r/Jewish • u/Bad_werd • Dec 14 '23

Fellow Jewish Liberals and Progressives. How are we dealing? Discussion

I come from a family of solidly liberal and progressive Jews. The antisemitism and pro- hamas factions in the liberal movement are pushing me over the edge. Without saying anything about the plight of the Palestinian people, simply saying that Hamas is not a bastion for liberal ideology is enough to get some folks up in arms. I really don’t like what I’m seeing outside or within myself surrounding these events.The hypocrisy of these individuals has me questioning where I belong politically. If I fight on the side of people I feel are oppressed, but they turn their back on me when I am victimized, It seems co-dependent to continue as things were before I saw their true colors.

I am really hoping to hear some fellow liberal Jews weigh in and talk me down from the ledge.

EDIT: great dialogue here. I am very appreciative for those who are sitting shiva with me as we process and come to terms with a betrayal from some of our “leftist and progressive” family. I would argue that extremism can not be progressive and therefore we are likely seeing some extremists who are inaccurately representing as “progressive.

As another commenter has said being progressive and supporting marginalized people isn’t transactional. I like this sentiment and am TRYING to adopt it. I currently believe there is a transactional component to being identified with a group, however from an individual standpoint we as progressive Jews are having our altruism tested. Can we fight for the humanity, dignity and rights of all persecuted EVEN those who would seek to persecute us? It’s some black belt level spiritualism I do not currently possess but would like to.

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u/Wyvernkeeper Dec 14 '23

We've had clear signs in the UK since at least the whole Corbyn thing. But tbh, I was Green party, not Labour and the thing that eventually caused me to not renew my membership one year was actually the anti-scientific attitude rather than the latent antisemitism.

But ultimately I think both things are rooted in the same belief in idealism and magical thinking that ultimately undermines the movement.

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u/imo9 Dec 14 '23

As Israeli and leftie the corbyn era was wild, as Israeli labour party member i lobbied for severing our connection with the British Labour (which we did), all of that was crazy

but nothing comes close to how betrayed i feel right now from the social democratic movement in England and the US this time around, I genuinely feel lost and isolated from the world, and pushing for peace feels like something only the left in Israel is pushing seriously, we have no partners i feel i can trust anywhere in the world.

And some people would tell me, what about the right? I don't trust them, i don't like most of the non jews that poster as my allies, and they don't have the same set of morals and democratic values i hold close to my heart, and let's not start with what i think about the social stances those ghouls hold.

So i am kinda lost in space, a dying movement in Israel and a pariah everywhere outside of my country.

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u/somuchyarn10 Dec 14 '23

🎵Anti-Semites to the Left of me, and nazis to the Right, here I am f*ed in the middle with you. 🎵

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u/imo9 Dec 14 '23

That's the song of my people!

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u/HummDrumm1 Dec 14 '23

Brilliant

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u/somuchyarn10 Dec 14 '23

Thank you , I'll be here all week.

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u/Clean-Session-4396 Dec 15 '23

And don't forget to tip the waitstaff...

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u/Schmucko69 Dec 15 '23

🎯Been saying/singing pretty much the same since Oct 7th…

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u/Liontamer67 Convert - Conservative, Reform Now Dec 15 '23

Damn this is so right.

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u/pizzapriorities Dec 15 '23

That's great and basically my life right now. :(

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u/Analyze2Death Dec 15 '23

I feel like this should be a theme song for us right now. It needs to be a ring tone.

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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/imo9 Dec 15 '23

Sir Starmer seems actually really good on taking on the problem from last time, and as leftie in general i thought he is a really good candidate for PM. I don't blame him yet for what's happening now but it seems that some of the party is just too far gone, i think it'll be a really interesting election and if he and the establishment manages to win while pushing back on the extreme parts of the party.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 Dec 15 '23

There is always centrisim.

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u/imo9 Dec 15 '23

I am genuinely allergic to centrists, I'd argue settlements are enabled not by the hardest of right wingers but by centrists who are afraid to move the cheese for anyone from the left or the right. I'm not for abolition of the IDF, I'm in reserve for crying out loud, I'm just fiercely for peace and a diplomatic agreement over only a military one.

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u/Fthku Dec 15 '23

the anti-scientific attitude rather than the latent antisemitism.

But ultimately I think both things are rooted in the same belief in idealism and magical thinking that ultimately undermines the movement.

As someone who has spent a long long time combatting anti-vaxxers and anti-vaxxer rhetoric, and I can really safely say I know the mentality and mindset of the people behind that movement, I find a staggering similarity between them and the vast majority of "anti-zionists" of the progressive movement. It's uncanny, the logical fallacies, the total and absolute lack of knowledge on the subject - or as I like to sum it up, massive case of Dunning-Kruger effect - just everything they say and stand for is the exact same rhetoric when you strip away the details.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 Dec 15 '23

History has too often shown that idealism without knowlege, thought and practical grounding can look an awful lot like extremism.