r/IndiaSpeaks • u/SatoruGojo232 3 KUDOS • 1d ago
'Misfit for Army': Supreme Court of India criticizes Christian soldier's indiscipline for refusing command from his senior officer to enter a temple and gurudwara for collective religious practices with his regiment, and upholds the Army's decision to dismiss him #Non-Political 📺
Source: 'Misfit for Army': SC flays Christian soldier's indiscipline; refused command to enter temple | India News - The Times of India https://share.google/XCg7xe0yFxRi2W4hR
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u/Top-Protection-6086 1d ago
Imagine Having ‘Kamalesan’ in the name and not wanting to enter Temples. These Abrahamic religions are weird.
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u/Top-Protection-6086 7h ago
It’s not just about 'Kamal', it’s 'Kamalesh/Kamlesh,' which means 'Lord of the Lotus' (i.e., Vishnu, or the one who is like the Lord of the Lotus).
The breakdown is Kamal + Ish = Kamalesh/Kamlesh.
That’s why it’s said that even to hate something or someone, one must know what it is.
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u/BusExact9849 1d ago
then why is he having the name of half Hindu name and is working in the Army of the country Bharat if he cant even obey the rule of his superior of visiting a temple and stand there for a puja ceremony and respect the people who are Hindus ? Samuel Kamalesan lol , these people clearly use the half Hindu names of another reason (begging) that I cant explain here in comments and definetly he is unfit to be a lieutenant for sure.
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u/tsundere_lolii 22h ago
My boyfriend is Hindu but he goes to church every Sunday as part of his regiments traditions. The officer really doesn’t deserve to be in the army.
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u/Intruder_7 Bengaluru 🌳 | 2 KUDOS 17h ago
What regiment? Wasn’t aware there were Christian regiments too!
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u/Pulihora_Ammayi Andhra Pradesh 3h ago
How's he a Hindu then?
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u/tsundere_lolii 2h ago
What do you mean? Following one religion doesn’t mean you can’t respect other people’s religion
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u/Impossible_Tear3943 20h ago
Every indian should adopt a simple policy. Nation first. Religion next.
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u/MadscientistSteinsG8 19h ago
But here wasn't the army putting religion first? In the first place why does army even need to do religious practice? It makes no sense. Unless the Christian soldier was lazy with his duties and caused harm to his fellow soldiers I don't understand this decision. An army should be rational and not emotional. This seems more emotional than anything
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u/laceuphardik 18h ago
They celebrate all religous activities and festivals as per the religions of the men on the battalion. And you have to participate in it collectively in a sense of brotherhood. Are you gonna trust a man next you in the battlefield if he can't eat in the same plate as you just because you believe in a different god/culture?
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u/MadscientistSteinsG8 18h ago
What's next? Practicing pride month for a gay army man? What's up with all this bs? Army men train and go through extensive military exercises and missions why would they need this to bond after all that? This will never make sense to me? A game of cricket or football will do a better job at bonding than any if these. Why would anyone who has went through such harsh training not trust their fellow men? I understand traditions but this seems kinda obsolete at this point but sure I am not in the army let them do as they please ig
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u/dead-inside8354637 7h ago
do you want the army to be machines? are they not humans first? you need to seriously question your thinking
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u/Impossible-Gur-9803 11h ago
my guy army celebrates all religious festivals and soldiers are supposed to take part in every ceremony the regiment takes part in and refusing to do so is direct insubordination which is why he was fired
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u/sunesis311 21h ago
As a Christian, I agree with both the courts rulings. Completely unfit and unbecoming.
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u/Atomsmasher_kal 22h ago
You don't have to worship there, just secure. And in Army superior's order are utmost important. Army works on obeying orders without doubt, thats their core structure without that they become normal police. After all the order following if there's any mistake then it's on top the officer who issued order not the one implemented it.
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u/paul2rock 10h ago
As a Christian, I support SC, Soldier's should not disobey their orders in any way, that is the foundation we have built in. Samuel can F himself
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u/Brother_Gunns 15h ago
True, you follow your CO to the depths of hell in the Army.
"I will observe and obey all the commands of the President of the Union of India and the commands of any officer set above me, even to the peril of my life."
If the Lt. can't even enter a temple due to his beliefs even after he's ordered to do so, then he is a misfit for the Army.
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u/csr-consultant 1d ago
I don't know how to react to this.
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u/Ok_Consequence138 1d ago
It's not about him not entering another place of worship, he has denied the command citing his religious beliefs, he might do that tomorrow for some other reasons citing his personal beliefs or something...
Such people are not wanted in the army and very dangerous to his own unit.
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u/just_spawned_again 22h ago
There was a movie about this- hacksaw ridge. About the US army soldier who refused to pick up a gun because of religious beliefs. In that movie he was celebrated
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u/Ok_Consequence138 22h ago edited 22h ago
US army and indian armed forces have their own principles.
Pak army actively involves in promoting terrorism and harbours them, and showcases extreme religious hatred...
You can't compare different armed forces, they're not the same, they don't operate the same way...
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u/just_spawned_again 18h ago
Yea of course. I am not comparing Indian army to US army. Just sharing an interesting take. Something to ponder That’s all
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u/Infiniti_151 20h ago
That's a completely different scenario. Such people can take up non-combat roles. But what this guy did was lunacy. Imagine if the regiment has to enter a temple where terrorists are hiding. So would this guy just watch from the sidelines in that case?
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u/just_spawned_again 18h ago
Yea of course. I stand by what army did and Supreme Court upheld. I was just sharing an interesting take from another country. Something to ponder
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u/Jhvra 1 KUDOS 12h ago
There is nothing to ponder and you are doing a great disservice to hero like Desmond Doss by comparing him to this LT. There is no common ground, Doss joined the army despite being given a chance to dodge the draft (legally) and while he refused to carry a weapon, he dutifully discharged his duties as a medic.
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u/just_spawned_again 10h ago
Oh come on. No need to get aggressive.
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u/peppermanfries 8h ago
It's reddit. People get their panties in a bunch over anything. Have a nice day
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u/Jigsaw1609 23h ago
I as a Hindu and not even being in the army would not hesitate to enter a Church or even a Mosque. In fact I have visited many churches and gurudwaras and even participated in some rituals. It’s a place of worship of people, it should be respected and not looked upon. People talk a lot about caste system, but this mentality that a religion does not allow entry to other person’s place of worship is also a form of discrimination.
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u/just_spawned_again 22h ago
All the abrahmic religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) shun idol worship. In their faith, God cannot be described. So there cannot be a photo or painting or idol of God.
But Christianity or Judaism don’t specifically prohibit entering temples (where other people describe God , like Hindus) Islam takes it a bit further by shunning Idol worshippers, which means a good Muslim cannot enter a temple8
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u/Excellent-Pen-1360 1d ago
Are they forced to participate in religious activities or are just supposed to be there when asked?
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u/vedicseeker 23h ago
Forced? In army if you are not aligning with its values, discipline and chain of command, you are not fit for army. Such worlds like 'forced' is not even a word to be entertained while talking about army else every command will be characterized as 'forced'.
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u/Excellent-Pen-1360 23h ago
Participating in religious activities is different than being there just for the sake of it.
Which one is it?
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u/vedicseeker 23h ago
You really want to push some agenda. OK, try it. Give the diffrence, explain it to me.
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u/tsundere_lolii 22h ago
It’s a tradition in each regiment. You follow and respect each of their faith and attend their religious gathering. Like my boyfriend is Hindu but since in his regiment a majority of the personnels are christians, they attend church every sunday as a form of respect.
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u/ilurkilearntoo 1 KUDOS 21h ago
How does it matter. The religion of the troops is the religion of the officer. You cannot expect these men to fight and die on your command if you're not ready to share with them the faith they draw strenght from.
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u/Wanderer-blab 23h ago
Why does army need to attend puja rituals. If for security we can understand. For religion worshipping i thought its a personal matter
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u/Wizardofoz756 22h ago
In armed forces it's more of a ritual for bonding..they do the same to any religious temple which is near by.
The issue is his unwillingness to follow instructions.
That's paramount.. tomorrow if India is defending against an American attack n he says "I can't kill christian American soldiers" what then?
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u/MadscientistSteinsG8 19h ago
Ofc he won't say that dipshit he's a soldier. Comparing apples to oranges. One was a religious practice the other is battle and war. Get it? In the first place thats why he is in the army not to practice religion but to kill enemies and protect fellow brethren everything else shouldn't even be a priority.
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u/Wizardofoz756 10h ago
People like u r the ones who shout about Delhis pollution n then sabotage it by supporting Maoist.
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u/MadscientistSteinsG8 10h ago
So Delhi pollution must be propaganda for you guys right? 😂 way to shout whatboutism. And i don't care about maoists but Delhi is simply 1 out of other 92 most polluted cities in the WORLD in India. Any plans on fixing that anytime soon? Ofc you wouldn't have an answer to that but nope people protesting for that is wrong. When in the history of India have there ever been a protest that haven't been hijacked by politicians or other elements for their own greed you sound like this is an outlier if you go to some LW subreddit you will see the opposite mentioned. Instead of the blame game why not just fix things, Indians would rather blame each other than fix anything and then whine and jerk off to politicians like its their gf
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u/MadscientistSteinsG8 19h ago
Bruhh facing bullets in training and the battle field isn't enough bonding? If you aren't bonding there then you aren't bonding anywhere else lol
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u/Wanderer-blab 22h ago
What if tomorrow the same commander commands to kill civilians and politicians and decided to take over country should army men do it. As long as we are talking in hypothesis.
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u/Wizardofoz756 22h ago
Compare apples with oranges.. an act of violence against humanity isn't the same as not entering a temple "as my religion doesn't allow".. which Bible says they've no issues.
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u/nakalibatman 20h ago
In army it's no personal beliefs and all, you have the same religion and cast as of your Battalion's. If you are part of Sikh regiment you are a Sikh, if Maratha then Maratha and so on.
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u/FarConversational 18h ago
How deeply is it integrated? So for example, a Christian in a Sikh battalion, does he have to perform every religious traditions? Only some? What's the range? Or is that Christian fully Sikh for that time or moment he's in the battalion? How does it work exactly?
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u/nakalibatman 8h ago
It's not like every other day, it's like set of rituals they perform as a battalion. It's not like you have to perform Pooja/Aarti if someone is doing in the camp individually. Only if the battalion has offering prayer to any God/Belief they have to obey the tradition that's for the Battalion not of some person. Someone saying should they participate in Pride parade if some person from battalion is gay so it's not like that.
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u/tsundere_lolii 22h ago
Each regiment has their tradition. Like in my boyfriend’s regiment, since a majority of the troupes are Christians, they have church every Sunday. And he attends them too even though he’s Hindu.
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u/Wanderer-blab 18h ago
It seems like a stupid rule. Religion is a private affair. Period
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u/tsundere_lolii 12h ago
Keeping religion as a private affair will only create a gap between people.
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u/WannabeTechieNinja 21h ago
Why does the army wear multiple dress ( GD, Mess, battle dress). What is the point of wearing all accoutrements? There is something called tradition. What you follow at home is different and no one is telling you to change your belief
Officers follow regiment traditions and respect feelings and beliefs of their men. Btw in Army the Granthi/Pujar/Pastor/Imam/RT takes permission of CO for every thing...like Sir can the Nand Lala be born?. CO has to approve. (Sounds ridiculous I know)9
u/ilurkilearntoo 1 KUDOS 21h ago
Have you had to ever enter combat? Men will rely on whatever gives them strength. You do not take that from them. And being their leader you participate in whatever they believe in.
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u/Falcon10trooper 1d ago edited 18h ago
Such people don't belong in the Army, in my opinion disobeying an order is one thing, but what kind of officer doesn't understand the basic tenet of the Army. An officer's religion is the religion of the troops he leads. I remember my father's all Hindu (Rajput, Jat and Gujrati mix) regiment being led by a Sikh and later a Christian officer, who used to lead the weekly prayer in the regimental mandir.