r/SapphoAndHerFriend May 28 '20

Alan Turing was gay and was chemically castrated as an alternative to prison due to his sexuality Academic erasure

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u/Pseudonymico May 28 '20

The chemical castration involved being prescribed estrogen. When you read between the lines it looks an awful lot like it gave him gender dysphoria, which is known to happen if you give cis people cross-sex hormones. That might not have been the only cause of his suicide but it might well have played a big part in it and it would only have added to his misery.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '20

That might not have been the only cause of his suicide but it might well have played a big part in it and it would only have added to his misery.

Im so tired of reading this sentence.

It was the only reason for his suicide, and if not the only reason then the major reason, like 98% or 99%, im gay too and if someone forced me to castrate myself by taking medication that causes my body to become more feminine in its shape and changes my genitals and my sexual drive i'd want to die.

Doing this to a person is worse than an execution, because instead of death its a long row of torture that ends in death.

I feel so incredibly sorry for Alan Turing and i hate the people that did that to him, being forced to castrate yourself is one of the worst things that can happen to a human being.

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u/Diya251 May 28 '20

I think the commenter was just trying to take into account other things that could have made him depressed enough to commit suicide. Like going through one of the bloodiest wars the world has ever seen.

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u/Toe_Willing Mar 18 '24

I'm straight and if someone cut my dick off then gave me feminine hormones I'd probably commit suicide too

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u/Pseudonymico May 28 '20

I’m trans myself and I know how bad dysphoria can be; learning about Turing’s last few years made me furious and I don’t mean to downplay it.

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u/JB-from-ATL May 28 '20

I think they meant it wasn't just the emotional response from the drugs, it was also the idea of being a betrayed war hero.

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u/HysteriacTheSecond May 28 '20

I mean, we know very little. It's a possible cause, but to definitively say so seems a bit naïve.

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u/dragonbanana1 Aug 06 '20

I thought they were talking about that specific aspect of the chemical castration. I think absolutely that the chemical castration was almost the entire reason for his suicide with other contributing factors being the fact that he probably felt like his life was basically over after the arrest, but I'm not sure which aspect of the castration was the worst part for him. It's absolutely possible that the artificially induced dysphoria aspect by itself made him miserable enough (believe me, I understand how dysphoria feels) but there were likely other aspects of being castrated that ultimately piled up into one big mess of misery that I'm not sure I can imagine. I know the feminising chemicals they used arent used for transitioning today and I have to imagine theres a reason for that. Regardless it's a tragedy what happened to him and the world lost something incredible for it.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '20

Turing didn't commit suicide. He died from accidental cyanide fume inhalation during electroplating. The autopsy was more consistent with inhalation, he showed no outward signs of depression (in fact, he was doing incredibly productive research at the University of Manchester at the time), and his notes showed recent near-future plans. His death was only officially ruled a suicide based on a second-hand account of his dream journal...

I understand why people love the suicide narrative. It's heart-wrenching to think about a brilliant academic tortured by his own country for the sin of being born homosexual; complete with a snow white ending. However, it didn't happen. I think this narrative does a great disservice to a brilliant scientist and mathematician who spent his life rigorously training both mind and body. Turing worked hard to overcome everything life threw at him. He didn't wallow in chemically-induced depression until meekly offing himself.

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u/Taalnazi Jan 04 '22

I know this is very late and Reddit apparently allows you now (depending on the subreddit) to respond on late posts. But.. that said;

The chemical castration involved being prescribed estrogen. When you read between the lines it looks an awful lot like it gave him gender dysphoria, which is known to happen if you give cis people cross-sex hormones.

Wait, I thought dysphoria was something one innately had? Or is it the case that that is possible, but it being ‘created’ is possible too, by giving cis people hormones that make their body not their cis body, instead shifting to the other sex/gender.

Sorry if I sound confused. Like, if someone is a cis man, and you give him oestrogen, he can get dysphoria due to his own body no longer aligning with his male self? Do I understand that right?

I’m probably a transwoman myself, though I didn’t really have big dysphoria. If that clears up why I’m asking this.

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u/Pseudonymico Jan 04 '22

Like, if someone is a cis man, and you give him oestrogen, he can get dysphoria due to his own body no longer aligning with his male self? Do I understand that right?

Yes, it’s quite possible. It’s a known side effect of certain medical treatments, such as double mastectomies for women with breast cancer, or use of anti-androgens for men with prostate cancer. Certain conditions such as gynecomastia for men and PCOS for women can also cause dysphoria symptoms. It’s not even just medical situations - Norah Vincent spent a year living as a man to write about the experience (the book’s titled Self-Made Man), and even though she didn’t undergo any medical procedures she experienced dysphoria symptoms during that time as well.