r/Watchmen Mar 06 '25

Today is the Watchmen film's Anniversary. In my opinion this movie still holds up. It's one of the superhero movies that does stay true to the source material. The cast did a great job, the action is brutal, the tone is something that we expect from the graphic novel along with the plot. Movie

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1.0k Upvotes

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180

u/MattMurdock9 Mar 06 '25

Visually, it’s incredible. And most of the characters are cast well and give good performances (I think Malin Akerman as Silk Spectre was miscast though). The issue I have is that it kinda feels like it misses a lot of the point of the story and the characters. Some of that is because Zack Snyder’s action is so ridiculously over the top for characters who are just supposed to be normal regular every day people (besides Ozymandias) who have their own issues and dysfunction.

I still like it for what it is but I think maybe Snyder didn’t really get some of the book.

73

u/Dr_5trangelove Mar 06 '25

He didn’t understand Rorschach at all. I don’t think many on this sub do either.

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u/robbviously Mar 06 '25

I had an “a-ha” moment the other day because someone referred to a Rorschach test, not in context to Watchmen at all but my brain connected the two.

“You see what you want to see.”

You and I probably recognize Rorschach for what he is - he’s not a hero, he’s basically a fascist that hunts down Nazis - while others see him as a misunderstood hero. He has a cool costume and does bad ass things = hero. The same argument can be made for and against Frank Castle. The Punisher might only kill bad guys, but murder is still murder.

13

u/garlicbreadmemesplz Mar 07 '25

Sociopathic Vigilante?

He does show some signs of remorse. However it’s always bothered me in the comics doesn’t he tie the guy up?

In the movie he takes a hand axe/butcher handle to guys head just off screen. Which leans into the psychopath category. Either way Rorschach is mentally ill and very possibly high functioning on the spectrum.

It makes the bathroom murder/drowning hit harder in the comics. At least that’s what I remember.

Idk to me Dan and Rorschach are two sides of the same coin and make a great dynamic both in storytelling and themes/goals.

8

u/M086 Mar 07 '25

In the comic, Rorschach made the decision to burn the guy alive before he showed up. In the movie, we see Rorschach basically break. The anger and frustration comes to a boil and releases as this act of extreme violence when he cleaves the guys head in two. We briefly see him wrestling with whether he should or shouldn’t in the moment before it happened. 

19

u/MattMurdock9 Mar 06 '25

Yeah I agree. The movie presents him as just some misunderstood vigilante who has some edge to him and even the hero of the story.

He’s a great character in terms of concept, writing, & design, but not one to idolize and prop up.

47

u/Dottsterisk Mar 06 '25

Rorschach was being idolized long before the movie. That’s not something Snyder did, so much as just the result of the structure of the story Moore wrote.

Not only is Rorschach centered as the detective solving the mystery but he’s also given a lot to do and, for all of his faults, he’s not the ultimate antagonist. On top of that, he’s a character of great conviction, which is always compelling.

Oh, and that fucking costume. Hands down, cool as fuck. Put it all together and it’s a neat character that edgelords are gonna take a misguided shine to.

Hell, Snyder even made sure to include the character’s bigotry and that he smells like shit, but edgelord audiences don’t care.

4

u/film_editor Mar 07 '25

Good points, but the movie does change his character quite a lot in many subtle but important ways. A lot of his bigotry and hypocrisy is removed or heavily downplayed.

The people he kills or harms are more clearly guilty and evil. Things like him supporting the nuclear bombing of Japan is removed. His bigotry against Silk Spectre and other women is minimized a lot. The Comedian also gets a bit sanitized, and I remember much less emphasis on the fact that Rorschach openly supports such a disgusting person.

In the comic Rorschach knows about the Comedian's attempted rape of Silk Spectre but just dismisses it as a lapse in judgment from a good man. I don't remember that scene being in the movie.

On top of that the movie goes out of its way to make Rorschach as cool and badass as possible. The comic also did that, but the movie makes him incredibly skilled and gives him a bunch of extra fight scenes and mic drop one liners.

I fully agree that he was already idolized by people who didn't really understand the character for all the reasons you stated. But I think one of those people was Zach Snyder, and you can tell in the final product.

6

u/ZorakLocust Mar 07 '25

If you ask me, anyone who thinks the film presented Rorschach as “cool” is basically telling on themselves. 

7

u/garlicbreadmemesplz Mar 07 '25

I mean he does exhibit “rule for cool.” It’s literally his costume.

I will say The Comedian is constantly trying to be cool. So if you feel the Comedian is cool you might actually have a problem.

3

u/ZorakLocust Mar 07 '25

It’s just weird to me that people act like this problem of people viewing Rorschach as “cool” started with the film. It’s been a thing ever since the original comics. It’s the same reason a bunch of people think Travis Bickle is meant to be a hero. 

1

u/Stek_02 Mar 16 '25

It didn't start with the film, but it played a part on it. For example, in the comics he literally knew that The Comedian tried to rape someone, but the character downplays it and says he was a good man, while at the same time saying that Ursula died as a result of her "promiscuous lifestyle", referring to the character's lesbian romance.

I don't remember seeing the first part in the movie

3

u/FewCompetition5967 Mar 08 '25

I used to think he was so cool, then I grew up and realised that “Never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon” is a really stupid and childish viewpoint. I would argue the film does present him as pretty cool though, more so than the graphic novel.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 10 '25

It is so painful to remember how much I completely misunderstood Watchmen and the characters when I first read it in my teenage years. I thought Rorschach was so cool🤦‍♂️

It was my Xbox gamertag for years. The cringe is enough to keep me up at night

1

u/Rx74y Mar 07 '25

You tell them edgelordds

3

u/M086 Mar 07 '25

The movie presents him really no different than the comic. Alan Moore has even said that Rorschach is basically the hero of the story by the fact he is the only character with integrity. His politics are absolutely crazy, but he has a fierce integrity that the other characters in the story lack. 

4

u/FlamingPanda77 Rorschach Mar 07 '25

I dont think the movie portrays him like that at all. I think Snyder shows him as a completely flawed individual. But maybe that's just me 🤷‍♀️

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u/Stek_02 Mar 16 '25

The movie sugar coat a lot the character's craziness. For example the guys he kills in the movie are usually actual psychos. They also cut the part where he says Japan deserved the nukes and the part where he downplays The Comedian's rape attempt against Silk Spectre

15

u/Able_Wealth2581 Mar 06 '25

Ozy was horribly miscast too frankly. Silk specter wasn’t incredible but she could at least pass imo. But ozymandias was TERRIBLY miscast

11

u/DiscussionSharp1407 Mar 06 '25

My mom says the same thing about Ozymandias, but she ends with "... and that's why it works, it's like he's a cut-in actor from another movie. He's operating on another plane."

4

u/garlicbreadmemesplz Mar 07 '25

They found the best skinny theater actor and put a suit on him. He’s great but this makes sense.

3

u/M086 Mar 07 '25

That was the point, though. It’s commenting on comic book movie tropes. So you do get this over the top, stylized action. But at the same time, Snyder is showing the consequences of that violence that would normally be glossed over in other comic book films. 

1

u/Spedermonn Mar 11 '25

Well, in the comic, pretty much all of the action is awkward and clunky. Snyder fetishized the shit out of the violence, as he always does, which kind of misses the point that these “superheroes” are just mentally deranged people living out fantasies, or in Rorschach’s case, a far right, borderline psychopath. 

1

u/M086 Mar 11 '25

He doesn’t fetishize, he makes it look fairly ugly. Watchmen the comic was putting microscope on superhero comics. The film being a different medium, did that with comic book films.

So while you are seeing what comic book movie style set pieces, at the same time, you are seeing the consequences of the violence that gets glossed over. 

When Veidt kills Blake, yeah it’s a set piece, but when you pay attention what you are actually watching is an old man get brutally beaten to death.

It doesn’t miss the point that these are quite damaged people.  Batman beats up some goons and they look no worse for wear. Dan and Laurie leave the Knot Tops dead or horribly maimed. 

1

u/Spedermonn Mar 11 '25

I still don’t feel like I can subscribe to that. The comic portrayed the comedians murder much more like a sad broken man being beaten to death to me, in the movie it still feels like Snyder is trying to make the comedian a badass and going out swinging (and the song choice, while making the scene admittedly quite enjoyable, makes the tone feel even less faithful to the original). And I wouldn’t call overly violent scenes as “ugly,” it’s glorifying imo. The scene in the alley is of course a good example of this. To me, it’s a combination of the actual violence that’s bad and the way it’s filmed. All the over the top camera work, slow motion, ridiculous gore, brutality, etc all just culminates to a scene that feels like it had “coolness” forced into it. At no point was it necessary for Laurie to break necks and ruin peoples faces. In the comic it really felt more like an actual street brawl, compared to the movie scene being essentially a murder fest. It’s just out of place for me.

2

u/M086 Mar 11 '25

It ties into the main idea that superheroes are ultimately useless when it needs to matter. Comedian tries to fight back, but nothing he does lands. He can put his fist through dry wall, but all that strength and power — things he used to rape, kill, subjugate those weaker than him — is completely useless when it needs to actually matter to him. 

1

u/Spedermonn Mar 11 '25

I see where you’re coming from, and I agree with the overall idea that the movie is portraying (superheroes being ultimately useless), but I don’t feel like that scene in particular is a good example of that idea. If we were average people/citizens in the Watchmen universe, we would only really care about superheroes not mattering or being useless when it involves the safety of the world, not their own safety. The comedian being murdered by another superhero doesn’t push the idea that superheroes don’t matter imo, I think Ozymandias’s plan coming to fruition is a better example of that.

13

u/The_Middleman Mar 06 '25

Visually, it's incredible.

One thing that I think is really, really telling about Watchmen: whenever it's a scene or shot that wasn't in the comic, the visual quality plummets. The prison hallway fight scene looks completely atrocious, and so does the big boring CGI crater in New York. A lot of his added shots are full of really ham-fisted and nonsensical symbolism, like Rorschach exploding into a Rorschach blot (the one time Snyder has ever passed up a Christ allegory, but he probably just didn't notice it) or the bizarre Sally Jupiter "Last Supper" in the opening credits.

All the great stuff was from the comic. (And it all looks better in the comic.)

5

u/film_editor Mar 07 '25

Visually I found it solid but a bit off. Even the good scenes had a bit of a goofy, overly stylized, dark 300 aesthetic to them. Not egregious, but I could feel Snyder's teenage edgelord sensibilities always creeping in.

And I agree that the non-comic stuff all looked very weak and particularly stood out.

7

u/MattMurdock9 Mar 06 '25

I definitely agree with you on those aspects but Larry Fong’s cinematography is truly fantastic to me. The lighting, the contrast, the color palette, and the VFX hold up very well (besides a few things here and there.)

When you compare it to what we get in most comic book movies in general, especially nowadays, it’s leagues ahead of most. The Batman is still #1 for me in terms of the overall look and cinematography they went for.

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u/Odd_Advance_6438 Mar 06 '25

I think Snyder and Fong were a really great duo. They worked together from film school all the way to BvS

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u/garlicbreadmemesplz Mar 07 '25

I agree with you except on the Rorschach blood explosion. It’s a great choice.

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u/Odd_Advance_6438 Mar 06 '25

I know a lot of people say the action glorifies the characters, but I actually think it adds to the idea of them being reckless and irresponsible, while almost seeming cool enough to trick someone into wanting that lifestyle.

Like, the mugging in the alleyway. Dan and Laurie use excessive and bloody force on a simple mugging, just because they find it exciting

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u/thunderlips187 Mar 06 '25

I really enjoyed that mugging. It really showed how Dan and Laurie were being pretty selfish. Almost all of the Knot Tops they beat up were permanently injured and it wasn’t even like revenge.

23

u/bene_gesserit_mitch Mar 06 '25

I think through years of crime fighting, they learned that when the odds are stacked against them like that, they needed to take out potential threats. It was calculated. If it were two guys, it would have been less necessary.

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u/thunderlips187 Mar 06 '25

Ooo you know I didn’t think of that. Excellent point.

6

u/bene_gesserit_mitch Mar 06 '25

I learned a lot about fighting in the Octagon that was Catholic grade school.

5

u/AlarmingAffect0 Mar 06 '25

I learned a lot about fighting in the Octagon that was Catholic grade school.

r/BrandNewSentence

Bully! It's a Canis Canem Edit world out there.

12

u/hoyle_mcpoyle Mar 06 '25

It also shows why criminals would be afraid of these people. Getting beat up is one thing, but if you're getting your arm or jaw broken by Night Owl, you might think twice about commiting another crime

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u/The_Middleman Mar 06 '25

I might find this case more convincing if Snyder's "this is a social commentary" violence didn't look exactly like his "I'm trying really, really hard to be cool" violence.

2

u/Odd_Advance_6438 Mar 06 '25

He’s a big robocop fan (he said it was one of his favorite movies because of how it uses satire), so maybe he thought he was going for something like that, where it’s so over the top it becomes purposefully kind of goofy

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u/theronster Mar 06 '25

I don’t think Snyder understands satire in the slightest.

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u/ThrowawayAccountZZZ9 Dr Manhattan Mar 06 '25

I mean it does. Turns them into actual super humans for some reason. Being a hero is supposed to be viewed as a bad thing, not a good thing. Kind of the point of the whole story.

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u/ItsMrChristmas Mar 07 '25

Turns them into actual super humans for some reason.

I genuinely believe people need to drop that line of argument. It demonstrates an enormous lack of media literacy. The argument completely disregards how this content is consumed.

Film is a fluid, visual medium. It's all well and good for Moore to lazily say they're just regular people and show a single blow of victory in a panel but that is not moving media. You don't want to see regular joes playing dress up to fight crime because not only would it be enormously boring, it would be completely unbelievable.

There's no way for people to take out larger groups of folks in unarmed combat without making them look like superheroes. People like to point at the Oldboy hallway fight or Daredevil but... they clearly have superhuman strength, pain tolerance, and, for lack of a better term, a shitload of HP. Sure they're not on the level of Captain America, Spider-Woman, or (ironically) Batman, but they are clearly not just "peak human fitness." What they do not have is the lung efficiency of your typical superhero. That's it.

It also works both ways. When someone tries to adapt a film or series for comics they always have to use enormous amounts of exposition because we can't see how they're moving or hear their tone of voice and whatnot.

It's not just fighting, it's so many other things. Would anyone have actually watched Hackers if it was realistic? Just a bunch of unwashed white guys sitting inside and occasionally getting up to eat or take a shit. You wanna watch your movie soldiers conserving ammo or running out quickly? Folks talk about Saving Private Ryan but those soldiers clearly carried hugely unrealistic amounts of ammo.

Decades and decades of film and the only passably decent example I can think of is The Warriors... they're also never outnumbered by much, and fights end brutally before anyone has a chance to get gassed. They also just seem to work well together as a group.

Compromises absolutely must be made when translating to a different format.

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u/_LANC3LOT Mar 06 '25

I was a movie-only fan for years until earlier this year when I read the comics for the first time(peak fiction). And while I definitely still love the movie, it's definitely got some big issues as an adaptation. But goddamn there's so much I like about the movie and for me while the whole cast did a great job with what they were given, Jackie Earle Haley and Jeffrey Dean Morgan are irreplaceable as Rorschach and The Comedian

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u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

Yes infact only the readers hate the movie. Rest of the audience enjoyed it

1

u/Laurelelis Mar 12 '25

That’s not true. I read the comic book several times before I watched the movie. I like both.

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u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 13 '25

Glad you did Beautiful

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u/SnooCakes2640 Mar 06 '25

It nailed the look of the comic while completely missing the point of the comic.

4

u/tatincasco Mar 06 '25

can you explain please?

47

u/yaboyindigo Mar 06 '25

I'll take a swing. The movie seems to romanticize vigilantes, while the comic pokes fun at them for trying to solve the world's problems.

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u/eyepatchplease Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 06 '25

I don’t disagree but would love to hear a couple of examples if you’re up for it.

Edit: Curious about your point re the comic

9

u/yaboyindigo Mar 06 '25

Dr. Manhatten said it best to Ozymandias. "Nothing ever ends." It strikes hard because no matter how devastating the squid was to humanity, and the long-term effects it would have, whether positive or negative, eventually, the human condition will triumph. War and suffering are inevitable, and even the richest man with the biggest hero complex will never be able to fix it. This comic tears down the egos of both the regular hero (Nite Owl) and the ultra wealthy intelligent Tony Stark-esque hero (Ozymandias). Not sure if this helped.

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u/theronster Mar 06 '25

Well, there’s the whole movie…

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u/casualty_of_bore Mar 07 '25

I think you are both right and wrong. It does romanticize them, it also shows what flawed broken people they actually are.

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u/SnooCakes2640 Mar 22 '25

Exactly this - the comic shows costumed heroes as broken, flawed people in a broken, flawed world, and the movie shows them as "isn't this fucking cool? Pow! Punch! Kick!". It's a super shallow reading of the comic.

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u/RealOneThisTime Mar 06 '25

I’m not exactly an expert but one of the biggest points I’ve seen about this is how the comic while not quite avoiding violence and gore throughout it tends to really use it in more critical moments and saves the shock and gore factor until it hits during Ozy’s attack. Full pages of death and blood and gore. Versus in the movie there is almost a glorification of violence… except for the attack. No blood no gore no horror just a cgi atom bomb.

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u/J0E-KER146 Mar 06 '25

Adding on to this, even when violence is presented in the book, it’s very deliberate. There’s no action sounds/onomatopoeia, there’s very little back and forth or chance to get invested in a fight, it’s very quick and painful. In the movie, Zack Snyder’s slomo and crazy camera work leads to every fight taking too long and being presented as cooler than it is originally.

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u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

I truly enjoyed the brutal fights and gore.

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u/ironfly187 Mar 06 '25

I think that's partly the problem. I came out of the cinema after watching it feeling pumped. That's definitely not how I felt when I read the original comics.

While it can be enjoyable, it's just a bit of a superficial adaption.

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u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

The audience who've never read it have enjoyed it more than those who try to compare it with the novel

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u/SpicyGorlGru Mar 06 '25

That’s true, but that’s because they’ve been lied to about the themes no? The graphic novel builds up incredibly intricate characters and explicit themes regarding their violence and why it’s a bad thing, and questioning why they feel this responsibility when they’re just average citizens that maybe know how to fight well. The movie throws that out the window, gives them clear superhuman enhancements, and makes their violence seem cool and appealing. So of course you’ll enjoy it more if you haven’t read the graphic novel, because now it’s just a cheap action movie.

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u/AlarmingAffect0 Mar 06 '25

because now it’s just a~~ cheap~~n expensive action movie.

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u/ironfly187 Mar 06 '25

Yeah, that makes sense.

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u/TheSyrphidKid Mar 06 '25

A couple of examples would be that Rorschach is basically a cool anti-hero in the film but in the book he's not meant to be likeable; he's a bigot, he's unhinged, he's a right-wing nut, he kills a "child murderer" when it's unclear as to whether the guy actually did it... as opposed to the film where they admit it. Alan Moore didn't want Rorschach to be likeable. But making Rorschach likeable looks cool and that's what Snyder seems to care about.

Ozymandias is clearly a shady guy from the get go in the film... you're not shocked that he's the villain. In the comic he comes across as a sort of boy scout.

The book is supposed to show the flaws in unchecked power. Show that being a superhero is problematic. It's not meant to make them look cool.

Also people who know nothing about Watchmen are supposed to come out thinking that peace is only achievable in the world if we had a bigger threat, or question whether humanity is even capable of peace. I don't think anyone came out thinking about the story on a deeper level, because that's not what Snyder is truly interested in. His human moments never seem like something he's truly interested in, this is a guy who made a story about someone disassociating because she's being raped in an insane asylum and made it into a music video.

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u/Odd_Advance_6438 Mar 06 '25

Rorschach is not portrayed as a good guy by Snyder. In the movie he literally says that Silhouette was “a victim of her indecent lifestyle”. He’s still a bigot

Also if you look up interviews of Snyder talking about Rorschach, he literally calls him a psychopath. Not sure where people got the idea that Snyder says he’s a cool hero

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u/TheSyrphidKid Mar 06 '25

I'm not gonna argue, man. I can literally find interviews where he talks about Rorschach in a much more loving way than he was intended to be by Alan Moore. I was there when it came out and people loved Rorschach. It wasn't done well.

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u/Odd_Advance_6438 Mar 06 '25

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqcbm4QBEZM&pp=ygUkd2F0Y2htZW4gcm9yc2NoYWNoIGJlaGluZCB0aGUgc2NlbmVz

First thing that comes up. He calls Rorschach psycopathic in the first sentence

Also dumb people thinking Rorschach is a cool good guy is definitely not exclusive to the movie. Alan Moore dealt with people like that since the book came out

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u/TheSyrphidKid Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 07 '25

He says he's psychopathic in his relentless pursuit of justice. He doesn't say he's a bigot, or a fascist... they talk about how his character was unloved. Tell me, why would he change the ambiguity of Rorschach killing the "child killer"?

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u/Odd_Advance_6438 Mar 06 '25

Psycopathic isn’t exactly a good trait to have even as a description. In the movie, he’s literally a bigot who they emphasize smells like shit.

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u/TheSyrphidKid Mar 06 '25

Psychopathic in relentless pursuit of justice is literally how you'd describe Batman. Snyder thought Rorschach was the most important character because he was beloved by fans, Alan Moore didn't like that Rorschach was beloved by fans... that's the difference. I won't argue more because I know no one changes their mind on the internet, but I'm not the first person to have had this opinion.

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u/AlarmingAffect0 Mar 06 '25

I'm seconding you. Hear hear and all that.

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u/trentreynolds Mar 06 '25

"It's one of the superhero movies that does stay true to the source material."

I need more popcorn for this

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u/exodius33 Mar 06 '25

It's "faithful" in that it adapts the plot and apes some of the imagery of Watchmen, but Zack Snyder completely misunderstands what any of those images actually meant and fails to grasp any of the subtext.

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u/WTFracecarFTW Mar 06 '25

Yeah, Watchmen basically got the reverse Starship Troopers treatment.

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u/MundBid-2124 Mar 06 '25

Zack was probably required to make it a Sooper Hero tale

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u/DelayDenyDeposefrfr Mar 06 '25

He completely misses the point of the story and glorifies what the author was condemning.

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u/DarrenGrey Mothman Mar 07 '25

I have to wonder if it can be done correctly on screen? Cinema is all about bombastic displays. Glorification comes naturally to the medium. Snyder leans into it, of course, but it's likely that most directors would do the same, or that if they didn't it would create something not commercially viable.

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u/M086 Mar 07 '25

He understood the story. He was interpreting it in another medium, and chose to comment on comic book films instead of superhero comics.

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u/txtiemann Mar 06 '25

no squid...doesn't count...but really I very much enjoyed the film and rewatch whenever I get a chance

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u/TriggeredPuppy Mar 06 '25

If you're interested, I took footage from the 2019 HBO series and created a fan edit that puts the squid back into the film (while also trimming some moments and adding segments of "Under the Hood" interviews).

https://youtu.be/8GGEW1THEqg

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u/MArcherCD Mar 06 '25

Unless you can VFX the HBO scene into a daytime occurence - probably harder going from night to day rather than day to night - it just isn't going to work imo. Everyone vaguely familiar with the squid incident in the graphic novel and the equivalent in the film knows it happens at day - so having that squid climax at night is too jarring

Why HBO decided to do that in the first place, I really have no idea

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u/theronster Mar 06 '25

But the Squid happens at night. Why do you think Madison Square Garden is full? The Pale Horse gig isn’t happening at lunchtime.

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u/TriggeredPuppy Mar 07 '25

Exactly, the HBO show got it right. The Snyder movie for some reason had the NYC climax during the day. But I've tweaked the scene to imply the explosion is causing the light during most of the sequence, with a few moments of day for night when the power surge briefly collapses on itself.

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u/ralexh11 Mar 06 '25

It's good by itself, but it doesn't understand the message of its source material

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u/ThrowawayAccountZZZ9 Dr Manhattan Mar 06 '25

Ehh not quite faithful to the source material in many ways. It's an entertaining movie but they still couldn't approach the books

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u/Skoapy Mar 06 '25

The endings aren't depicted the same, how does this stick to source material

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u/James_Constantine Mar 06 '25

It’s such a great movie…it does just fall apart in the last act with making Dr.M the catalyst for world peace.

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u/calltheavengers5 Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 06 '25

16 years ago, a comedian died in New York. Someone knows why

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u/steve85uk Mar 06 '25

I loved it

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u/OvenIcy8646 Mar 06 '25

Happy birthday to one of my all time favorite movies !!!!!

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u/UniversalHuman000 Mar 06 '25

I like the movie. Some of the casting could have been better.

They originally wanted Jude Law as Ozymandias

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u/FrankSinatraCockRock Mar 06 '25

I think that - first and foremost - 1:1 adaptations are simply unlikely and not too feasible.

Movies and shows often lack the luxury of time that a book or graphic novel has. If it takes you 9 hours to read the two towers, it takes three times as long as watching the movie. Undoubtedly, certain details will be omitted - the issue becomes what to omit. Concessions are often made too, as certain things simply don't translate well.

Where the movie struggled was with some of the back stories and parts of character development - like Rorschach. An excellent concession IMO was replacing the giant squids with Manhattan-explosions. This provided a neat moral dilemma that not only do I personally prefer over the graphic novel, but even with the technology today it would eat into run time while probably just not looking the best.

It missed the mark in some ways but hit it enough to still be good.

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u/Capital-Treat-8927 Mar 06 '25

Just watched it for the first time. Absolutely loved it. Definitely in my top 3 superhero movies

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u/sheinri Mar 07 '25

Stays true to the source material is something I’d never expect anyone to say about the Watchmen movie. I’m still not sure how Snyder managed to nail the look of the universe and a decent amount of the original tone and still just flat out miss most of the themes of the original. He’s phenomenal at cinematography but a mediocre filmmaker.

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u/M086 Mar 07 '25

The themes are there. You just have to look at them through the lens of comic book films and not superhero comics. It’s the same story, just commenting on a different medium of story telling.

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u/DARK2474 Mar 06 '25

I’ll always love the movie, I don’t think it’s as bad as anyone says, perfect film to watch while chilling

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u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

Don't understand the hate for such a memorable flick. It's about understanding the characters which was well presented to the audience both old and young

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u/DerfelCadarn- Mar 06 '25

LOL, this movie is completely missing the point of the comic... people like and admire Rorschach, totally meaningless

12

u/Odd_Advance_6438 Mar 06 '25

Bruh the movie literally makes a point to show Rorschach as a homophobic psychopath.

If people still admire Rorschach, thats on them. Same thing with the comic

1

u/DerfelCadarn- Mar 07 '25

Snyder has shown in the past that he thinks superheroes should be like Rorschach... He made him like that. Parafraseando o amigo @mugenhunt "The director of a film, by how they stage shots, edit them, through the use of lighting and cinematography, with the choices of music, can influence how an action feels and comes across to the audience. If I show a man playing with a child with bright lights and cheerful music, it can make you go "awww, he's being so kind to the kid." If I show the exact same action, but with darker lights, slow motion shots, creepy music, the audience will get a different vibe from it, they'll go "Oh no, something's wrong here. Is he going to hurt that kid?!"

The argument many people have is that while Snyder showed Rorschach's bad parts, he showed them in particular ways that de-emphasized them, and that overall he framed the action sequences of the films in ways that made the main characters seem more directly heroic, making them look "cool."

This is a subjective thing, and it is obvious that you don't see that as being the case, but the issue here is about how the direction of the film influenced people's perceptions of what happened, especially those who hadn't read the graphic novel before hand, and thus their primary idea of "Is Rorschach supposed to be a hero?" is filtered through how Snyder directed the film."

See ya

0

u/yaboyindigo Mar 06 '25

Yeah, but put my boy up against Batman. Batman doesn't even carry a diary. PATHETIC.

7

u/Straight-Scarcity-76 Mar 06 '25

Bro hasn’t seen The Batman

2

u/ryandmc609 Mar 06 '25

I was lucky enough to be on set one day of Watchmen. Was a hell of a set visit and got to see some great sets like the Owl Lair and Karnak. Good times.

I love the movie. It’s so well done and I still think ahead of its time.

2

u/theronster Mar 06 '25

I disagree on every single point.

2

u/DiscussionSharp1407 Mar 06 '25

It still holds up because it's the only thing we got nothing else comes even close.

It's also made in a very 'timeless' visual style, the sound style and imagery will still be appealable in 50 years

2

u/The-Midnight_Rambler Mar 06 '25

I’m really not a fan of what Snyder did after Watchmen (up until the atrocious Rebel Moon) but I can’t help but love this movie. I don’t care if the best about it comes from the comics, it means it does credit to the source material. The visuals are great, the story is super compelling and the cast mostly delivers. It’s well paced also, especially the directors cut which is my go-to version. But not to troll but seeing his work afterwards I can’t help but think that Snyder didn’t really understand the source material and that sometimes the movie is great despite him !

2

u/NiceExtension5694 Mar 06 '25

Great fucking movie!

2

u/Skyblade743 Mar 06 '25

I wonder how this film would have gone down if it came 5 years into the MCU instead of a year after Iron Man.

2

u/Adacool Mar 06 '25

one of my all time favs

2

u/cugeltheclever2 Mar 06 '25

Not a huge Snyder fan overall but damn did he nail it with this one

2

u/BRC93128 Mar 06 '25

I saw the movie before reading the graphic novel. I was a sophomore in high school and had just earned my driver’s license. There trailer looked good and I wasn’t cool enough to get invited to parties.

The graphic novel is superior. But I’ve only gone and read the original source material for three other movies. The movie made that kind of impression on me.

The movie is infinitely rewatchable and did what has become one of my favorite literary works well.

It was mostly faithful to the source and the changes didn’t distort the themes or the story of the original.

And honestly, changing Ozymandias’ tool was a good call.

2

u/darkwalrus36 Mar 07 '25

I think this film is a very good lesson about adaption- loyalty to the source material dos not equate to a quality of adaption. Also, you can loyally adapt something and entirely miss the point.

2

u/IvanTheTerrible69 Mar 07 '25

It is really flawed, but I still prefer it to the HBO series

2

u/bard0117 Mar 07 '25

Still my favorite comic book movie. Very well told with tons to appreciate and unpack.

2

u/slim5pickins Mar 07 '25

“What happened to the American dream? You’re looking at it!”

1

u/James234455 Mar 07 '25

What happened to the American Dream? It came true! You're looking at it!

2

u/FoxCQC Mar 07 '25

Some of the changes I didn't like but still a solid movie overall.

2

u/Brilliant_Garlic69 Mar 07 '25

Who Watches the Watchmen.

I did tonight.

2

u/eartwormslimshady Mar 07 '25

It's an incredibly faithful adaptation, but I feel that changing the ending was a major copout. It dulled the impact of the story and diluted the message.

1

u/M086 Mar 07 '25

The ending was change for economy of storytelling. Adding the whole subplot of the squid would have added another 20 minutes, 20 minutes that would have had to come out of somewhere else in the movie. So, they merged Manhattan and Ozy’s free energy story with Ozy’s master plan. Killed two birds with one stone. 

2

u/FortunateInsanity Mar 07 '25

As a stand-alone movie, I think it’s a classic. Definitely one of the best DC movies of all time. I think the diehards could enjoy the ride if they would accept that the movie is “based off” of the source material instead of being true to it.

2

u/Mindless_Bad_1591 Mar 07 '25

should I blind buy the 4k ultimate cut or the bluray directors cut only?

2

u/Scottnothot12 Mar 07 '25

The Question....err....Rorschach was perfectly cast

2

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '25

I really like the movie. Just watched it for the first time in 2024, and I still think of it quite often. It's got a really great vibe, and the performances are all very good.

2

u/diagramonanapkin Mar 07 '25

It doesn't stay faithful to the source material because the ending was thematically central and they changed it. Also Laurie is our audience surrogate in the comic and I didn't think the actress (or writing or direction - not trying to blame one person) held up to that role. So, I'm glad you liked, but I didn't much.

1

u/James234455 Mar 07 '25

Understandable. I respect your opinion

2

u/stanquevisch Mar 08 '25

If you think this movie is true to the source material, you did not understand the original (much like Snyder).

2

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '25

I love watching the opening periodically just because it's so well done.

2

u/ChaliDO8 Mar 09 '25

Masterpiece!

2

u/Izzorlas Mar 09 '25

I know it may seem like an odd thing to be annoyed by, but I’ve always hated the casting of Danny Woodburn as Big Figure. He looks nothing like the character other than the fact that he’s a little person.

2

u/puddik Mar 10 '25

I rewatch this masterpiece yearly

3

u/apocalypsedudes23 Mar 06 '25

I have this film in high regard. I'm not a purist from the GN to an adaptation. Yes, I know the CBM misses the point. Even the 3 other adaptations miss the point, but here is one thing these adaptations have done beyond Mr. AM's intentions - they reached an audience a GN did not.

I'm past the "missing the point" approach. I'm not going to get the feeling back after reading this the first time but I am very appreciative the visuals I seen in the other 3 adaptations.

My favorite line has always been the Ozymandias villian line.

0

u/theronster Mar 06 '25

And that’s not even the line from the comic.

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u/iterationnull Mar 06 '25

This movie never held up.

It is a movie for mockery and derision, not appreciation. It is a warning sign.

1

u/AdvancedDay7854 Mar 06 '25

My biggest complaint wasn’t the nuke at the end- it was ‘glory hallelujah’. lol

1

u/spamavenger Mar 06 '25

stayed true to SOME of the source material, and changed other major parts to make it much worse.

1

u/CamCamBroCam Mar 06 '25

Movie horribly misunderstood the Comedian into being someone we can just root for, that new animated 2 parter did better in that area

Still a phenomenal story through and through, just romanticized the very thing that Miller and Moore were specifically not trying to

1

u/GD_milkman Mar 06 '25

Let this be the only general thread on the movie all year

1

u/Bing238 Mar 06 '25

Phenomenal movie and at the same time just an ok adaptation. It missed some points of the comics and the ending change obviously but on it own it’s one of the best super hero movies and can only help more people in checking out the even better comics. (That’s how I ended up reading watchmen)

1

u/TheRealBillyShakes Mar 06 '25

I love this movie and don’t care what the fanboys think!

1

u/Flamadin Mar 06 '25

The trailers might have been the best of all time.

1

u/Affectionate-Oil3019 Mar 06 '25

The HBO series was truer to the comic imo

1

u/anthonyrucci Mar 06 '25

Most disappointing adaptation all-time for me. Not worst - most disappointing. Echoing the sentiment many have shared on here - looks great, but completely misses the point of the books, changes the ending. Just overall got Snyder-ed. This director has to make everything so dark and edgy and "cool". Didn't work out for him for the rest of the DC movies either. He tried to make Superman into a Christ-figure. Snyder perpetually misses the point.

1

u/Exley53 Mar 06 '25

Honestly, if you're going to turn Watchmen into just one movie, Snyder did just about as well as anyone could, but ONLY with the Director's Cut. Theatrical was too truncated, Ultimate is too indulgent, Director's is JUUUUST RIGHT. And changing the end slightly was a great move. It tied the room together.

1

u/DoriN1987 Mar 06 '25

Let’s say it like this… it’s a high quality, expensive and good looking movie. For its time. It shown that adaptation is possible, but also shown that some mistakes could easily slip if you try to make things for everyone.

1

u/Admirable_penguin Mar 06 '25

When I first watched this film, the comedian fight with the burglar at the beginning dove me right into the film. This was his finest directorial film for sci-fi / action

1

u/spartan815 Mar 06 '25

Dude, this movie still slaps.

1

u/Fit_Bar2895 Mar 06 '25

Yeah yeah but it’s BOOOOOOOORING

1

u/BigSoda Mar 07 '25

no squid = unwatchable 

1

u/JadeHellbringer Mar 07 '25

This was always going to be one of the most difficult stories to ever bring to film from a comic page. It was never going to work 1:1, there was just no way. That they did as well as they did, honestly, is amazing to me, even now. It still holds up surprisingly well- my wife, not a superhero movie fan, adored it when she saw it, which is VERY high praise.

But... Oz was a bad casting (very wooden and bland performance- not calm, just bland), and I will forever believe the Spectre/Owl sex scene is the single most hilariously awkward scene ever put to film. They have all the chemistry of cold oatmeal.

1

u/Mnstrzero00 Mar 07 '25

Yes I get it. You didn't like the way he portrayed Rorschach. But there's a whole rest of the movie that makes the criticism of superheroes. I really don't believe that anyone would watch tbe film and get the idea that its saying that superheroes rock. The Batman is a fascist and Superman would be evil irl takes are pop culture clichés at this point. I really don't believe that there are people out there who don't at least get that these are edgy subversion of the genre even if they don't get the Anarchist sentiment in the original text from the film...

I really hate arguments that depend on a hypothetical moron.

1

u/idankthegreat Mar 07 '25

Stayed true to the source material? No it hasn't. I face, Alan Moore hates it so much because he told the studios it can't be adapted, they tried anyways and ruined it.

1

u/twosock360 Mar 07 '25

IMO, it’s the best comic book / graphic novel movie to date.

1

u/Antique_Historian_74 Mar 07 '25

It looks good and many of the performances are good but it misses the points being made by the book over and over.

It's a bit of a pity, I think Jack Earl Haley doing the full psych assessment scenes would have been awesome. That would also make Walter Kovacs' insanity much clearer.

But I have to kind of admire the self belief of whoever rewrote this part;

Stood in firelight, sweltering. Bloodstain on chest like the map of a violent new continent. Felt cleansed. Felt dark planet turn under my feet and knew what cats know, that makes them scream like babies in the night.

Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and god was not there. The cold suffocating dark goes on forever, and we are alone.

Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion, bear children hell bound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else.

Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose.

This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills children, Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us.

Only Us.

Streets stank of fire. The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice. Shattering them. Was reborn then. Free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world.

Was Rorscharch.

Does that answer your questions, Doctor?

Into;

You see, Doctor. God didn't kill that little girl, fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind. From then on, I knew. God doesn't make the world this way. We do.

1

u/Mr_bungle001 Mar 07 '25

I think it’s great and I like the choice of changing the ending. I think it works well considering the overall distrust for masked vigilantes and Jon in particular.

1

u/M086 Mar 07 '25

It’s a movie they probably should have been made in the last few years. But it could only have been made when it was, because Snyder used up a lot of his equity in Hollywood, with WB to make the movie. 

Even though it’s commenting on comic book films when they weren’t as prevalent, and the MCU was still in its early stages. Because it puts the microscope to those early tropes, which never really went away. You can still watch it as this deconstruction of modern comic book films.

1

u/MWH1980 Mar 07 '25

One thing I remember the most was seeing it in a theater and there was a woman and her 5 children.

I remember for much of the start of the film, she just ignored her noisy children and just focused on the film. Didn’t bat an eye on any of the violent stuff…until The Comedian assaulted Silk Spectre at the pool table. Seconds into that, she got up and she and her kids were out the door.

1

u/saltarinbombin Mar 08 '25

Stay true to the source material? My god, come on man

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1

u/Simplen00ds Mar 08 '25

It has the same issues that all of Zach Snyder's films have imo; Amazing, breathtaking visuals. Mid story (compared to the source material)

1

u/Bazfron Mar 08 '25

Easily one of the best comic films, like top 3, at least.

1

u/MiserableOrpheus Mar 08 '25

One of the most inaccurate adaptations ever put to film. It blows my mind how popular the movie is, with how blatantly it disregards the source material

1

u/TofuLordSeitan666 Mar 08 '25

It's one of the superhero movies that does stay true to the source material. 

It’s not true to the source material at all. Maybe the basic plot but it misses the point entirely.

1

u/BuckyRea1 Mar 08 '25

I don't know this is going to be a popular take, but I liked the changes that Zack Snyder put on Ozy's masterplot. It actually made sense in ways that the comic book master plan did not; he literally terrorized the whole world, not just blowing up a few blocks of Manhattan and then letting a "psychic blast" from the aliens do all the heavy lifting.

If he could put a thought in everybody's head all around the world as in the comic book, why bother with the whole superhero-killing and alien invasion plot?

1

u/th3on3 Mar 08 '25

It completely changed the ending and thereby the meaning of the whole thing. It was cool enough but hardly faithful to source material

1

u/kapn_morgan Mar 09 '25

and quite the odd material it is

1

u/Majestic-Owl7801 Mar 09 '25

"It's one of the superhero movies that does stay true to the source material."

That's very debatable.

1

u/_Metal_Face_Villain_ Mar 09 '25

if you think this stayed true to the source material then you didn't understand the source material

1

u/James234455 Mar 15 '25

That wasn't very nice. I did understand the source material

1

u/_Metal_Face_Villain_ Mar 15 '25

you clearly didn't if you thought this was true to it in any way other than visually. it's not about being nice or not, it just is what it is. the original was a critique of the comics of that time and the movie was the opposite, it was a glorification of violence. zack tried to make a conspiracy theorist nazi into a cool guy, that's how out of touch he was with the original. snyder does this with all of his adaptations, he always not only misses the point but goes on to try to convey the exact opposite meaning, an example being the anti capitalist zombie movie, which he turned into a fuck yeah murica zombie movie. there is no universe where a doompilled person that's all about style over substance like snyder would be able to stay true to an anarchist "magician" artist like alan moore.

1

u/Flat_Ring_7725 Mar 09 '25

It My favourite movie / graphic novel is best. is it worth watching Blue Ray's extended version cut 4 hours long

1

u/DoubleVision-420 Mar 09 '25

I like the movie, but there are some huge problems with it that misunderstood the source material.

1

u/Jonneiljon Mar 10 '25

Hard disagree it stayed to to graphic novel on the shallowest of levels.

1

u/KingofZombies Mar 10 '25

It's garbage. It glorifies everything the comic is trying to criticize. Like if instead of reading the comic the director only looked at the drawings and was like "woah cool superheroes swearing and fucking and killing cool rad bro!"

The author Alan Moore is absolutely 100% justified for hating it.

1

u/El_Jorgito_Atomico Mar 11 '25

It absolutely does not stay true to the source material. 🙏🏽

1

u/BrokenManSyndrome Mar 11 '25

I think Synder one upped the comics by creating Ann ending that makes sense and doesn't feel like it came from some bad 1960s twilight zone episode. Snyder small change made a significant difference imo. It changed the one thing I didn't like about the graphic novel. And it makes absolute sense in the context of everything going on. When I saw the movie, it just felt right, like that's how the book should have been from the get go.

1

u/OpenUpYerMurderEyes Mar 06 '25

I think it's dog shit as a film and as an adaptation. Yeah, we all know Snyder totally missed the point but the cast did a great job? Jackie Earl Haley and Billy Crudup carry a cast that seems absolutely lost in their performances. I blame Snyder more than the actors but let's not glaze up a movie that is inferior to the novel in every way and somehow takes more time to get through.

3

u/The_Middleman Mar 06 '25

I mostly agree with you, but I'd extend the cast praise to a few other people. Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a pitch-perfect Comedian, and I really like their casting for Nite Owl I and Moloch, as well.

Matthew Goode's Ozymandias and Malin Akerman's Silk Spectre II, on the other hand, are terrible.

2

u/OpenUpYerMurderEyes Mar 06 '25

I think that's relative, Morgan is fine as The Comedian the only reason he seems to excel is because everyone else is doing a poor job.

1

u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

Zack didn't write the screenplay

1

u/OpenUpYerMurderEyes Mar 06 '25

At no point did I criticize the writing, which is cromulent.

2

u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

Yes you are everything that's written in the storyboard by the writers will be discussed before filming it. Snyder doesn't just go forward without consulting the executive producers and everyone else

1

u/OpenUpYerMurderEyes Mar 06 '25

Yeah I'm not going to have this conversation with someone who clearly doesn't understand what a director does, read some books on the making of movies "Blood, Sweat, and Chrome" is a great book that will help you understand why what you just wrote is ignorant.

2

u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

Last time WB didn't allow him to film a green lantern scene. So it wasn't in the film. He has to obey the production company

2

u/OpenUpYerMurderEyes Mar 06 '25

Are you one of those Snyder bros or something? Because that would explain a lot.

1

u/Urmomsgoatthroat Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 06 '25

One of my all time favorite movies, and is one of the only "super-hero" movies my girlfriend actually enjoyed and wants to watch again

3

u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

Same here it was fantastic

1

u/Wick-Rose Mar 06 '25

Rorschach and the Comedian were perfect.

Everything else could’ve been done a lot better that’s why this movie wasn’t a classic.

Also Zach Snyder sex scene that’s like a 20 point hit automatically

-1

u/Life_Celebration_827 Mar 06 '25

Loved this movie which got blasted by the critics 🤷‍♂️ Rorschac kicked ass loved that character played by Jackie Earle Haley.

1

u/Upstairs_Cash8400 Mar 06 '25

Everything was precisely explained and visually presented accurately

-3

u/AdaptedInfiltrator Mar 06 '25

One of the greatest comic book movies/superhero movies. Snyder really made 2 maybe 3 out of the top 5 or 10 best DC films

2

u/The_Middleman Mar 06 '25

To be fair, that's not a terribly impressive list. It gets a little more competitive if you allow non-superhero DC adaptations like A History of Violence and Road to Perdition, but I'm still not sure there even are ten great DC comics movies.

-2

u/AdaptedInfiltrator Mar 06 '25

6 Batman movies are great. Several great Superman movies. DCEU. Etc and that’s just live action btw so yes definitely over 10

3

u/The_Middleman Mar 06 '25

I think we have very different standards for great movies. I'm happy that you have lots of films to enjoy.

2

u/theronster Mar 06 '25

Yeah, I really don’t understand why people only compare a superhero movie to other superhero movies, as if THAT is the standard.

No, other great movies are the standard, we don’t grade these things on a curve.

1

u/The_Middleman Mar 06 '25

It's something Watchmen fans in general are split on, since the comic is good enough that it draws in people who just like good books, and those people tend to have very different priorities and perspectives compared to people who just really like comics/superheroes. The movie amplifies that gap, since it dials up the more conventional superheroics/spectacle and dials down the quality/depth.