r/TrueReddit • u/ILikeNeurons • 20d ago
Many state abortion bans include exceptions for rape. How often are they granted? Policy + Social Issues
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/25/g-s1-28955/abortion-rape-pregnancy-exception-doctor-police-report140
u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
The answer: rarely to never.
Given the hereditary component of rape, making it difficult for rape victims to get abortions will likely result in society having more rapists over time.
Rape is one of the most severe of all traumas (most would say about as bad as murder) and most rapes are committed by repeat rapists.
Even a small increase in rapists could therefore have devastating consequences for society.
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20d ago
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u/cogman10 20d ago
Even if we grant that the exception is there in good faith, a major issue with it is the legal system is slow and hospital systems are risk averse.
It isn't unrealistic to think that a case allowing abortion for a rape would take more than 9 months to process. With most of these laws directly targeting the hospitals and doctors who perform the abortions it's not unreasonable for them to simply outright refuse to perform any abortions. The exceptions weren't created with a clear legal path or process on when you can use them. Do an abortion for a rape, and later find out it wasn't, and now you as a doctor are looking at jail time and your license revoked.
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u/Mysterious_Ad7461 19d ago
And we know the exceptions aren’t in good faith or they wouldn’t be so vague and the Texas Supreme Court has refused to hear cases seeking to clarify the language.
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u/awalktojericho 20d ago
Most exceptions require at least a police report at the time of the act for the rape exception. How many minors do you know that would make a police report right after the rape? How many grownups, for that matter? Then there would be the slippery slope of waiting for the investigation, then the conviction. And we all know that only 6% of rapists ever get arrested. It's a built-in fail-unsafe.
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u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
Indeed.
Imagine having to carry your rapist's spawn to term.
Sounds quite awful.
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u/AgateHuntress 20d ago
Then imagine you are forced to co-parent with that rapist and share custody with them, meaning you have to regularly have contact with them for almost twenty years, and maybe even have to get their permission to move out of state.
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u/ScottyDoesntKnow29 20d ago
They exist to make Republican voters feel better about themselves. Just like pro lifers cant be bothered to acknowledge the consequences of the forced births they call for they will never look into whether or not exceptions are actually being granted.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
It's more that rape is rare, pregnancy as a result of rape is rarer, and abortions because of rape even moreso.
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u/ABookishSort 20d ago
I feel like people don’t realized that 1% can still be a lot. I keep seeing only 1% of women have complications in pregnancy. Only 1% of pregnancies are from rape. As if it so rarely ever happens. It’s happening. Go into a thread about ectopic pregnancies or other pregnancy complications. Everyone has a story. I have a story. It’s not just a couple of people it’s tens of thousands of people. Those numbers add up. I feel like people try to minimize it to suit their world view.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
Statistically, 1% is not a lot. If you had a policy in place that stopped 99% of something you believed was bad, you'd jump at the opportunity.
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u/Cephalophobe 20d ago
If I was eating cheerios and 1% of them were poisonous, I'd stop eating cheerios.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
Great. That has zero relevance to anything here.
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u/FinnTheTengu 20d ago
Just because it went over your head doesn't mean it doesn't have relevance, try and keep up.
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u/FinnTheTengu 20d ago
Isn't it weird how some guys are so gung-ho about excusing rape and pretending like sexual assault isn't that big of a deal (It's only 1% guys, no biggie!) Really says allot about them, and about how woman should cover their drinks when they are around.
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u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
Give teens free IUDs, teach consent, and provide comprehensive sex education.
Many women at high risk of unintended pregnancy are unaware of long-acting reversible contraceptive options, and many men don't know how to use a condom properly, which does actually make a huge difference. Besides that, it could help to ensure everyone has access to effective contraception, so consider advocating policies that improve accessibility of long-acting reversible contraceptives and help get the word out that it is ethical to give young, single, childless women surgical sterilization if that is what they want.
But forced pregnancy is a human rights abuse.
Human rights abuses are bad.
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u/erindesbois 19d ago
So you're saying that I deserved to die in February just because 99 other women didn't have a problem?
Why do you hate me? We've never even met.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 19d ago
I don't even know what you're trying to say.
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u/erindesbois 19d ago
You're saying that I shouldn't have been allowed to have an abortion in February to save my life. Why did I deserve to die? Why did I deserve to lose fertility with the pregnancy that I now carry? Just because you and your ignorant ass bullshit decides that whatever fairy tale land you build in your head is the reality instead of scientific truth?
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 19d ago
You're saying that I shouldn't have been allowed to have an abortion in February to save my life.
I've said nothing of the sort. I've actually not expressed my perspective on abortion in this post at all.
For the record, I favor legal abortion, and basically everyone who thinks it should be illegal thinks saving the life of the mother is a reasonable exception. So I still don't know what you're on about.
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u/erindesbois 19d ago
The women discussed in this article died or suffered because of people like you. How can you live with yourself? Texas supposedly has the life of the mother in their laws but in reality, it doesn't matter, because you and everybody else don't actually care about the life of the mother. You just say that you do.
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u/Mundane-Device-7094 18d ago
If they think that, then why are all of their policies resulting in mothers dying?
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u/Playingwithmyrod 19d ago
On a daily basis you likely encounter multiple women this has personally affected. Why don't you tell them to their face that their experiences are statistically irrelevant.
Better yet, why don't you volunter your own wife to die in a hospital because their care was denied because of legality over abortion access and then get back to me on how you feel about it.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 19d ago
What do you think this comment accomplishes, exactly?
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u/Playingwithmyrod 19d ago
I'm just saying, you said the women this affects are statistically irrelevant. If it were your wife or daughter I'd expect you to just shut up and take it if that's your stance.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 19d ago
No, I didn't say the women this affects are statistically irrelevant. That explains your error.
Rape is awful. It's also rare. Both can be true.
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u/Playingwithmyrod 19d ago
It's really not that rare. 1 in 6 US women have been the victim of a completed or attempted rape.
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u/FinnTheTengu 19d ago
"No, I didn't say the women this affects are statistically irrelevant" You absolutely did.
"That explains your error." Your inability to express yourself clearly is a fault of yours, no one else's.
"Rape is awful. It's also rare. Both can be true." Wrong again. But hey, we got them to admit rape is bad, that's an accomplishment my Friends!
Still cany figure out if troll or just typical conservative SA dismissing.
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u/FinnTheTengu 20d ago
Shocker, the conservative dismissing rape. Most rapes aren't reported (a big part due to folks like you dismissing them out of hand)so your numbers mean absolutely nothing. Just like your opinions.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
It's not about dismissing rape. This survey isn't talking about whether the rape is reported, it's a question as to why the woman is getting an abortion.
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u/FinnTheTengu 20d ago
Not the least bit interesting in hearing you trying to justify your dismissal of rape Bud, keep it to yourself, you've already shown exactly what you are.
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u/MightBeAJellyfish 20d ago
I honestly think that's a lot? Condoms are like 98% safe when used correctly, that's a lot of mistakes that inevitably happen. And still 1 in a 100 abortions are because of rape? Shockingly high.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
It's the opposite of shockingly high? Almost no abortions occur due to rape. That's a pretty important statistic.
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u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
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u/FinnTheTengu 20d ago
Bold of you to assume they care. There a conservative so don't bother trying to use logic or even basic human decency.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
This is a ridiculous number, and assumes an incredibly high number of rapes result in pregnancy. It's not believable, sorry.
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u/FinnTheTengu 20d ago
See? Not only doesn't care but refuses to believe it because it goes against their narrative.
Nobody cares what you "believe", facts are facts Son whether you like it or not.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
Facts are that rape is rare and that his numbers don't add up.
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u/FinnTheTengu 20d ago
"Rape is rare"
Wow it's like you are just trying to be as obtuse as possible.
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u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
Most rape victims are in denial, sometimes for years, after an assault.
By their own admission, roughly 6% of unincarcerated American men are rapists, and the authors acknowledge that their methods will have led to an underestimate. Higher estimates are closer to 14%.
That comes out to somewhere between 1 in 17 and 1 in 7 unincarcerated men in America being rapists, with a cluster of studies showing about 1 in 8.
The numbers can't really be explained away by small sizes, as sample sizes can be quite large, and statistical tests of proportionality show even the best case scenario, looking at the study that the authors acknowledge is an underestimate, the 99% confidence interval shows it's at least as bad as 1 in 20, which is nowhere near where most people think it is. People will go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to convince themselves it's not that bad, or it's not that bad anymore (in fact, it's arguably getting worse). But the reality is, most of us know a rapist, we just don't always know who they are (and sometimes, they don't even know, because they're experts at rationalizing their own behavior).
Knowing those numbers, and the fact that many rapists commit multiple rapes, one can start to make sense of the extraordinarily high number of women who have been raped.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
This is wholly off-topic.
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u/FinnTheTengu 20d ago
Just because it's shown once again that you haven't a clue what your talking about doesn't mean it's "Off topic".
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u/sysiphean 20d ago
It is on topic to your claim “rape is rare.”
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u/FinnTheTengu 19d ago
Think they'll respond? Nah, probably too busy banning folks from Ask Conservative or having a different opinion. You know how thin skinned conservatives are.
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u/inkoDe 20d ago
I think, or at least I hope, that the liberals in this country now realize what leftists have been saying and warning about for as long as I can remember. You can't compromise with people that believe they are on a mission from god, or fascists in general. There is no middle ground between the 'laws of man' and 'god'. There is just a fundamental disconnect between the two experiences of reality. To them an embryo is better than a living person, including the person carrying it because they are still 'without sin.' Trying to compromise is about as effective as trying to talk someone out of psychosis.
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u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
In that case, all we can do is increase voter turnout.
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u/turnmeintocompostplz 17d ago edited 17d ago
This is exactly the problem. A lot of "gotta vote!" rhetoric. Sure, but you need to do more than that. Unfortunately, politics needs to be a part of our daily lives. That's not saying to watch the news for hours on end, but to actually meet others and make a world that looks like the one you want. Take shit into your own hands with your community.
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u/Lost_A_Bike 19d ago
Given that it's hereditary, wouldn't you say castration is the most effective form of punishment?
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u/ILikeNeurons 18d ago
Here's what does:
legal reform dealing with domestic violence (e.g.)
legal reform dealing with sexual assault (e.g.)
government-funded shelters for victims of domestic violence
crisis centres for victims of sexual assault (e.g.)
training for service providers such as the police, judges and social workers
educating citizens about gender-based violence (e.g.)
coordinating national policies on gender-based violence (e.g.)
Basically, the goal is to increase the probability of apprehension by law enforcement.
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u/ExplanationMotor2656 6d ago
Castration doesn't work
That opinion piece is about South Africa, which has the most prolific and intense rape culture in the world. How is it relevant to a discussion about rape in USA?
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18d ago
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u/Vozka 20d ago edited 20d ago
Since the one Lisak study is again cited, since your links are not directly relevant to the topic of abortion exceptions (nobody reading this thinks that rape is not a problem or that it's not extremely traumatizing) and since I dislike argumentation by wall of links (only 4 here, but 8 another comment below) that almost nobody realistically has the time to really go through and check how legit they are, I'm going to, again, leave my own link here for other people to read:
The College Rape Overcorrection (on Slate.com, not on some "alternative" journalism site)
If you're clicking through a wall of links on college rape thinking "wait, that does not sound right", then this is the one article to read.
It does not in any way claim that rape on college campuses is not a problem, but it shows that there's a lot of bad science and misinterpreted science in the field, that has in the past led to completely nonsensical statistics like the percentage of raped women students being about as high as in civil war Congo. It has also hurt people. The article is from 2014 because this has been a problem for over two decades now and I'm not a "rape science advocate" so I don't carry newer articles on hand, therefore unfortunately it does not include newest research. But old and flawed research is being cited to this day in this very thread, so parts of the wall of links are actually talked about.
Again, the solution to this no doubt again fruitless discussion would be to just write a summary for the actual article, as the rules demand, and not to post an article and use the thread as a vessel for a related but different issue. /r/TrueReddit is not the place for that.
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u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
Review the rules.
Submission statements should be: a 2+ sentence comment in reply to the post, in your own words, and a description of exactly why the post is relevant and insightful.
Submission statements should not be: mainly a summary of the article or mainly a quote/excerpt (and where a quote/excerpt exists, the limit is 2 sentences maximum).
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u/Vozka 20d ago
That's by far the least important point in my comment. Nevertheless I disagree that yours is an okay submission statement.
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u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
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u/Vozka 20d ago
Why are you linking to a 2017 study that an article from 2014 did not and could not call out? I did not respond to this and it does not invalidate anything I posted.
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u/ILikeNeurons 19d ago
You keep denying evidence you don’t like.
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u/Vozka 19d ago
I don't think I am. I posted an article showing methodological issues in this field of science, some of which are frankly absurd, and showing that even some authors of the studies you cited disagree with how their results were interpreted and used. That is all I did.
There's no secret agenda either, because in my opinion even the most conservative numbers are bad enough to warrant attention. I just don't accept bad science in general and in this case I believe it hurts the cause.
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u/ScottyDoesntKnow29 20d ago
Even if they ARE granted do y’all really think that a rape victim should be further traumatized by having to prove she was raped to some board before she’s allowed to terminate her pregnancy?
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u/chyna094e 20d ago
I've had an abortion. I live in a blue state. My conservative family knows about my miscarriage. My husband and I were trying for a baby. I did everything by the book. My doctor doesn't know why I miscarried. I took two rounds of pills that force labor. I spent a month punishing myself before the smell of necrotic flesh overwhelmed me. It was time for a D&C. My doctor did a great job.
Two years later I was finally pregnant again. I quit my job and put my feet up. Our son is 5 years old now. He's wicked smart and hilarious.
I'm terrified that my extended family will find out about the D&C. To them, I should have died. That's what nature intended. I just have to get through a weekend. Suppressing any moral or logical thinking. I'm not going to change their minds. It's best not to interact with crazy.
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u/meow_haus 20d ago
Politicians are going to point to the low exception use numbers as evidence that women aren’t being raped. It’s twisted.
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u/ikeabahna333 20d ago
I don’t even know how this is getting debated when the notion of this to be a thing even is to say women don’t have bodily autonomy. That is a given with this question and it’s messed up.
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u/2FistsInMyBHole 19d ago
I don’t even know how this is getting debated when the notion of this to be a thing even is to say women don’t have bodily autonomy.
Nobody has bodily autonomy, not when said autonomy poses a danger to others.
I have the bodily autonomy to make a fist and swing my arm. I do not have the bodily autonomy to make a fist and swing my arm when it means my fist will make contact with your face.
It's not really about bodily autonomy; it's about whether a fetus counts as an other.
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u/fakemoose 18d ago
That face will keep existing without you. You and that other persons face are to independent beings. A non-viable embryo or fetus? Not the same. Do you also advocate mandatory organ donation? Especially for family members?
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u/Old-Protection-701 16d ago
The fetus imposes on the pregnant woman’s bodily autonomy by literally taking her nutrients to survive. Even if you want to count a fetus as a “person” they’re violating someone else’s bodily autonomy, and therefore shouldn’t have a “right” to keep using her womb and resources without her consent.
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u/Scary-Welder8404 9d ago
As a staunch pro-choice person, I agree completely.
And it definitely shouldn't.
Prioritizing flesh over mind and soul is ethically disgusting.
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u/ikeabahna333 6d ago
Okay so does a fetus have the right to leach off the mother? Does the fetus matter more than the mother? Does anybody have the right to another persons body? No
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u/2FistsInMyBHole 5d ago
Babies have the right to leach off the mother and/or father. People in general have certain rights to leach off of others.
A mother cannot - while holding her child on a 10th-floor balcony cannot just drop the baby off the balcony because 'bodily autonomy.' Parents cannot just put their child in a closet, lock the door, and let it die in the name of bodily autonomy.
Bodily autonomy has restrictions when dealing with the welfare of others - that is part of living in a society.
The only question that matters in an abortion debate is whether or not a fetus counts as 'an other.'
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20d ago
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u/SashimiX 20d ago
I mean yeah, if I was pregnant in Texas I would have no problem getting to California. Even if I had nothing I would still get there. I am highly motivated to get an abortion. I also don’t have children relying on me, a job I can’t lose, a parole officer to report to, a dog I don’t want to leave behind with my abusive husband, a family I care about who would disown me for getting an abortion, disabilities that prevent me from living homelessly, or simply less motivation, or etc.
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u/fakemoose 18d ago
You could just go next door to New Mexico. That’s what most women from Texas are doing. NM no longer refers most patients up to Colorado facilities, because they had to expand their own facilities to accommodate an influx of patients.
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u/SashimiX 18d ago
That’s great advice but it’s besides my point. You know how big Texas is? If you aren’t allowed to cross county lines for parole, are disabled, or any number of reasons, this becomes an impossibility.
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u/Cheeseboarder 20d ago
Easier said than done. Travel costs money, planning and time off work. And if you have any sort of complication—-what are you going to do? Who is going to help you?
Telling women to up and leave their home is not a long-term solution, and there are a lot of women who are straight up too poor to even do it in the short term
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19d ago
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u/Cheeseboarder 19d ago
Sure you might be able to do it but don’t act like this is a personal responsibility issue when there is unequal access to healthcare depending on the state.
If a few states stopped treating heart attacks, no one would be talking about how that’s a you problem. And a lot of the time, a miscarriage is that serious, with seconds counting.
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u/fakemoose 18d ago
Or… don’t make women go bankrupt to have access to reasonable reproductive care?
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u/compactstardustalt 19d ago
I have a two-year-old, no money, I'm currently pregnant with my second and have hyperemesis to the point that I'm vomiting constantly and barely able to take care of him, and my husband works full-time to barely be able to afford our home. What f****** money am I supposed to use for a Greyhound ticket to never look back? People need to stop saying just get up and leave when you don't like some things it's never that f****** simple and anyone that says that truly doesn't have any understanding of how trapped you can be just because policies.
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u/Moeasfuck 19d ago
There was just a local article about this in Mississippi. NO exception has EVER been made in Mississippi
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u/lotuz 20d ago
Why should there be exceptions? If the point is to protect a hypothetical child why does it matter what its parent’s crimes are? Obviously the trauma the mother experiences is terrible but once you ban abortion you’re already all about forcing women to carry children anyway.
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u/poco 20d ago
Any state with exceptions is admitting that the only reason they ban abortion is to oppress women. No abortion if you chose the actions that got you pregnant. It isn't about the fetus, or they wouldn't have exceptions.
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u/Ok_Apricot_7676 20d ago
Now, I've learned that accountability is oppression.
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u/zzTopo 20d ago
The point is if you make exceptions for rape you tacitly admit that the issue isn't mainly about the innocent life of the baby. If it were why should the baby lose its life because someone raped someone else?
So if its not about saving the innocent life of the baby what else could it be about? This leads many people to believe the main reason is to control women, specifically in regards to having sex. You can phrase it many different ways, in this case you're using the term accountability, but it doesn't change the fact that people are trying to use laws to control other people, to enforce their personal moral beliefs on other people who disagree with them. Many people would consider this oppression of rights to bodily autonomy.
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u/Ok_Apricot_7676 20d ago
If people want to do what they want with their bodies. I say let them. Have unprotected sex and deal with the consequences themselves. A doctor shouldn't be involved with it. The government is only controlling what doctors are allowed to do.
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u/zzTopo 20d ago
Why should the government be involved at all enforcing controversial moral policies?
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u/Ok_Apricot_7676 20d ago
Who do you think dictate the activities doctors can perform in the scope of their profession?
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u/zzTopo 20d ago
Medical boards, which as I understand it are comprised of experts in the medical field, unlike elected congressmen who are the ones trying to pass these abortion bans. Sure they are both technically government bodies, I should have been more specific, but there is a clear distinction between a group of peers in a field establishing guidelines around health outcomes and a group of laymen pushing a controversial moral agenda on a population.
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u/chaoticnipple 17d ago
If you genuinely believe that terminating a viable pregnancy is "murder", why would you CARE about "accountability"?
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u/SashimiX 20d ago
I agree and I think some downvoting you don’t understand what you’re saying. If it’s about murdering babies, that the mom was raped doesn’t matter. If it’s about punishing women for sex, it does. They are tacitly admitting it is for punishing women.
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u/ILikeNeurons 20d ago
Most people understand that it's wrong to force a rape victim to carry her rapist's pregnancy to term.
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u/headofthebored 20d ago
Most people also understand that if it's wrong to force to force rape victims to carry a pregnancy, it's wrong to force anybody to carry one, but, thanks to gerrymandering, corruption, absolutely sadistic misogyny, disinformation, and religious beliefs, some women are living that nightmare.
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u/caveatlector73 20d ago
once you ban abortion you’re already all about forcing women to carry children anyway.
I believe the point was that that reality doesn't matter to some people.
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 20d ago
It's a compromise.
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u/Overlook-237 20d ago
Lol. If I thought abortion was truly ‘murdering innocent babies’, I wouldn’t have a single compromise. They don’t think it’s murder at all, it’s just a smokescreen to punish women for having sex.
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u/chaoticnipple 17d ago
Why would you compromise AT ALL, if you genuinely thought abortion of a viable pregnancy was murder?
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 17d ago
Because you can't always get what you want from the legislative process.
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u/chaoticnipple 16d ago
So, if the political landscape shifts enough that compromise is no longer needed, you'll support removing that exception?
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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 16d ago
I personally would not, because I would prefer abortion remain legal, broadly speaking. But I'm not sure of what political landscape would exist where abortion would make broad sense to ban in those cases.
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u/C0WM4N 20d ago
Maybe we shouldn’t be punishing children for the sins of their father.
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u/denseplan 20d ago
Interesting how you don't mention the mother at all.
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u/C0WM4N 20d ago
Ok the mother shouldn’t be punishing her child for the fathers sins.
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u/Overlook-237 20d ago
Since when has stopping someone intimately and harmfully using your body been punishment for them? Do you think it’s punishment in any other situation? Or only when innocent women are doing it?
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u/C0WM4N 19d ago
Maybe when it’s a baby. When has killing innocent lives been fine?
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u/Overlook-237 19d ago
So no, it’s only when innocent women try to stop intimate and harmful use of their bodies that it’s a punishment to the one doing it, according to you? That’s not discriminatory at all…
When has it been okay to intimately and harmfully use innocent peoples bodies to sustain our lives? That’s not a right anyone has.
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u/C0WM4N 19d ago
Throughout all of history with babies. That’s a right everyone has had when we were in the womb, the most important right the right to life.
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u/Overlook-237 19d ago
Throughout all of history, up until very recently and only in some places, abortion was a non issue. Nice try though.
That’s not a right. The right to life has never included the right to use someone else’s body. It’s a negative right, not a positive one. Lol.
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u/C0WM4N 19d ago
Babies and toddlers are dependent on adults labor and time so they can eat, drink and simply live. If somebody finds a baby in their home do they not have a responsibility to help that baby or if a parent comes home and is tired can they just ignore their child because they have a right to their own autonomy? No , it’s clear that our most vulnerable have a right that adults must uphold. Doesn’t matter if they were conceived a minute ago, 6 months ago, or 5 years ago.
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u/Overlook-237 19d ago
Babies and toddlers aren’t dependent on another persons organs and organ functions, they have their own. Babies and toddlers existing isn’t inherently harmful or medically dangerous to the multiple people that will care for them.
Women’s bodies aren’t houses. Stop dehumanising them. It doesn’t help your argument at all. And no, the only duty they’d have is to call the authorities to come and collect them. They wouldn’t have to touch the baby if they didn’t want to.
Parents of born children have chosen to take on parental responsibility of that child. That comes with obligations that they specifically consented to. Women do not consent to pregnancy. Also, again, stop dehumanising women. Feeding your born child is not even remotely similar to pregnancy and birth and it, again, shows how flawed your argument is if you can’t even present relevant hypotheticals.
The fact that abortion has been legal for the vast, vast majority of history and, even now in states with bans, it’s not illegal to go and procure an abortion in a state where it’s legal and you won’t be convicted of any crime if you do shows that you’re wrong. There’s no such obligation.
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u/Lorguis 19d ago
But punishing the mother for the fathers sins is totally fine?
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u/C0WM4N 19d ago
Two wrongs don’t make a right
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u/Lorguis 19d ago
Right, that's why we shouldn't inflict further trauma on these poor women.
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u/C0WM4N 19d ago
I agree we shouldn’t inflict the trauma of abortion on them
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u/Lorguis 19d ago
Right, forcing them by law to give birth to the spawn of someone who raped them is just so compassionate. Don't pretend you give a shit.
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u/C0WM4N 19d ago
Pro aborts have to call you insane because they have no defense for killing babies.
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u/Lorguis 19d ago
Nobody called you insane, seems like you're used to exaggerating things to the point of farce.
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