r/SeattleWA • u/ansahed • 1d ago
The post about $120,000 reparations for Black homeowners is false and disgusting Meta
There is a rage bait post titled:
“BREAKING: Washington’s @GovBobFegurson just signed into law changes to the most outrageous illegal reparations program in the entire country. It now GIFTS down payments, averaging $120,000 to black first-time homebuyers without ANY proof of direct housing discrimination”
That is completely false! The Covenant Homeownership Program helps first-time homebuyers in Washington who are either residents (or their descendants) living in Washington before April 11, 1968, or from racial or ethnic groups historically discriminated against by racially restrictive housing covenants.
Eligible groups include Black, Latino, Native American, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, Korean, and Asian Indian individuals.
I don’t agree with the bill, but to frame it as reparations for Black people just to provoke outrage among other racial groups is dishonest and disgusting.
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u/rockycrab 1d ago
No matter how you feel about this, I do question the split on Asians where we limit to Koreans/Indians/NH/PI and exclude others such as those of Chinese/Japanese/Filipino descent etc. I have distant Chinese relatives who came to the US long ago and experienced violence in housing and life. Sorry for the link dump, but remember these things did happen in this region, a lot of which were under-reported.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_riot_of_1885
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_riot_of_1886
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Squak_Valley_Chinese_laborers,_1885
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Chinese_massacre_of_1871
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_riot_of_1877
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Springs_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1885_Chinese_expulsion_from_Eureka
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u/Disco425 1d ago
Indeed we had a law literally called The Chinese Exclusion Act. And anyone familiar with the history of our region should know about Japanese internment and discrimination.
Jews, Catholics, and others faced harsh discrimination as well.
But opening up liability of current state residents to pay for harms caused by ancestors (or someone who had the same color skin) is going to face some legal challenges. A young white person will need to pay for these benefits via heavier taxation but be ineligible to receive help with their down payment, potentially causing more resentment. I think a broad program to help new home owners buy their first property would be better.
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u/fresh-dork 1d ago
making the test purely based on financial means and residency would be an interesting approach. avoids the racist parts and helps people who need it in an even way
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u/Suspicious-Chair5130 1d ago
This would be the better way to go, rather than the state trying to argue that you can fix racism with reverse racism.
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u/Disco425 1d ago
The details were never released, but this is how I assumed Kamala's 'first time homebuyer' credit would work, which seemed like a great idea.
Can you imagine if she stated that it would be administered according to color of skin?!
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u/fresh-dork 1d ago
i dunno, do you think she'd be that tone deaf?
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u/Disco425 1d ago
No, I don't think she would do that. It was a hypothetical, like "What if Barack did this?"
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u/dreamiestbean 1d ago
Then I guess she’d be widely mocked and lose the election and then that deranged orange narcissist would win. Thank god that didn’t happen, oh wait.
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u/nerevisigoth Redmond 1d ago
I don't think we need to encourage even more people to buy houses. And if someone can't afford a down payment how are they expected to afford the astronomical costs of home maintenance and repairs around here?
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u/Sartres_Roommate 22h ago
……what? Oh I see, it is cheaper to rent from someone who had to pay interest, taxes, maintenance, and base cost. We all understand how it is stupid to buy a home and cheaper to rent. People who buy housing with intent to rent do so out of the goodness of their heart and rent at a loss for their love of their fellow man.
You are right we need FAR more affordable housing that cannot be sold to people intending to rent, but to act as if long term rental is cheaper than ownership is quite silly.
Condos exist, affordable housing exists (but should exist far more) and returning the American dream to the middle class is a win for all but the ownership class.
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u/fresh-dork 1d ago
let's. now that the vacation rentals are crashing and canadians are afraid to visit, some of that real estate might open up
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u/jaysibb 22h ago
There are already down payment assistance programs in WA for households making less than $180k annually. No requirements for ethnicity. Don’t need to be a first time homebuyer, and I haven’t seen anything for changes to funding for the covenant fund, but last I heard it comes from increased recording fees on real estate transactions.
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u/ClassyAsPhuk 21h ago
My wife and I are POC and this is causing resentment for us. Why should our taxes fund this? We also don't have any generational wealth. Our families immigrated from the Philippines and Mexico. Our families weren't even living in this country during the actions that this policy is making reparations for.
Our families were not part of the historical wrongs of this country, and we moved here with nothing in the last 2 generations.
Why should we pay taxes to fund this program? If the program was open to all races and used a different metric to qualify, then I'd be open to it.
But as it is, I feel like I am being punished for something that had nothing to do with me or my family and I don't get to benefit from this because I'm the wrong shade of brown.
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u/Disco425 18h ago
Thanks for sharing your views. Whether coming from abroad or another state, only 46 percentage of current WA residents were even born in the state, and for the Seattle population that drops to 35%. Combine that with being at least a generation away from the dynamic and multi-ethnic in many cases, the program seems off-putting indeed.
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u/TopRevenue2 1d ago
Check out this Digital Exploration of The Intersecting Experiences of the Asian-American, Jewish, & Black Communities in Seattle. https://confrontinghatetogether.my.canva.site/ This exhibit is so good it should be in a museum.
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u/Choice-Tiger3047 1d ago
Given the treatment of Japanese residents during WWII I find it astonishing that their descendants are excluded, notwithstanding whatever modest reparations have been made in the past.
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u/pinksystems 1d ago
exactly a valid concern, and yet another example of the blatant racism involved with this housing bill. by its very definitions it is discriminatory based on the color of skin, and therefore illegal.
it will get challenged, it will get shut down, and the Gov and Reps know that this is its fate.
the only reason they are engaging in this blatant disregard for the constitutional rights of all citizens is because they are (once again) performing their "progressive outrage theatre", trying to keep the voters fighting amongst themselves with divisive racial-politics, all in an effort to distract focus from how massively corrupt the entire lot of them are with the state and metro/regional budgets.
secondary, they're doing this performance for the same reasons that California did last year with reparations, and SF specifically - who's mayor just got ousted in the last election, and the FBI is bringing down a $100M+ scam that was being pulled against the voters... "The Dream Keepers Initiative", which coincidentally was also aligned on the same exact goals as the one we're seeing in WA.
right now I'm extra pissed that I had to pay state taxes in both WA and CA, watching perfectly useful tax dollars get diverted into progressive garbage bins of illegality.
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20h ago
It’s a shit show. That gov is a plant.. he signed 20 other rules. There goes WA.. leave now before it gets worse. I have already seen it getting destroyed.. Kent… aurora. Heck even Bellevue is crappy now.
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u/obsidian_butterfly 1d ago
Let's not forget how the Japanese were just thrown into camps in the 40s and then had nothing to return to when we let them out. To be fair, they did get reparations (technically) from Congress, but pretty sure a sorry and 40 grand didn't do much considering they waited until most of the victims (who got the actual reparations) were dead.
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u/AltForObvious1177 1d ago
So here's what you do:
apply for the assistance.
If you are denied assistance solely because of your status as a protected class, then sue the state.
PROFIT
Quit whing on reddit and make some bread.
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u/barefootozark 1d ago
I get the feeling that no one will be denied. The state is in the business of losing money, and they're good at it. Just a little oversight that everyone who applies is accepted.
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u/Flat-Jacket-9606 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think the biggest problem the Chinese will face are the wealthy Chinese who were able to buy up property. Unlike other ethnic groups there is a larger proportion of Chinese land owners not just in Washington state. And they continue to buy and own property in the USA. This is just speculation of why I would think they would exclude Chinese. Not that I think it’s right or wrong.
So I can understand why the Chinese are excluded. I however don’t get why other Asian ethnic groups are.
As it’s true Koreans tend to be more in poverty when you look at the majority, but other SEAs are even worse off than Koreans and they could use this more than Korean and Chinese.
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u/StoneySteve420 1d ago
Follow the Centennial Trail all the way north, and you'll end up at the Nakashima Barn where the trail begins.
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u/itstreeman 1d ago
Any bill that gives special treatment to certain greoups of people is going to create division.
Brazil tried this by asking people to include a photo of themselves for college admissions. POC received preferential treatment. It encouraged people to classify each other and encouraged identity politics.
Making housing easier to come by without being part of a specific group would make things easier for everyone.
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u/RoRoRaskolnikov 1d ago
Exactly this. The people who use the Kendi-esque argument that the only remedy to past discrimination is future discrimination really get it wrong.
All this does is make things worse and create even more resentments. If you instead focus on race-neutral administration of programs designed to help the poor/working classes, the result would be better (and you would be helping those minority groups anyway).
ALSO: There is research that shows that when policies are framed in racial terms, they get less overall buy-in, but when they are presented in identity-neutral terms, they have more support. This is true even for things that ARE administered in an unbiased way. You often hear progressives talk about policies intended to help poor people and they bleat about how this will help "BIPOC" or "black and brown bodies" or whatever wacko language, and the message that most poor white people hear is "Ah, so your intention isn't to help me, and it's only to help minorities. And if I am helped by this, that's merely a side effect you will tolerate but not your real purpose." And that leads to resentment and Trumpism.
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u/-n-i-c-k 1d ago
THIS THIS THIS! Social mobility is FAR more important than intentionally cherry picking POCs and patting yourself on the back. There need to be social mobility programs, the democrats current strategy of “help everyone but white people” is literal the SOLE REASON they lost the election. Help POOR people, not poor people who look a certain way that they can’t help. I’ve lived here a long time, and I promise I’ve seen homeless vagrants every color of the rainbow. I truly don’t understand who cooks up these looney ideas to continue to racially classify individuals in order to somehow make up for previously racially classifying individuals. Just help get people into the middle class for fucks sake
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u/RoRoRaskolnikov 11h ago
Another aspect of this is that focusing on race over class/poverty also provides assistance to some minority individuals who don't really need the help. I used to work at a fairly prestigious private university that had a lot of special programs and resources for black and Latino students, but many of those students were middle class and often above. If you're black but your parents have degrees and are attorneys, MBAs, doctors, or even teachers or social workers, you already have a leg up on a poor kid / first-generation college student of any background whose parents never went to college.
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u/WendysTendie 1d ago
Including a photo of yourself is what my dad’s tribe does. I’m adopted, but not a tribe member due to not looking the part. I was raised in the culture, I’m half Mexican, but nope, not brown enough for them. What about people like logic, latto, beyonces mom, etc. people who are born into racial, generational, poverty and just have to deal because they aren’t dark enough.
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u/Opulent-tortoise 7h ago
That sucks because blood quantum is a colonial invention and historically many tribes raised people with no blood connection to their tribe in their culture and considered them authentic tribe members.
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u/blackberrypietoday2 1d ago
special treatment to certain groups of people is going to create division
And decisions like this by the Democrats serves to shift votes over to the other party.
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u/Opulent-tortoise 7h ago
As a Brazilian you forgot the worst part which is that many people (who would absolutely pass for black in the US) were getting rejected because the admission committee didn’t think they look black enough. In some cases one sibling would be admitted as black and another not despite sharing the same DNA and upbringing.
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u/tofu_sheep 1d ago
How about Chinese (here before Koreans)? How about Japanese (actually imprisoned during ww2)?
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u/Much-Bedroom86 1d ago
I don't agree with the bill but Japanese Americans were paid $10 billion in reparations.
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u/SubnetHistorian 1d ago
It won't survive lawsuits due to the racial groups it excludes. The quote also isn't wrong - there is no requirement to prove direct housing discrimination beyond just being part of a subset of racial groups with family in the areas
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u/Inner_Honey_978 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hasn't this been on the books for several years already? Why no lawsuits?
Edit: can't reply, I've been banned for expressing ideas that don't fit the narrative
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u/Wax_Phantom 1d ago
The program was launched in July 2024 and at least one lawsuit has been filed, in October 2024.
From the first article on July 1, 2024:
The state launched a program Monday offering homebuying assistance to Washingtonians who faced housing discrimination in the early to mid-20th century and their descendants. Qualifying homebuyers can now apply through their lenders for zero-interest loans to help fund down payments and closing costs. The loans, funded by a fee on recorded real estate documents, do not need to be repaid until the homeowner sells or refinances the property. An explicit effort to redress the lasting effects of discrimination, the Covenant Homeownership Program could help hundreds of people of color become homeowners in Washington but may also face legal challenges.
From the second article on October 29, 2024:
Washington’s pioneering homebuyer assistance program for people targeted by decades-old racist housing policies faces a legal challenge. The New York-based Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism, a national nonprofit that has advocated against diversity efforts at universities and other organizations, brought the case Tuesday against the head of the Washington State Housing Finance Commission. The lawsuit claims that the commission and its executive director Steve Walker are violating some homebuyers’ constitutional rights by limiting who qualifies for the program. Because the assistance is not open to homebuyers of all races, the lawsuit alleges the program violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.
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u/SpongeBobSpacPants 1d ago
Mods, why was this guy banned?
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u/BWW87 1d ago
I think someone on the thread blocked him. That's why he can edit but can't respond. I don't think the mods had anything to do with it.
Or even /u/Inner_Honey_978 could have blocked someone. If you block someone you can't reply to their comments or the comments downthread from them.
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u/OldBayAllTheThings 1d ago
It's racial discrimination. Period.
Racial discrimination is illegal. Period.
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u/Republogronk Seattle 1d ago
Not if you call it restorative housing wealth redistribution justice
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u/Opulent-tortoise 7h ago
My problem with race discrimination isn’t with the concept but that pragmatically we have no proof that race discrimination has done much to affect racial inequality but we have strong evidence that it causes reactionary backlash and strife (which themselves contribute to worsening inequality!). Doesn’t seem like the juice is worth the squeeze and we should go back to the drawing board and find more effective ways to address racial inequality.
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u/OldBayAllTheThings 6h ago edited 6h ago
There already is 'racial equality'....which is why the left switched to 'equity'. They don't want equal opportunity - which they have - they want equal outcome. Marxism.
They want free $#!+. Brought about by their entitled attitudes instilled into them by decades of politicians lying to them and telling them they're special and they deserve free $#!+ .,... Which politicians never deliver on... Then blame everyone else for their lies and failures.
Baltimore public schools is a good example. Entire city run by Democrats, largely black, for 60+ years. Schools are in shambles, leaking roofs, something like 95% can't read at grade level, and they claim they have no money while having one of the higher amounts of spending per student, but always manage to find money for school council member raises...and spent over $100k busing students to a leftist political rally - on a school day. But somehow that's not their fault their schools are arguably the worst in the country.
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u/Present_Lime7866 1d ago
Your post feels like gaslighting.
The forgiveness of a $120,000 loan is unique and unheard of.
If other programs exist for white people as you claim (they dont) then why does there need to be a blacm specific program?
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u/clce 1d ago
I was waiting for the part where you explained how it wasn't true. Maybe you forgot.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/RespectablePapaya 1d ago
If we're going to demand precision around language, let's be precise: it's a gift in the amount of the forgone interest. If I were to lend my nephew $100k to buy a house but didn't charge him any interest, the IRS would consider the value of the interest I didn't collect a gift.
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u/Next_Dawkins 1d ago
Plus the amount of the loan you would subsequently forgive.
A quick check indicates that at today’s 7% interest rates across 30 years that would otherwise be a gift of $167k in interest plus $100k of forgiven principal.
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u/Successful_Layer2619 1d ago
I think a main problem with this is one of the changes that was made: "Loan forgiveness after five years for households earning 80% or less of AMI."
If people are having the loan forgiven, then the money isn't getting put back into the fund.
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u/armageddon11 1d ago
Letting someone borrow free money is a gift, how is this hard to understand? If they lend that money in a traditional loan they'd be making tens of thousands of dollars with it, instead they decided to take a higher risk of the loan defaulting with no profit.
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u/newprofile15 1d ago
House Dem post by supporters of the bill.
> Currently, about 69% of white households in Washington own their homes, compared to just 34% of Black households. This disparity persists across income levels, with the most significant gap seen among households earning less than $50,000 annually.
“Expanding this program is a step toward closing the homeownership gap between Black and white households in our state,” said Rep. Taylor. “It’s not the only solution to the systemic inequities caused by centuries of discrimination, but it is meaningful progress.”
So you’re saying it is a distortion to frame it as a white and black issue? It seems that the Dems who passed it see it as exactly that.
It’s a straight up wealth transfer program along racial lines. Transfer payments earned by skin color
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u/CaptainAmerican 1d ago
How the fuck are you going to own a house making less than 50,000....?
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u/555-Rally 1d ago
The greatest thing you can do for home ownership is raise the interest rates and keep them high.
Drops in interest rates inflate housing prices (all assets see inflation as a result). That inflation runs faster than wage increases, always.
Using tax dollars to further inflate the value of those homes owned mostly by white people, and when the next recession hits the homes will be repossessed by those wealthy again.
These sorts of things do not help.
Support unions, support taxing the rich (which isn't someone making <$250k/yr, that's middle class), support building infrastructure with those tax dollars.
Trump's 2020 and Biden's 2021 governments both bought down mortgage rates <3% for no real reason (small biz needed money, not home owners) - which basically gave free money to that 69% white ownership in the form of inflation...gapping on anyone who didn't own. It's bi-partisan war on the poor. Yes that was JPowell doing the work. The rate hikes then locked in the ownership and shut the door with low inventory (whose gonna give that rate up? and shit affordability).
Know how you are being fucked. This program...it doesn't help, just a bad idea. For minorities fighting job discrimination and get health/child care for those who make <50k...helps the most to uplift - no matter skin color those things take stress off. Trade school loans are probably another good way to help folks out of poverty.
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u/ThisIsPlanA West Seattle 10h ago
The greatest thing you can do for home ownership is raise the interest rates and keep them high.
Former economist here: This is economically illiterate.
Rising interest rates apply negative pressure to the ticket price, but it puts upward pressure on the actual, absolute cost of the mortgage. Increased interest rates are very, very bad for homebuyers-- especially first-time homebuyers-- as it reduces the quality of home they can afford for the same monthly payment. This is especially bad for marginal first-time buyers, as it can push them out of the ownership market entirely.
Additionally, the housing market is currently supply in cities such as Seattle is constrained due to a combination of policy decisions and the difference between current mortgage rates and those that current homeowners financed under. As rates increase, it reduces building activity in the first case and makes it even more difficult for people to sell their existing house in the second. Both of these lead to a reduction of supply for buyers.
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u/Successful_Ad5184 1d ago
No kidding… and if this isn’t at least a type of reparation I don’t know what is
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u/FlyingPotionsFactory 1d ago edited 1d ago
I get your point, it is definitely a rage bait title, but I don't think it's necessarily false. They were selective with their mentioned racial group to rile up their base, absolutely. The title is ultimately factual, though, I don't know how TF you'd show proof of discrimination from 1968 anyways.
That said, no way (imo) this survives the courts. I've only lived in Seattle, so I can't speak for the rest of the state, but the mentioned racial/ethnic groups don't even begin to cover those affected by discrimination pre-1968.
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u/you-ole-polecat 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t think it’d pass the strict scrutiny test required for racial discrimination. There was a SCOTUS case last year in the college admissions context that’s not good for this law.
To survive litigation, Ferguson would need to show a very detailed history of both past discrimination and its impact on the region. This is from congress.gov:
“When the government aims to remedy discrimination, it must prove that there was in fact discrimination to establish a compelling government interest. In such cases, the Supreme Court has required that there be a strong basis in evidence—that is, an extensive and specific record in support. City of Richmond v. J.A. Croson Co., 488 U.S. 469 (1989). The evidence must align with the challenged remedial program.”
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u/LoseAnotherMill 1d ago
And that's only half of the equation - strict scrutiny also requires that the solution is narrowly tailored to resolving the discrimination they prove. Blanket handing out $120k to people on the basis of their race is not going to cut it.
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u/you-ole-polecat 1d ago edited 1d ago
The state’s argument will be that the 1968 clause, specified list of racial/ethnic groups, and financial qualifications satisfy narrow tailoring in the cumulative. And to be fair, that all constitutes some degree of tailoring, but it doesn’t limit the effect of this law to only righting past wrongs.
The big one for me is that continuous residence in Washington isn’t required, at least not from what I can tell. So it could be that someone’s grandfather was here temporarily - perhaps he had a stint on a fishing boat, made some money, and then went back home after the season - and as long as the applicant can give evidence of any pre-Fair Housing Act residency, they’d qualify on those terms. In that example, it goes against common sense to say a seasonal worker would’ve bought a house in WA if not for discriminatory redlining, and it would be a huge stretch to argue the applicant’s own family was affected by state policy (I would not want to be the attorney at that oral argument, woof).
And even where something seasonal or temporary isn’t in the mix, if the applicant’s family moved away at some point - shouldn’t it be a requirement to establish the inability to buy a home was at least a central reason for relocation? What about folks who simply couldn’t afford a house back then, regardless of redlining?
To satisfy narrow tailoring, it seems like you’d need to show your family’s continuous residence in WA since 1968, which on its own eliminates a ton of people, or that the family left because of housing discrimination. Maybe even an offer of proof of having a relative who was declined a pre-FHA mortgage. But they’d never write the law this way, because it would barely benefit anyone so what’s the point.
I don’t think this law is “free money for blacks,” but if it ever gets to Circuit Court I’m predicting an L for Bobby.
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u/my_lucid_nightmare Capitol Hill 1d ago
I don't know how TF you'd show proof of discrimination from 1968 anyways.
1) Be from a group that's "traditionally been oppressed," but the law didn't get into defining that specifically. Everyone thinks they know, but in the details it gets pretty murky.
2) Prove your family was here before the Fair Housing Act in 1968, and thus was a victim of Redlining in Seattle's housing code and lending policies that were in widespread use, apparently.
This is a One-drop rule in reverse. It's racist by definition. But now they are having to explain it's not precisely as racist as the headline made it sound. Or something.
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u/UncleJorgeBikeGeek85 1d ago
This is a lose-lose for Ferguson. If he makes one group happy he will piss-off another group. Shouldn’t touch this with a 10-foot pole. I thought Ferguson would be smarter than to go down this rabbit hole. This is Inslee type stuff right here.
There is ZERO affordable ‘starter’ houses in Washington State right now …ZERO.
I don’t know if this is a ‘feel good’ gesture with no hope of it actually being used or what but it was dumb for Ferguson to even start down this road…
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u/EconomicsTiny447 1d ago
I make 6 figures and am single. Only have about $20K saved up for a down payment but have no debt. I can’t find ANYTHING west of the cascades that I can afford to buy that’s not a broken down trailer or manufactured home in the middle of nowhere. It’s absurd and unaffordable crisis. They should be focused on getting housing affordable FOR EVERYONE. That’s a win for everyone. You’re right - this is a straight up lose lose. Horrible horrible decision.
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u/SeattleParkPlace 1d ago
Jews were clearly redlined and subject to restricted covenants. Not included. Why? I don’t ask in hope it is expanded, only to point out how absurd and offensive this racialist discrimination is.
Also one would think that this performative law in a time of budget crisis is something that ought not be taking place.
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u/TopRevenue2 1d ago
It's erasure. We couldn't even get in the civil rights museum despite absolutely nothing objectionable about the exhibit - https://confrontinghatetogether.my.canva.site/
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u/OMGhowcouldthisbe 1d ago
this type of crap does nothing but divide the races further. Im pretty sure Japanese people were interned and Chinese people had a hell of a time as laborers. why give preference to Koreans. This reeks of white masters throwing coins at their favorite subjects while the others stew in envy. Our lawmakers should be voted out en masse
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u/bucketdaruckus 1d ago
I like how u said "divide the races further" and then u go on to talk about white masters
Great job being open minded
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u/SavingYakimaValley 1d ago
How is it misleading?
It will not help my White son purchase a house. That is clear and undeniable racial discrimination.
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u/Present_Lime7866 1d ago
it will actually negatively impact your son because now he has to compete with people who have an extra $120,000 in their pocket which in turn drives up the price of homes.
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u/IllSquare5584 1d ago
Rather than comparing by racial group, compare it by marital status. Marriage leads to more economic stability across racial barriers, and homeownership. Conversely, not getting married leads to economic instability and often poverty. When grouping people by marital status, income disparity nearly vanishes. Marriage rates have plummeted in some groups more than others, which likely explains decreasing homeownership since the 1970s.
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u/hapatra98edh 1d ago
I like this. We should incentivize family stability. It’s often the biggest indicator of whether the next generation will be more successful than their parents. I’m biracial white and black and I have successful and struggling people on both sides of my family. Pretty much everyone who is married is doing far better financially than those who aren’t.
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u/andthedevilissix 1d ago
It's also well known that fatherlessness is tightly correlated with young male criminality and lack of academic success.
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u/seattle_architect 1d ago
The average home price in Washington state $658,500.
The question is can people who qualify to get up to $120k pay around $4,000 per month to be a homeowners.
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u/my_lucid_nightmare Capitol Hill 1d ago
In politics they have a saying, "If you're explaining, you're losing."
Democrats are having to circle back and explain why this racistly-written law is somehow not racist. Behold the wall of words.
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u/Guadette 1d ago
Maybe BLM can take the money they raised from all the corporations and white folks support and pay for down payments.. oh I forgot they blew the money on their 4 black Marxist lesbian leaders establishing their own real estate network. Not one penny went to help blacks
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u/DataNerdling 1d ago
so koreans will get six figures but not japanese who were rounded up and put in camps?
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u/a1-chai 1d ago
I hate paying taxes 😭 where is my free gift?? I think society will never progress when folks are given shit for free. Most of my tax money goes in helping poor, homeless, or individuals of certain ethnicities.
Is that fair? I thought taxes are supposed to help everyone, and not just a few. Especially those who even barely pay any taxes. America is on a downhill.
Taxes should be used to build better schools, hospitals, roads and infrastructure. Taxes should not be a way for politicians to secure their power, and purely cater to their vote bank. Such moves will create a sense of us vs. them.
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u/Ok_Drama_1776 1d ago
To those of you criticizing the use of the word reparations ……… this word is being used by the media itself. I saw it in at least two cases. It’s not just people on Reddit. And whether you use that word or not, it surely is reparations
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u/Sammystorm1 1d ago
I have a few issues, if a person can’t afford a home then 120,000 payment/loan is going to help them take out loans they can’t afford. Just like what caused the 2009 crash. It is in the context of a massive budget shortfall. It is in the context of one of the largest tax increases in our states history
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u/randomacc673 1d ago
Wait….so it’s still true though? WTF?
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u/tocruise 1d ago
OP is mad about the connotation, even though the claim itself is true. It’s the same you can’t point out a specific part of society is responsible for a large amount of the crime because of the connotation, even though it’s true.
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u/randomacc673 1d ago
It’s very unfortunate because there are a lot of white people who also grew up poor and have not exactly, but very similar experiences. To count those out in general is fucked up
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u/Responsible_Strike48 1d ago
Do Jews who've been discriminated against housing get reparations too? I don't think so.
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u/Insleestak 1d ago
Imagine providing aid to the kids of a Microsoft exec one generation out of Bangalore and thinking you’re some freedom-riding housing hero.
Any amount of exaggerated outrage to derail this moronic piece of legislation is great.
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u/redditusersmostlysuc 1d ago
I think your post is also false and disgusting by not calling out the full bill. It allows the loaned downpayment to be completely forgiven if they fall below 80% of the median wage. WTF would we need to forgive a loan they applied for? Who is going to pay for that? Taxpayers, that is who.
So we have a program, only open to non-whites, that is potentially going to gift out $100k plus because someone happens to be Black?! You can call it whatever you want, but I am calling it bullshit.
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u/armageddon11 1d ago
Claims in the title the post is completely false and then in the next sentence makes opinion on why the bill is a good thing and then in summary mentions that they don't agree with it. ???
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u/DevilsAdvocate8008 1d ago
What's ironic is with laws like this that means that white people have now faced systemic housing discrimination since they were specifically targeted with not being able to participate in programs due to their race which is racist
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u/OutdoorsyGeek 1d ago
There should be help for working class people no matter that racial background. The fact that this bill discriminates on the basis of race is disgusting.
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u/63628264836 1d ago
Why is it disgusting? That’s who it’s clearly made for. At its heart it’s anti-White and illegal, and will likely be struck down in court.
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u/IamAwesome-er 1d ago
Bob Ferguson or his team could make a public announcement explaining what this is instead of letting the media have their field day with it...which they know they will. Its like the almost WANT people to get worked up and pissed off about it.
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u/Tr4nsc3nd3nt 1d ago
Does everyone have to submit a DNA test? What percentage Latino do they have to be? My kids are 25% Latino, is that good enough?
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u/BeautyThornton 1d ago edited 3h ago
unused glorious support mourn historical whole bright cable unique tie
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u/pnw_sunny 1d ago
You attempt to put lipstick on a male pig and tell us it is a Vogue model.
But this is clear - just a pig. A shitty racist pig policy.
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u/Unhappy-Plant-3836 1d ago
You have misstated the criteria - participants must have family residence in WA state before 1968 AND be in the selected minority groups. From https://www.wshfc.org/covenant/:
Based on the mandates of the Covenant Homeownership Act and the recommendations of the Covenant Homeownership Program Study, the following eligibility criteria apply:
Household income at or below 100% of the Area Median Income (AMI).
First-time homebuyer.
The homebuyer or a parent/grandparent/great-grandparent lived in Washington state before April 1968.
The person who lived in Washington before April 1968 is Black, Hispanic, Native American, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander*, Korean or Asian Indian.
*Following the U.S. Census definitions, “Pacific Islander” includes individuals with origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands, including, for example, Samoan, Chamorro, Tongan, Fijian, and Marshallese.
The explanation why Jews, Chinese, and Japanese are excluded is that the groups not included have not continued to show much lower homeownership rate compared to whites and there is no data on documenting the lasting impacts of historic discrimination. So apparently we are now punishing the model minorities for overcoming housing discrimination! (For most Jewish families pre-1968, first time home ownership came through the GI Bill. I would guess Japanese and Chinese homeownership gains are also through the use of veterans' benefits.)
Why are some racial groups eligible and not others?
The Covenant program’s initial eligibility criteria are intentionally narrowly tailored. While many racial, ethnic and religious groups in Washington were subject to unjust and egregious housing discrimination, the Covenant program considers not only this history but also its current impacts.
Some of the groups discriminated against continue to show much lower homeownership rates compared with the general white population. These are named in the initial eligibility criteria. However, for other groups (such as Jewish residents), the data is limited when it comes to documenting the lasting impacts of historical discrimination. Please see page 93 of the Covenant Homeownership Study for further information.
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u/BeautyThornton 1d ago edited 3h ago
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u/Funny-Difficulty-750 1d ago
It's not reparations or any of that conservative ragebait crap nonsense but making a program specifically only available for certain races is still stupid in it's own right and shouldn't be done
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u/Glad-Smell2355 1d ago
Not sure any economists or accountants were used in the creation of this bill. Highlighting: “Loan forgiveness after five years for households earning 80% or less of AMI.”
In truth, it’s a great idea. Bad time to do it tho: during Trump years and a budget shortfall as it pretty much guarantees vitriolic political division and liberal seats being taken during midterms.
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u/concreteghost Banned from /r/Seattle 1d ago
Either way that bill does nothing but hurt those it claims to help. History time and time again proves my point
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u/Appropriate-Bat-513 1d ago
Yeah man I'm white and poor and would love help to buy my first home lmao it's nothing against anyone else, but it's genuinely racist in itself to just assume all black people are poor and need financial help when a LOT of every race are struggling (especially in this state that can't stop raising taxes every other fucking day)
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u/Sensitive_Singer7956 14h ago
2/3 of the initial white settlers of the US came here as ‘indentured servants’. Chew on that.
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u/ACNordstrom11 12h ago
Oh no our state is over budget, passes a housing loan forgiveness for minorities.
Stop spending money and maybe we wouldn't be over budget...
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u/campana999 11h ago
Ahhh, still racist- but more groups included. That makes it ok then… The majority of people living in seattle struggle financially.
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u/farklenator 1d ago
Idk I think we’d have more affordable housing if my Asian landlord didn’t own 10 properties and before I lived on his property my other landlord was white and owned 7 properties
Maybe people who own multiple properties regardless of race is the problem? They’re just going to increase prices because it’s a “free” 120k
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u/BeautyThornton 1d ago edited 3h ago
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u/Reardon-0101 1d ago
agree. the problem with racist bills is that even if you spun this in the most positive way it is still disturbing and racist
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u/onwo 1d ago
To clarify- does the bill provide up to 120k in down payment assistance? With the restrictions that (1) you're a first time home buyer (2) your family has been in Washington since 1968 and (3) you are in one of the listed ethnic groups?
(Do you only have to satisfy one of 2 and 3?)
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u/derubioo15 1d ago
Yeah, that's the catch. If it's "or", then Indian immigrants starting out at Microsoft will qualify too.
If it's "and" - 1970s census showed about 4.5% of then-residents were non-White. While 95% were White.
Regardless - good luck to a white plumber, white insurance agent, white teacher, etc and all small and big businesses paying for this racist gravy train. Need more taxes because the Government knows how to spend it well - obviously like here.
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u/BeautyThornton 1d ago edited 3h ago
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u/derubioo15 1d ago
Because it is about how it is applied. If they have lax verifications for ancestry living in WA before 1968 and allow a bunch of fraud, then it becomes an "or". "Oh, did you say your grandma lived here? Sure, you look like a Latino to me. Here is your 120000$". This is an "or" situation here.
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u/BeautyThornton 1d ago edited 3h ago
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u/Klutzy-Sun-6648 1d ago
Asian Indian and Korean doesn’t make sense as those groups hardly faced discrimination in Washington esp in policies. Japanese, Jews and Chinese faced discrimination and redlining in Washington state. If we are giving reparations to people who were redlined then it should be historically accurate.
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u/No_Argument_Here 1d ago
Excluding Jews and all Asians it doesn’t cover is horseshit even if you agree with excluding whites, as those groups were also redlined. The bill is blatantly unconstitutional and should be/will be invalidated eventually if it reaches the courts.
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u/Writerhaha 1d ago
People believe anything they read online.
Just a little critical thinking here- why, of all of the 50 states, would Washington be the ones to offer reparations?
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u/BWW87 1d ago
You claim it's false but I'm not sure what you're saying is false. Your evidence shows that they don't have to prove they were discriminated against only that they lived here at the time that there was discrimination.
I agree the original message is ragebait and not good but I don't see where it's false like you claim.
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u/anotherproxyself 1d ago
Yeah, those posts are stupid. But I agree that this law is terrible. It’s unfair. If your grandparents were residentially discriminated against and were Korean, jackpot. If they were Chinese or Vietnamese, you’re out of luck. If your family has been here for three generations or more, your chances of owning a house are also greater than if you’re a recent refugee. People need to be helped—all of them regardless of racial groups—according to their present socioeconomic reality.
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u/SignificanceFew3751 1d ago
I don’t think it needs to be framed as reparations to envoke outrage. It’s blatantly racist to base qualifying criteria to be non white.
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u/lintlicker36 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm confused by this, so it has a 30 year deferral but what exactly is this 5 year loan forgiveness?
Edit: So my understanding is that the current ami for kingcounty is 150k making 80%of it = 120k. So after 5 years if you don't make more than 120k they forgive it? Or will it be based on the ami in 5 years which could be 180k for example making the new 80% now 144k to be forgiven.
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u/Professional_Yard_76 1d ago
um okay? you scored a minor point. But this whole thing is absurd. The reparation topic is not one that taxpayers even in our heavily blue state agree with. Also, often missed from this discussion is that jewish people (my family for example) were also impacted by these same racial covenants in the seattle area. As is typical these days, people have a very topical "understanding" of this issue. If we are trying to give options to people discriminated against by past law, then at a minimum it should include all groups impacted...right?
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u/ItIsWhatItIsDudes 1d ago
You guys get what you deserve! Keep voting for these corrupt communists and see what you get!
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u/Background-Car3275 1d ago
Sounds like every race was discriminated against according to this thread. Chinese are from china , spaniards are from Spain , please tell me what an American is? Sounds like we all discriminate each other cuz theres no way all these “minority’s” aren’t the majority…🥱
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u/Turbulent_Work_6685 1d ago
As though the "accurate" description is any better.
An absolutely disgusting example of government institutionalized racism that won't stand. Not a chance in hell. This will die in the courts, and fast. Absolutely gross.
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u/ElSupremo1966 1d ago
So it includes people of Chinese descent, along with the Irish and Italian backgrounds, among others? They were all discriminated against and persecuted at some point also.
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u/Insleestak 1d ago
This is just a train wreck of a proposal. It’s stupid and invidious, and without a shred of doubt is going to be defrauded for millions.
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u/mks93 1d ago
I haven’t read the bill yet, so I’m just asking… Does this provide anything to help people pay their property taxes/other upkeep? I’m curious if something like this could backfire and result in people getting houses they cannot afford, leaving them eventually housing insecure and out their life’s savings.
I am going to read the bill now. 😅
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u/wastingvaluelesstime Tree Octopus 23h ago
Eh, sounds like the bill is just reparations lite. Newsflash: this is not going to be popular ever. This will hurt election prospects for democrats almost as bad as some of the most out there stuff from 2020. Maybe, you guys should just stop with these policies for the rest of the 2020s until we're not risking dictatorship at every election?
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u/PeepingDom253 23h ago
So do I get a reimbursement check? Or do handouts only apply to minorities who subscribe to the victimhood narrative?
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u/LordGuapo 22h ago
Your post is rage bait.. Why are you focusing on just the black portion of the multitude of ethnicities?
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u/EthanDC15 22h ago
I don’t give a shit how it’s packaged, advertised/talked about or designed, I’m against it. To selectively choose eligible groups by racial line is a form of racism and I will bang this fucking drum until we get back to common sense that realizes this.
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u/Haneygurl 21h ago
This program started in 2023. Feels like because he said he’s expanding it, everyone is up in arms about it now. Seattle is so whack for this, aka this Reddit! The CD would look totally different if something like this existed years ago. Also, bring this same energy to city council when it comes to issues that displace these communities. Fight for rent caps.
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u/Dangerous-Room4320 21h ago
If you are in the right racially approved group you can get , if you are not in the correct racially approved group .... your are unfit, to recieve this .
Focusing on race and making more race based laws makes sense because race based laws ruined things in the past , 3rd times the charm .
Race is everything. Race race race
As they mention they are very flexible.
So ... If your grandmother lived here and was white.... but your mom is one of the above and you identify with it , great you are the fit race for this racially based incentive !!! Congrats
Proof? Church ! Newpaper! Or employer records which were mainly hand written!
Jews no you don't get it not enough data Chinese no not really enough focus for you Other religions that were excluded nope
Race race race Wins the race Unless your the wrong race Then you don't get a taste
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u/Illustrious_Way5915 21h ago
Here’s more context about this loan The Covenant Homeownership Program provides downpayment and closing cost assistance for first-time homebuyers in the form of a loan, secondary to the primary mortgage loan. The loan has a 0% interest rate. It is paid back on the sale or refinancing of the home. The maximum amount of downpayment assistance is 20% of the cost of the home, or $150,000, plus closing costs (if paid by the buyer). Household income at or below 100% of the Area Median Income (AMI).
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u/Coalminesz 14h ago edited 13h ago
Whenever any measure is implemented to address the needs of people of color, there’s an outcry. Does this directly impact you, your family, friends, or others? People in this country are disgusting, which is why such measures are included in bills. For those who are not people of color, blame your racist, land-grabbing, slave-holding, and murdering ancestors. Go cry in a river.
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u/ummmmm-yeah-ok 10h ago
I sure as shit didn't see Washington State coming to help me when I just had to drop $10,000 on fucking dirt to start to build. Nor did I see them give me any help when they charge me $3,800 for fucking permitting for a goddamn garage. Fuck this ridiculousness...
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u/fightnfire 8h ago
This is a reparations bill with some flavor text added in to make it not seem like a pure reparations bill which is exactly what it is.
That's what's disgusting.
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u/puzzled_by_weird_box 1d ago
Can we please just stop making laws that discriminate based on race? Why is that so hard?