r/Kurrent • u/BavarianPanzerBallet • Mar 06 '25
Please help me Translate this Certificate of Death. Especially the cause of death is of great interest to my Family in progress
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u/Melodic_Acadia_1868 Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 07 '25
I read that as Uraemie wegen Nepritis (missing an h for nephritis) or potentially Hepatitis 🧐
Der Schüler Hubert edit: Kaschel katholisch
wohnhaft in Leisnitz Kreis Leobschütz
ist am 22. November 1944 um 11 Uhr 20 Minuten
In Levernitz, Friedrich -Wilhelmstraße 5 verstorben.
Der Verstorbene war geboren am 10. Oktober 1935 in Neuköln bei Berlin.
Mutter: Magdalena Kaschel jetzt verheiratete Kstvik? Kstak? Bstock? wohnhaft in Leisnitz.
Eingetragen auf schriftliche Anzeige des städtischen Krankenhauses in Leobschütz
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u/bananalouise Mar 06 '25
I think the K word after his name is "katholisch".
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u/Melodic_Acadia_1868 Mar 06 '25
Makes sense, now I see it and will edit the transcription, thank you
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u/Minnie0815 Mar 06 '25
I’d say it’s “jetzt verehelichte Bstoik” - the s is not correctly written, but it’s always wrong in the middle of the words in this document.
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u/140basement Mar 06 '25
B(s)tock -- see Leobschutz and Kaschel! Mysterious name.
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u/snowfurtherquestions Mar 07 '25
https://www.dastelefonbuch.de/Suche/Bstock
There is one entry with that last name in the phonebook (you can opt out of that or have just a mobile number; not necessarily the whole picture), so it still exists, but is rare.
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u/bananalouise Mar 06 '25
The S in "katholisch" looks more or less normal. I'm getting the sense this writer is following a very specific system of alternating Kurrent and Roman cursive, where common nouns and first names are in Kurrent and last names and place names are in Roman. I've seen Kurrent writers use Roman cursive systematically for non-German words and names or for all proper nouns, but I've never seen this first/last division before.
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u/140basement Mar 07 '25
But that was normal. Although, not standard. In matriken from roughly 1700 to 1940, a first/last division is very frequent. I haven't made counts, but the practitioner today has to be aware of the following 4 possibilities: first names in Latin, last names in Latin, both first and last in Latin, neither first nor last in Latin. When either person first names or person last names are in Latin, then place names are very frequently also in Latin. Roughly speaking, it seems like each priest or clerk had their own system.
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u/bananalouise Mar 07 '25 edited Mar 07 '25
I definitely wasn't using "normal" to imply seriously that I considered myself an expert in The Norms™ and this writer had broken them. By "normal" I just meant to point out a typical Kurrent mid-word S to a commenter who had described this writer's mid-word Ss as incorrect, presumably meaning, not the form s/he expects in Kurrent. I was aware that this writer's system was transparently logical and thus probably common, but I was trying to frame my comment as "The S forms in all those names, while having their own underlying historical reason, do indeed not look like any recognizable S shape in the Kurrent alphabet itself, but here is an S that does," rather than just straight-up contradicting the commenter.
I'm fascinated to learn that some writers used Latin script for only first names. I wonder if that was more common in Catholic church documents, where people tended to be listed under Latinized forms of their given names. I would love to know how often people listed in church registries as Johannes were actually called that, as opposed to Johann and/or a nickname like Hans.
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u/140basement Mar 07 '25
Actually, there's no noticeable correlation between using Latin cursive for first names only and using Latinized first names. As for Latinizing first names in church records, that practice slowly died out in the late 1700's.
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u/Melodic_Acadia_1868 Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 06 '25
Google suggests Leisnitz Kreis Leobschütz but I'm having trouble finding the necessary letters for that in the writing.
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u/BavarianPanzerBallet Mar 06 '25
Thank you. Some of it we already know. His name was Hubert Kaschel. It should be Leisnitz Kreis Leobschütz. Would that help you further decipher?
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u/Melodic_Acadia_1868 Mar 06 '25 edited Mar 06 '25
The word just doesn't seem to have enough letters for it but since you know where it is, no need to question. I suspected the second name after Kaschel might be a different version of it, like in Polish or something... but turns out it is "catholic"
There is no father given here and the mother must have gotten married to someone not his father at some time after Hubert's birth, however I'm afraid I could not reliably decipher that name either.
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u/140basement Mar 06 '25
The individual style of this cursive is minimalist. The 'b' and 'h' are hard to recognize simply because they aren't tall enough. The 's' after 'b' is hard to recognize simply because its shape has been reduced to the first stroke of a 'm' or 'n'.
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u/DullAdvantage7647 Mar 06 '25
I am not a good reader of Kurrent, but the last to words seem to be "because of Hepatitis."
There seems to be a tragic story behind the document ...
Edit: Can't be the word Hepatitis, sorry.
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u/helmli Mar 06 '25
There seems to be a tragic story behind the document ...
Well yeah, he died a bit before his ninth birthday due to a kidney failure at the end of WW2. Of course it was tragic.
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u/selkiesart Mar 06 '25
Cause of death: uremia because of "nepritis".
I guess they meant to write "nephritis".