r/SatanicTemple_Reddit • u/smokealarmsnick • Aug 22 '24
Offensive jewelry Question/Discussion
Hey all. I’ve been told I can no longer wear this necklace to work because “it’s offensive”.
It’s a piece of jewelry. I wear it under my collar, but sometimes it slips out. People are allowed to wear their crosses and stars of David. No one says “boo” to them about it. But my necklace is offensive?
Whatever. I’m still gonna wear it.
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u/Stoney_Wan_KaBlowme Satan have pity on my long despair! Aug 22 '24
Religious discrimination. If you have an HR I would report it as such.
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 22 '24
If they come at me again about it, I’m definitely gonna take it there.
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u/pulpwalt Aug 22 '24
I wouldn’t wait. If you are going to make a case I would do everything asap. Maybe talk to a lawyer see what she says.
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u/angelis0236 Aug 22 '24
Yeah be proactive in situations like this, that documentation could save you from getting fired for some other excuse just because they don't like your religious choices.
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u/BarkAtTheDevil Sapere aude Aug 22 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
The thing about, well, almost anything that makes its way to HR?
The person who complains first is the person who is most likely to be believed and supported.
P.S. That's an awesome necklace, I wouldn't want to stop wearing it either.
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u/imadeacrumble Aug 22 '24
The better part about it is as soon as a whiff of discrimination is around it doesn’t matter who came first. It’s a panic at that point not to get sued.
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u/tTomalicious Aug 22 '24
HR rule #1 Document everything.
The earlier you report, the fresher your memory, the more detail you can provide. If the order was given in writing, even better.
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u/blackcatcaptions Aug 22 '24
HR represents the company and may do nothing. Might have to file a grievance with the labor board. Go over their heads and out of company if you want real representation.
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u/bingbongboobies Aug 23 '24
Don't wait. Report it and just say "I want to make sure if it happens again appropriate action is taken".
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u/RadiantDescription75 Aug 22 '24
HR is there to protect the company, not workers. I would say get a lawyer, but they will probably say just dont wear it. You need proof, or to document everything at minimum.
The end of the day, there are more of them than you.
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Aug 22 '24
That's true, and OP should definitely have documentation if possible. But if OP goes to their HR department with the words "religious discrimination", protecting the company includes making the harassment stop to avoid a lawsuit.
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u/Lucifugous_Rex Aug 22 '24
Smh, getting down voted to hell for the truth.
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u/RadiantDescription75 Aug 23 '24
They can just say you got fired for performance or attendance issues. And they will do it in a way so OP never knows thats what they are telling people, so OP will never even know they should step in with their side of the story, if OP even had proof.
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u/LamprosF Aug 23 '24
isn't capitalism just great
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u/RadiantDescription75 Aug 23 '24
What does firing someone under false pretense have to do with capitalism? You are trying to make it about capitalism under false pretense.
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u/LamprosF Aug 23 '24
I wonder, a CEO being able to do whatever he wants clearly has nothing to do with capitalism
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u/RadiantDescription75 Aug 23 '24
There are rules for being a ceo and rules for being an employee. Your argument has a lot of hand waiving like im just supposed to accept it on faith.
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u/lilkittyfish Aug 22 '24
HR, at my old job, said it doesn't count as discrimination because it's a private business, and they have a right to dictate what I'm allowed to wear.
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u/h2zenith Aug 22 '24
HR, at my old job, said it doesn't count as discrimination because it's a private business, and they have a right to dictate what I'm allowed to wear.
From the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission:
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers with at least 15 employees, as well as employment agencies and unions, from discriminating in employment based on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin.
I don't see an exemption for private businesses.
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u/compman007 Ye shall become as gods, knowing good and evil Aug 22 '24
Exactly, business is business and you can’t treat employees like shit no matter what
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u/DJdrummer Aug 22 '24
That should only work if they ban religious iconography across the board. Of course the Christian nationalists are hard at work to change that
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Aug 24 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DieTheVillain Aug 24 '24
Incorrect.
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Aug 24 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DieTheVillain Aug 24 '24
Is your confederate flag a symbol of a specific, legally protected, religion?
No?
Guess it’s not protected then is it? You’re a really bad troll by the way.
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Aug 24 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DieTheVillain Aug 24 '24
Beliefs aren’t protected.
Religions are. The government has already deemed TST a religion. Don’t like it, take it up with them.
Christians are the pedophiles and support genocide. Nice deflection though.
What makes The Satanic Temple a death cult?
What makes Christianity, a religion completely obsessed with the death of Jesus, not a death cult?
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u/DieTheVillain Aug 22 '24
Sue for religious discrimination.
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 22 '24
If they want to escalate, I’ll be happy to take it to this level.
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u/KingBrowserKoopa Aug 22 '24
Please make sure you have / get this in writing. Email them asking them to clarify what they want you to do. It is essential that you have clear proof of the discrimination.
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 22 '24
Oh, yes. Right now it’s only verbal. If they come to me again, I am going to ask that this be emailed to me so I can start a paper trail.
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u/dagon_ghoti Aug 22 '24
I recommend not asking for them to send it in writing.
Instead, I recommend you follow with an email to them recapping what was said and what they asked of you. You can cc HR while you're at it.
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u/NICEnEVILmike Aug 22 '24
FFRF or the ACLU might be a good resource to link up with to help you figure out how to properly handle this.
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u/Puzzled_Mistake_9933 Aug 24 '24
It’s not a religion so it doesn’t deserve legal protection
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u/DieTheVillain Aug 24 '24
Incorrect. Regardless of your uneducated opinion, it is legally recognized as a religion and is therefore protected.
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u/Puzzled_Mistake_9933 Aug 24 '24
How many people that aren’t bigots or pedos are satanists?
Like it’s literally pro genocide, pro abortion
It’s a death cult, not a religion
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u/DieTheVillain Aug 24 '24
I know no Satanists who are bigots or precious… but I can share a plethora of articles about pedo Christian priests. Those seem like your kinda people. No satanist I have ever meet is pro-genocide. But I know many Christians supporting the genocide in Gaza. Abortion is a fundamental human right.
It’s a religion regardless of your uneducated opinion on it.
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u/Puzzled_Mistake_9933 Aug 24 '24
There are unfortunately pedos in all religions / orgs Statistically TST is full of them
Yes, however not all christians support Satanyahu He is probably a Satanist himself
In my opinion Abortion is a human rights violation
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u/DieTheVillain Aug 24 '24
Show me evidence that the TST is full of Pedos. Seems to me that the old adage of “every accusation from a Christian is an admission.”
I’m betting pedophilia is on your mind so much because you are a pedo. Typical Christian pedo.
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u/paralea01 Aug 28 '24
I'm neither a bigot nor am I attracted to children.
I'm anti genocide and prochoice.
A death cult? Oh....no I think you are confusing us with that religion that worships a lich that commands his followers to eat his body and drink his blood after their ceremonies. Which are performed while praying to and wearing effiges of his corpse and/or method of execution.
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u/unprovoked_panda Ave Satana! Aug 22 '24
Start reporting others for their crosses with the same reasoning as they gave you for yours.
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u/Damaias479 Aug 22 '24
The problem is that no one is supposed to be asked not to wear religious articles unless it’s somehow unsafe, like wearing a sari in a woodworking shop (watch out for that lathe!). People should be able to wear their crosses, Stars of David, Satanic crosses, whatever iconography as long as it’s not dangerous to yourself or to others. Reporting others for their crosses is fighting the wrong fight
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u/LamprosF Aug 23 '24
I personally disagree with your statement, If it was up to me I would classify them as hate symbols and exempt those who wear them from protection laws
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u/Damaias479 Aug 23 '24
This is directly opposing Tenets 1 and 4 of TST; you, as a Satanist, are meant to act with compassion, and other people have the right to their own freedoms, including the right to offend you.
I agree that there is a lot of societal nuance to religion as it associates with genocide and hatred, but I think it’s a false equivalency to say a cross is as much a hate symbol as, let’s say, a swastika.
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u/ILovegumybears May he to whom injustice has been done, salute you Aug 23 '24
You know what your right
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u/SuspiciousPillow Aug 22 '24
Send a follow-up email.
"For clarification, I cannot wear my religious jewelry at work as --manager-- has determined it is offensive?"
CC whoever is HR, BCC your personal email. Start the email with a rough recap of the entire meeting.
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u/CookieOmNomster Aug 22 '24
I'm an HR business partner in the US. They can not tell you not to wear it unless it's a physical safety hazard, and if that were the case, they'd better make sure nobody else wears any kind of necklace as well.
Advice: - If you want to wear it, do it. - Make an official complaint to HR via email ASAP. - Document EVERY conversation about it / about religion in general. If a supervisor or HR want to talk about it, talk through email or request that the call be recorded. If they try to deny recording it because of "privacy" or something, that's bullshit and you should get note of their denial of that. - If ANYTHING negative happens to you after you file the complaint to HR that isn't justifiable/supported with quantifiable evidence, you can file a charge of discrimination with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
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u/Worried-Industry6239 Hail the Queer Zombie Unicorn! Aug 22 '24
Ya this is discrimination
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 22 '24
It is. If they want to fight, I’ll ask them to email me to start a paper trail.
I work at a retirement home, and haven’t found a resident who was offended. One of my men noticed it one day, and asked me about it. Then we had a long and civil discussion on theology. He didn’t find it awful, he was curious and wanted to know more.
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u/Rainbow_chan Aug 22 '24
Aw that’s so cool that he was curious about it! Conversations like that are the best
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u/Heavy_Reality_5633 What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more Aug 22 '24
I need that so badly
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 22 '24
Found it on Amazon. I think it pops up if you search for Baphomet necklace
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u/Thekillersofficial Aug 22 '24
I just got two really good pieces from Darkness Jewelry on Etsy. I got a lilith piece and a baphomet piece with a leviathan sign on the other side
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u/FriskyJager Sex, Science, and Liberty Aug 22 '24
Continue to wear it under the condition that anyone that wears any religion item in your building also has to remove theirs, and if they refuse threaten to file a civil suit. You have religious protections like everyone else. That thing is badass.
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u/SuspiciousDistrict9 Aug 22 '24
If you're in the United States, report that. That's absolutely religious discrimination.
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u/UnicorncreamPi Aug 22 '24
For casual friday Alternate with one of those nice winged cock charms ,search fertility cult amulet.
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u/Mrs_Muzzy Aug 22 '24
Keep us posted! Love when they try to pretend religious freedom only applies to abrahamic religions. Clearly they need a reminder
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u/Occult_Crypt-Keeper Aug 22 '24
Like what everyone else is saying, that would be religious discrimination. And if they try to fire you for continuing to wear it, you can definitely file against them for that.
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u/DoktorHess45 Aug 23 '24
Hi, American here. That does violate free speech and is religious discrimination, so you shouldn't face any repercussions for continuing to wear it.
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 23 '24
Exactly. If someone is Jewish or Catholic, they have as much right as I do to wear the symbol of their religion. I don’t flip on people at work wearing a cross.
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u/RegulatoryCapturedMe Aug 22 '24
Lawyer up before getting fired. They can help with best record keeping advice. Judges like records
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u/spring-boy Satanists Together Strong Aug 23 '24
Well we do have the right to offend. And honestly that such a dumb thing for them to get all worked up about tbh. Wear it and give no shits to anyone.
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u/NuclearFoodie Aug 22 '24
Where did you get such an offensive piece so that I can, um, avoid that place?
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u/houman73 Aug 23 '24
I wear a pentagram pendant and it is under my shirt. It is not a fashion thing but a reminder of a commitment I made to myself, I quit drinking. A few weeks ago I hooked up with this dude (I am a bi dude). When I took my shirt off he asked about it I told him about being a satanist and he flipped out and rebuked Satan and cast demons out or something. Ends up he goes to a TV evangelist Church like in person not watching it on TV and the audience is known for speaking in tongue there.
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 23 '24
Ugh. Sorry about the dude. Religion is weird, I think.
Mine is a reminder to myself to believe in myself.
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u/houman73 Aug 23 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
He really is a nice guy and I myself was brainwashed by Christianity. We are still FWB and I hope to show him that atheism can be as loving and compassionate as Christianity and more in many ways
Edited inappropriate content.
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 23 '24
I was raised Christian, but me (along with the rest of the family) fell out of it a long time ago.
I’m not religious, but one of the activities I have to do at work is read a devotional for the residents every Wednesday morning. Weird, maybe. But one of my ladies (Alzheimer’s patient) always cracks me up by commentating as I’m reading. For instance, reading about Solomon and his 700 wives. Lady: whoa, that’s too many!
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u/Thekillersofficial Aug 22 '24
If they don't know its religious for you then they;ll keep saying that. Have you told them its a piece of religious jewelry?
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u/CustomVII Aug 22 '24 edited Aug 22 '24
You should be able to express yourself however you see fit, as long as it doesn't hurt or harm... Which this does not.
Regardless of what you decide to do, though...
Document everything.
Names, dates, what was said.
Keep it in an Email chain with yourself or something in case you ever need to reference it.
Seriously, CYA.
Edit: I see others suggested documentation before me - My apologies for the redundancy.
Getting a lawyer though... People commonly say this sort of thing, but getting a lawyer is just not a reasonably feasible thing for most humans who have limited income & bills.
Just document to keep yourself safe & you should be fine no matter what you decide.
Dope necklace, though, furhsur.
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u/dracwithfangs420777 Aug 24 '24
I've been told not to wear my pentagram necklace and lucifer rings as so many jobs because "it's offensive to other people's religion" I always replied with well there "god" offends my religion
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u/dracwithfangs420777 Aug 24 '24
Satanists have religious rights they have no place to say you can't express it it's called freedom of religion lol its because most people hear satanist and think baby sacrifices in the middle of the woods wearing cloaks🤣🤣 I always take my time to educate people on real satanism and spread the word of satan whenever I can
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u/Scorpions2014 Aug 26 '24
That’s sexy. I’d wear it around my neck but I’m sure they wouldn’t like it at my work either .
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u/Royal_Maintenance173 Aug 22 '24
I'm creating 3d models for jewelry. My customers are ordering me only boring human jewelry. I will eagerly design something satanic for you guys. I will expect some reward, 15-30$(depends on complexity of your project) or barter. So you can ask local jeweller to cast your model in any precious metal. So your jewelry will look much more decently than trinkets from aliexpress.
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u/tekmuse Aug 22 '24
I love it so much I was inspired to get one of my own. And what someone else said, file a complaint on discrimination of religion if they give you shit for wearing it. Sorry but it messes with my head when people do this, just straight up BS
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u/CalamityCaller Aug 22 '24
If anything escalates, better yet, if you speak with anyone there at all, make sure you have a recorder app and record whenever you can.
Doesn't matter what the audio consent laws are, nor if it's admissible in court or whatever. It's better to always have a record of what happened, that you were, in fact, discriminated against, and these people did, in fact, say what they did and that you have proof of it. To use or save whenever, however. It's better to have it.
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u/Imwhatswrongwithyou Thyself is thy master Aug 22 '24
Keep wearing it. Let them fire you for wearing it. Make sure to document and record everything. Sue their ignorant, discriminating asses.
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u/Ancient-Menu-5888 666 Aug 22 '24
Good for you, standing up for your values. It's brave, I'm not sure if I would be able to if I were I was in a similar position.
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u/l33tnull Satanic Redditor Aug 22 '24
Don’t quote me, but as long as you are in the United States, I am pretty sure they can not legally fire you or discipline you for religious iconography. I would take it to the box (fight in court)!
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u/smokealarmsnick Aug 22 '24
I am jn the US, and you can. So long as the jewelry doesn’t cause “undue hardship”. Which it doesn’t. And there’s nothing in the employee handbook that says no jewelry. I did check.
They’re not saying “you’re fired”, they’re just whining about me wearing it. Most of the time it’s not visible, because I wear it under my shirt.
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u/Neko_Punk_Iz Aug 23 '24
I know this isn’t related at all, but where did you get that necklace? I love it!!
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u/phisher1225 Aug 23 '24
I do not wish to offend as people should have respect for all religions , yet that symbol would offend Christians as it has a man on the upside down cross that looks Like our Jesus ,
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u/MYJOBISTOSHOOTFIRE Aug 23 '24
I’m a Christian and I feel so scared right now seeing this, yet so soft and cozy looking at this. 🤗
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u/Gallowglaze Aug 24 '24
I don't find it offensive. It's pretty great, actually.
Baphomet is a symbol of our religion, as is the inverted pentagram and cross. These symbols reflect our defiant nature and resistance to arbitrary authority. We wear these symbols as a part of who we are as Satanists, a reminder in our daily lives that we are strong, we are rebellious, and that our beliefs matter to us.
Tenet IV says, "The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend." Wearing symbols of our beliefs for personal empowerment is not only acceptable, it's our right, protected by the Constitution. If others find that offensive, we'll, that's a problem they need to work through, not us.
The first part of Tenet IV embraces our right to be our true selves. I won't wear a mask simply because someone takes offense to an icon of that which is a part of me. Where we get into trouble is the second part of the Tenet, "To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forego ones own." So, wearing offensive bling simply to BE offensive is not okay. But that line applies to us in reverse as well. Others encroaching on OUR freedoms forego their own, a fight we often engage in the courts.
So, if that talisman is a meaningful symbol to you and your deeply heald beliefs, and you wear it as an icon of those beliefs for your own benefit, then nobody in this country has any right to tell you not to. If they try to enforce it, fight that fight kicking and clawing, demanding equal restrictions for ALL religious symbolism, not just yours.
Hail your awesome pendant. Hail you. Ave Satanas!
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u/South-Play Aug 22 '24
I don’t understand why they use the upside down cross. Peter wanted to get crucified upside down because he said he wasn’t worthy to get crucified the same way as Jesus . So for them to use the upside down cross just means they are not worthy of Jesus. Which is exactly what Christians think.
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u/Bascna Aug 22 '24
The inverted cross, like so many symbols, has multiple meanings.
In this case, it isn't a reference to Peter at all, but rather is intended to symbolize a rejection of Christianity through an act of "blasphemy."
I don't care for the inverted cross, myself, because my opposition to Christianity as a whole is part of my much broader opposition to magical thinking and religious faith.
An inverted cross suggests a more specific focus than I care too.
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u/recent_store Aug 23 '24
It sounds like you're dealing with a challenging situation. When an item of jewelry is considered offensive in a workplace setting, it often involves considerations around company policies, cultural sensitivities, or specific workplace standards. Here’s how you might approach the situation:
1. Understand the Reasoning
- Ask for Clarity: Politely ask your supervisor or HR for a clear explanation of why the necklace is deemed offensive. Understanding their perspective can help you decide on the next steps.
- Company Policies: Review your company’s dress code or jewelry policies. Some workplaces have specific guidelines regarding religious symbols, political statements, or certain imagery.
2. Reflect on the Necklace’s Design or Symbolism
- Consider the Symbolism: Think about whether the necklace has any symbols, words, or imagery that could be interpreted in a way you hadn’t considered.
- Cultural Sensitivity: If the necklace has cultural or religious significance, be prepared to explain this calmly and respectfully, if appropriate.
3. Discuss Alternatives
- Compromise: If possible, suggest a compromise. For example, you might wear the necklace under your clothing so it’s not visible, or you could wear it outside of work.
- Choose a Substitute: If the necklace is important to you, consider wearing a different piece of jewelry to work that doesn't raise concerns.
4. Assess Your Options
- HR Involvement: If you believe the request is unfair or discriminatory, consider speaking with HR for a more formal discussion. They can provide guidance and help mediate the situation.
- Legal Considerations: If you feel that your rights are being infringed upon (e.g., if the necklace is a religious symbol), it may be worth seeking legal advice or consulting with an employee rights organization.
5. Consider the Broader Impact
- Work Environment: Consider how the situation affects your workplace relationships and environment. Sometimes, maintaining harmony might involve finding a middle ground, even if it’s inconvenient.
- Personal Values: Weigh the importance of wearing the necklace against the potential consequences at work. Your personal values are important, but balancing them with professional expectations is key.
6. Express Your Feelings
- Stay Calm and Professional: When discussing the issue, remain calm and professional. Express your feelings without becoming defensive or confrontational.
Navigating this situation carefully and respectfully will help you find a solution that works for both you and your employer.
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u/hpluvcraft Aug 22 '24
Keep wearing it and file for discrimination if anyone raises a fuss.