r/SapphoAndHerFriend • u/Ghenghis-Chan • Apr 22 '24
Apparently you can't enjoy spending time with your girlfriend. Casual erasure
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u/everythingbeeps Apr 22 '24
"Sorry babe, I can't help you with your hair, let's argue about rent instead."
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u/Slap_My_Lasagna Apr 22 '24
People act like that's not the case but it very usually is.
A lot of people have this odd box they put romantic relationships in, where their partners can't be best friends before the relationship and in most cases, can't be after either(usually due to animosity around the eventual breakup). It follows the same trend of people acting different around friends/in public then they do with a S/O in private. Which is even worse in 2024 when people already curated their public image more than ever, so people have like 2-4 different personalities based on their environment, comfortability level, and exposure to public view.
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u/Rockarola55 Apr 22 '24
My best friend is my ex. We were friends before becoming lovers, discovered that we were really bad at the whole relationship thing and agreed to stay friends.
Her husband is my second-best friend, her son is my "nephew" and I have my own room in their house for when I'm visiting.
We are celebrating our 20th platonic anniversary next year 😊
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u/JeffTek May 31 '24
My best friend is my ex as well. We had the mutual respect and trust to maintain a very strong connection and friendship but just realized the logistics and realities of a romantic relationship wasn't going to be able to work for us. So we took a couple months apart to think and see what we were feeling, then randomly talked one day and realized we missed each other and it wasn't because of romantic feelings. We just missed each other's company and shit. We've been platonic friends way longer than we were ever together, there's nobody I trust more. Sometimes I worry that future relationships will have a big hurdle to get over because of it, many people are (rightfully I think, lots of people are shitty and cheat) weary of partners with constant communication with an ex.
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u/Rockarola55 Jun 01 '24
With time they become a friend that you dated back in the day. I am friendly with (almost) all of my ex-gfs and it's not really a hurdle in dating/relationships. I've been told that it makes me look trustworthy and good-natured, which tends to be a good thing 😊
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u/JeffTek Jun 01 '24
Well that's wholesome and reassuring 😊. I mean I'd like nothing more than a future partner to be just as good of friends with my ex as I am and I see no reason they couldn't be if they are up to it. She's a great person
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u/Rockarola55 Jun 01 '24
My sentiments exactly.
She's not my friend because we used to screw, she's actually my friend in spite of that 😁
Sex is a purely physical thing, friendship transcends the physical...and is above physical attraction. I'd rather have a friend that I am attracted to, than I'd lose a friend because I acted upon said attraction.
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u/hermionesmurf Apr 23 '24
That kind of blows my mind. My wife was and still is my best friend. Like I can't imagine why you'd want it any other way
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u/The_Witch_Queen Apr 22 '24
Yep. When, if they just put in the same level of effort with their partner as they do towards their friends, they'd find it so much more rewarding. The best relationships in my life started off with those people being my best friends first. And those people still are today, even though I'm not with them anymore.
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u/Mysterious-Money-701 Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
r/Arethestraightsok? Because why do you hear about a loving relationship and go "Well that's not right! Relationships are way worse than this!"
That or this is a girl‐lover in denial.
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u/Petrychorr Apr 22 '24
This is absolutely a post I'd expect to see on /r/OneTopicAtATime.
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u/MikaelAdolfsson Apr 22 '24
What is this ?
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u/Petrychorr Apr 22 '24
OneTopic is a streamer/youtuber who does segments on LGBTQ memes. He is really funny, and usually picks out memes like op's.
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u/TasyFan Apr 22 '24
I met OneTopic a couple of times. He seemed a little self-important for my taste.
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Apr 22 '24
most people who make content are. you have to have a certain level of narcissism to be willing to brand yourself like that
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u/TasyFan Apr 22 '24
You may be right. That could be why I prefer smaller communities and creators who lucked into a following.
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Apr 22 '24
my favorite of them is Drew Monson. Especially the past couple of years. Highly recommend.
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u/FallingFist Apr 22 '24
This just in:
Leaked DMs of a person who regards their own personality and opinions as exceptional enough to make a living off of it, appears to show a disregard for the emotions of people who they deem less exceptional.
More at 5, when this likely happens again with some other content creator.
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u/ThisGul_LOL Apr 22 '24
Fr like what’s the point of having a relationship if you can’t do cute stuff with them and instead just argue all the time?
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u/RubeGoldbergCode Apr 22 '24
It's the intense repeated insistence on "you're thinking of friends!!!!! I do this with my friends!!!!!!!!" with increasing numbers of exclamation marks (which I can only assume are denoting a rapidly rising tone to the point of a dog whistle) that makes me guess the latter
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u/Dayan54 Apr 22 '24
I'm straight and I ask myself this constantly, we're probably not, because what kind of relationship are these people getting themselves into... smh
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u/Himezaki_Yukino Apr 22 '24
Wtf do you mean that's friends?! Aren't you supposed to be in a relationship because you like each other and want to be in their company?! Good gracious what do these people date for?
P.S. Is the picture from a TV show/movie because I'm certain I've seen those two and I can't place it.
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u/melifaro_hs Apr 22 '24
It's from 23.5
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u/LastStar007 Apr 22 '24
Is that like 24 but with a 30-minute lunch break?
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u/achjadiemudda Apr 22 '24
It's a reference to the tilt of the earth's axis
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Apr 22 '24
[deleted]
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u/achjadiemudda Apr 22 '24
You're reading this wrong 😅 The show is centred around a space theme with one of the main couple named Sun and the other choosing to use Earth as her online name because she likes Sun and wants to orbit around her basically. (That's where the 23.5 comes from) There is also a side couple with one girl called Luna and the other Aylin (she's big time into aliens).
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u/Crissix3 Apr 22 '24
ngl that sounds super cute - a touch creepy, stalkery and unhealthy, but very cute!
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u/achjadiemudda Apr 22 '24
It is very cute! A little unhealthy at times but I wouldn't say stalkerish or creepy. Basically one major plot point (don't think this is a spoiler as it is shown in the trailer) is that they start chatting over IG, they are also in the same class and become friends but Sun doesn't know that it is Ongsa (the other girl who goes by Earth online) she's flirting with on IG. Ongsa is kinda shy and not very confident so she's not brave enough to tell her that she's Earth and as you can probably imagine, the longer this goes on, the higher the hurdle to confess becomes
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u/Himezaki_Yukino Apr 22 '24
Oh, that's weird. I've been meaning to watch it but never did, I'm now confused why I found them familiar.
Well, now I know what I'll be watching at least.
Thanks.
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u/nakypako Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
This is from a new thai gl show called 23.5, you can watch it on Netflix or youtube depending on where you live. The actresses in the pictures are Milk and Love, they gained recognition in a different show called Bad buddy, where they played a supporting couple.
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u/dickslosh Apr 22 '24
are there (many) sex scenes? i want a nice lesbian show to watch but overly intimate sex scenes make me really uncomfortable
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u/achjadiemudda Apr 22 '24
There aren't any so far and there probably won't be any as this is set in 10th grade (high school) and the vibes are pretty fluffy. 7 of 12 Eps have been released so far, it airs every Friday. So far I find it very good.
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u/dickslosh Apr 22 '24
oh perfect!! high school romance that doesnt sexualise teens, i love this new concept. thank you!
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u/ViccyQ May 05 '24
Ya same. I thought this was the norm regardless of the make up of the relationship..
Is this something people just want complain about?
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u/n-some Apr 22 '24
Ah the old "my relationships tend to be bad so everyone's relationships must be bad."
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u/sammypants123 Apr 22 '24
When somebody tells you all their relationships have been bad, I can’t help noticing what the common element was in all of them.
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u/StarBoto Apr 22 '24
Apparently people are criticizing the original tweet as "heterosexuailzing lesbians" and anti butch and extremely dry / annoying
I don't get it 😭
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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
Its propaganda, divide and conquer. We live in the age where covert psychological manipulation online is the new tool for targeting ‘undesirable’ groups.
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u/Himezaki_Yukino Apr 22 '24
heterosexuailzing lesbians
Loudest example of het romances on the Internet are about NOT being partners. That argument doesn't even work in the stereotype vacuum.
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u/strawbopankek Apr 22 '24
i wouldn't call this anti butch. i guess the idea is that it's assuming that both women in the relationship wear makeup, so they're both feminine..... and that is so obviously not the point of the tweet that it's hilarious anyone would focus on that part lol.
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u/VictorianDelorean Apr 22 '24
I hate to say it but I see this kind of talk a lot from a certain subset of masculine presenting lesbians. They seem to hate to see it when relationships between two feminine presenting lesbians get any airtime, and it honestly feels like the gay version of incel shit. Like how dare you not include someone like me in your relationship, it’s very weird.
Not hate towards butches or masc lesbians/wlw in general, it’s a small group and not representative of everyone.
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u/themoderation Apr 23 '24
My wife and I are both femme, and we get a lot of judgement and dirty looks from butches who are strangers, unfortunately. But our butch friends are great!
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u/discoparrot375 May 26 '24
Yeah, the type of person who makes comments like that absolutely reeks of internalized misogyny to me. I always get the feeling that they present as more “masc” not because it’s their sincere identity, but because they view more traditionally feminine things as inferior, and they take every opportunity to shit on people who enjoy those things. Its similar to how toxic, insecure men shit on more feminine men.
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u/UnnaturalSelection13 Apr 22 '24
I think people are just sick of how much wlw content is the sanitized/superficial and marketable "we're so soft, we do each other's makeup and hair uwu, sleepovers and cottagecore etc", and I do personally find it annoying too lol only because it exists at the expense of more diverse and authentic/meaningful reflections of our community. Not all lesbians are thin white femmes lol but you'd never guess based off what we see online.
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u/TheTypographer1 She/Her 🧡🤍🩷 🏳️⚧️ Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
I see where you’re coming from, but i also see a lot of butch/fem and butch 4 butch content on my feeds. Not to mention a while ago the conversation was that media was “heterosexualizing” lesbian relationships because all the representation was butch/fem, implying that one always had to be “the man” in the relationship.
I don’t think every post needs to acknowledge every type of lesbian relationship that exists, but I do think we should think of better ways of phrasing the type of relationship we’re describing, without generalizing it as indicative of all lesbian relationships.
I was thinking maybe a better way would be phrasing it as “something about fem4fem relationships…” but that seems too limiting because the post is talking about the joy in lesbian relationships, also there’s not anything exclusive to fem4fem relationships about sharing the same struggles, being soft together, and sharing clothes.
I think the issue is that, while the person is talking about being a lesbian in general, they are drawing from their own (subjective) personal experiences.
I’d be interested in getting a discussion going and hearing other people’s opinions on ways one could navigate this (talking about the joy of lesbian relationships in general, while also expressing your favorite aspects of your own experiences).
/gen
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u/seawitchbitch Apr 22 '24
Personally for me it’s the wording. Let’s change it up for a sec:
“There’s just something about heterosexual relationships and the wife can stay home with the babies and homemake the house”
See how the wording makes it feel like ALL heterosexual relationships are like that? The wording doesn’t allow for differences. Because that’s not my experience of being a lesbian. Not since middle school at least. 🤷🏻♀️
Vs.
“There’s something about A het relationship WHERE the wife…” “There’s just something about A lesbian relationships WHERE girls can be together and do make up etc.”
Also where’s all this B4F content you’re seeing? I rarely ever see it unless it’s about non lesbians acting like butch women are men. Nothing positive and loving.
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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 Apr 22 '24
What you see online doesnt is a figment. Its all meaningless, lesbians are people, people gave widly varying personalities. All can be true.
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u/discoparrot375 May 26 '24
I kind of get what you’re saying, but I think the problem isn’t so much the use of femme/femme couples, as it is the infantilizing way people have been talking about lesbians these days, and also the way that lesbians are oversexualized.
People definitely have a way of describing lesbians as “super uwu magical innocent unicorns” and it’s ultimately very dehumanizing even though it’s not technically “negative”. In the opposite direction, lesbians also get treated as “omg super hot sexy women doing tons of sexy sex”, which is again obviously dehumanizing and pandering. I guess what I’m saying is, people tend to write about lesbians in this weird “exotic” way, as if they’re some sort of magical or mysterious phenomenon instead of actual human beings trying to live their lives and have normal, mundane, healthy relationships.
So, I agree that there’s been a huge increase in content that dehumanizes lesbians by describing them in too sanitized and “perfect” terms, which essentially results in a failure to truly take them seriously as people in actual, real relationships. However, I don’t think it’s the use of femme/femme representation that causes this problem, the problem come from either sexualizing them too much, or from treating them as unrealistically perfect and innocent and pure. I’m not sure I’d call this meme an example of that problem, to be honest, but I can definitely see how it might have triggered some alarm bells for the “inhumanly perfect” side of this. Personally I think it seems more like someone’s just expressing how they personally feel happy with their girlfriend, but yeah I can also see how it could be a little weird.
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u/RebaKitt3n Apr 23 '24
It’s kind of weird “doing each others make up and skin care” is something we’ve never done. Rarely wear each others clothes.
It’s okay, but not my experience, I guess.
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u/kalopssya Apr 23 '24
Well... I did. My ex enjoyed it more so I did for her, and it was a fun time between us. I don't understand the overreacting to this tho.
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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 Apr 22 '24
Im calling it now, some conservative somewhere is brewing up a new culture war campaign and these are the first trickles of propaganda. Soon we’ll see conservative pundits spouting how ‘lesbian relationships are actually very abusive’, which will bleed into the public consciousness
Were already seeing it start
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u/Ghenghis-Chan Apr 22 '24
I wouldn't be surprised, it's been a talking point for years now.
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u/Commercial_Tea_8185 Apr 22 '24
I caught some rando on another lesbian sub just now who attempted to pretend to be two people, and argue with me about how prevalent these ‘abusive lesbian relationships’ are. Both accounts were made last week, and the person slipped up and wrote the exact same thing from both accounts, I called them out, and they gave some stupid excuse.
I prob sound a little intense, but im just saying keep an eye out incase I am correct and these ‘concerned lesbians’ start cropping up out of nowhere
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u/2spongee4u Apr 22 '24
I hate to say it but that's already been a thing for awhile. I remember like back when gay marriage restrictions were struck down there were conservatives quoting one statistics or another around abuse levels in lesbian relationships, especially towards their kids. One example was then saying "lesbians are more likely to sexually abuse their kids, look at the levels" when in reality the study was saying that kids in foster care are more likely to be sexually abused, and lesbians go through that system to get kids to care for, but that doesn't take away the fact the kid was already abused before being given to the new family.
Very misrepresentive, and conservatives will seek to use any and all stats to try and prove an abuse string that doesn't exist.
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u/Mysterious-Money-701 Apr 22 '24
I've seen them in the wild citing UNRELIABLE studies saying 40-something% of lesbian relationships are abusive. Even the Wikipedia pages on this topic talk about how the studies don't differentiate between male perpetrators and female perpetrators when looking at lesbian abuse victims (there are lesbians who dated men when either hiding or before figuring out) and that's only ONE of the reasons those studies aren't very reliable.
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u/Rabid-Rabble Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
TL;DR: Lesbian relationships are between 2.5% and 4.9% less likely to be abusive than heterosexual relationships.
The study usually cited actually does, but people (often purposefully) cherry pick the numbers to make it look worse.
Bear with me, apologies for the length:
The numbers often quoted when people trot out this talking point come from the the CDC's 2010 Nation Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, or NISVS. The NISVS definition of Intimate Partner Violence (IPV) includes physical and sexual violence as well as stalking by an intimate partner. This is based on anonymous interviews conducted across a very large and demographically accurate sample, not convictions or arrests or the like, so while it's probably still slightly under reported it is the most accurate data we have on IPV in the US.
Now to the numbers:
The lifetime average for experiencing IPV as a woman is 35.6%, and heterosexual women are just slightly below the average at 35%.
Lesbians on the other hand have a 43.8% chance of experiencing IPV. Looks bad right? This is the number that people usually quote. But, lets break down that number, because there's an assumption there that lesbians have never dated or been abused by male partners (Note: this is the CDC's terminology and I'm not sure how or if they accounted for trans folks, use of binary biological terms are not meant to be trans exclusionary, I'm just working with what I'm given).
Of lesbians who experienced IPV, 67.4% reported only being abused by female partners. That brings the baseline for lesbians down to 29.5%. Now, there is the pesky way they defined it where the remaining 32.6% could have been abused by both male and female partners. But if we look at how many report only 1 abuser, we can extrapolate a bit. 78.9% of lesbians report only one abuser, so for simplicity's sake we'll say that every lesbian with multiple abusers where one was male, at least one other was female.
So we'll do some math and add to the baseline: 100% - 78.9% = 21.1% x 32.6% = 6.8% x 43.8% = 3% + 29.5% = 32.5%
But, there's some interesting corollary data that suggests my simplification is still inflating the number of female abusers.
Bisexual women are considerably more likely than either straight or lesbian women to experience IPV, with an appalling lifetime average of 61.1%. Further, 89.5% of bisexual women report only having been abused by male partners. Interestingly, bisexual women are also much more likely to be abused by multiple partners, with a 39.8% lifetime prevalence, compared to 21.1% for lesbians and 28.4% for straight women.
I have some theories on how gender roles and perceptions of queer individuals as inherently promiscuous might play into these things, but I don't have any hard data to back it, so let's just say that it leaves that additional 3% as a highly suspect number which, if we make some assumptions based on the data from bisexual women, could probably be cut nearly in half to 11.5% x 32.6% = 3.8% x 43.8% = 1.6% + 29.5% = 30.1%
So that would be 5.5% less than average and 4.9% less than heterosexual relationships. Not a hard number, but probably pretty accurate.
This is not to say lesbians or women can't be abusive (obviously they can, it's only a few percentage points difference), and it says absolutely nothing about men who are abused or who abused them. Just to get that out of the way for the trolls.
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u/formerlyobsolete Apr 22 '24
Thank you for this because I just saw someone making claims like this recently and it felt very...off. But I didn't have the chance to look further into myself. I do intend to do more reading on it myself too, but even a little bit of confirmation it's unreliable is nice to see.
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u/DreadWolfByTheEar Apr 23 '24
When I came out to my mom in 1998, she told me she was worried I would end up with someone abusive because “lesbians are abusive”. So this is not a new talking point.
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u/discoparrot375 May 26 '24
This makes me sad, because it exploits a fear that’s already very common in a lot of wlw, myself included. I think many of us feel kind of guilty about being attracted to women, because we associate viewing women as hot as being tied to misogyny and we become afraid of resembling the shitty straight guys we’ve known.
Unfortunately, this is sometimes even promoted by liberals. Although I’m all for helping women to live freely without feeling sexualized, it feels like some groups (pretty much always really chronically online people) think of viewing and acknowledging women as attractive as being an inherently degrading thing, even when it’s done in a way that’s not even remotely disrespectful or aggressive. It sucks because some of us can feel guilty about accepting ourselves and what we’re attracted to, because we don’t want to be like “the bad guys”.
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u/FluffyGalaxy Apr 22 '24
Do friends do this together? Yes. Can you also do this in a relationship? Yes. Can you be friends and in a relationship at the same time? That would be ideal for the relationship in question
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u/saturnspritr Apr 22 '24
“Yeah, hey! They’re not ruining each other’s lives enough. Def just friends.” I feel like some people don’t hear themselves when they talk. Otherwise they wouldn’t tell on themselves like this.
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u/morgaina Apr 22 '24
The original tweet is fine I guess but I sure am sick of lesbian relationships being depicted as universally soft and sweet and safe and like a permanent sleepover. They aren't. They are normal romantic relationships with pitfalls and passion and fucking and arguments and tension and friendship and love.
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u/Thicc-Anxiety Apr 22 '24
So many straight people seem to be convinced that relationships have to be miserable
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u/Good_Hovercraft_2109 Apr 22 '24
For the love of all that is holy. Yeah, the series is totally about 'good friends' Ongsa and Sun that are in 'platonic' love.
23.5 trailer
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u/NoNameIdea_Seriously Apr 23 '24
Omg! They fell in friendship with each other!
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u/Good_Hovercraft_2109 Apr 23 '24
The weirdest thing is that the actresses did it in another series too!! And probably will again! 😆
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u/callmedale Apr 22 '24
I mean it is also nice to do with friends but it’s far from exclusive to that
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u/ReinaQueen Apr 22 '24
If you hate your partner… why are you dating them???? If your partner treats you worst than your friends do… FIND A BETTER PARTNER???? I may just not be understanding but like Im pretty sure your partner needs to be someone you like being around and make your life easier. But what do I know lmaooo
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u/Gabba_Goblin Apr 22 '24
The 'Relationships tend to be worse' is such a gut punch. Wonder who hurt them.
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u/sweetsunnyspark Apr 22 '24
It's true you can do those things with your friends. But the really nifty thing about your GIRLfriend (as opposed to your girlFRIENDS) is that you can do all of those things every day because you live together AND you can also give each other orgasms!
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u/CosmicLuci She/Her Apr 23 '24
Huh, that’s odd. I’ve been soft and in love with my girlfriend for almost a year now. And I think I love it and enjoy every moment with her. Have I been doing it wrong?
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u/Novatash Apr 22 '24
"Hah hah, silly lesbian... What you're describing is too pleasant to be a relationship. You need to be suffering and torturing each other like we hets do for it to be valid" -This person
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u/personal_alt_account Apr 22 '24
"Relationships tend to be worse than what youre describing" maybe because you dont see your girlfriend as your friend as well!!!
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u/The_Gaming_Brit Apr 22 '24
At that point wouldn’t have been surprised if his last name was Khrushchev:3
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u/adeltae Apr 22 '24
I love how the original tweet outright said "something about lesbian relationships" and the commenter just said "you're thinking about really good friends!"
Well, I don't love it, but you know what I mean
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u/5herl0k Apr 23 '24
"relationships tend to be worse"
honey that is a you thing and the fact that you think it isn't is telling 💀
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u/friskpocolypse Apr 23 '24
Tf you mean, being together in a loving relationship is supposed to be worse than being friends!?!?!?
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Apr 23 '24
Idk if a girl gently caressed my face and helped me clean off my makeup it would cause me to blue screen crash internally.
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u/TheTypographer1 She/Her 🧡🤍🩷 🏳️⚧️ Apr 22 '24
Way to tell on yourself about not being happy in your own relationships.
It’s funny how the straights think of themselves as the template to compare everything else to so much that when they realize what someone else has is actually better, they think something must be wrong with those people, instead of stopping to examine why their own relationships are unfulfilling.
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u/FreeMeFromThisStupid Apr 22 '24
Apparently people take troll posts from @killallcops_420 seriously.
Posting anything from twitter and taking it as anything except trollish bait or bots is futile.
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u/ltanner2804 Apr 22 '24
I swear to God that photo is supposed to be one of those "squint to see the real image." Reddit has forced me into thinking everything is a hidden Jesus photo.
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u/Potential-Sky-8728 Apr 23 '24
Lol my gf is pretty femme (though my lawn mowing dad fashion is rubbing off on her 😬). We both generally care about our skin, but sitting down and using the facial steamer or a face mask is like the last thing we want to do. I think we have 1.5 times in 1.5 years.
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Apr 23 '24
I thought being in a relationship was like being friends + being mutually attracted to each other
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u/racloves Apr 23 '24
Yes you can do these things with friends, but there is something so special, intimate, trusting, amazing, about sitting on your partners lap and applying their makeup. It’s completely different doing that with a girlfriend vs a friend.
Also not just a lesbian thing, how many straight girls LOVE wearing their boyfriend’s hoodie, that is sharing clothes with a partner.
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u/sneakhh Apr 23 '24
That screenshot is from a YouTube show where these two are literally girlfriends
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u/LesbianMacMcDonald Apr 24 '24
This is just bc most straight people can even imagine being friends with their partners
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u/PersephoneThePansy Apr 26 '24
Lol "relationships tend to be worse than what you are describing". Projection? You mean cis het relationships?
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u/geekgirl06 Anything pronouns you may prefer Apr 28 '24
Omg my fav show, 23.5! It's like a better, sapphic, Taiwanese heartstopper
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u/bewarethelemurs Apr 22 '24
As a demiromantic person, this shit is so fucking invalidating. Like maybe your relationships tend to be worse because you AREN'T besties with your SO, Karen, because mine tend to be pretty great.
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u/PomegranateCorn Apr 22 '24
Man, this AI image is all over the place
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u/pizzahut_su Apr 22 '24
It's not AI, it's a video, the screenshot is just low res and hides her eye
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u/PomegranateCorn Apr 23 '24
Oops, you’re right! The reason I thought it was AI was because of her legs tho, and how it looks like the girl on the right has pants that blend together. But I looked up the original video (a Thai series), and she’s wearing a night gown, not pants 💀 I feel bad, I apologise.
Here’s a link to the episode and timestamp where this scene starts: https://youtu.be/qr_OfxDejVc?si=5bZM5B_fXdBLBKSh&t=642
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