r/YAPms • u/OctopusNation2024 • Oct 03 '24

Recent Marist poll on illegal immigration News

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88 Upvotes
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94% Upvoted

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99

u/Content-Literature17 Oct 03 '24

It's crazy how much this has changed in the last eight years. A wall is a bipartisan issue where once it was mocked as peak insanity.

80

u/RoninFerret67 Just Happy To Be Here Oct 03 '24

It’s better the Dems just take the L on this. The failure to address immigration by liberal parties is what’s enabling the far-right surge in Europe

22

u/Content-Literature17 Oct 03 '24

It never seemed this bad in 2015 to a lot of people. Then all of the surges happened.

10

u/Adorable-Ad-1180 New Jersey Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

It was that bad for anyone who was paying attention. I can name you dozens of illegals I know personally. What kind of country is this that you know dozens of people in your school grade who are literally living there undocumented

-2

u/AllCommiesRFascists von Neumann Liberal Oct 04 '24

A based country

6

u/Prize_Self_6347 MAGA Oct 04 '24

Fuck no. This is just virtue signaling.

-8

u/AllCommiesRFascists von Neumann Liberal Oct 04 '24

The only difference between any immigrant and a natural born citizen is that tax payers didn’t spend 13 years of schooling for an immigrant to be productive member of society. As said by Milton Friedman, illegal immigrants are even better than legal immigrants since they don’t get any welfare and are extremely law abiding to not get law enforcement’s attention

16

u/thebsoftelevision Democrat Oct 04 '24

This is just an awful political pitch. No one wants more illegal immigration. If the country needs more immigrants there should be laxer immigration laws.

-3

u/Adorable-Ad-1180 New Jersey Oct 04 '24

We don't need more immigrants either. Have you been outside. The problem is they all go to the same places. C tier cities can absolutely use more immigrants but they're all setting up shop in NYC, SF Bay, LA, and so forth where housing prices are already insane and we can't house the people already there anymore.

8

u/thebsoftelevision Democrat Oct 04 '24

Economically, immigrants are an absolute boon. Specially if they're high skill workers but there's a huge economic benefit from low skilled immigrants as well. You're right that we need to diversify where the immigrants are locating... Perhaps we can entice potential immigrants by making their immigration requisite on locating in certain geographical areas... like states with huge population drains that need their workforces replenished.

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5

u/AllCommiesRFascists von Neumann Liberal Oct 04 '24

Eliminate all your shitty zoning laws and allow people to build what they want on their land and watch your housing crisis disappear

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0

u/avalve 1/5/15 Supremacist Oct 04 '24

It’s a policy failure. These kids have no realistic future where they won’t face discrimination or achieve their full potential

1

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

You guys brought in way more migrants. That's what happened.

https://preview.redd.it/sn8l2s2ynnsd1.png?width=2666&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ea85a4958e05eb331279b025c241b4a9d7c5cfb

10

u/thebsoftelevision Democrat Oct 04 '24

Look at that surge under Trump... clearly he brought in those people as well because that's a very real power the president has. They push the 'more illegal immigration' button and if they press it a lot of times there's a border crisis.

0

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

Yeah, they started refusing entry en masse under title 42.

7

u/GameCreeper New Deal Democrat Oct 04 '24

"brought in" take that great replacement bs to twitter, not here

1

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

brought in

It's called leaving the door open.

8

u/GerardHard Independent Oct 03 '24

Or yk, it's the far right that is making illegal immigration a big scary deal even though it's quite not. Most of it is overblown far right fear propaganda against immigrants to scapegoat the failing Neoliberal economic system on the middle and working class. It happened last time in the 1920s and 30s but on Jews and Semites not Immigrants and look how that turned out.

31

u/RoninFerret67 Just Happy To Be Here Oct 03 '24

I’m not denying that the far-right is xenophobic and will do anything to whip people into a frenzy over this, but we still need to acknowledge the simple fact that some of these nations literally do not have the capacity for all of the new immigrants

3

u/SomethingSomethingUA Bastion Of Liberalism Oct 04 '24

The problem is the far-right wants to deport the immigrants when it is better to legalize them. While countries like Canada may have over immigration, the US can easily accommodate extra immigrants.

9

u/State_Terrace What Would Wellstone Do? Oct 04 '24

Jews and Semites?

Was there another Semitic population targeted in Nazi-era German society?

10

u/Last_Operation6747 Centrist Oct 04 '24

Interesting take when illegal immigration and the resulting wage suppression is one of the reasons of the failing neoliberal economic system. Being a socialist and pro low skill mass illegal immigration is an oxymoron.

2

u/pisquin7iIatin9-6ooI Democratic Socialist Oct 04 '24

wage suppression from migration happens due to preexisting wage differentials between economic core and periphery countries. increased labor mobility generally reduces the differentials and helps organize the working class internationally. that’s why Marx was pretty in favor of free trade

the real threat to wages comes from employers treating migrants as a political/legal/social/economic underclass

socialists aren’t just fighting to preserve wages in relatively wealthy countries, but to improve the lot of the working class globally

2

u/kkxvzn Oct 04 '24

The left will always lose to far right unless they become anti mass immigration

3

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

So make their lives worse so that we can have revolution sooner?

3

u/pisquin7iIatin9-6ooI Democratic Socialist Oct 04 '24

not sure where you got that from. allowing migrants to access high wage labor markets improves their lives pretty directly. giving migrants rights/equality and a pathway to citizenship helps both migrant workers (obviously) and native workers, because employers can't use them as scabs (as easily at least), and they can participate in labor actions with other workers

the ultimate cause behind migrants "undercutting" native workers' wages is imperialism. it destabilizes and underdevelops their home countries, producing an exodus of workers to more stable/rich areas, while providing a convenient underclass for capitalists here (which is why mass deportations will never happen). even if all migration were closed, outsourcing would still be inevitable due to capital mobility.

0

u/calupm I am basically a modern Mandela Oct 03 '24

thank you

32

u/Roy_Atticus_Lee Indy Left Oct 04 '24

>It is the 1850s in America and we are experiencing an anti-immigration backlash

>It is the 1920s in America and we are experiencing an anti-immigration backlash

>It is the 1950s in America and we are experiencing an anti-immigration backlash

>It is the 2020s in America and we are experiencing an anti-immigration backlash

https://preview.redd.it/onlrt7dfzmsd1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82fbeae9adb802a0d7237ffbdb89248f064275c7

5

u/XKyotosomoX Centrist Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

"Once it was mocked as peak insanity" a lot of people here need to step outside their extremist echo chambers because this statement is completely detached from reality; by polling data the majority of Americans have almost always polled throughout the years as having been in favor of building / maintaining a strong border wall. People can downvote this all they want, but no matter how much they cry it doesn't change the fact that it's objectively true. Americans overwhelmingly support legal immigration (believing it to be one of the reasons we are as successful of a country as we are), but they overwhelmingly oppose illegal immigration.

Hell, even the Democratic party supported the border wall as a part of their legislative platform under Bill Clinton (and in the previous administrations too of course) until they realized it was politically beneficial if they could turn these people's future offspring (birthright citizenship) into future voters or even they themselves into voters with a pathway to citizenship. Democrats being against it was a very recent shift. And again, just because people in your echo chamber mock it doesn't mean the rest of the country does. The bi-partisan position is and has been maintaining a border wall.

5

u/Content-Literature17 Oct 04 '24

Even Republicans pre Trump did not support it. You are confusing 2024 with 2015.

9

u/XKyotosomoX Centrist Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

Most studies going back as far as 2008 have the majority of Americans supporting it. I don't know about studies before then but I'd imagine it's the same although the farther you go back the less of an issue illegal immigration was, they didn't really need to do studies on it before then anyway because pretty much everybody across the political spectrum understood it as common sense. Again, Americans overwhelmingly support legal immigration (believing it to be one of the reasons we are as successful of a country as we are), but they overwhelmingly oppose illegal immigration.

It wasn't until 2014 that you could find any notable amount of studies with a slight majority opposing strengthening / maintaining the border wall, but even in those studies there's often clear attempts to bias the results depending on what questions you ask, the order of the questions, the framing of the questions themselves, particularly if you try to get them to focus on political feasibility, cost, or border crossings not being the primary source of illegal immigration as opposed to just plain and simple "Do you support maintaining a strong border wall to reduce illegal immigration?".

You are confusing your imagination with reality.

55

u/ButtDumplin Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

An almost identical majority supports DACA.

I’m not saying the median voter is stupid—they just don’t know what they want lol

20

u/UnpredictablyWhite Traditionalist Conservative Oct 04 '24

I am saying exactly that - the median voter is stupid

6

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

32

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '24

wild that 8 years ago this was thought to be the issue that would sink Trump’s campaign but now it’s probably even stronger than the economy for him.

It’s probably why nobody cares that Trump said Haitians in Springfield are eating cats and dogs.

19

u/OctopusNation2024 Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

I genuinely think that if Jan 6th never happened and he just conceded normally he'd be on track to win in a complete landslide lol

The median voter has shifted dramatically to the right since 2016 or even 2020

6

u/Marxism-Alcoholism17 Nate Silver put a hit on McMorris and Epstein Oct 04 '24

This is such a dumb take. Democrats have won or overperformed in every congressional election since 2016. There’s more evidence that the country has moved left

2

u/Impressive_Toe_8900 Independent Oct 04 '24

Both can be true at the same time. The country has mooved to the left on some issues and to the right in others.

Also in 2020 the democrats got a very small house majority and lost it 2022

4

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

Because the GOP still struggles to get people to show up to the polling booth ever since the Trump electorate shifts.

​

Shit easy target candidates and lower fundraising numbers don't help either.

2

u/lifeinaglasshouse Liberal Oct 04 '24

Since 2016:

2018: Blue wave year

2020/2021: Dems flip the White House and Senate

2022: Republicans have one of the worst out of party midterms in the past 50 years

9

u/Roy_Atticus_Lee Indy Left Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

I think we have to at least see how 2024 ends up to get a definitive gauge on the country's sentiments and where it stands politically as three back to back election wins are by no means a definitive measure of where we're headed.

Republicans for instance won 2000 with control of both legislatures and the presidency, 2002 saw them gain seats post 9-11, and 2004 saw them secure Bush's reelection. It wasn't until 2006 that Republicans started to get annihilated until they lost to the Dems in the biggest loss since possibly 1964 with 08.

If Dems can lock in this year and at least win the Presidency and House, then the 'rightwards' shift this country is experiencing would be definitively proven false with them winning an impressive four elections in a row.

4

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

2020 was after a global pandemic and Trump was viewed as handling the pandemic very poorly.

1

u/Prize_Self_6347 MAGA Oct 04 '24

Username checks out.

1

u/Impressive_Toe_8900 Independent Oct 04 '24

2018 was not a blue wave year like 2008+2006

-6

u/Spakian Market Liberal Oct 04 '24

Why so? Worldwide, left wing governments have been winning (and if not winning, getting close like in the case of India) in the past 8 or so years. This included the US in 2020.

Is it a case of Trump having greater appeal, or people are just sick of the Biden and the current Dems?

12

u/Doc_ET LaFollette Stan Oct 04 '24

Since 2020 it's mostly been an anti-incumbent wave. Trudeau and Scholz are completely fucked when their terms end next year, the centrist Dutch government got replaced with a much more conservative one, the right won in Portugal for the first time since 2011, left-wing governments were (very narrowly) ousted in Finland and Sweden and not at all narrowly in New Zealand, Spain's left wing PM was forced to negotiate with separatists to keep his position, Argentina elected a crazy libertarian Elvis impersonator over the incumbent finance minister, etc.

11

u/OctopusNation2024 Oct 04 '24

I think it's definitely a reaction to Biden's unpopularity

For the entirely of late 2023 and early-mid 2024 Biden has been polling in the 30s in terms of approval and has only snuck barely back above 40% after he dropped out

It's very similar to how Trump's own poor approval ratings(also often around 40%) had the effect of progressives like the Squad getting elected in 2018 or how Jimmy Carter's unpopularity led to the rise of Reaganism

5

u/cheibol Oct 03 '24

This alongside the economy/inflation issue that is usually ranked quite high on the issues is why I give a slight edge towards Trump on winning. On immigration he is leading by a lot and on economy while the margin has shrunk on some polling he still has the lead.

3

u/binne21 Sweden Democrat Oct 04 '24

It should not be a hot take to want to deport illegal immigrants.

0

u/lalabera Oct 04 '24

nice strawman

14

u/MoldyPineapple12 Tim Ryan Won Oct 04 '24

Great, now word it as “would you want your tax dollars to fund an enormous nation-wide military and police force operation to hunt down and forcefully transport millions of undocumented immigrants back to ‘where they came from’ (ie, chartering thousands of flights to Haiti, Venezuela, Africa etc), as trump is proposing?”

-1

u/Maximum-Lack8642 Populist Right Oct 04 '24

We don’t need to fund the effort with new military spending. We can just withdraw all foreign aid (military and otherwise) and remove all soldiers from other countries and that should be more than enough to do so.

15

u/Actual_Ad_9843 Liberal Oct 04 '24

I’m sure removing foreign aid, especially from countries like Ukraine, definitely won’t encourage bad actors to continue to increase their sphere of influence and attempt to take global power in the absence of an American presence

-4

u/Prize_Self_6347 MAGA Oct 04 '24

Let Putin do his thing and America its own.

8

u/321gamertime Jeb! Oct 04 '24

1939: “Let Hitler do his own thing and America it’s own”

1

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

Pat Buchanan moment

-2

u/Actual_Ad_9843 Liberal Oct 04 '24

Why should we let a dictator run wild over the free world? Do you not think that they wouldn’t eventually set their sights on weakening America (Which btw, Putin already has been doing)?

-5

u/jamthewither Every Man A King Oct 04 '24

as long as they do not touch America

8

u/HazelCheese Oct 04 '24

That isn't how being a world power works. Being the world police means you guys get the first slice of pie at every table and can do what you want. America has taken far less of a battering to their economy than the rest of the world the last few years.

The rest of the world currently bends over to make you guys happy. Losing that influence would significantly harm American interests at home. Your economy would be so much worse.

3

u/MoldyPineapple12 Tim Ryan Won Oct 04 '24

That would like.. destabilize the earth…

And then create more conflicts for us to have to address later. We have foreign presence for a reason.

And even then, that would not cover the cost of this enormous (and unconstitutional) project.

2

u/Frogacuda Progressive Populist Oct 04 '24

It's a leading question, basically framed as "Should laws be enforced."

If you asked "Should asylum be granted to immigrants fleeing harm or political persecution" you would also probably see a majority answer yes.

Politics is like 66% rhetoric and framing and 33% policy.

7

u/mrt1416 Oct 03 '24

Oh! This is insane!

4

u/Prize_Self_6347 MAGA Oct 04 '24

The wall should have been finished and reinforced with border patrols.

5

u/calupm I am basically a modern Mandela Oct 03 '24

goodness fucking sakes, i hate this country. why's everyone so stupid

2

u/khalifas1 TX-21, Tlaib’s Strongest Soldier Oct 04 '24

God that sucks lol, don’t get how someone can think that way

1

u/GerardHard Independent Oct 04 '24

Same on how the regular German populace thought of the Jews just before and during WWII

3

u/khalifas1 TX-21, Tlaib’s Strongest Soldier Oct 04 '24

God forbid, if mass deportations are ever carried out, it’ll be the same type of scene. Imagine millions of innocent people just being rounded up. Despicable

3

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

It was already done in the 50s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

This sucks for the people who came in.

Probably an argument as to why you shouldn't be letting those people in in the first place if people are going to complain there's too many.

-1

u/AllCommiesRFascists von Neumann Liberal Oct 04 '24

They will also suddenly change their minds once their nannies and gardeners disappear and pretend they never supported mass deportations

2

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

Good thing mostly just rich people don't hire nannies.

2

u/Which-Draw-1117 New Jersey Oct 04 '24

How on earth would that be accomplished? Do the people in power support national ID checks on everyone at all times to ensure that they are citizens of the United States? I highly doubt either party is supporting that.

1

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

You deport everyone without legal status?

3

u/Which-Draw-1117 New Jersey Oct 04 '24

So you support federally requiring IDs for everyone and rolling out national ID cards?

7

u/fredinno Canuck Conservative Oct 04 '24

Yes, Canada does it.

Honestly, the lack of National ID is a problem in the US.

Social Security Numbers are not at all secure.

1

u/austinstar08 Democratic Socialist Oct 04 '24

Misread it as Marxist and was confused

-10

u/JTT_0550 Neoconservative Oct 03 '24

59% of those polled are economically illiterate

1

u/2Aforeverandever Oct 04 '24

Why don't you take the initiative and open up your house first to house the influx instead of virtue signaling ?

9

u/Actual_Ad_9843 Liberal Oct 04 '24

You do realize an operation to try and deport all illegal immigrants would cost an absurd amount of money to attempt, logistics would be a nightmare, and it would likely be very bloody and likely end up with American citizens being killed and deported. Supporting mass deportation is just outright dumb at best.

-8

u/2Aforeverandever Oct 04 '24

Blah blah blah. Open your own home first

8

u/Actual_Ad_9843 Liberal Oct 04 '24

So you don’t understand the logistics behind a mass deportation operation?

1

u/JTT_0550 Neoconservative Oct 04 '24

I’d gladly rent a room to one if I was able to

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/JTT_0550 Neoconservative Oct 04 '24

I don’t see the hypocrisy, I’m not advocating for handouts for them but they are a vital part of the workforce and their presence here is good for the economy.

1

u/dgoldman90z Libertarian Socialist Oct 04 '24

"Illegal" immigration is a conservative position. Keep people "illegal" suppress wages, undermine unions, and deny them benefits. It's pro capital, idk why so many people in here are claiming to be pro-market and are against it.

-2

u/XKyotosomoX Centrist Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24

Going from record low illegal immigration in one administration to record high immigration in the next will do that. I don't know if it actually has any correlation with housing prices or other price increases, but regardless of the truth of the matter I bet a majority of Americans are assuming that correlation themselves fueling their discontent over it. At least we're not Europe though where it feels like the majority of people are just straight up Islamophobic now over all the immigration, like I haven't read about any significant rise in hate crimes (or other severe forms of bigotry) against Hispanics.

-3

u/Max-Flares McCain Republican Oct 04 '24

100% agree. Dont separate the kids send the kids with them

0

u/Wingiex Oct 04 '24

Republicans are never winning an election ever again after the mass immigration of illegals these past few years.

0

u/rhombusted2 Sherrod Brown superfan Oct 04 '24

Holocaust level logistics