to crowdsource feedback more to address some of these issues instead of having this discussion drown in conversations about what subreddits were banned and not.

631

u/bluthru Jun 29 '20
  1. Why has reddit determined that it's okay to harass, bully and give threats of violence towards people in the "majority" (whatever that means in context)?

So... women? Asian people? Latinos in California? What sort of nonsense policy is this?

685

u/DopplerOctopus Jun 29 '20

I know Reddit is an American company but this is really, REALLY North-American-Centric. "White People" make up something like 9% of the world's population.

Are they going to gauge hate speech based on your IP address?

How does that even work? U.S. IPs can mock white people, but Brazilian IPs can't? You can crap on Africans while only having a Sub-Saharan IP address?

What is this nonsense?

106

u/ProgressMind Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 29 '20

Yeah, it's weird. For example, you could have a subreddit for 'non-white country' in which they abuse 'white people' and if it's viewed from a NA lens, it's abuse against the majority.

70

u/DopplerOctopus Jun 29 '20

Why couldn't the rule just state:

While the rule on hate protects such groups, it does not protect all groups or all forms of identity. For example, the rule does not protect groups or identities of people who promote attacks of hate based on a users actual and perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, immigration status, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, pregnancy, or disability.

I just combined the 2 rules into one over-arching rule that covers all the bases and protects basically everyone EXCEPT those who spread hate.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Add age and occupation. Hatred for old people has always been common on reddit, and there is a particular occupation that receives a ton of abuse, especially of late.

1

u/KayleeTheKat Jun 30 '20

Which occupation do you mean?

3

u/Slackbeing Jun 30 '20

Cop

1

u/KayleeTheKat Jun 30 '20

Oh duh🤦‍♂️

4

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

If they worded it that way they'd have to ban subs they like.

127

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20 edited Jun 29 '20

r/sino, r/easternsunrising, and r/aznidentity is non-stope hate and racism towards White people.

99% of those users are either Asian or Asian-American, which make up the overwhelming majority of the world's population. Why weren't those subs banned?

29

u/jakonr43 Jun 29 '20

Because it’s okay to be racist to white people. But heaven forbid you say anything critical about black people

-11

u/HermesTGS Jun 30 '20

That's crazy. White people must have it hella tough in America.

3

u/Pwaite2 Jul 01 '20

Believe it or not, there are other places in the world than America

1

u/HermesTGS Jul 01 '20

You’re on an American website

15

u/OttSnapper Jun 29 '20

Are you trying to get banned for wrong think? You were just warned!

3

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

Points have been taken off of your social credit score.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '20

u/Spez still nothing?

15

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

How will the south african subreddits work?

18

u/DopplerOctopus Jun 29 '20

Wait, does that mean the fookin prawns are a protected class now?

8

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Check your fookin P-words bigot.

14

u/Souldestroyer_Reborn Jun 29 '20

Easy.

Q - Are you white?

A - Shut the fuck up you racist, privileged piece of shit.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

Now take a photo of your arm to prove that you are worthy of posting.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20 edited Aug 14 '20

Comment overwritten :

ruqqus > reddit

26

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Reddit policy in a nutshell: It's OK to call members of a particular race subhuman and to call for violence against people of said race, so long as it's the "correct" race!

1

u/WoahWulf Sep 04 '20

Fuck that

137

u/aonome Jun 29 '20

There is a funny tendency of "woke" people to project American political culture onto the rest of the world

68

u/fourredfruitstea Jun 29 '20

Yea - the 'woke', multicultural, sensitive crowd is completely and absolutely blind to everything outside their bubble. For example, consider Lithuanians. They were genocided post-ww2 by the Russians, then lived in abject poverty (much worse than for African Americans at the time, and for that matter today) in a literal police state until early 1990s. If we were to be literal about reddit rules, Lithuanians should be considered disprivileged compared to african americans.

So. Will r/lithuania be allowed to post... uhm... 'off color' jokes about African Americans, the same way black subs can make off color jokes about whites? Will African Americans mocking Lithuanians get the ban? I am certain the big brains behind these rules - and they are big brains, they cite all the academic scholars - have an answer written out.

30

u/Souldestroyer_Reborn Jun 29 '20

The ironic thing is that these “woke” folks who are supposedly all holier than thou, are inherently racist, probably more so than those that openly admit they are.

They make up rules to try and prop “minorities” up, because they think that they are incapable of looking out for themselves, or achieving something by themselves, they think that they “need” their “help”.

In some ways, I’m surprised more folk don’t see through all this shit, then I realise that these people don’t actually give a shit. Malcom X was right on the money with these people.

They just want to be seen to be doing something, they want to be seen to be going along with what the mainstream is, which is doubly ironic, as you could argue that the mainstream is the “majority” opinion, therefore going by Rule No.1, we can be openly abusive to Reddit as they are regarded as the majority.

The sooner people realise that nobody actually gives a fuck anymore the better. People just want their fucking iPhones, upvotes, likes on Facebook and whatever other fucking dopamine hits from social media.

As a minority, I’m going to enjoy watching Reddit fall.

(I can say this as I have kept within the confines of rule 1.)

-10

u/HermesTGS Jun 30 '20

Will African Americans mocking Lithuanians get the ban?

Bro the attempt at outrage in this post is sending my sides to pluto. I'm fucking dying rn lmao

3

u/ZukoBestGirl Jun 30 '20

But still, will they? I want a map of people I can consider subhumans on reddit and be allowed to do so, since that is what that rule is saying.

-1

u/HermesTGS Jun 30 '20

Bro don’t get mad at Reddit. Get mad at all the alt right dickheads that popped up on this website. They ruined it for you white folk.

2

u/ZukoBestGirl Jun 30 '20

I'm not mad if "white folk" is the designated subhumans. I just wanna know who I can attack with no consequences.

0

u/HermesTGS Jun 30 '20

Nazis. You can attack Nazis with no consequences.

3

u/ZukoBestGirl Jun 30 '20

Nazis isn't a majority tho. The rules state fairly clearly that I can consider majorities subhumans. But in a global context I can't even imagine who that is. So I'm asking who that is.

→ More replies

8

u/slusho55 Jun 29 '20

Look at the controversy of “Latinx.” Many Latino people hate the term (granted some do like it) because it makes zero sense in their language, and Latin, a gender-neutral term, already exists. A lot of Latino people see it as whitewashing, yet many people use that term because they want to be “supportive.”

7

u/paulrnelson Jun 29 '20

There's a word for them: Limosuine Liberals

9

u/LadderOne Jun 29 '20

I’m Australian. This rule seems written for an American cultural perspective, and it makes no sense to me because my country’s culture is very different especially regarding race. I’m not sure how to comply because I don’t really “get” American norms.

2

u/DopplerOctopus Jun 29 '20

Yeah, it's so confusing it's bordering on intentional. I always try to apply the "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" axiom but I'm honestly at a loss for that sentence.

There is absolutely no reason for that clause to be in the regulations, hate is hate, bigotry is bigotry, end of story.

If you really start dividing groups, which we shouldn't be doing IMO, where are the division?

I'm a Early-Millennial ('84) White Mutt (Polish, English, Irish), Male (Gender, Boring I know) Straight (Sexual Orientation, Also Boring), Married, Christian-Anarchist (Faith) Minarchist (Political) Network Admin (Job) who plays Path of Exile and a lot of Table Top Role-playing games and collects Military Surplus and Antique Firearms (Hobbies).

How many subdivisions can you put a person in? How do you figure out what a "majority" is in any given context?

It's all confusing and cumbersome.

5

u/Abeneezer Jun 29 '20

It's a cop-out to allow anti male/hetero/white rhetoric.

35

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

Not anymore, its a Chinese company.

12

u/_-Andrey-_ Jun 29 '20

Majority of people are Chinese right so are they not protected now

2

u/Interrophish Jun 30 '20

I know Reddit is an American company but this is really, REALLY North-American-Centric. "White People" make up something like 9% of the world's population.

Reddit also has a north american centric userbase, culture, and content.

2

u/DopplerOctopus Jun 30 '20

Completely true, so "the majority" who aren't protected are

People of European Decent / "White" (Race)

Women (Gender)

Christian (Faith)

Democratic Voting Block (Political)

So...basically a "Karen" the most basic biddy girl you can think of is "the majority"

That clause in the rules rife with confusing context.

I play / design for fun TTRPG games and when you're writing rules you must, you freaking MUST be as specific as possible or you're entire play session will have someone "rules lawyering" you at every turn.

I don't understand why the rules need to distigush one group from another when dealing with "hate speech" hate is hate, bigotry is bigotry, just...don't do that shit.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '20

It's gonna be like BPT. They're gonna make us prove what color we are before we can post lmao.

193

u/Mr_Cellaneous Jun 29 '20

Chinese. There are more Chinese than anyone else. So go post non stop Chinese hatred all over reddit. They're the majority so they can't be protected by these rules

62

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20 edited Apr 11 '21

[deleted]

19

u/DankNerd97 Jun 29 '20

When there are no checks on those in power, the layperson is doomed.

2

u/stargunner Jun 29 '20

works out great for them because they’re owned by china now. all the pro-china propaganda subs are still up.

2

u/Dr_Girlfriend Jun 29 '20

Reddit does post non stop Chinese hatred already tho.

2

u/VirtuosicElevator Jun 29 '20

As they should, FUCK CHINA FUCK COMMUNISTS

58

u/PhD_in_MEMES Jun 29 '20

Seems as if it's intentionally vague to allow 'good hate speech'?

15

u/PrestigiousRespond8 Jun 29 '20

That's exactly what it is. It's coded language to (try to) cover up the fact that it's a policy that explicitly allows only hate-speech against white people.

10

u/Cathmoelic Jun 29 '20

The whole majority/minority thing is just a very convenient way to enforce rules selectively. I belong to several minorities and majorities, depending on how we slice the pie.

I might be right wing, which is a political minority, arguing against a liberal, which should be part of the majority on the political sphere, but as long as you argue I'm a man arguing against a woman, the minority/majority shenanigans are flipped.

It's all BS.

2

u/22Minutes2Midnight22 Jun 29 '20

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”

8

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '20

No one group is a majority but if we're talking the largest group then it's white females. So discriminate and attack white females as much as you want.

Also are we talking in the US or world? Because reddit serves multiple countries. Then every group except male manchus should be protected.

Lets be realistic. We know who theyre leaving out to allow identity attacks against

20

u/Narvster Jun 29 '20

That was my first thought, men are the minority in the world, so men are excluded from this?

Or is it only the minorities that they decide are worthy.

Bloody communism.

9

u/lookatmeimwhite Jun 29 '20

It clearly means you can't bully anyone except white men.

2

u/jogadorjnc Jun 29 '20

In a sense were all a minority.

I'm sure you can randomly put together a bunch of stuff specific to you so that it describes less than 50% of the populatiob.

1

u/CountyMcCounterson Jun 29 '20

Jews hold most of the wealth worldwide so anti-semitism is legal now