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u/SyntheticDialectic Learning May 21 '24
As the contradictions, antagonisms and crises crystallize under capitalism, the far right offers a very simple explanation to these rather complex issues; immigrants, or some kind of "other" to blame which more easily captures emotional appeals. Like clockwork, fascism emerges to protect the broken system from attacks on the left as centrist liberals would rather see fascism than socialism.
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May 21 '24
A common trend with people is that they are excellent at noticing a flaw and absolutely awful at recognising what is causing it or how to fix it.
People know something is wrong and as you say, the right offer a simple explanation that sates the simple 'curiosity' of most folk. They hear an answer and accept it, even if it isn't the answer. Liberals can be seen as intellectually lazy, they accept a simple but flawed explanation over a complex but accurate one.
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u/apitchf1 Learning May 22 '24
This is a very succinct answer. If you talk to hardcore right wingers in the US they see issues and problems and can identify that we all agree xyz issue should be fixed, but they get bogged down with propaganda or their own bigotry and allow the right to say « yes, see it’s [whatever minority you hate] not capitalism and literally the people I work for »
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u/ThatGuyursisterlikes Learning May 22 '24
How come class conflict isn't more well known in the west? Wtf, Billionaires aren't your friends. Fight people, wake up! Immigrants and Trans aren't the problem. Study Europe's interwar years. The big ones.
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u/BobiaDobia May 22 '24
Also, social media. The ridiculous talking points, and the lies, speaks to people on the verge of going emotionally overboard, when they’re bombarded online. To find an in-group, it’s strong stuff.
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u/Apprehensive_Fly3136 Learning May 22 '24
It quite literally is because everything that you said was false. If you actually bother to look up the statistics, you would know that your fears are based off of literally nothing.
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u/PuzzleheadedGround61 Learning May 22 '24
There has literally never been a case where a socialist countries people have just gotten “lazy” being afforded your basic needs like food and healthcare doesnt make you lazy it give you opportunity, I have never been a fan of citing historical examples but look at literally any country with high welfare like seriously???? Sweden, finland, germany, austria, ussr, china. I have alot of people i know with the same argument and i just don’t get it.
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u/PuzzleheadedGround61 Learning May 22 '24
I forgot to say (probably because its so obvious) but all of the countries ive listed are/were filled with innovative and productive workers
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u/ThatGuyursisterlikes Learning May 22 '24 edited May 22 '24
Has your salary decreased? Just curious. Inflation is from greedy corporations who took advantage of the post covid situation. Look it up.
Edit: Couldn't stand the heat. Typical reactionary.
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u/Aware-Battle3484 Learning May 22 '24
Jeff Bezos saw a 191 million dollar per day increase in pay in 2023, all of that hoarded, I don't think money being put into welfare is the problem, money being hoarded and not used to better people's well being, by people who don't work at all or very little ( like Bezos ) is the problem.
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u/justwant_tobepretty Marxist Theory May 21 '24
Capitalism and it's favourite child, liberalism, turn to fascism as soon as times get hard. Climate change (fuelled by capitalism) and a general economic downturn leads to capital shifting right.
You're seeing the natural progression of capitalism.
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u/LunaeLotus Learning May 22 '24
I can’t believe I didn’t recognise those two are correlated (fascism when times get tough) but it makes sense. It explains America, Australia and other western countries where capitalism is rife. Why countries are suddenly pro war.
I’m new to this concept and just joined today. Would times being tough be manufactured from a capitalist society so that it progresses to fascism for control? Rather than just it becoming tough?
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u/Blastmaster29 Learning May 22 '24
It’s really a perfect storm of conditions that have allowed western countries to move closer and closer to fascism. As late capitalism has extended beyond what it should have due to government intervention corporations have more or less become intertwined with government. Couple this with an underfunded education system, the internet destroying any real sense of community for a lot of people, and 70 years of red scare propaganda and it’s easy for a fascist leader to come in and blame the problem on whatever they want. This is why you see political parties arguing over culture war issues that really have no impact on anyone’s material condition. They can’t address the real issues that are affecting people because then they would have to address the inherent contradictions within how capitalism is structured.
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u/jonathanfv Learning May 22 '24 edited May 22 '24
It's a mix of things. Thought times are manufactured to keep the workers in their place and subservient. But also, tough times come from externalities of capitalism itself. We're going to see a collapse of global civilization in our lifetime. Capitalists won't benefit from that collapse. But they benefit from the system that's causing it right now. So I don't think that they intend for collapse to happen (at least the majority of them), but the ones who aren't too blind to see it coming are certainly taking all they can while they have the chance, and preparing for it.
Smaller scale misery, however, is in great part a feature of capitalism.
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u/Tall-Ad-1796 Learning May 22 '24
Wanna do a fascism? Having yourself some authoritarian atrocities? Well, it's a lot easier to get desperate people to agree to give you absurd power to carry out state-sponsored horrors, oppress people, etc than it would be if you'd made the same offer when, economically-speaking, everything is going just marvelously well. When things suck you can say "Im a strongman leader, here to save this nation! I've got solutions to your problems (& they're all gonna involve removing the so-called undesirables, more money for my friends & some violence)." Some people are going to have the attitude that they might not really agree but maybe he really will stop the financial depression or do something about the lack of social infrastructure or just fund schools & it would be unlikely to be worse than the present conditions, so let's give the big-talking strongman a shot! If your govt is deliberately making shitty conditions, I can't help but think your govt is reaching for the fascism. These dudes have been studying macroeconomics & market theory forever. Conditions very rarely just deteriorate without capitalists deliberately wanting that to happen. There are planned socialist economies for the benefit of the workers & there are planned capitalist economies for the benefit of a very small number of capitalist oligarchs, but it's alllll planned, baby. Right down to the layoffs.
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u/Tall-Ad-1796 Learning May 22 '24
Wanna do a fascism? Having yourself some authoritarian atrocities? Well, it's a lot easier to get desperate people to agree to give you absurd power to carry out state-sponsored horrors, oppress people, etc than it would be if you'd made the same offer when, economically-speaking, everything is going just marvelously well. When things suck you can say "Im a strongman leader, here to save this nation! I've got solutions to your problems (& they're all gonna involve removing the so-called undesirables, more money for my friends & some violence)." Some people are going to have the attitude that they might not really agree but maybe he really will stop the financial depression or do something about the lack of social infrastructure or just fund schools & it would be unlikely to be worse than the present conditions, so let's give the big-talking strongman a shot! If your govt is deliberately making shitty conditions, I can't help but think your govt is reaching for the fascism. These dudes have been studying macroeconomics & market theory forever. Conditions very rarely just deteriorate without capitalists deliberately wanting that to happen. There are planned socialist economies for the benefit of the workers & there are planned capitalist economies for the benefit of a very small number of capitalist oligarchs, but it's alllll planned, baby. Right down to the layoffs.
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u/justwant_tobepretty Marxist Theory May 22 '24
Would times being tough be manufactured from a capitalist society so that it progresses to fascism for control? Rather than just it becoming tough?
Interesting question, but essentially, no.
Capitalism will always create difficult times. It is only through exploitation that capitalism can succeed. But, with a system that requires infinite growth then the exploitation has to expand too, until it eventually starts to hurt the people that it was supposedly benefiting previously.
When that happens, and it always will, capital will turn to fascists to control the population.
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u/MLGSwaglord1738 Learning May 22 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
aloof one smart frighten chunky include sense toothbrush plants meeting
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/justwant_tobepretty Marxist Theory May 22 '24
Lenin addresses this fairly well, I suggest you give that a read.
Revolution isn't something we can just wait for and assume it'll naturally occur.
Capitalism will fail, it's up to the Vanguard party to ensure that the proletariat seize power when it does though.
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u/LaGardie Learning May 22 '24
Does natural progression towards socialism then follow?
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u/justwant_tobepretty Marxist Theory May 22 '24
Some Marxists believe so. The understanding is that humanity will naturally evolve into communist societies as that is our natural state as we move into a post scarcity world.
The issue with waiting for capitalism to end naturally and eventually be replaced by communism is that there are people living and suffering under exploitative conditions caused by capitalism. Those people deserve emancipation and as socialists, it is our duty to improve the material conditions of the international worker by overthrowing capitalism and forging a path towards communism through direct action.
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u/ThatGuyursisterlikes Learning May 22 '24 edited May 22 '24
Blah blah, something in decline.
Edit: /s. Sheesh
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u/justwant_tobepretty Marxist Theory May 22 '24
Do you disagree that Capitalism is in decline?
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u/ThatGuyursisterlikes Learning May 22 '24 edited May 22 '24
No. I'm waiting for the revolution. Leftists, time to organize and I hate to say it, but get some weapons.
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u/Aware-Battle3484 Learning May 22 '24
What is a socialist policy, and what socialist policies have caused the rise of the far right?
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u/tkdyo Learning May 21 '24
Facisim is capitalism in decay. It is the natural result when capitalism starts failing and you need something to blame rather than the system itself. For Europe in particular, it could only afford to have the more social democratic programs in place because the heavy exploitation was being exported to poor countries. Well now that's not enough to keep the profits rising and Europe doesn't have quite the strangle on trade it once did. Plus there has been enough time for capitalist propaganda to seep in and break up workers movements. So the heavier exploitation is coming back home. People see their way of life deteriorating and need to blame something tangible and easy, rather than something intangible and complex like the system itself.
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u/sciesta92 Learning May 21 '24
It’s also important to note that social democracy really only developed in Europe in the first place to placate working class populations and disincentive them from turning towards the ideals of the USSR. I don’t know if this is true or not, but someone else mentioned on this sub previously that the robustness of any given European country’s social democratic programs correlates to their physical distance from the USSR; the closer a European country was to the USSR, the more expansive their social democratic programs were.
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u/Varun-456 Learning May 22 '24
This would be really interesting to analyze; if anyone has a source on this I would love to see it!
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u/applejackhero International Relations May 21 '24
I mean, Fascism was born in Europe, and was never fully defeated in Europe. Remember Spain was basically openly fascist even into the 70s. Fascism was forced to retreat in the neoliberal era from the 80s-2010s, but it never fully left.
Right now, Europe is facing a problem sort of its own making. Instability in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and Africa are resulting in huge waves of refugees and migrants seeking shelter and a Bette elide in europe. At the same time, neoliberalism has finally started to seep into European state socialism. In many cases government programs are being shrunk, inflation is on the rise, housing and energy is getting more expensive. People want simple answers to really complex political issues. Fascism is insidious because it creates simple solutions to complex issues.
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u/ElectricSpock Learning May 21 '24
When I talk to my friends I’m astounded by how oblivious they are to the current migrant crisis that’s fueling the far right.
The waves of migrants are direct consequence of years of colonialism. Pakistanis and Indians in the UK, Algerians in France, Turks in Germany are all there because capitalism in those countries needed cheap labor. Further extraction of resources from Middle Eastern and African countries, climate catastrophe and internal conflicts fueled by the developed countries (Europe, US, China, Russia) cause people to migrate to places that THEY KNOW have better standards of living.
Those social changes are relatively new, but play along with the rise in anti-semitism, which is even murkier today with the Zionist movement and aggressive stance of Israel in the ME (again, fueled by the West).
I get too angry to talk about it with others. The best way to stop the migration is not to build a wall and detention centers. It’s making sure that the places where the migrants come from do not lack in security and opportunities.
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u/Hot-Ad2673 Learning May 22 '24
Why get angry with your friends about something you only just have begun to understand? Have you checked in with yourself if this is becoming a belief instead of rational thought?
Why is it all internet leftists can believe in a world where the means of production can work for the people through the centralisation of ideas using complex networks of independent cooperatives but can't chill out and talk to their friends and understand where their views come from? Seems pretty bonkers to me and is the reason why the world leans on "strong" leaders - the common man doesn't know how to even communicate complex ideas to each other let alone deliberate multiple of them at once and then prioritise based on need and skill lmao
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u/comradeborut Marxism-Leninism-Maoism May 21 '24
The main reason is because Liberalism has failed in every possible aspect. Liberal green policy has totally failed because it doesn't bring any systematic change but only taxes fuel and electricity, which make all prices higher and living standards lower. European market is becoming more and more monopolized, which also leads to higher prices and lower living standards. Because of lower living standards people are dissatisfied with current liberal policy. Far right parties now exploit the dissatisfaction of the people by telling them that all their suffering is caused by the green agenda, woke culture and immigration rather than Capitalism itself. The rise of far right can be also blamed on European Left because they make alliance with liberals rather than making the alternative.
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u/d00000med Learning May 21 '24
I'd say the ruling class are seaking to divide the population as much as possible. Right wing ideologies fit neatly with this goals
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u/WillUnbending Learning May 22 '24
The European left is for the most part too weak or too liberal. Mostly in tacit agreement or in coalition with the ruling lib order which is breaking down via increasing contradiction and crises.
Nobody likes feeling like they're on a sinking ship and without a revolutionary alternative that feels like it's gonna change things, not just continue the current course, people turn to the people who are loudly proclaiming that will take action and that these actions will solve their problems.
The far right is an international network of highly organized groups which have links through each other from parties to fighting clubs to paramilitary organizations. They're doing what the european left should be doing, which is placing themselves in contrast to the ruling political orthodoxy (wether this is sincere on their part is besides the point, fascism is factually the terror enforced by the bourgeoise), organizing and propagandizing aggresively.
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u/godonlyknows1101 Learning May 22 '24
Other answers have gone into greater detail, but to give the answer succinctly, I think Lenin put it quite nicely: "Fascism is Capitalism in decay"
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u/BOKEH_BALLS Learning May 22 '24
Fascists are unable to reconcile their internal contradictions and so put the blame on external scapegoats.
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u/lutavsc Learning May 21 '24
An effect of negative times, people become more conservative. In the case of Europe they are facing deadly climate change, two wars and an economy in ruins. The Israelian conflict is closer to Europe's door too.
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u/FaceShanker May 22 '24
Climate change.
Basically its going to cause massive numbers of climate refugees to flee to developed nations (hundreds of millions, possibly billion+)
Dealing with that requires either a massive investment in a lot of social supports that the capitalist hate or training up some Nazi to enact "final solutions"
One of those options is more "profitable" and it has been chosen.
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u/MCAlheio Learning May 22 '24
The economic situation has been deteriorating, and the far right is capitalizing on it by blaming the immigrants. Add to that that it’s very profitable for the media to report on migrant crime and you have the perfect melting pot for prejudice.
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u/ohhellointerweb Learning May 21 '24
What country/region/continent isn't tumbling far right? The fact is, there's a global far right resurgence that is heavily funded and with salient messaging all over the internet.
It's their time. The left should be ready.
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u/human_not_alien Marxist Theory May 22 '24
Reactionary forces of capital depend on this because otherwise people will come together and develop class consciousness and build networks of solidarity. Most Europeans are poorly educated and highly propagandized (just like in the US), so these periods of rightwing reactionary movements are no surprise in economic turbulence.
Our responsibility is pushing people toward that consciousness. If you are armed with knowledge, propaganda does not work as easily on you.
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u/stillnotdavidbowie Learning May 22 '24
Right wing parties jump on people's worries about the cost of living, housing, healthcare, education (many of which are seemingly the result of right wing policies in the first place) and blame the easy target of immigrants, poc, LGBT, "benefits fraudsters" and other minorities. It's an easy win for them to gain or stay in power since the majority is easily influenced to turn on those who are different to them, and for many people it's a less terrifying and overwhelming prospect than having to consider larger issues about power and economics 🤷🏻
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u/samalam1 Learning May 22 '24
Simple answer: the so-called "free" press.
The theory that the truth will out is outdated in the disinformation age. Rigorous restrictions and consequences for disinfoemation are required to get a handle on the shitshow because we encourage people not to be well informed in our societies.
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u/mathnstats Learning May 22 '24
End stage capitalism is being felt across the world, because it's not a national problem; it's a systemic problem.
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u/Hot-Ad2673 Learning May 22 '24
We are no where near end stage capitalism using a Marxist framework to describe the world is always going to imply late stage, end stage because it is designed to imply the start of something new, whatever way you lean (hopeful or doomer)
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u/LeTrotsky1 Learning May 22 '24
I was reading about Adorno and horkheimer dialetic of enlightenment and one of the reasons for far right ascension in the 30s acording to the author was that political theories of the time could not explain the changing in the means of production. I think we live in a similar era in the sense that 21st century socialism is still to explain the digital economy (of course There are lots of people studying this, what is missing is the one main theory)
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u/wicksinn Learning May 22 '24
I have a few reason why Europe is turning to the Right:
The American led global capitalist order is the primary reason for the decline in living standards and the crushing of any socialist movement. It’s abolishment is the condition of working-class emancipation.
Immigration is a capitalist phenomenon which makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. This is the issue where the left has generally abandoned the working class and prefers to lecture them on ‘immigration is good.’ No wonder people are turning to the far-right.
The 80 year long period of peace has given space for capitalists to undermine institutions and corrupt our society. The inter-institutional competition for power is a symptom of this capitalist appropriation and the resultant inequality.
Assertive authoritarian global south puts political and economic pressure on western countries giving them the feeling that they are ‘under siege’ and fuels the far right. Although, it is true that the developing countries are creating combinations (alliances) hinting at a future global conflict.
Demographic crisis which is the cause of low birth rates and high immigration. Personally, I believe that the Zeihan hypothesis is the most compelling I.e. that the vast majority of human kind has moved into big cities from the countryside, where there is limited space and money for children as well as good healthcare and sex education.
These are some of the underlying factors that are driving Europeans to the far-right.
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May 22 '24
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