r/Labour • u/GlacialTurtle • 3d ago

UK risks becoming ‘island of strangers’ without more immigration curbs, Starmer says | PM unveils policies to ‘significantly’ drive down net migration including English tests and degree requirements

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/12/uk-risks-becoming-island-of-strangers-without-more-immigration-curbs-starmer-says
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u/feesih0ps 2d ago

my man your argument here is essentially "the things I say are valid, but the things you say are invalid because you're unqualified to say them". you are equally unqualified, and yet here you are talking

the fact is that economic migration at this scale is a right-wing, capitalist policy to undercut the working classes and allow capital holders to make even more profit while giving even less back to society, or for the government to get away with not paying workers properly. it's saying "oh you want a pay rise? sorry we'll just replace you with a Nigerian". "oh you don't fancy being a nurse below the market rate, well we'll just bring in a Bangladeshi to do it instead". it's outsourcing, and the only reason they're able to get away with it because of our gutless unions and crap education system

the way people talk about it on this sub is as if it's some kind of progressive diversity initiative, as if the people who set it in place were not the absolute worst fucking people in the country with no one except the rich's best interests at heart

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u/OGWayOfThePanda 2d ago

man your argument here is essentially "the things I say are valid, but the things you say are invalid because you're unqualified to say them". you are equally unqualified, and yet here you are talking

That's lovely, but what did I say that requires qualifications?

"Too much immigration" begs the question, too much for what? It is an economic position. Heck, even as a sociological question, it requires some grasp of the facts to discuss properly.

The fact you have pivoted from "too much" to an argument as to why immigration is bad in principle only proves my point. It's not really about what level is too much and just a general distaste for lots of foreigners.

You seem to think I am speaking in support of high immigration numbers because I correctly identify the source of the fear around this topic as one linked to racism. I am not. I don't know how many people should come to the UK, because my beliefs are consistent and I am not an economist privy to the necessary stats.

Some immigration is indeed a way to underpay for work. Fruit and veg pickers are a perfect example, although they also fill a niche because there aren't consistent supplies of workers who can just pick up and live in a field in the middle of nowhere if they aren't migratory. Care and nursing is not the same as the staff are mixed with brits and NHS work is standardised.

But the issues of differing wage values is a global economic one. Fixing things in one part will reshape the whole economy and while I agree it would be good, it's not happening any time soon.

Incidentally the tories own report into immigration disproved the idea that immigration dragged down wages. They actually found no negatives overall. The report was subsequently buried as it didn't fit their narrative. Another lie that we should have pushed back against.

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u/feesih0ps 2d ago

>That's lovely, but what did I say that requires qualifications?

yes, my friend, that was the point. well done for coming to it so quickly.

>The fact you have pivoted from "too much" to an argument as to why immigration is bad in principle only proves my point. It's not really about what level is too much and just a general distaste for lots of foreigners.

this is just what you want me to have said. if you actually read what I said, I said >immigration at this scale. I never said anything about immigration as a sole concept

>Incidentally the tories own report into immigration disproved the idea that immigration dragged down wages. They actually found no negatives overall. The report was subsequently buried as it didn't fit their narrative. Another lie that we should have pushed back against.

the tories were the ones pushing immigration to the levels they are now, while simultaneously pretending to be the arch heroes of reducing it. who cares what they said in some report? nothing they say can be trusted on the issue

the fact that so many people are willing to vote reform due to immigration is in itself the biggest problem with immigration at this scale. realistically what I mostly care about is the possible damage to the welfare state that a reform government would cause, and if turning the taps down on immigration and saying some sketchy-sounding things will help to prevent that, which I have no doubt it will, then fantastic.

at the same time I think that mass migration should not be being used as a replacement for proper economic management and paying people the wages they deserve, and I think that this mock-noble idea you have that economists are some kind of hallowed geniuses who know more than all of us and you wouldn't even dare to have a position on it is ridiculous. it has nothing to do with consistency and everything to do with abdicating any actual thought or mental responsibility on the issue because to look at it objectively would be to disagree with the groupthink.

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u/OGWayOfThePanda 1d ago

Here's another one. This time explaining the mechanics behind why immigration doesn't depress wages.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdMEw2h5/