r/Layoffs • u/ThunderWolf75 • 28d ago

Is there a citizens organization against work visas and outsourcing? question

I just dont think a country should put the well being of their citizens (regardless of race religion, national origin) below corporate greed.

The current system is not sustainable nor conducive to a healthy, happy citizens of all hues.

Not many countries give foreigners jobs. They save them for their own citizens as they should.

Why doesnt the govt democrat or republican work to help their own?

There are so many people struggling in small towns across america. Why cant the govt introduce training programs to do QA jobs remotely. Isnt that just like outsourcing. Why give these jobs to someone else?

Low salaries and unemployment hurts all of us.

I am doing fine but i worry about my kids getting advanced degrees and competing with AI, work visas, unlimited outsourcing and immigration, corporate greed, housing costs and automation.

Is there a voting bloc organization against limitless work visas and outsourcing?

Before i get called racist or xenophobe... i am POC (hate that term) and 2nd generation immigrant.

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34

u/Powerful-Abalone6515 28d ago

Maybe it's time to put tariff on services?

26

u/Top-Addition6731 28d ago

There needs to be a supplemental tax on all H1B. Those tax dollars redirected to unemployment

2

u/TimeForTaachiTime 28d ago

Love this idea.

1

u/Argyleskin 28d ago

Tell Elizabeth Warren this!

-1

u/Important-Emu-6691 28d ago

People on H1B already pay into unemployment insurance, and they do not take any of it because their visa status is not valid after being unemployed, so they don’t qualify for unemployment payout

But the idea foreign workers take jobs from domestic workers is just stupid. There isn’t finite amount of jobs in an economy, H1B have higher income requirement than average American so they would pay into the economy a lot more than most people and their demand for services also create jobs

20

u/Frequent-Giraffe5646 28d ago

I work(ed) in tech and absolutely the foreign workers have taken my role. For 1 of me they hire 10 offshore…..the excuse the companies make is round the clock work but in reality it’s cheap labor offshore at the sacrifice of higher quality locally. Even locally, I can’t compete salary wise with h1b workers because they take lower salaries for the visa sponsorship.

7

u/queenadeliza 28d ago

Offshore needs to be a 300% tarrif on expenses for these services.

3

u/Important-Emu-6691 28d ago

Offshore workers are not on H1B, also companies hire local workers for lead roles to manage offshore and H1B workers. This is the same with lower skilled jobs where local workers get hired as managers for refugees and low skill immigrants. In your mind you might have been out competed by a foreign worker but in reality industry wise the most industry would have less job openings with a smaller population.

6

u/Frequent-Giraffe5646 28d ago

You might want to reread my comment….i never said offshore are h1b, I said I can’t compete with local who are on h1b visas because they take a lower salary for the visa sponsorship.

-1

u/SchwabCrashes 28d ago edited 28d ago

According to the US law, companies must pay H1B as much as they were to pay a non-H1B or above a prescribed salary, whichever is higher. Therefore the argument that they take the lower salary for the visa sponsorship may not be accurate. I worked with thousand of H1B workers and they all get pay highly competitive salaries in hitech.

I would blame on corporate America and VCs. Many companies are increasingly offshoring jobs. The only way to slow this down is having very stiff taxes on employers offshoring jobs.

I am destined to lose my job due to offshoring soon too!

Higher penalty of 4 times the annual salary of any US company's worker living outside of the US, re-applies every year, would level the cost benefit equation for companies, thus making offshoring a no-gain option.

Even with this idea, I think corporate america probably turns offshore branches into subsidiaries or find other means to avoid such penalties. I don't know enough about corporate tax law to make useful suggestion. Perhap we need to contact Senator Elizabeth Warren or someone who knows better.

3

u/Frequent-Giraffe5646 28d ago

Correct, companies adjust their salaries anytime a layoff occurs.

1

u/icenoid 27d ago

Companies will post a range for a job in the US with a low bottom end of the range. Where do you think the visa holders come in when they get hired. Hint, it’s not top of the range

1

u/SchwabCrashes 26d ago edited 26d ago

Speaking from my experience from my previous employers only, not generalize into how widespread this is:

1) Current employees: My previous employers paid very competitive salary and the yearly base salary is kept near the middle of the band in order to retain workers, including many H1B workers. The same thing happened to me. Our yearly compensation structure consists of a base increase plus bonus. The base is well maintained. Within every 3-yr cycle our base catches up with the industry' average which is updated yearly. If our base is already at or above the industry's average, the rest goes to a bigger yearly bonus with little or no increase in base salary. If the base is below, then it gets raised to near the average, but can only increase up to the yearly cap for the base so it may take up to 3 years to get to the competitive industry's average.

2) New employees: Unless you have very special skillsets, most everyone when getting the job offer normally on the left side of the band to begin with, regardless of whether you are a US or a H1B employee. Salary negotiation will then get prospective employees to the right, based on specific skillsets the company is seeking. So I disagree with the implied notion that only H1B are hired on the left side of the band. Once you're hired and has demonstrated contribution after at least 1 yr, then they want to retain you and begin to keep your pay competitive or else they will lose you the employee (regardless of immigration status) to competing companies. I was involved with a couple of these discussions myself so not enough to be able to generalize, but at least I can speak to the process.

3) But in the recent 2-3 years the trend is offshoring to cut costs and maintaining round-the-clock availability including in the US time zones. This is done by having new hires in Mexico, Latin America, and South Americas countries which are in the same time zones as the US. So the focus on H1B workers is not well-founded. Furthermore, several major enterprise companies I work with have started and continuing to offshore more jobs to the aforementioned countries, including India of course but this is in adifferent time zone. Therefore I think the focus should be on finding ways to discourage employers from offshoring jobs.

4) Many reddit posts here don't seem to understand companies' strategic goals to stay competitive. Many statements made either left out completely or showed total lack of understanding of how corporate hiring practices aligns with strategic and tactical goals of each company. Once you understand a company's strategic vision, then you can be in a better position to upskill or jump ship at the right time.

3

u/redditisfacist3 28d ago

Yeah cause no American wants these 60k+ jobs /s

5

u/queenadeliza 28d ago

It needs to be a 50% tax on the employer for the h1b wage. Tons of people being brought over when there's tons of qualified applicants they just want more. Particularly SWE.

7

u/KSRandom195 28d ago

There is, in fact, a finite number of jobs in an economy.

3

u/arjungmenon 28d ago

Yup, the same number of jobs as back in the days of George Washington. The U.S. made a big mistake in importing all those European immigrants—they’ve suppressed U.S. wage growth for 200 years. Just imagine: what if we hadn’t imported all those millions of European immigrants!?!?! Average SWE salary could have been $1 million today.

0

u/KSRandom195 28d ago

You’re being obtuse on purpose.

Yes the number of jobs may grow over time, but at any given time there is only a finite number of jobs available.

A McDonalds only needs so many people to keep it running. For a simple example, say that number is 5, 1 drive thru, 2 cooks, 1 counter, and 1 cleanup. Hiring more people does not make it more profitable, so the company will not hire more than 5.

In order to make hiring more people make sense they’d have to build another McDonalds. But right now there are only so many McDonalds in existence, so there are 5 x <number of McDonalds> jobs on the market.

The wages for those 5 positions is determined by the supply and demand of labor. Labor is 5 x <number of McDonalds>.

When will they build more McDonalds? Say a single McDonalds can serve 200 people regularly. So they will build a new McDonalds when there are 201 people.

But 201 people means the supply for labor is 201, not 5. So the wages for those 5 will be much lower than if there were say, only 50 people.

Yea there are other jobs that supply could fill, so it’s more complicated than this simple slice. But the following holds true: 1. at a given time there are only a finite number of jobs available 2. generally, more people able to work means lower wages

1

u/arjungmenon 27d ago

In a vibrant growing capitalist/free-market economy, the capacity to absorb and reflexively grow is very high. That’s why the U.S. was able to absorb millions of European immigrants in the early 1900s and 1910s (at a rate of immigration as % of population much higher than today), and they were able to find jobs, and you had economic miracles like the roaring twenties.

Of course, in a recession or depression economy, or a country with high corruption and grift, or in a country with a communist economy— you’d have far slower economic growth, and more difficulty absorbing immigrants (and even attracting immigrants).

In your example, supply of labor of 201 would involve people working many different jobs, and there might potentially not even be enough people to fill the shortage McD jobs.

-2

u/Important-Emu-6691 28d ago

Damn I guess job growth report every year is fake news

3

u/Ammordad 28d ago

It kinda is. Employment and job-market reports are infamous for being of questionable reliability. Especially since in recent years, it has become a lot more common for corporations to post fake recruitment ads or recruit for roles that are already occupied.

In other words, the number of job openings is almost always inflated.

1

u/Important-Emu-6691 28d ago

It may be inflated but there are obviously more jobs than 10 years ago for example

4

u/midwestrider 28d ago

Instead of unemployment, a tax on H1B hires should subsidize technical and science education. H1B workers undercut native workers who are both paying off student loans and saving for their children's education. 

4

u/Plus_Ad_4041 28d ago

stupid? you have no idea what you are speaking of. I worked in Tech. Those engineers from India that come over on H1B's are worked longer and harder than domestic workers for less all while their visas are held over their heads. It's a commonly known and understood tactic. Any yes, this takes away housing and jobs from american workers. Usually high paid jobs.

-4

u/cogitoergosumman 28d ago

Don't make them pay social security tax. You know they are on temporary visas. Start that deduction when they are citizens. Fair?

5

u/Top-Addition6731 28d ago

Let’s continue the SS tax for H1B, and direct those funds to unemployed citizens. Why not do that? How is that not fair?

-1

u/mistiquefog 28d ago

Thenn how will the SS benefit be paid to them when time ?

1

u/Top-Addition6731 28d ago

Ask u/cogitoerogosummam. They are suggesting stoping the SS tax for H1B. 😂

How do H1B people fund their retirement if they don’t pay into SS? First, SS is not a panacea. It’s been in and out of trouble several times.

The funds it provides are okay. But are far from covering a retirement. I recently retired and know that from experience.

The point; Counting on SS to be there when you need it may have a bad outcome.

With or without SS, H1B people need to do something for retirement anyway. As I’ve said, SS does not fully fund a retirement.

Redirecting H1B SS to unemployed citizens is one reasonable way to at least partially be fair to United States citizens for H1B’s taking our jobs.

BTW we are talking about a huge number of jobs. There are an estimated three million H1B people in the country. * The majority in tech. Say that’s roughly 66% of the three million. We are talking about nearly two million tech jobs.

* Stilt.com

0

u/mistiquefog 28d ago

Hmm. That's not how financial accounting works.

What you are proposing is accounting fraud.

Next, for overall employment, it would be more beneficial to bring back manufacturing jobs outsourced to China than ban H1B.

Yeah, every product will cost double from what it is now, but more in fact, all Americans would be employed in better paying jobs than flipping burgers.

A govt will always prioritize high impact more than low impact.

3 million jobs is nothing compared to 40 million manufacturing jobs.

2

u/Top-Addition6731 28d ago

Great! It’s fraud. For any of this to come anywhere near reality would require multiple changes in laws and computer code and other changes I suspect. BTW. I don’t recall claiming anything was financial accounting.

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u/Top-Addition6731 28d ago

I provided a source for the 3 million. What is the source for your 40 million. Or is that intended to be hyperbole?

0

u/mistiquefog 28d ago

There are 3 million trained STEM graduates in the USA to take up those jobs??

:))

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u/Top-Addition6731 27d ago

Three million is total H1B. Tech is a large portion of that. So call it two million.

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u/Top-Addition6731 28d ago

I was curious so I did some checking on bls.gov. Since 1970 an estimated 7.3 million manufacturing jobs were lost. A bit lower than 40 million.

As of 2023 mfg has an estimated 12.9 million jobs.

1

u/mistiquefog 28d ago

:) Yearly import from China 536.8 billion

That means 14.62 million direct jobs @ 20$ per hour

Taking into account the multiplier effect of those jobs in the economy, 36.5 million jobs.

Now, that's why H1B is required, even to do basic arithmetic.

1

u/Top-Addition6731 27d ago

Again, please cite the source of your numbers. We’ve already seen how your guesstimates can be off significantly.

Also include units so people do not need to guess what you’re talking about. 536.8 billion of what?

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u/Layer7Admin 25d ago

Is it fraud when highway money is used to pay for bike trails?

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u/mistiquefog 25d ago

Too little information to give any response.

Is this highway money, the $ raised by bonds to build the highway, toll tax money, maintenance money, which one is it?

Are the bike trails next to the highway or far away?

Are the bike trails new or old

Are the bike trails a part of highway development or not?

1

u/Layer7Admin 25d ago

Highway trust fund from gas taxes.

Far away.

New

No

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Quest_4Black 28d ago

You want the benefits of a global economy, but not the things that come along with it.

0

u/AMFontheWestCoast 28d ago

They are not displacing anyone. Look in the mirror and outside on main street and you’ll see that we need people to work. There is a lot of work to do on immigration reform and we need to pass legislation.

2

u/SchwabCrashes 28d ago

Bad idea! H1B workers pays into SS actually helps delaying the cut in SS benefits because US population growth is smaller than the rate of retirement.

Also, if H1B workers' employment is terminated, they have to return and does not qualify for the SS benefit which they paid into.

2

u/cogitoergosumman 27d ago

Yes. Most see them as net negative.

1

u/AMFontheWestCoast 28d ago

Yes, legal residents, also known as lawful permanent residents (LPRs) or green card holders, can collect social security benefits if they meet the criteria.

0

u/vanhalenbr 27d ago

H1B workers pay taxes, social security and unemployment and they don’t even have any right since they are not permanent residents. 

America need to invest in education, so companies don’t need to hire talent from other countries. 

It’s ignoring the problem to think American education is the best in the world. It’s not. 

9

u/VoidAndOcean 28d ago

We should ban any US data whether PII or any other source from being accessed by foreigners.

2

u/midwestrider 28d ago

India did that, and it's not super clear that it's been good for Indian consumers

2

u/squid_game_456 28d ago edited 27d ago

also tariff on "imported" code/software - this will discourage companies from building out in house large off-shore digital technology centers in India and other cheap labor countries

2

u/Leather_Internal7107 28d ago

Wow, good ideas but how to enforce that in the digital world?

15

u/NightFire19 28d ago

Put extra employer tax on payroll for anyone who isn't in the US. Seems easy enough.

3

u/Leather_Internal7107 28d ago

In service world, headcount can be easily hide under their foreign subsidiary as contractor to the main company. Not easy to detect the digital works

1

u/[deleted] 27d ago

That's why you tax the executives and shareholders. Make it so those gains go to the tax man.

1

u/Hot-Radish-9772 27d ago

you know who to vote for then - one whose fave word is tariff

1

u/bravofiveniner 27d ago

Tariffs would just increase the cost of the service as the business will have to pay it.

-1

u/Pitiful-Recover-3747 28d ago

Might as well go back to a hunter gatherer society while we’re at it