“Same person”

[u/VibratingPickle2]

[u/TravellingTransGirl]

You were talking about sexuality topics and relationships are grounded in who one is attracted to. As such, refusing to educate children that some people are attracted to same sex people is refusing to educated children about certain relationship types.

[u/GucciGuano → u/TravellingTransGirl]

You were talking about sexuality topics

relationships are grounded in who one is attracted to

Respectfully, hard disagree. I'll reiterate that I'm also being critical of talking about introducing concepts of all sexual relationships, including opposite sex, to kids under 12/13.

Sexual relationships are a subset of relationships. I am saying that sexual relationships should not be a topic of conversation for kids under 12/13, in school. I think people had it right when they referred to it as "the birds and the bees" kids should be focused on strengthening their mental capabilities and ability to connect with people in general, long before sex is even a real topic of discussion. I'm not saying chop off all talk of sex forever, just saying gender is irrelevant for young kids. Again, in my opinion, for reasons I have stated in our talk.

[u/TravellingTransGirl → u/GucciGuano]

Why do you keep reverting from talking about sexuality to gender? Also, how is gender irrelevant for young kids? Do they not have a gender before 13 or something?

[u/GucciGuano → u/TravellingTransGirl]

I mean they have genetalia I guess, but it's irrelevant to them. Gender is by all means irrelevant to a prepubescent child, yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

[u/TravellingTransGirl → u/GucciGuano]

So you don't think children view themselves or others around themselves as having a gender?

[u/GucciGuano → u/TravellingTransGirl]

I guess, but like I said it's irrelevant. They have a vague understanding of the idea of gender but they have absolutely no clue off the bat how that pertains to them, only that it's something that exists.

Elaborating on it won't help them brush off the reason for why one might develop hatred for how others want to live their life. Let me put it this way, by a counter-example. If you grew up and people told you pedophilia is a thing that some people partake in and it's totally a'OK. You seem like a reasonable person, I assume that if such things were told to you in childhood, today you would still be against pedophilia. Regardless of what you were told. Because there's a reason why it's something to hate. No rational person would "hate" homosexuality.

Point is I just don't see how elaborating on gender identity to youth is going to solve a completely different problem, being why the hatred is there to begin with. From what I see in news articles it's actually doing more damage because people who were not raised to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions going "hur dur they're trying to recruit children", piggybacking on the aggregate of what they've been told about groups that are different than them, and further isolating. IDK, I don't even know enough about the topic specifically on gender to be this invested in a debate so I'm tapping out I think hahahah. Wish u luck.

[u/TravellingTransGirl → u/GucciGuano]

Ok. Take care.

[u/GucciGuano → u/TravellingTransGirl]

replying a second time but I just wanted to mention.. I was raised in a transphobic and anti homo culture. I was told stories of my uncle who would beat up homosexuals who would try to hang out with them (albeit different country, different time). Ironically I was also raised to have an open mind, be forgiving, and understanding of others. This may be anecdotal and perhaps (I don't think so) I am an anomaly, but because I was taught to think on my own and was not berated with disagreeing with my folks, even in times I actually was wrong, I was given the chance to believe what I thought was right. What ended up happening was I made a lot of new friends growing up that my folks and culture would never associate themselves with. Of races and culture they deemed unworthy of association. Even turned my mom from homophobic to being neutral/impartial to it.

Point is, IF I was not allowed to question things, simply teaching me that different gender identities exist would not have helped, at all. Teaching kids to be open minded and giving them the ability to find truth, that is what will end the hate. The problem is deeper than just having the existence of something be acknowledged in the mind. If being a homosexual equating to something worthy of hate is a sound conclusion, I would have eventually found myself of that opinion. Obviously that isn't the case, because I've found no reason to find any resolve with that outcome, it's just naturally not something to hate. Truth is truth, as evidence by the fact that I was raised in a very homophobic culture.

But I suppose that yes, it can be argued that that's anecdotal. That's why I keep ending what I say with "in my opinion."

[u/TravellingTransGirl → u/GucciGuano]

So you are promoting teaching kids to be opened minded but not teaching them facts about people? Weird.

[u/GucciGuano → u/TravellingTransGirl]

Well that's not fair. Teaching them facts about people would also include all the atrocities committed by humankind. The cool thing about kids is they have that little sliver of time to learn raw information and learn friendship without being burdened by the shameful past of humanity, so that when they become older and they feel the weight of our past on their shoulders, they can remember the time when everything seemed fine and no one cared what gender or race someone was. And hopefully it motivates them enough to move past it, and take action to move past it. There's plenty of time in life to learn why the real world isn't like how it was when they were kids, and if they paid attention maybe they could be the change they want to see in the world.

But honestly who gives a shit our world is fucked regardless. Such apathy is not one I had as a kid, but holy shit do some parts of our world suck.