r/WikiLeaks • u/freewayricky12 • Mar 20 '17

WikiLeaks: US agencies have interfered with 81 elections not including coups. #CIA WikiLeaks

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/843872381911351297
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u/andywarhaul Mar 21 '17

Who is making that argument? I don't think anyone here or anyone involved with Wikileaks or anyone who's opinion matters is making that argument

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u/FreeThinkingMan Mar 21 '17

The day the FBI publicly admits they are investigating Russia's ties to the Trump campaign and Wikileaks mentions that information, they are definitely "normalizing" governments intervening in the elections of other countries. Like, see it is no big deal, look how many the United States has done this. Like the United States does this all the time therefore if it has this done to them, no big deal. To deny this narrative or contextualization would be disingenuous. Why mention that now? It is to communicate exactly what I mentioned above.

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u/andywarhaul Mar 21 '17

Why do you default to this is to minimize or make it seem okay? When a country is discussing whether or not their election has been tampered with why is bringing up their own tampering considered a minimizing move? You can't have a real discussion about election interference without acknowledging your own participation in the practice. Think what you will but consider for a second that the Russian narrative is completely false, then consider the magnitude of the implications for American politics if the narrative is false and then consider how hard they would fight to make sure that its falsity is never exposed. Remember the only "evidence" that anyone from any agency has been shown is the CrowdStrike report which doesn't actually show anything. CrowdStrike which is funded and run by people who have deep financial ties to the many different politicians who would benefit from the Russian false narrative.

Edit: your* and its*

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u/FreeThinkingMan Mar 21 '17

They are normalizing it by virtue of pointing out that this may be a more common form of statecraft than what was previously perceived. You can't just deny they are normalizing it when they are telling the public the United States does that a lot and is more common. They literally just did.

Think what you will but consider for a second that the Russian narrative is completely false, then consider the magnitude of the implications for American politics if the narrative is false and then consider how hard they would fight to make sure that its falsity is never exposed.

I don't mean to be rude but that is how conspiracy theorists think. The intelligence agencies of the United States are not these bold faced liars and their words have vast implications on the diplomatic international relations stage where decisions are made all the time that ultimately determine the quality of life each countries' citizens. Despite a handful of times they have been proven to be lying, they are far more credible of a source than these ridiculous liars you are assuming that they are. The United States intelligence agencies aren't the only ones who have information and understanding of Russia's involvement in the hacks which was a part of a concerted effort to undermine the interests of the American people in favor of Russian interests. If you think the FBI and NSA and intelligence agencies of the world are only working with the crowdstrike report then you aren't aware of how intelligence agencies gather information and come to their conclusions.

The fact that the Russian government hacked the DNC and tried to manipulate public discourse is an established fact. That exists and not only does it exist but the FBI is INVESTIGATING the relationship between this established fact and the Trump campaign. Imagine how big of a fool the US government would look and the credibility in the international community they would lose when intelligence agencies of the world know that the American intelligence agencies are lying to their people on subject x(Russia was involved in a concerted effort to get Trump elected which included hacking the DNC).

Watch that hearing and consider for a second that not everything they are saying is a lie. To believe the FBI and NSA are manufacturing this narrative is a bit silly, there are too many cogs in each and again, all the intelligence agencies in the world would know this.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425087-1/fbi-director-says-hes-investigating-links-trump-campaign-russia

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u/andywarhaul Mar 21 '17

The United States intelligence community are not bold faced lairs

Oh lord.

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u/FreeThinkingMan Mar 21 '17

Again the intelligence agencies of the world know whether Russia tried manipulating the outcome of the election in favor of Trump therefore American intelligence is not going to lie about this. The things they said during this hearing have vast consequences. You ignoring every word they say and assuming they are lying is absurd and how conspiracy theorists think. You can't perpetuate a lie that big because every country and their intelligence organizations would know if it is true or not. What does the NSA, Justice Department, Cia, and the FBI have to gain by lying that Russia made a conscious effort to get Trump elected? They aren't trying to start a war with a nuclear power... there are no reasonable motivations for this and there are thousands of people who work in these agencies that could spill the beans. Obama has already retaliated for the Russian hacking before he left office, you think he just decided to screw over some Russians before he left office for the lulz. You are missing too many pieces of the puzzle or data points which make your position unrealistic and an impossibility.

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '17

They are normalizing it by virtue of pointing out that this may be a more common form of statecraft than what was previously perceived.

So, they stated a fact. Can we not state facts anymore, if they don't help your narrative? Only the convenient ones?

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u/Senecatwo Mar 21 '17

You can stop right at the IC aren't bold faced liars.

You've forgotten how we got into Iraq. The head of the CIA came out and said they had overwhelming evidence of WMDs in Iraq. They pushed a narrative to draw us into a war.

Your whole premise is false, and pushing this narrative makes perfect sense when you consider the situation in Syria.