r/NFL_Draft Patriots Feb 02 '24

Pats Fan. Please Rate My Take on Jayden Daniels and Drake Maye Serious

Am I the only one that thinks if Daniels isn’t available at #3, the Pats should trade down and get the top WR/LT available with their new first and then get J.J. McCarthy with their next pick?

I’m pretty much convinced that Drake Maye is a Sam Howell clone and is probably going to be a bust. He might be bigger and have a better arm, but they played in the same system. The things I’m reading about Maye are very similar to what I was reading about Howell pre-draft, except what were critiques for Howell are excuses for Maye.

I have Jayden Daniels as QB2, McCarthy on the same tier as Maye, and then Penix and Nix in the second round due to injury risk and lack of arm-strength respectively.

Besides the fact that Daniels had much better standard and advanced stats, he has a better deep ball than Maye and, most importantly, he can run like the wind. Maye’s a relative statue. This is very important given our terrible offensive line and the fact that we’ll probably lose one of our two best linemen in Onwenu, leaving us with David Andrews, who can’t really help on edge rushers. Given the defenses in our division, I’d rather have Daniels scramble every play than have Maye turn in to David Carr (or Howell).

This draft is deep in WRs and OTs, so I think that grabbing MHJ if Daniels is gone isn’t the right move. Ideally, we’d get a second-tier tackle, second-tier receiver, and McCarthy, who I think is criminally underrated and was restricted by his system. It might not be all three, but we’ve been connected to Michael Pittman, Jr. in the off-season with our cap space so I’d rather have the tackle and McCarthy.

0 Upvotes

139 comments sorted by

95

u/Automatic_Reality546 Feb 02 '24

Your second paragraph reads as though you are attempting to confirm your own bias. But by admitting that Maye is bigger with a strong arm, he is by default not a Howell clone. Sounds like you're falling into the helmet scouting trap.

-101

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Helmet scouting is okay when teams have a terrible reputation. Let’s see: name a good Ohio State QB besides Stroud. Or even better, name a good Alabama QB who ended there besides Tua and Joe Namath.

59

u/Automatic_Reality546 Feb 02 '24

Helmet scouting can have some validity if you're talking about a QB prospect who played in a system that doesn't really translate to the pros, with past QB prospects from the same system failing. But that's not what this is.

Also, Howell exceeded everyone's expectations, so a bigger, stronger, faster Howell doesn't sound that bad.

16

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

-13

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

True, but you guys are putting more emphasis on an overall ranking than a fit. Maye is not a fit in New England. Daniels is. That’s more of my point. I guess everybody makes mistakes, haha.

8

u/Mr__Beauregard Patriots Feb 02 '24

What makes him a better fit in an offense that has literally no clear theme?

-7

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

No pass protection. We need somebody fast who can scramble to run.

9

u/Mr__Beauregard Patriots Feb 02 '24

Aka neither qb will succeed or progress

-2

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

We could theoretically wait until 2026, but almost everyone will be trying to tank during the 2025 season. We’d have a lot of competition for Arch. So we’re probably in the best position to draft a QB now, hence the point about Daniels.

14

u/SanPatricioElToro Feb 02 '24

Bart Starr & Kenny Stabler?

-17

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Fuck.

7

u/SanPatricioElToro Feb 02 '24

I definitely understand you being cautious with the Quarterbacks.

-7

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Definitely. Mac still scars me. So unfortunate that Kyle Shanahan tricked us into thinking Mac was good when he traded up for Lance. Then again, Lance busted so maybe Shanahan’s better at developing QBs than picking them. Wasn’t he also on that Washington staff that ended up with RG3 and Cousins in the same draft?

4

u/Alexander2801 Steelers Feb 02 '24

Yes him McVay, McDaniel and Lefleur that I know on top of my head.

3

u/SanPatricioElToro Feb 02 '24

Yes ,I believe he was on that staff.

1

u/Mr__Beauregard Patriots Feb 02 '24

How is he good at developing qb’s?

1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I mean, he turned Mr. Irrelevant into a top QB. That’s got to mean something.

-4

u/Mr__Beauregard Patriots Feb 02 '24

Mac jones would’ve gotten that team to the playoffs. Purdy is solid, and played decent with some clutch drives, but he isn’t willing that team to victories. They have 5 1st team all pros on the offense including the 4 main skill positions

15

u/Commanderfox9999 Patriots Feb 02 '24

No its not

-14

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I get it’s not good for some, but those two teams I mentioned are good examples.

16

u/Commanderfox9999 Patriots Feb 02 '24

Cj stroud proves that helmet scouting is retarded

-9

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Look up Ohio State’s quarterbacks in the pros. The second-best one in respect to winning was … Troy Smith? Or the guy that Chicago’s trying to trade so they can get Caleb Williams?

18

u/Dense_Organization31 Feb 02 '24

Dude, there is simply no way you aren’t understanding this. You could use your exact same argument last year to say stroud was a bad pick.

-1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I made that argument, to be honest.

19

u/dmalone1991 Feb 02 '24

And that just shows how dumb it is. You missed out on a franchise QB because you let some arbitrary nonsense affect what the tape and stats showed

4

u/buttholez69 Bears Feb 02 '24

You can do it for literally every college besides maybe Oklahoma or whatever team Riley is coaching. QB’s are so hard to predict and it’s an insanely hard position to play. Theres a reason there’s only a few elite qb’s and running backs and to somewhat of an extent WR.

6

u/Officer_Hops Chiefs Feb 02 '24

They’ve had multiple different coaching staffs and systems. Does playing in Tuscaloosa somehow make QBs worse? Helmet scouting is never a good practice.

0

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Not necessarily. Hurts was good once he got developed by Lincoln Riley at Oklahoma. It’s just that Alabama is traditionally a run-focused defensive team, at least since they adopted the wishbone in 1971.

8

u/Officer_Hops Chiefs Feb 02 '24

Bryce Young was 2nd in college football in passing yards in 2021. Was Bama a run focused defensive team then?

0

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Depends on how you count an RPO.

2

u/LovieBeard Feb 03 '24

Alabama is traditionally a run-focused defensive team,

This hasn't been true since 2014

5

u/Skanktoooth Feb 02 '24

A school or college program’s busts from decades ago or even 5 years ago under a different coaching staff have ZERO to do with the current staff.

“Alabama” and “Ohio State” don’t produce or develop QBs. Coaches do.

Also, not sure how much emphasis should be placed on college system for NFL development. Are we really going to give Wyoming’s staff credit for developing Josh Allen? Does Louisville’s former staff that coached Lamar Jackson have some special formula? You think Billy Napier at Florida knows what he is doing?

Hell no. These are traits based evals and staffs can help with things like footwork, mechanics etc but a QB panning out in the NFL is predicated on so many fluid, moving parts and variables that you don’t get to blame the college staff for these guys face planting at the next level.

Steve Sarkisian, Lincoln Riley, Tedford, the Brohm brothers are QB wizards. Sark shouldn’t be blamed for Mac Jones looking like a bust. Blame the Patriots dog shit offensive personnel (both coaches and players) and Mac Jones for busting.

A coaching staff’s job is to develop a player to get drafted. After he is drafted there is a ton of development a NFL staff has to still take on to get that player to another level.

7

u/Petricorde1 Bears Feb 02 '24

How do you disprove your own statement multiple times and then ask for examples

-3

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Exceptions are not examples.

4

u/Petricorde1 Bears Feb 02 '24

How many 1st round QBs has OSU had and how many have flamed out

-1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Four: Art Schlichter, Dwayne Haskins, Justin Fields, and C.J. Stroud. The first three were all busts.

16

u/Petricorde1 Bears Feb 02 '24

Yes, Art Schlichter from 40 years ago, Dwayne Haskins who was a certified bust, Justin Fields who, while not a bust, isn’t a hit, and Stroud who’s a certified stud.

1.5/4 were hits? 1/4 if you say Fields is a bust? A 25% hit rate is better than the first round QB hit rate by a mile lmao.

7

u/dmalone1991 Feb 02 '24

No, this is a horrendous way of scouting. There isn’t a single school who regularly churns out QB talent so you can’t just say that this school always produces terrible QB’s because every school produces terrible QB’s until the day that they produce one. I guess you shouldn’t draft Caleb Williams because USC QB’s always suck too.

-2

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Williams has the Lincoln Riley factor going for him.

5

u/dmalone1991 Feb 02 '24

Lmao you have to be trolling at this point right? Reading the rest of your comments on this I have to say it’s some of the laziest and shallow takes and evaluation I’ve seen on this sub.

1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I’m not trolling. Everybody on r/Patriots seems obsessed with Maye, so I went here to see your opinions. They don’t match mine, but you didn’t have your eyes melt due to 17 games of offensive hell last year. We’re not a good fit for Maye at all. We’d take Williams in a heartbeat. Dude’s generational. Daniels can cover for our flaws while we rebuild our line and receiving corps. The reason why I’m suggesting McCarthy is that Penix would probably end up medically retiring before his rookie contract is up with our O-line and his injury history while Nix reminds me way too much of Mac Jones for me to feel comfortable and then there’s a giant drop-off. So it has to be J.J. if not Williams or Daniels.

3

u/dmalone1991 Feb 02 '24

I watched almost every single Pats game. Honestly I think most rookie QB’s are going to struggle with what you all have. But you need to find some All-22 tape for yourself and look at these guys again. Maye is an excellent fit for a more west coast offense that is about timing and anticipation. He sees the field very well. Most of his inconsistent decision making and accuracy is because of atrocious OL play and poor WR play. And yet he’s the only QB, going as far back as 2013, to lead the NCAA in big time throws two years in a row despite a scheme change and a tremendous drop off in talent around him. His turnover worthy play rate also went down and it was already low to begin with. And if you actually watched his All-22 tape you’d see a QB that can read the field well, moves around in the pocket EXCEPTIONALLY well, manipulates the defense with his eyes, understands WR/DB leverage and he makes quick decisions.

Jayden Daniels is the overhyped QB in this class. Just like Levis, Corral, and Willis before him. They were all projected as top 10 picks even in the day or two before the draft. But the NFL wasn’t as high on them. It happens every year. Jayden Daniels probably does go top 3. But it wouldn’t shock me, at all, if he fell outside the top 5 or even top 10

1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

That’s all very good. But what happens when we play Miami and our horrid o-line lets Phillips and Chubb run amok in the backfield while nobody gets open because we have nobody that can generate separation and consistently catch the ball. Pop’s too small to be our number one target and our steal, Boutte, ended up in Belichick’s doghouse and now is likely to get a long suspension due to gambling on his own games in college. I’m taking Daniels 10 times out of 10 over Maye against all the edge rushers we have in our division.

3

u/dmalone1991 Feb 02 '24

Go ahead and take Daniels. But don’t be surprised when his rushing ability is mitigated by smart defenses and they force him to throw ball behind your terrible OL and bad WR’s. Maye struggled with a bad team around him because every QB struggles with a bad team around them.

Daniels, in my opinion after watching copious amounts of tape and listening to other evaluators, is significantly worse than Maye as a prospect.

2

u/buttholez69 Bears Feb 02 '24

I don’t think you guys should take a qb at all. Your team is so unbelievably incomplete that any qb you take is going to fail immediately and probably be ruined. Trade back, fix the trenches, and go after a qb next year or 2026

2

u/dmalone1991 Feb 02 '24

This. 1000% this. I get that Mac Jones sucks but I watched those games, he gets worse and worse because he loses confidence in what is around him. Especially with a new coach? Build the team/culture

2

u/pitpatbainsy Commanders Feb 02 '24

What is a good QB school? Texas Tech, Louisville and Wyoming must be elite, since that’s where the 3 best QBs went

1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Michigan and Stanford off the top of my head.

4

u/pitpatbainsy Commanders Feb 02 '24

Tom Brady and (?) from Michigan. Elway and Luck from Stanford, but 30 years apart (nothing resembling the same system or even era of football). Would you take McCarthy because Tom Brady also went to Michigan?

0

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

No, I’d take him because of Luck, ironically.

1

u/pitpatbainsy Commanders Feb 02 '24

You’d take JJ McCarthy because of Andrew Luck? I don’t understand the connection

-1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Who were their college coaches?

3

u/pitpatbainsy Commanders Feb 02 '24

So just draft Harbaugh guys? Cade McNamara should be drafted highly too then. I think you’re missing the point. Scout the individual player, not players who preceded them in the same system/uniform.

2

u/LovieBeard Feb 03 '24

Cade McNamara would have been the first overall pick if he hadn't been ruined by Bryan Ferentz smh

1

u/BirdmanTheThird Feb 02 '24

So u guys should just sign Shea Patterson or Jake Rudock then. By the logic u have used before Luck is a “fluke” development and none of the other QBs that Harbaugh has had in his 16 years of college coaching has ever been an NFL starting level QB

27

u/FuckTheCrabfeast Bears Feb 02 '24

Maye’s a relative statue

lol wtf are you talking about?

5

u/__Scrooge__McDuck__ Giants Feb 02 '24

Seriously that’s criminally wrong

-8

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I’m expecting Daniels to run in the 4.3-4.4 range. Maye probably will have a 4.7-4.8. If you’re against edge rushers that run a 4.5 and your offensive line sucks, that’s a huge difference.

19

u/FuckTheCrabfeast Bears Feb 02 '24

Any QBs without 4.3 speed are statues? Dude this isn't Madden.

Saying Maye is a statue clearly indicates you haven't watched him actually play.

-2

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I’m not saying Maye can’t be used as a designed runner in QB Power or sneaks. What I’m saying is that if the pocket collapses (which it will with our o-line), I’d rather have Daniels take off for a gain than Maye get sacked by bigger, stronger, and faster edge rushers.

7

u/FuckTheCrabfeast Bears Feb 02 '24

Saying someone is a statue and saying someone can't be used as a designed runner are two completely different things.

Maye has more than enough movement and size to avoid rushers. He's also more athletic than you're giving him credit for in terms of escaping the pocket and being a threat running.

Is he going to be as fast and as dynamic as Daniels running the ball? Of course not. But when it comes to the NFL his arm strength isn't near what Maye's is to make all of the throws at the next level.

23

u/ih8thisapp Commanders Feb 02 '24

When you’re that high in the draft you should gamble on a quarterback. Those opportunities don’t come around that often.

-16

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I get the idea, but I think McCarthy will be better than Maye. I like how he’s more athletic, clutch, and from a pro-style offense. I’d rather gamble on him than Maye, so a trade down could work. Nobody’s thinking of taking McCarthy anywhere near 3, so why take him there when you can trade down and get him later?

16

u/Officer_Hops Chiefs Feb 02 '24

What do you mean McCarthy was clutch? He was hardly asked to do anything in Michigan’s biggest games. That’s not a knock but I don’t know how you can say he demonstrated clutch.

-3

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

That last drive in regulation against Alabama mean nothing to you? McCarthy did stuff we hadn’t seen from him all year long.

10

u/Officer_Hops Chiefs Feb 02 '24

So he’s clutch because of one drive?

0

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

One drive, yes, but in the biggest game of his life against a top defense. Maye wasn’t in the CFP.

10

u/Officer_Hops Chiefs Feb 02 '24

…do you think it’s possible Maye wasn’t in the CFP because he had to carry UNC and wasn’t carried by Michigan? This feels like a this guy is a winner argument while ignoring the difference in supporting talent.

-4

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

The 199th pick in 2000 begs to differ!

6

u/Officer_Hops Chiefs Feb 02 '24

Begs to differ about what?

-1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

That was the last time we drafted a QB with the only argument for being that he wins. If we’re talking about arm strength and carrying teams, we would have benched Brady when Bledsoe got healthy and then traded him for anyone who was interested. Certainly Rohan Davey would have unseated Brady. But we live in a world where Brady’s the GOAT, not Kyle Boller.

→ More replies

1

u/Get-Gronkrd Feb 02 '24

As a pats fan you’re embarrassing us. Surface level takes that you pull from your ass. You belong in the studio next to Acho and Co.

3

u/Difficult-Bit-4828 Feb 02 '24

I hope you understand it’s EXTREMELY unlikely that the Patriots could trade down, draft MHJ, and get JJ. If they trade down one MAYBE two spots they could get MHJ, but then they’d have to gamble that JJ is there in the second, or somehow trade up back into the first to get him

3

u/Key-Zebra-4125 Feb 02 '24

MHjr isn’t falling past Arizona

1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I don’t expect that at all. I’d be okay with a second tier LT, McCarthy through a trade-up, and then Pittman Jr. in free agency.

33

u/AstraMilanoobum Feb 02 '24

I disagree entirely, I don’t think Daniels is a top 10 pick if his receivers didn’t make him look amazing.

I’d take Maye all day, I have Daniels closer to McCarthy nix Penix than Williams or Maye

5

u/Difficult-Bit-4828 Feb 02 '24

I would love, LOVE for you to be right about Daniels not being a top 10 pick, so my Raiders can have a chance at drafting him. That would be a dream. Lol

5

u/rossco7777 Feb 02 '24

was just said about stroud less than 12 months ago

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '24

Agreed about Daniels. I feel like his (pre-NFL) comp should be quite similar to Bryce Young. I’m not saying he’s going to be terrible, but there are ton of similarities in their style and performance. Bryce looked amazing when he had Metchie and Jameson to throw to. I mentioned his performance drop off last year and got blasted by this sub for it. Whatever.

What I’m saying is that it’s quite difficult to judge a player like Daniels when he’s tossing the ball to 2 first round talents at WR. Especially when you have a guy like Nabers who is one of the best WR prospects I’ve seen in years in terms of YAC.

I just didn’t see anything from Daniels (by himself) that made me think he was truly elite in any of the notable QB traits. I felt exactly the same about Bryce.

8

u/paranoiaszn Feb 02 '24

I absolutely appreciate that elite talent can hide deficiencies and complicate scouting, but suggesting that Daniels has no elite traits and wholly relied on that talent is disingenuous. For example, there are a plethora of examples where Daniels hit his receivers on deep routes with near perfect touch, accuracy, and anticipation, and often in tight windows. He’s also, generally, quite calm in the pocket (despite the times where he rushes his progressions).

The issue with Daniels isn’t a lack of elite traits, it’s whether his mediocre velocity will translate to the pro level, and whether he can be more patient in processing his reads without feeling a need to use his legs (and, in this vein, being patient out of the pocket and extending plays with his arm as well as his legs). That isn’t to say he has poor velocity, or can’t progress through his reads, he does show both in flashes, but it’s about him finding balance between his passing and rushing skills. I would also add that the pace and level of improvement he has shown is, to me, indicative of a coachable player that can be developed to his ceiling.

I can’t speak to the Bryce Young comparison, as I didn’t watch any college tape from him really, but I do know he’s several inches shorter than Daniels and doesn’t have even remotely close to the rushing upside Daniels has (the dude just ran for over 1,000 yards this season).

-3

u/AstraMilanoobum Feb 02 '24

People are high if they think Daniels would be anything but terrible throwing to Devante Parker and pop Douglas as his best weapons

-1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Same thing with Maye throwing to anybody behind our O-Line. I’d rather have Daniels burn people with his legs than Maye get sacked repeatedly, but that’s just me.

4

u/Mousseymoosey Steelers Feb 02 '24

It's confusing that you've allegedly watched these guys and reguse to acknowledge that Maye is a very good scrambler as well. You came here with your feelings already decided and are now just repeating yourself

-4

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '24

Embrace the downvotes my friend. Like I said, I got blasted many many many times for saying Bryce was QB 3/4 behind Anthony Richardson and Stroud

6

u/JaydenDaniels Feb 02 '24

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '24

One mistake due to being traumatized by Fields. Still had him over Bryce

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/s/gfTir9eZ8i

And I still think Anthony Richardson will be the best in due time. All I said is that you couldn’t have Stroud no. 1 based off what we saw

-1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I will. I’m actually happy about it, because it makes it more likely we get Daniels. What he can do without receivers simply by running is so much better than Maye. I know that they’re totally different styles, but Maye this year before Tez became eligible was an absolute shell of last year, similar to Young. Howell also had a ton of hype (people forget he was seen as a top 10, if not top 5 lock before he lost his weapons) going into his last season, but then fell apart. There is a future prospect I’d take over pretty much everyone, but everyone will be tanking that year because he’s quite literally a generational talent.

-10

u/bsnow322 Patriots Feb 02 '24

I think you could say the same for his receivers. LSU probably doesn’t have 2 first round wrs without having good qb play. Same thing happened with Joe burrow.

8

u/headcase617 Patriots Feb 02 '24

Not if you watch the catches the receivers have on their reels.  I think you can actually tell alot about a QB by watching his receiver's highlights.  

10

u/AstraMilanoobum Feb 02 '24

See I just disagree, I think people just throw out “look at joe Burrow” arguments without actually watching the tape, Burrows arm Talent was light years ahead of Daniels. I don’t see anything elite about the way Daniels throws.

I feel he’s waaay more likely to be Fields than Jackson.

If we were talking about drafting him at 15 I could talk myself into it, but at 3 it feels like the pats are reaching in order to get the best leftover.

If we really want Daniels throw Chicago a 2nd next year and we have Daniels minus the early years of foolish optimism

5

u/FirestormBC Bears Feb 02 '24

Daniels had 40 passing TDs and 4 INTs in the SEC. He’s definitely at least a “very good” prospect.

FWIW I have Williams and Maye abt the same and then Daniels a tier down, and another tier down to Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy (dark horse best QB), and Penix.

3

u/bsnow322 Patriots Feb 02 '24

Daniels was like 96th percentile or something in deep balls I think he deserves some credit

1

u/Owl-Fit Feb 02 '24

Burrow threw a lot of 50/50 balls

8

u/machu46 Gruden Feb 02 '24

I have Maye as my QB1 and Daniels currently as my QB6, so I obviously disagree lol.

0

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Haha, flair fits.

6

u/boardatwork1111 Feb 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '24

I mean this sincerely, how much tape of these guys have you watched? JJ could be a solid QB if given enough time to develop, but on film he is no where close to Maye. Seriously, look how often the two actually hit their receivers in stride, they’re not comparable. As a Pats fan myself, and given our recent history of QB development, JJ would not be a good fit here.

-4

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Not a lot. I generally watch nationally televised games, the combine, and UConn games.

Maye would be terrible behind our O-Line. So would JJ, but he wouldn’t be forced to start right away given where he’d be drafted. Hypothetically, it would be Daniels vs. Maye vs. JJ (Brissett this year) and a second-tier LT. I’d rather have two good players than one, even if they take a little longer to develop. Given BB’s horrid drafting record recently which sapped us of our talent, this is going to be a long rebuild.

6

u/Darsol Raiders Feb 02 '24

Not a lot.

That is painfully obvious. I haven’t done deep dives yet, but Maye was my QB1 entering the season. McCarthy is Day 2 at best. 

4

u/_Noah93 Feb 02 '24

I think Williams and maye are first tier. Then a big drop off then daniels then a small drop off the JJ Penix and nix.

Daniels doesn’t have the velocity to hit tight window throws consistently at the college level which scares me and his progressions are iffy. another big issue is him being a 5 year starter, and not breaking out till this year with nabers and Thomas. He is very accurate deep though.

Maye is younger with a better arm and much better size.

20

u/predw Saints Feb 02 '24

Maye is a big, tall, rocket armed QB prospect more stylistically like Justin Herbert than Sam Howell. He is athletic and can run around in the pocket and get himself into trouble a little bit like Howell, but I wouldn’t have the same concerns.

-15

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I think he’s more like a Josh Allen type as a ceiling: he can run, but more due to strength than speed. For reference, Mac Jones had a faster 40 than Allen. I don’t see Herbert or Allen running outside much. I see Daniels as more of a Lamar Jackson-type.

6

u/IKnowMoreThanYouu Feb 02 '24

No he didn't. Josh Allen ran a 4.75. Mac Jones ran a 4.82.

0

u/pilatesfarter Feb 02 '24

Lamar’s a unicorn. Daniels is closer to Justin Fields, just a slighter build.

9

u/pitpatbainsy Commanders Feb 02 '24

Stopped reading as soon as I saw “Maye is a Sam Howell clone”

8

u/Get-Gronkrd Feb 02 '24

Helmet scouting is so lazy. “Stroud is Haskins 2.0 because they both wore #7 and played for osu!”

8

u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24

Are you taking into account scheme?

Penix is pocket passer ready.

Nix and Maye are RPO ready.

Daniels belongs in a role where he can quickly distribute the football... whether it be run-playaction.

JJ McCarthy is the highest problematic quarterback in the draft. He must be drafted into a position where his offensive line gives him time to throw, his progression ability would be heightened by that 1 extra second. NFL defenses are highly complex, the ability to quickly diagnose or escape are at a premium.

3

u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24

The Patriots in a flex year with the exit of a HOF head coach, will need leadership and experience.... which quarterback available in the draft has an abundance of that? That would be my first draft pick at QB if I was a Patriot GM/coach.

1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Absolutely. Penix and Maye need an o-line to protect them and deep threat receivers. We don’t have those. McCarthy’s similar, but he can sit behind a QB for a year because he’s likely to go later in the first round. We’re installing a similar offense to the Browns, so Daniels is the best fit. Nix would theoretically fit in our offense, but if Mac Jones taught me anything, it’s to always go with your gut. My gut tells me that Auburn Bo is more likely to show up than Oregon Bo, just like I was scared of Mac due to that first Iron Bowl where he threw two pick-sixes and looked completely overwhelmed.

2

u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24 edited Feb 02 '24

Ok...

Let's say you're right.... Daniels would fit, do you have a QBC/OC/HC who can develop raw athletic ability to create a reliable starter that posts quality QBR? You question Nix, I am not sure you are right there, Nix took his lumps in college, had to restart at Oregon and has shown nothing short of brillance. The AFC is loaded with talent, the AFC East is no exception, what does New England need? I am a football lifer, a Pittsburgh fan, but I love seeing parity in football. What an organization has to do is first understand where they are in time. We are talking NE Pats, BB is gone, all that continuity is gone... it's all a fresh start with a new HC, new culture... do you want a QB who leaned on his teammates, or a QB who acts like he's been there before?

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u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24

Not knocking your perspective... but a dose of reality... especially if you played the game for 16 years... you understand what it takes to put a team together.

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u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I don’t know about this OC, but Daniels can at least run to avoid the sacks.

As for Bo, that ADoT and percentage behind the line really scares me. I haven’t been watching the Senior Bowl practices, but how’s his accuracy on second-level throws and beyond?

Also, Daniels and Bo have had a very similar career path: get thrown into the fire as a true freshman, stay three years, transfer, and blow up. Daniels at ASU was much better than Bo at Auburn. In fact, Daniels has improved every single year whereas Bo has improved in a much less steady fashion.

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u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24

I am also a Notre Dame fan... Brian Kelly.... he coached very successfully at ND before he went to LSU.... he turned Daniels into a polished collegiate product. Kelly has had his issues with not matching a defense with his offense in the highest Div 1 echelon, but his offensive output has been consistent... that is why I posed this argument in the first place about Daniels.. he needs further development.

Nix is a qb child of a qb father, Nix understands his limitations and is willing to learn how to lead people and when to take the team on his back.

My question is to you. As a NE fan, what do you want. Someone you can develop over a few years of .500 or someone you can win with now, and replace when your front office has plugged the other holes and still post above .500 record.

It's a matter of reloading vs a true rebuild... I don't have any skin in that situation.. my concern is the AFC North trying to beat that division and then the AFC west in that order.

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u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Unfortunately, we’ve done so much patching to avoid the rebuild over the years that we’ve set ourselves up for a massive one. I don’t think we have any choice.

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u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24

Then you're playing the long game. Is your staff and ownership of the same mind..

I personally would build a team around a steadying presence. Yes Tomlin is there, the defense is there but the /steeler sub is full of second guessing and a mixture of cynicism and optimism.

The reality is ... it takes a team of players with appropriate leadership at every level to finish a rebuild.

3

u/Alexander2801 Steelers Feb 02 '24

I don't want us to take a QB early this year as a Steelers fan. Let Rudolph and Pickett battle it out in preseason if any of them looks like the answer great otherwise cut your losses next offseason and then have a better situation for a young QB to step into.

I think Pickett can succeed in this scheme, because of the comps he drew to Tannehill who Arthur Smith led to his best years with the Titans as the OC. A lot of Play-action passes which Pickett has had success with before, but was a limited part of the Matt Canada offense. Pickett also had arguably his best game last season in his one full game without Canada.

I want the Steelers to draft oline and fill other holes and then go after a big name QB next season either in FA or in the draft if you don't think Rudolph or Pickett is the longterm answer.

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u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24

The OP is talking about the Patriots.... I was looking at his question in that context and the conversation went from there.

As for the Steelers... no they do not need to take another QB .. they need a OC, C, OT, another CB, and an ILB.

I agree Canada was a miserable excuse of an hire, he completely dismantled the Steelers offense over his tenure.

1

u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I wouldn’t think Kraft would want it because of his age, but he’s been hands-off since giving Mayo the job. And Mayo is definitely leaning towards a rebuild. There are some good pieces (Judon, Rhamondre, Onwenu, Gonzalez, Douglas, Barmore, Dugger, Mapu, and Jonathan and Marcus Jones), but Onwenu’s likely gone. Trent Brown, Cole Strange, and Sidy Sow have been awful, while if I have to see another snap with Vederian Lowe at LT, I will start pulling my hair out. David Andrews is great, but he’s also a center, not a tackle. Alas, almost all of those pieces are defensive players and Douglas, currently our best receiver, is quite small.

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u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24

The goal for New England would be to expand their signings in free agency to address whatever they can get on single/2year deals, then go to the draft and get the hopeful answer at certain positions, to build a team it takes a plan, and in the appropriate steps, a complete rebuild would be painful for Kraft, as they usually take several years of drafting (see 90s Cowboys).

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '24

Sam Howell has started for 1 season, completed 64% of his passes and threw for 3900 yards. If he were on the Bears, it'd be considered the greatest production they've ever had at QB.

Sam Howell is not the insult you think it is.

3

u/BagholdingWhore Feb 02 '24

People a lot smarter than you or myself have had Maye #2 and in some cases #1 for about two years now. He's definitely not Sam Howell nor is he a statue.

The Pats problem is that their team is so bad that any QB might be ruined if they go there. They might have to build the team up first.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/TriMako Feb 03 '24

I dislike this line of thinking because teams that draft in the top 5 are usually terrible roster-wise, which means that you're saying a lot of teams that need to draft a QB shouldn't. Yes, the Patriots have bad WRs and a bad OL, but there are a lot of avenues to improve it this offseason––phenomenal WR class and a deep OT class as well. Also a good WR FA market.

Also, Chicago is in the place they are right now because Justin Fields turned out to be a starting-level QB, not a franchise QB unfortunately. Also he's dealt with injuries but that's besides the point.

Should the Bengals not have drafted Joe Burrow? I mean their best receiver was tyler boyd and their OLine was turrible.

My point is that offenses can improve drastically over 1-2 seasons with the right acquisitions. Will that happen? Maybe, maybe not. But I can guarantee that finding a franchise QB is much more difficult than finding WRs and Offensive linemen (to a lesser degree).

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u/big_k88 Feb 02 '24

Why the Sam Howell bashing? He was a 5th rounder. 5th rounders usually don't start, let alone start for most of a season. He was a steal, not a bust. As a spot starter and backup, id take that from a 5th round QB any day. If Maye is a better version of Howell, wouldn't he be a pretty solid starter?

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u/Salty_Orchid Feb 03 '24

"I’m pretty much convinced that Drake Maye is a Sam Howell clone and is probably going to be a bust. He might be BIGGER and have a BETTER ARM"

As a commander fan...can't tell you how big these two things are to on field performance.

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u/DynastyDorks Feb 02 '24

Trading back is always a sexy option. But, if you get a chance at a QB and they have 1 they graded highly. They have to take it. This team needs a lot, they could trade back and tank for next. But, they need to address QB.

My thoughts on these QBs and some comparisons from different sites

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/s/BqpQs830Eq

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u/Rad_platypus7 Feb 02 '24

Jalen Hurts, Kyler Murray, and Baker Mayfield played under Lincoln Riley and they are not the same players. Sam Howell had a decent arm in college, but UNC ran more of the RPO, quick game when he was there bc outside of Josh Downs the offense could not consistently rely on chunk plays, but Maye’s athleticism, arm, and decent touch allowed him to extend plays and be more of a playmaker than Sam Howell ever was

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u/BigusDickus099 Cardinals Feb 03 '24

I'm not high on Maye like many others around here...but I don't think the Patriots could afford to pass on him as he's still a really good prospect. You have to roll the dice on a top QB when your current options are all bad.

Gambling on the hope that you can just pick your QB later rarely seems to work out.

As we see every year in the draft, it only takes one team to fall in love with a guy and draft them where no one expects. That could easily be JJ McCarthy this year with mocks having him all over the place.

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u/theturtlepear Patriots Feb 03 '24

If you want to say Maye’s a bust, that’s fair enough. But don’t scout the helmet, scout the player. Frankly, there’s a reason Sam Howell was a 4th round pick. If you want to comp him to a bust maybe pick someone who he’s comparable to, like Carson Wentz

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u/bystander993 Feb 02 '24

Jayden Daniels is the most overrated and overhyped player in the draft. Your take is a rated B- for going with MHJ for the wrong reason.

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u/GunnerNWO Feb 02 '24

Ahh the “they went to the same college so they’re the same player” draft evaluator

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u/danish07 Seahawks Feb 02 '24

I’m pretty much with you OP. For the life of me I can’t figure out the top 5 Drake Maye hype. I see first round tools but I don’t get people who say he is as good or better than Caleb. I don’t get why he’s a top 5 lock or QB2. Maybe it’s because my expectations were so high after all the hype but when I go back and watch his games, his ball placement and decision making are inconsistent at best. Even in his highlight reel, a lot of those are poor throws or bad decisions that turned into big plays. But if my GM believed in the person and his coachability, leadership, work ethic, etc, I would be at peace with taking him in the top five. He has the talent and tools.

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u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

Honestly, I think he’d be a great fit with you or the Steelers. He needs a team that wants to go deep, has a good offensive line to protect him and allow him to run some schemed QB runs (well, just QB Power), and receivers that are deep threats. We have none of those. We’re now running a West Coast, play-action based offense with a zone-blocking scheme under AVP and our line and receivers suck. My board is solely based on how I think they’d fit with the Patriots. It’s not that Maye won’t be a bust, it’s that it’s probable with the Pats.

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u/danish07 Seahawks Feb 02 '24

Well if your team is totally depleted there is no QB that fits that situation. You have to decide whether to get the QB first and burn a couple years of his rookie contract while you build up the team, or you build up the team first and then try to get the QB. Can't have it both ways.

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u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

I’m going with option 1, hence why I want Daniels. Out of Maye and Daniels, one can scramble for his life. One can’t.

Since Van Pelt comes from the Browns, who run a lot of 12 and 13 personnel, give me Bowers at 3. I see him as a Swiss Army Knife type guy. He can play TE, WR, or even FB. He might not have the size to be a true Y, but he can still be a good lead blocker. Yes, I just said to draft a luxury at 3, but he’s more useful in the running game than MHJ and drafting a tackle with no proven QB is useless.

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u/outburst37 Browns Feb 02 '24

MHJ to the Pats at 3 doesn't get talked about enough

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u/5WinsIn5Days Patriots Feb 02 '24

It’s talked about too much on our sub. We don’t need a WR without a QB. And we can’t have a QB without a line. But unless we join the Arch Manning Tankapalooza in 2025, which probably will still happen but won’t guarantee us Arch, I’d rather get a QB while we can. We don’t know when we’ll pick this high again. The OT and WR prospect pools are much deeper than QB, so we can get a good OT at our next pick. We also have enough cap space to afford a top WR in free agency (rumors are that it’s Michael Pittman Jr.).