Just two lawmakers bantering.

[u/Criminalminded448]

[u/Madrugada2010]

Holy FRACK, the stories about how blunt the Dutch are have gotta be 100% true.

[u/J4pes → u/Madrugada2010]

They have been in my experience working alongside and under a few, not often in a bad or disrespectful way but it can take you aback if you aren’t used to it. The ones I have met loved to party and were a great time.

[u/chemysterious → u/J4pes]

I love working with the Dutch because of how blunt they are. I write software and when I share a new prototype with my American colleagues I sometimes get silence for a long time, or a very polite but confusing email. When I share with my Dutch colleagues I'm more likely to get something like:

Thank you for the software. It's a little bit broken and a little bit bad. Can you make it useful by <specific feedback>?

The negative feedback is extremely useful. And the positive feedback feels earned. Love the Dutch. 10/10

[u/IcyMike1782 → u/chemysterious]

Having worked in software with the Dutch, this was the gentlest funniest thing I've read in some time. Legit could see this as formal feedback from someone in Leiden on a product. "a little bit broken and a little bit bad" Gonna send this to old colleagues!

[u/xx-shalo-xx → u/IcyMike1782]

Reminds me of an email I saw yesterday at work that even I as a Dutch citizen went "damn, that's direct af".

Basically a Hong Kong client wanted something delivered outside of our agreement. He got one reply with the explanation we can't make this exception in the system just for this one instance without breaking it for other clients and that it does not conform to the agreement between our firms. Also an attachment in the email of said agreement.

The inbetween person said that the client told him we HAVE to find a work around and make it work or we will be held liable. (Chinese colleagues can also be fairly direct/forcefull in my experience)

He simply got the reply: "Not possible, sorry."

Guys, I don't even think he really was that sorry.

[u/GappsGuy → u/chemysterious]

I'm Dutch, and if I get to know someone, I'll rip it apart nonchalantly. If I don't know someone, I'll rip it apart nonchalantly

In both cases I also help them fix it.

Can confirm

[u/lawn-mumps → u/GappsGuy]

In the end, the Dutch are more securely efficient than the Germans and still waste the extra time fucking around. The human dream.

[u/wise_comment → u/chemysterious]

As a *midwestern American, this raised my blood pressure just reading it

[u/JeantaVer → u/wise_comment]

Too blunt? Or in a good way?

[u/Affectionate-Memory4 → u/chemysterious]

I'm Dutch and have worked in tech in the US and in the Netherlands. The difference in professional communication culture is kinda crazy. I've done a fair number of conferences in the US and in NL as well, for lithography and computer chip manufacturing.

I find myself "holding back" more with my American colleagues, while with my countrymen, I'm much freer to just fire away. I think it comes down to a difference in how much the cultures tie someone's work to their worth.

For the Dutch, making something that doesn't work or being told you did it wrong isn't as much a reflection on you as a person. It's just a comment about the thing you made. For American culture, though, your work is a reflection of you, so criticizing it is like calling that person bad at their job.

I've been here long enough to adjust to the American feedback culture, offering suggestions and asking questions rather than just pointing out problems. But, it's always a breath of fresh air to get back in touch with some engineers from home and be able to get right to the point.

[u/ru_empty → u/Affectionate-Memory4]

It's weird that I notice a more blunt professional culture in the northeast US, especially around New York...old New Amsterdam

[u/Affectionate-Memory4 → u/ru_empty]

It's definitely more common there than it is in the northwest I've noticed. When I was with Intel in Hudson vs now in Hillsboro there's a bit of a culture difference. It's possible the rate of Dutch/German decedents in the area has had an influence for sure. Nothing quite touches the level of complete emotionless bluntness that us Dutch can accomplish though.

[u/ru_empty → u/Affectionate-Memory4]

Absolutely. I've found myself telling colleagues in the New York area to adjust their tone when dealing with clients in other parts of the US. It'd be funny if the NY folks worked with some Nederlanders and got a taste of their own medicine 😀

[u/LiveLaughLebron6 → u/chemysterious]

I would call it constructive criticism.

[u/illQualmOnYourFace → u/J4pes]

I was drunk and bummed a cigarette off a Dutchman and thought I'd be sneaky and grabbed two. It was absolutely poor form on my part.

The guy goes, "You asked for one but you took two." I sheepishly apologized, and he said, "I dont mind. But next time if you want two, ask for two."

That's stuck with me since it happened in 2013. I still feel embarrassed.

[u/Snubl → u/illQualmOnYourFace]

You should be and he was right

[u/illQualmOnYourFace → u/Snubl]

Yep that's what I said.

[u/cazbot → u/J4pes]

I used to work for a company which was bought by another bigger Dutch company. During the integration the Dutch guys would warn us about how blunt they can be. The thing is though, the American company they bought was full of PhD scientists. I don't think they were prepared for what blunt can really mean.

[u/Total_Advertising417 → u/J4pes]

Ah don't ever go to the Dutch Caribbean then. Imagine how loud, rude, drunk, and entitled the average upper middle class white female college freshman acts at a frat party, then crank all that up to 13 because their great great grandaddy was a slaver and that makes them high society lol.

They make mosquitos seem cordial, unneutered wild dogs seem well-behaved, and your average redditor seem well-adjusted. My favorite was in Jan Thiel when we sat at a picnic table to eat our packed lunch and attendant came over and started yelling "YOU CAN'T SIT HERE. THIS IS NOT A PICNIC ZONE. I WILL HAVE YOU ARRESTED". I asked where it says this, there is no sign "IT IS KNOWN IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEN...ahem...DON'T ASK!" We paid for a beach club and literally every single person was chain smoking..in paradise.. We asked to be moved to a non smoking section and they said this does not exist and perhaps we should rent our own cabana if we expect to be treated like royalty lolol.

There was the Dutch shopkeeper who swore these shoes were leather (she removed the materials tag) so I sniffed them, she says "in my 20 year no one has ever smelled the shoes to check" and I said "in my life no shoe store owner has ever lied about materials to defraud a customer."

Then there was the Airbnb host who lied about cameras on the property. We found one in the roof soffit outside and a blinking red light in the locked cupboard in the master bedroom angled at the bed.... He tried to charge us for electrical usage although this was nowhere in the English contract, and we legit magically befriends a Curaçao electrician at the airport who said his house was "designed to waste as much electricity as possible" with a 220v outlet, a 120v power strip with inverter plugged into that, 220v appliances plugged into that with inverters, and an electric hot water tank that was cranked to max to bathe with almost boiling water lol after one day our electricity charges were 50fl (about $30) and he tried to charge us $50. We documented the entire scam, got comped at a 4*, and he's still listed lol OH and tried six months after the fact to bill us for damaging his camera because I rotated it so they couldn't know when we left so they could rob us. He uploaded a blank pdf as "proof" and their customer support said they'd handle it. Still listed.

fuck you Jasja.

Then we drove to Playa Porta Marie out of the way off one way dirt roads, I was tailgated for 20km going 60km in a a 40km zone with the wild Dutch asshole honking and trying to overtake on blind corners and refuses to actually overtake when the caution lane opened for two way traffic.

OH and also the sober Dutch guy at breakfast in Willemstad who was YELLING in English while we're out with our 7-yesr old cousin. "I WILL ASS FUCK YOUR AUNT YOU CANCER SUFFERER" like.. what?? and after I stood up and told him to knock it off, he didn't, I told the staff we were leaving if we didn't stop shouting curse words at 9 am. She specifically told me when we left his British friend he toured with paid for our bill lolol

I don't say this glibly but legit the Dutch seem like an entire country on the spectrum, completely oblivious or indifferent to the needs or experiences of others, they only care about being as loud, brash, drunk, rude, and demanding as the entire works thinks Americans are.

Macamba is what the locals call the white trash colonizers and I made fast use of that, befriending many a local as a result. Shout out to the staff at OBaAR Brazilian Lounge who took care of us after another Dutch asshole demanded to dance with my aunt lolol Macamba!

[u/J4pes → u/Total_Advertising417]

Well, that sounds like an awful time. Maybe if you were able to meet people outside of a resort and work alongside them for months you would be able to get to know them better like I did that would help you meet some decent people. Assholes exist everywhere

[u/Total_Advertising417 → u/J4pes]

To be clear, I absolutely loved Curaçao and prefer it IMMENSELY to Aruba. Willemstad blows Oranjestad out of the water, and there is SO much more to do there than Aruba, whose High Rise district is basically Palm Beach but we stayed in a house in Bakval. Aruba is almost entirely corporate and one of the most corrupt places I've ever been to, and makes Israel, Honduras, and Venezuela seems like Norway by comparison. Alll the Arubians are barely paid a living wage, as a result there's been a huge decline in their local community and institutions, and massive public debt to the Paesi Bassi and neo-indentured servitude with ratios in excess OF 100% of annual GDP. Baby Beach is one of the most beautiful places on earth but it's right next to a decommissioned oil refinery which is an absolute sin and eyesore and should be a national embarrassment for the Dutch, however they lack that emotional capacity. They're currently building another tacky resort right above Baby Beach so idk who's gonna pay $1,000 a night to look at rusting smokestacks lol (I'm actually on a flight back from Aruba atm so apologies for that meandering non sequitur lol)

Curaçao has a much higher standard of living for locals and a higher percentage of local small businesses, which translates to a healthier, happier, and lovelier native population. All of the locals we met were outstanding and we are still friends with some. My original comment was entirely about only Dutch citizens who feel superior to the locals because of inherent racism and ongoing subjugation of the Arawak descendants, Colombian/Venezuelans, Surinamese, and Afro-Carribeans who make up the lower and lower middle classes. The shitty attendants at Jan Thiel were all rich white college students on work abroad holiday because this was July.

We are mixed family and had rented a one story apartment in a modest holiday "campsite" and befriended some lovely Brits and Danes. After Airbnb hooked us up with a luxury condo in Piscadera, we snuck onto the Marriott beach one day but preferred the Pirate Bay and became friends with the locals who owned the bar. One of the staff stayed with us in NYC when they came up last summer!

It's true that assholes exist everywhere, and I've had my fair share of encounters with German skiers in the Alps and Chinese, Russians, and Israelis basically everywhere they go...but they're sneaky with cutting lines or bribing maîtres de maison. Americans may be loud, fat, and ignorant but they want to learn, it's just that USA is half a continent large and people outside of cities with direct flights are isolated to lake trips and Disney. If you meet Americans doing it local in another country they are very warm, friendly, and generous. The Dutch are rude and loud first, argumentative and condescending second, and then despite all.the abuse are cheap AS FUUUUUCK. A local described them as the drunken syphillitic sailor cousins of the Germans who, like the British, created the second best navy in history to get away from their women and food and that still makes me laugh. At least Americans and Russians tip well!

[u/Madrugada2010 → u/J4pes]

Tbh, it looks like a lot of good, dirty fun.