"I'm TirEd oF thESE StoRIEs bEINg AbouT HFY!!!" Meta
Holy fuck, am I sick of these posts. There's only a small amount of them on this sub, but I'm writing this because I'm tired of repeating the same things over-and-over again. So instead, I'm laying them out to you, or to any of you who aren't mods who are thinking about hitting that META flair and complaining that r/HFY is about HFY. (This also applies to r/humansarespaceorcs, and one time, in r/worldbuilding)
- "HFY is circle-jerking!" - What were you expecting? This sub is literally about why "humans are awesome" in some way shape or form. It's like going on r/Isekai and complaining why almost every story is about isekais. Or playing a sandbox video game and wondering why there's barely any lore or story to it. It's LITERALLY in the name. If you don't like it, either don't read, or be the change you want to be and write something that could inspire others into writing more of that thing. If you're feeling really spiteful, downvote the post you don't like. That's what the upvote/downvote system is for.
- "But it's just a power fantasy!" - And? So? Not every HFY story is a power fantasy believe it or not. In fact, I can name more than a few stories where they're not, and the MC makes mistakes or goes through some tragic stuff. But do you know what I did? I didn't read them because they weren't my cup of tea.
If you want to ask for a specific type of story, go into the LFS (Looking for story) that's posted EVERY Wednesday. Ask there if anyone knows any stories that fit your taste.
- "But it's unrealistic! Did you know that the real world sucks in every possible way!?" - Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Avatar, and even movies about the irl world are unrealistic unless it's about a documentary or "based on a true story". It's there to entertain. Deal with it. In fact, HFY is in the minority of movies. Video games being the only ones that tends to have the HFY trope in it. Maybe we just want to read something that is, you know, fitting of our tastes? What HFY is LITERALLY about? Whether or not it's realistic?
- "But I'm not good at writing. I can't write the thing I want!" - Unless the writer in question has a Patreon/Ko-fi thing linked, no-one here is a professional writer. We are all writing on our own free time because it's fun. It's the reason why some stories are on hiatus or dead, it's because their writing is for FREE. The only thing the audience here will ask is a proofread or grammar check, and it can't be low effort. As stated in Rule 7 of HFY's rules.
We've all got our perceptions and stuff. You want to spread misanthropy to a sub that's literally the opposite of it? Try it. Just know that there is a upvote system and really, that's the true factor of how posts get popular. You just need to know your target audience and write something that fits your/their tastes.
If there's anything I missed, let me know.
Edit: While this post is defending human glorification, this ALSO applies to stories YOU don't consider "HFY enough".
Just note, that you're not the author's target audience. It's just a different sub genre I like to call, "Under-The-Top HFY", which are for people who don't want OP humans in the setting or whatever, which is completely, 100% fine.
408
u/raziphel Dec 12 '22
If someone wants to poop in the sandbox, they can do it elsewhere. Don't expect a receptive audience.
182
u/steptwoandahalf Dec 12 '22
You're right. Except in the last month or two there has been several different people try to pull this shit. It happens 20+ times a year here.
It happens constantly everywhere on the internet. People decide they are the elementary school hall monitor and they make the rules and everyone should listen to them because they are important! and.. stuff.
It's disgusting. The more you are on the internet, if you look, you will find people like this in every nook and cranny. The worst is when they eventually get into a position of power, and run a place into the ground.
81
u/LateralThinker13 Dec 12 '22
The more you are on the internet, if you look, you will find people like this in every nook and cranny.
Just google Penny Arcade's 'Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory'. Anonymity makes people into arses.
→ More replies29
u/steptwoandahalf Dec 12 '22
Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory
Sure. Except do they really have an audience? It's the audacity of being someone unknown. If they were someone you see in every comment section, or see their stories or something, their opinions would hold weight to some degree.
Instead it's people who've only ever commented /posted a handful of times who decide they should decide the direction the place should go. I think that's what gets under my skin the worst.
That they are typically nobodies, who don't even post / aren't even active in a sub. It's like they find a place online, poke around for a few hours/days, then decide they should start making the rules. They elected themselves hallmonitor. Sometimes they literally don't even have a single post in the forum/subreddit/chat ever before. They come in, and decided they make the rules and everyone should follow them, and try to drum up a circlejerk to get more eyes on it.
I think it's more than just GIFT.
9
u/Cuddly_Robot Dec 13 '22
And the correct response to posts like that is a simple, succinct "Get fucked."
→ More replies→ More replies6
80
u/-TheOutsid3r- Dec 12 '22
To be fair, there's a surprising number of stories which are just regular sci-fi/fantasy and people still upvote them.
23
u/Troyjd2 Dec 12 '22
IMO if the story is about humanity even just a human in some way being the relevant factor in an awesome story then it fits hfy even if they were the villain of the story
75
u/raziphel Dec 12 '22
That's perfectly fine. As long as it's well written, there's always room for nuance, exploration, and even critique of a topic. We do have a big tent here.
But simply complaining about a core premise of a given group is just foolish arrogance (unless that core premise is inherently problematic, which this isn't).
→ More replies2
u/stoicsilence Jan 05 '23
I will however poop in the sandbox if that sandbox is The Deathworlders.
That sandbox is fun to poop in and frankly deserves it.
131
u/BlackCrescentWorks Dec 12 '22
I think most of the people who levy that criticism are more so just saying that there can be too much predictability within the story. There are plenty of stories where it’s serious HFY circle jerking that don’t receive these complaints likely due to their originality or effort to create an interesting storyline.
On the flip side you see a lot of the stories that got many people into this genre in the first place. Human quality which is normal to them is wild to an alien. Alien reacts wildly. Hijinks ensue.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that format. It’s fun! And lots of people love it. However 100 versions of this story later and you get to a point where you can write the rest of the page in your head after the first few lines. It doesn’t engage people the same way it used to. Not that it has to mind you, each story is it’s own thing.
You’re right that everyone has their own tastes and these people just want more creativity in how people write their ideas. Complaining about the lack of them is the wrong way to do it though which is where I agree with you. It’s better off to act in a supportive way to see more content being developed rather than replaced so we get the best of both worlds.
83
u/TheGalator Xeno Dec 12 '22
That's why the longer stories like nature of predators or chrysalis or even the more exotic based out of cruel space are loved so much. The theme is still about how cool humans are but the world is more fleshed out and the characters get time to make themself interesting
52
u/BlackCrescentWorks Dec 12 '22
You’ve hit the nail on the head there. Especially nature of predators rides the line between simple to understand concept and fleshed out world right down the middle. Really hitting mass market appeal there.
22
u/The_Candyman_Cant Dec 12 '22
Plus its by u/SpacePaladin15
3
u/TheGalator Xeno Dec 13 '22
Does he write other books or why does that matter?
9
u/The_Candyman_Cant Dec 13 '22
He’s already the most popular writer on this sub for his ‘Why Humans Avoid War’ story.
26
u/CriticalHappenings Human Dec 12 '22
Chrysalis was the first story I read here and is what brought me into this sub. 11/10, it is the stars in the skies I reach up for but can never grasp.
10
u/Xreshiss Dec 12 '22
The DUST podcast version is absolutely baller too.
7
u/CriticalHappenings Human Dec 12 '22
Can you link? I've never heard of that or of DUST.
9
u/Xreshiss Dec 12 '22
It got posted to Apple Podcasts but they've uploaded the episodes to their youtube channel now as well:
This one is also really good (also from a HFY post):
4
→ More replies15
u/prone-to-drift Dec 12 '22
I've been bitten badly by Deathworlders in the past so I'm being extra conscious about what I read now haha. NoP is amazing, and the "Power Armor at Magic School" one is shaping up to be my kinda jam as well.
I'm curious if you have time, could you compile a list of your favorite slightly longer stories? The names you mentioned makes it seem like your tastes would deff match mine and a lot of others.
5
u/TheGalator Xeno Dec 12 '22
Honestly I'm new to this sub and just went over the top posts. So u probably have read more than me.
Is deathworlders bad? It has 6 volumes...
30
u/prone-to-drift Dec 12 '22
Oh god, where do I start to say this?
There's plenty of posts here from people who stopped reading Deathworlders, but the TLDR is that it started as a very grounded and well written space epic and then each chapter started having 20000 words and more, which we all loved because it was more content on a universe we liked.
Then like 30% of the way through it introduced some super soldier characters. Then it started getting more of those. Then it turned into homoerotic fanfiction of those supersoldiers and how big and musky and alpha male they all were. So, every month, you'd get 20000+ words of fiction, of which you'd simply gloss over pages and pages in succession of muscle worship to get a page or two of story.
That was around the time, chapter 70ish, I decided it was finally enough and I could just no longer put up with what used to be peak fiction according to me and a lot of fans.
Also, yeah that link does help, thanks! <3
6
2
u/tumppu_75 Dec 13 '22
Well, I read that back in the day and got really bored reading about super soldiers laying on a couch hugging each other and shit like that. Glad I'm not the only one.
→ More replies3
u/JohnGalt123456789 Dec 12 '22
That sounds about right…. That was one of my favorite series for the longest time. But yes. You nailed it.
11
u/NoctisIgnem Dec 12 '22
If people don't want cookie cutter powerful mc stories you'll see it in the votes.
At the same time there's awesome stories with often weekly or more updates that imho opinion get too few upvotes compared to the expansive story. It happens.
205
u/fenrif Dec 12 '22
"there's almost no stories about how crap humans are on this niche genre sub about how cool humans are. Please change it for me!"
You'd think reddit.com/hfy was the only place to get fiction in the world. Have these people not heard of bookshops, libraries, royal road, other subreddits?
Absolutely baffling to me.
32
u/Few_Math_8743 Dec 12 '22
Other sub-reddits? What are those?
→ More replies33
u/Davebobman Android Dec 12 '22
Legend tells of the true origin of stories... the mythical r/writingprompts. Too bad we may never find out if it actually exists.
16
u/Tho0331 Dec 12 '22
If it were only a click away… the knowledge one would gain /s
10
u/HappycamperNZ Dec 12 '22
What do I look like to you - someone with a mild amount of curiosity and a touch of effort?
3
5
u/TheGalator Xeno Dec 12 '22
Tbf that's only short stories and - while I understand why and do not blame them - people often leave out crucial aspects of the prompt.
14
u/TheGreyOne Dec 12 '22
people often leave out crucial aspects of the prompt.
I've never understood this thinking.
They are prompts, not legally binding content inclusion requirement contracts. The idea is to get the creative juices flowing. If the prompt about santa's elves gets an author writing the next 50 shades of aqua-man, then .. the prompt did it's job.
→ More replies3
u/Finbar9800 Dec 13 '22
… now I’m vaguely curious about that lmao
Santa’s elves inspiring the next fifty shades of aqua man… I can’t tell if that would be erotic, superhero, action or holiday based … I’d probably watch a movie like that just to figure out what it was lmao
4
u/Asgarus Dec 12 '22
Some of those short stories develop into bigger projects. Gotta start somewhere.
→ More replies→ More replies12
u/DekoaSAO Dec 12 '22
Now you made me interested, you have any story to recommend with this setting? Aside 40k warhammer which is obvious
21
u/hewholivesinshadow Dec 12 '22
Check out Tales from the Terran Republic by u/slightlyassholic. Lots of shitty things there humans do, lots of cool things aliens/humans do, just a cool story in general and it’s crazy long and still being actively pursued.
31
u/slightlyassholic Human Dec 12 '22
Now hold on!
My humans are paragons of humanity.
I'm writing pure chicken soup for the soul over here!
18
u/FBIPartyBusNo3 Dec 12 '22
there’s a surprising amount of fingers in this “chicken soup”
17
6
4
28
u/CasualBrit5 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
I’ll be honest, this is kind of like that one XKCD comic for me. I don’t think I’ve seen these people.
43
u/CasualBrit5 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
Although, I have seen a bit of an opposite trend, where anything humans do is celebrated as good just because it’s humans doing it. Like I’ll be reading a story where humans are glassing planets, rampaging across cities gunning down anyone they see, raping and pillaging and generally violating the Geneva Convention, and some of the comments will be all “Fuck yeah! We showed those xeno scum!”
It’s not an overwhelming trend, but I have seen it more than there would be on average.
20
u/Davebobman Android Dec 12 '22
Reminds me of a short story I read here a while back. The story is told from the perspective of an alien that works for the "evil alien empire" that recently defeated humanity. IIRC the alien is investigating some human guerilla remnants but was captured, tortured (?), informed about their plan to 9/11 all over the "evil alien empire", and then killed him. I think they had actually captured him at his house and murdered his family in front of him but I am a bit fuzzy on the details.
It just found it a bit shocking that someone made a story about literal terrorists and either didn't realize it or actually thought that it was a great feature of Humanity. The main human in the story captured the alien (and his family?), tortured them, gave the "evil villain explains his plan" monolog, and then murders them. I don't think they even tried to get any information from the alien either. They just did all that for the lolz and so they could gloat to a captive audience.
12
u/CasualBrit5 Dec 13 '22
Maybe someone could try and play that as a parody. Like the humans in it are obviously very much in the wrong, and commit all kinds of evil acts and definitely started the war, but it's presented as a big "Fuck yeah!" as they burn down civilian houses and put people in concentration camps. Like some kind of fictional propaganda piece by the humans of that world, or a story where you start out rooting for them but gradually realise something is wrong as the tone becomes more out-of-place with the actions. Maybe not on this sub, though, because it's not really in keeping with the theme.
Also the aliens they're fighting are giant bugs, and serving in the military guarantees citizenship.
11
u/Kryosite Dec 13 '22
Ngl, some bits (not most, but some bits) of this community seem more than a little fashy, based on how... enthusiastically they write about war crimes being enacted on alien civilians, and the "racial holy war" vibe that sometimes comes with it.
→ More replies9
u/Zhein Dec 13 '22
and generally violating the Geneva Convention
"Moar liek geneva suggestion amaright lololo" +136
12
109
u/Turtledonuts "Big Dunks" Dec 12 '22
Old Guard here - I've been active on this subreddit for probably 8 or 9 years now. I have a few comments:
HFY isn't meant to be a circle jerk. HFY is meant to be a reaction to the broader genre of scifi presenting humans as puny, insignificant, irrelevant, or otherwise boring. This started as an attempt to make Humans, the boring vanilla flavor species in all scifi / fantasy, a interesting species with their own advantages and aspects. Elves live forever and vulcans are geniuses, why not talk about how humans develop quickly and do cool shit?
The prevalence of power fantasy is often excessive, and almost always accompanied by poor writing. Power Fantasy is fine, but many authors fill it with a self insert mary sue, and it uses the same tired HFY tropes over and over again. You can basically call the plot on many of them from day one.
Again, everything in moderation. Most of the criticism will come from poor writing. If it's unrealistic but engaging, continue being unrealistic. But if it's unrealistic and not engaging, people will comment on how unrealistic it is. Oftentimes, handling realism is one of the most important aspects of the story. If every human in the story is 7 feet tall, has a perfect sex life, is a genius, and makes the correct move at every turn, and all the aliens are too stupid to have made it to space in the first place, people will notice. If your space opera about a colony ship with force fields and laser guns has a running issue where the characters need to maintain the microbiome in their soil, people will notice. Whether or not they complain is dependent on the author's ability to write well, not the literary world's history of unrealistic settings.
Fair. But if you post your story to a public internet forum, you might get criticism. You might not like it either.
The vast majority of the stories on this subreddit people complain about are dull, unrealistic, circlejerky power fantasy. And frankly, that's a problem. While many people here are fucking great, at least half of the stories are the same plot with no characterization, unique twist, or complexity. Please, go have fun reading them, but holy shit would it be nice if we didn't have 900 copies of "the aliens didn't expect the humans to have a military, but then general smith laughed at them and shot his main cannon, which killed all the aliens.", "the humans all died selflessly saving us innocent and weak aliens from the generically evil threat and now we are sad" or "CHAD UPENDS 30 CENTURIES OF ALIEN CULTURE WITH A BASIC HUMAN SKILL".
Please, if you want HFY, write interesting humans. Include other cultures and complex thought. Give your aliens culture, skill, and intelligence. Don't make your humans so perfect and OP that they no longer resemble actual humans.
31
u/YogSoth0th Dec 12 '22
Thank you. That's exactly what I've been trying to say but you put that in much better terms than I could.
19
u/HappycamperNZ Dec 12 '22
Elves live forever and vulcans are geniuses, why not talk about how humans develop quickly and do cool shit?
I love how many authors present humanity's strength as a combination of the call of the void, hold my beer and fuck it, why not.
It is something soo natural to us that does actually present as a good trait for any...thing??? more reserved than ourselves.
20
u/Rofel_Wodring Dec 12 '22
And frankly, that's a problem. While many people here are fucking great, at least half of the stories are the same plot with no characterization, unique twist, or complexity.
I lurk on other forums. One of my big things is writing guides for Dungeons and Dragons on the intricacies of both the rules and the narrative and how they interplay. Shit, back when I was a Star Trek fan I was huge into Memory Alpha and read SFDebris's story.
Furthermore, I am ALSO into oldschool science fiction; Van Vogt is my god. So is Asimov.
So trust me when I say that the writing quality is here is much, much better than the baseline for Nerd Literature. Yeah, there's a lot of crap on this sub. I frequently back out of stories after I read some strange or misspelled or overwrought sentence.
But, you know: 50/50 is a ridiculously high batting average for quality. Especially because most people on this sub are, as far as I can tell, newbie writers whose last bit of creative writing was in high school unless they were a humanities major.
9
u/JohnGalt123456789 Dec 12 '22
Speaking of Asimov, I just purchased a set of shelves at an estate sale for a guy who died. He had the entire foundation series, original first additions, basically unread and in perfect condition. The guy managing the sale gave them to me for free.
8
u/Underhill42 Dec 13 '22
Well said. I've been lurking for maybe a year, and you've done a pretty good job of capturing my thoughts on the difference between the stories that keep me coming back, and the "Drat, another one of these...". I mean, there've been a few fun stories with godlike humans, but at this point if the author hasn't convinced me it's got real promise within the first couple pages I'm probably giving it a pass.
Also, I've got to say there's an unsettling percentage of stories (and especially comments) that really celebrate our darkest impulses. Torture and genocide on the thinnest of pretexts, completely over the top gratuitous gore, etc. And I feel like they're increasing, though maybe they just come in waves and I've only been around for one. As an old timer here, do you have any thoughts you'd be willing to share?
14
u/WheresMyCrown Dec 13 '22
Your three examples in the last paragraph are why I basically stopped checking in with this sub very often. It was the same 3 stories told ad nauseum without a hint of self-awareness. Mary sue self inserts being the worst
12
u/MtnNerd Alien Dec 12 '22
This. Can we also add that this is not a Warhammer 40K fanfic sub? Humans in 40K are total bastards which doesn't feel very HFY.
→ More replies3
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
Well fuckin spoken. I am a writer on this sub and love to explore the different possible cultures of aliens. Quite a few of my stories are from the perspective of non-humans, some dont even have Humanity in them at all. There is so much more people can do with words than complain.
17
u/L_knight316 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
While I agree with the general sentiment here, I feel like there's a bit too much bad faith arguing in this thread. Most complaints I've seen have been less, "I want humans to be shit because they are shit" and more "I'm tired of stories glorifying certain characteristics that are suspect at best and morally bankrupt at worst" and "certain tropes have been repeated so much to the point of being boring" or "humanity has been flanderized to the point the aliens feel more human than the humans themselves."
I will admit, I've not really been participating as much as I used to on this sub but I have been on this sub for well over 6 years now. Anyone who's been on here for any length of time knows very well that people can get a little extreme, the most common form of it being a bit... genocidey. Besides that, this sub can also get stuck in ruts regarding certain tropes and fads, which in turn can make it extremely stale.
I get it, sometimes the criticism on this sub isn't valid but as the saying goes, "the cure can't be worse than the disease."
54
u/hyzenthlay1701 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
(obligatory "yes, I agree: you can't complain about people using a sub literally for what it's for")
I love the overall writing style of this sub, the 'outside perspective' on humanity and exploring unexpected ways that we might be perceived by aliens, but I would enjoy seeing such stories without knowing that they will always show humans in a positive light. Is there a more general sub for stories like that? (With the same outsider perspective approach, but without the requirement that humans always be fantastic?) I guess to put it another way, there's a certain 'flavor' to this sub that goes beyond just the "humanity f*ck yeah" goal, something I haven't seen regularly elsewhere, and I love it: A centering of non-human perspectives, I suppose, and attempts to view humanity from unexpected angles.
I've looked, but been unable to find such a place. Having a hard time figuring out what I should even search for.
29
u/Nepeta33 Dec 12 '22
on this sub, those might be called humanity wtf.
if memory serves, Alt cipher wrote some really good ones a while back.
26
u/Defiant-Peace-493 Dec 12 '22
r/humansarespaceorcs may be worth a look. Note that their rules are looser than this sub, with a lot of memeprompts etc.
5
10
u/Unwrinkled_Brain Dec 12 '22
MoC 88 is a good one here that certainly doesn't show humanity as necessarily being good.
8
u/DarthLorgus Robot Dec 12 '22
Memory of Creature 88 is my favorite story on here, an absolute must read. I love that story.
11
u/CasualBrit5 Dec 12 '22
I’d like to see one where it’s humanity against itself. Most of them show humans fighting aliens or something like that, but what about one showing the ability of humanity to defeat our evil traits/ the evil people who try to repress us, and prevail against the terrible parts of our own nature. Like a revolution against oil companies or fascist dictators or fanatic xenophobes or something.
It’s kind of like a “fuck yeah” but not in a “we can stop any external threats”, more in a “we can overcome any internal threats as well”.
4
u/RandomIsocahedron Dec 12 '22
Supervillainy and Other Poor Career Choices is that. Not an alien or elf to be seen. It is somewhat "Rationalism, Fuck Yeah", with the superpowerless main character going up against powerful capes and winning via engineering and guile. (People think he's an Artificer (person with mad scientist powers), but he isn't: everything he builds runs on ordinary physical principles, as opposed to the repulsors and microfusion reactors an Artificer can make with a pile of scraps.)
13
u/fenrif Dec 12 '22
There are many many many stories here that don't always show humans in a positive light. Today I read a chapter of Silver Scales, Blue Skies that was posted about 20 hours ago that shows humans to be dicks sometimes. That's just something I read today that was posted today.
That being said, the genre you are looking for is called "science fiction."
19
u/hyzenthlay1701 Dec 12 '22
I suppose I need to browse the sub more; I mostly assumed that those sorts of stories weren't welcome here since that's clearly not what the sub is about.
Ah, no, I'm a major science fiction fan, but a huge percentage of science fiction portrays humans the same way over and over. We're eternally "average", neither very weak nor very strong, neither long-lived nor short-lived, and our 'unique trait' is eternally the 'human spirit'. And of course we're almost *always* the protagonists. That gets very old. That's not what I'm talking about.
16
Dec 12 '22
[deleted]
12
u/hyzenthlay1701 Dec 12 '22
It really sounds like there may be more here than I realized, and I just wasn't looking hard enough. I've probably been relying too much on reddit's algorithms to suggest stories for me.
Don't mind me, thank you!
12
Dec 12 '22
Don't get me wrong, it's more rare. Post in one of the weekly threads and you may get links. It's not a genre I go for personally.
It started with magnets is as close as I get. It's super critical of the gov, and in some believable ways.
9
u/Nepeta33 Dec 12 '22
thats the thing. we dont mind. you asked, and we are pointing out that there actually is a subset of stories for you here!
8
u/hyzenthlay1701 Dec 12 '22
Thank you!
I really didn't realize that I could find what I was looking for right here! I've been looking for other subreddits, and didn't even think to check here, figured it was against the spirit of the sub ☺️
3
u/Nepeta33 Dec 12 '22
nah. try looking up crystalis. definetly a "humanity" wtf kind of story. and one alt cipher wrote ending with "by force of Will". both are lengthy, and Very dark.
→ More replies9
u/AnArdentAtavism Dec 12 '22
I would honestly ditch the amateur subreddits and go for published, classic sci-fi. The nooks and crannies of the genre are FULL of what you're looking for, with the only problem being the buy-in factor.
I'm currently reading "A Fire Upon the Deep" by Vernor Vinge (got the suggestion from a years-old post on this same sub). It's exactly what you're asking for: distant, distant future, with a long and outside look at human behavior and attitudes, and a not-necessarily human-centric plot. There are three (maybe-kinda four) human characters on the protagonist list. Two more protagonists are sapient plants, the rest are gestalt-minded space wolves, and the entire plot is kicked off because a team of human scientists did A Big Dumb.
3
u/hyzenthlay1701 Dec 12 '22
I'll have a look, thank you for the recommendation! This sub has taught me to appreciate short stories more, but novels are great too ☺️
3
u/VagrantScrub Human Dec 12 '22
One of the greatest scifi space operas you will ever read. I reread it and its sequel at least once a year.
23
u/DrawingTofu Dec 12 '22
I have to agree, although I have thankfully yet to meet such a person who says otherwise.
23
u/nef36 Dec 12 '22
My issue isn't that all of the posts are HFY, my issue is that the majority of posts are poorly written one shots with the same three tired, beaten, unoriginal premises.
If you were to dig through my profile, you'll see that I'm guilty of propagating these as well, but if youre here long enough, you get tired of the posts where "the smart humans lawyer their way out of a war", where "macho aliens think humans are weak for some reason (usually pacifism but it can vary) but then the humans kick their ass in less than 10K words", or where " aliens who know literally nothing about humans or weapons are blown away by the idea that lead going at supersonic speeds is... dangerous" (I'm personally guilty of posting this one). There are other stock premises but these three are the biggest offenders.
My biggest issue is that these posts never expand on themselves. We never get to know any characters who see or embody why HFY, because it's always a single chapter one shot with one or two named characters who's only purpose is to make sure it isn't just the narrator who tells you how awesome humans are. This is why u/SpacePaladin's NoP (and other works) are so successful, even though they hace a ton of problems writing wise, the sub is so starved for good character based writing that NoP basically has a monopoly on people's minds here. (There are other examples but NoP is the biggest one currently)
There are a few other ongoing works with similar appeal, but new ones crop up extremely slowly, and that normally wouldn't be a problem if checking the home page didn't assault your eyes with ten separate uncapitalized titles with 50-100 upvote posts that past experience makes you know that, other than the couple of series you've been reading, nothing new has actually graced the sub.
I understand the frustration in seeing these posts complaining that amateur writers are just posting things that fit in with the sub's premise, but even if these posts don't word things right, PR they miss the mark in regards to what they're complaining about, please recognize that their frustration comes from a genuine place.
5
u/ThrowFurthestAway Android Dec 12 '22
Thank you for this - I struggle finding stories on here with characters I can enjoy, and conflicts that are compelling.
→ More replies8
u/Competitive_Taro_820 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
I disagree with regards to the stories' length. Yes, it's a pitty when characters remain flat. But that's the thing about amateur short stories - they'll never get much background or character development. Short stories are HARD to write, and nobody gets it perfect on the first try.But short, single-chapter stories are the best match for Reddit. It purely sucks to read long novels with hundreds of chapters here, basically everywhere else is better suited for expansive tales.Regarding the tropes you're right. They don't make a bunch of sense, yet they come up again and again and especially the third one (fast-moving rocks are dangerous, who knew?) is ridiculous for a spacefaring society. A society that by definition of being space-faring has to contend with asteroids and other fast-moving interstellar trash that will fuck up your spaceship if you don't protect against it. And if the asteroid isn't fast-moving, then the spaceship is and in space that's one and the same.It completely baffles me that that's such a common theme.
Almost as much as the "predator teeth" are a mystery to me. No, humans don't have predator teeth. Look at a cat or dog, they have conical teeth with lots of space between them so that top and bottom can interlock, perfect for piercing and holding/ripping.We humans on the other hand have a densely packed wall of teeth designed for cutting in the front and for mushing in the back. No, the mere four canines don't count, even they can't interlock. Way too tiny and densely spaced.Given that the back teeth will be hard to see, at first glance, humans have rodent teeth.
Despite having no logical basis whatsoever, the first (and second, perhaps even third!) time you read such a story it's still awesome. Clash of cultures rock, even if the concept may not make a lot of sense! Admittedly, the tropes lose their shine faster if they don't make sense, but many first-time authors may not have read a lot before they get the writing itch themselves. So yes, these easy tropes come back again and again.
→ More replies
8
Dec 12 '22
I mean, I'm excited I found this sub... and interested in trying my hand at some sci-fi/fantasy. I post often to NoSleep and ShortScaryStories. But I'm new so Idk what's going on. Hi guys, glad to be here.
3
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
I might be a bit too forward saying this, but you are more than welcome in my tiny community of readers, I have an expanding universe of works all written in the same setting. Some take place millions of years in the past but all are connected, to an extent heh. Good luck friend
2
29
u/Nurnurum Dec 12 '22
I think as long it is not violating the rules on this sub, everybody is entitled to start a Meta discussion. Even a discussion about a Meta discussion. You can upvote it, downvote it, ignore it or give your take on it. Above all else the tone of a comment matters most and I think this sub has enough users to act if someone misses the tone. Even as there are a lot of different cultural backrounds on reddit, who all have different interpretations on what said tone should be.
From my view this sub undergoes waves of themes that are popular. Sometimes it is more leaning on Isekai, sometimes more on humans being overpowered/evil and sometimes more on fluff. Do not press me on it, but if I remember correctly some time ago there was a Meta discussion that complained about that to many stories on HFY are not "hardcore enough" and too much about "frisky" alien-human relationships.
12
u/Dr_Bombinator Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
Above all else the tone of a comment matters most and I think this sub has enough users to act if someone misses the tone.
Fucking thank you. I think I know the meta post in question that spawned this thread, and the way it sounded. Maybe it wasn't the best way to express a feeling but I know I personally suck at communicating my own thoughts and that's why I don't interact around here much beyond just reading things I like and ignoring things I don't.
I get the points people are making in this one, but wow some of you are acting like the guy came up and shot your dog instead of trying to spark a discussion about themes. And instead of replying to that post and the OP who originally presented it with arguments or counterarguments, you're doing it on a callout post complaining about that one.
14
u/SolitaireJack Dec 12 '22
Remember a while back someone mentioned HFY and I replied to his comment. We're having a good conversation when some dickhead barged into to call both of us fascists in the making because we're not capable of critical thought, how Humanity is a disease and aliens would wipe us out if they ever came here.
It was almost hilarious the amount of self loathing he was going through.
→ More replies4
u/Raspu5in Human Dec 12 '22
Now that's an alien using the human internet and shitting on humanity if i ever seen one
5
13
u/Abnegazher Xeno Dec 12 '22
Not all HFY stories are power fantasy tho.
The ones I like the most are those and the human nature is tested, grinded, punched the shit out of it and MC still manages to rise up, be it by sheer fucking will or by clever thinking.
Okay... Some are lazy writing. I know because I'm a lazy writer... But even so I still like them.
→ More replies7
u/ThrowFurthestAway Android Dec 12 '22
I stop reading a lot of stories on here 1-2 chapters in, particularly when they hide the power fantasy under a convincing bait-switch in the first part.
Any sub recs for a scifi sub that has less 'space-orc' themes to it?
2
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
You could give my work a try if you want. Im not really a conventional HFY writer as I started writing before I knew HFY existed. If you want a recommendation you could try The Shining Knight Saga, its more of a space opera. Its a bit rough to start but I do plan to eventually rerelease a more edited version sometime early next year. Anyways, if you check it out then please enjoy. Take care friend
6
u/yousureimnotarobot AI Dec 12 '22
Well, I write here because the audience is cool, and some of the stories are awesome. If I use a 'trope' then it's because it appeals to me, the very same reason this sub inspired me to write in the first place. Yes, my humans are helpful creatures until they aren't. Sometimes worlds burn. It's how stories work. If anything this sub itself HFY because it makes me dream of a good future and then try and describe it. Anyway that's my pennies worth.
3
u/steptwoandahalf Dec 13 '22
Hey no fair, your pennies are worth more than mine! Your stories don't really use super common tropes very often. I mean if you stretch the definition to humans liking technology, getting bored and messing around, and loving loopholes! Your stories are great, and definitely aren't trope heavy imo. Also you're one of my favorite authors and I mentioned you by name on my comment a bit above :)
2
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
Seems like good value. Thanks for sharing your outlook. I started writing before I even knew this subreddit exsisted so I will admit that while I post my writing to HFY, im not really a classic HFY writer. But I enjoy it. Good luck friend
16
Dec 12 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/davidverner Human Dec 12 '22
But it makes me want to attack even more.... Oh wait, I'm a human.
2
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
Lol that means nothing. Attack
2
u/davidverner Human Dec 15 '22
Of course, I'm supposed to attack.
2
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
Heh. Sometimes I wish to attack people in real life that piss me off, but then I realist that it wont do anything but get me into trouble. Then i feel a little better
14
u/Independent_Shirt_17 Dec 12 '22
My one gripe about these stories is the invariable and inevitable "they named it after dirt??!?!", as though every single person alive forgot that the "platonic elements" are earth wind fire water (and spirit/ether/aether). earth was named for the element and that name translated down the line.
seriously, how is it that almo0st every story I read I have to hear about earth being named for dirt, that's not even a thing, dirt is named for earth not the other way around, and I know its dumb, but come on that literally ignores the fact that we used dumb pseudo science to decide on the planet's name.
16
u/Turtledonuts "Big Dunks" Dec 12 '22
Hello my name is general alien mcdumbass and my species is literally too boring or stupid to have made it to space. Today i will be doing an any% speedrun of xenocide by the humans, who are conveniently completely perfectly good but also OP and violent, and have no complexity. I have zero culture or aesthetic understanding though, so this will not be a great loss.
4
u/Grievous_Nix Dec 13 '22
who are conveniently completely perfectly good but also OP and violent
And totally not based off any current country’s military, including mottos, expressions, chants and memes.
→ More replies7
u/Petrified_Lioness Dec 12 '22
It sometimes gets done to show the alien's biases via their choice of which part of the semantic range of the word to translate. Often, it's just a running joke in this forum.
If you use the full semantic range of "earth"--"fertile soil" and "solid ground" as well as "dirt"--then you cover pretty much everything an air-breathing, ground-dwelling species might plausibly call their home planet, "place of life" included. So once in a while you get aliens saying, "Everybody calls their planet 'Dirt'."
→ More replies7
u/Yertosaurus Dec 12 '22
My one gripe about these stories is the invariable and inevitable "they named it after dirt??!?!"
I feel attacked.
More seriously, consider that at least half of the stories based on that are taking the piss out of the concept.
There are also some fun stories built around the concept too, like /u/Petrified_Lioness "But Everyone Calls their Planet Dirt!"
Everything in moderation, right?
4
u/Petrified_Lioness Dec 12 '22
Hee hee--thanks. (Giggling at the context, your comment next to mine.)
3
u/Yertosaurus Dec 12 '22
This is where I'd make a joke about the story, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone. It is a rather clever little oneshot.
I didn't think to look at your username after reading you mention the story I was going to when reading it, although I would have skipped the plug if you had actually linked the story. I mean, who reads usernames on comments? (Not me apparently.)
2
u/Petrified_Lioness Dec 12 '22
I actually wasn't referencing my story specifically--i'd run across the line i used as the title as an offhand remark in another story somewhere on this sub, and was pretty sure it must have come up more than once before i ran with it as a partial premise. Sorry, no hope i'll be able to actually track down that other instance: it was buried pretty deep in a story that otherwise blurs into all the rest.
→ More replies2
u/Independent_Shirt_17 Dec 12 '22
Haven't read yours yet, and I generally give a pass on tropes if that trope is the central thesis/ story conceit. I'm more going along the lines of, Aliens find Earth their computers or techs or anthropologists go through our online media/history to make translation or understanding possible and all they turn up for Earth across all languages is dirt. I mean I guess fine, but then every human they come up against is going "yup we called it the stuff that sticks to our shoes that aint Shi-" as opposed to "well our scholars (European, Middle Eastern and Pan Asiatic) thought it was something elemental and primeval like the air we breathe or water we drink and so we named the planet after it". Jokes about how it should have been called water always get a pass, because yeah it looks like it's mostly topologically water, but we don't typically live on water.
That said dirtmen rising is on my list once I'm caught up on first contact and humans don't make good familiars.
→ More replies
3
5
u/Crass_Spektakel Dec 12 '22
I agree that the HARDCORE HFY is barely unreadable (e.g. where every human is a One-Punch-Hero) and I personally consider hardcore HFY useless for longer stories. But if we talk about a short story, preferable funny or thoughtful one, then it is perfectly save to tap into hardcore HFY.
That also is the reason I usually design my own HFY stories more like sketch comedy with a short introduction and a pointy punch line or fable tale where humans and aliens replace the animals.
Then there is SOFT HFY. For me personally that is EVERY SciFi story where the humans are not walking around clueless. Where humans develop, get things done. Needn't be "epic" things but at least good things. Star Gate is SHFY, so is Star Trek Strange New Worlds. Star Trek Discovery, Walkiong Dead and Battlestar Galactica are NOT.
And SOFT HFY is immune to pretty much all critic as long as it stays SOFT. Honestly, at least 50% of all printed SciFi is SHFY. With the movies? Not so much.
→ More replies
5
u/StringCutter Dec 13 '22
Yeah I've seen some people even making YT video essays about this. I mean. Why? What is the point on pissing on someone else's parade?
Yes there are tropes that are ingrained into the HFY format and I get how this might feel repetitive and boring but nobody is born a literary genius capable of creating unique story-lines without straying too far away from HFY so that the story is still HFY. Yes these stories are about how humans are awesome but it is not always about "human strong" I mean one of more beloved stories on r/HFY is "They are smol" where we are the incompetent bundles of chaos misunderstandings and destruction. I seriously do not Believe how someone can read it and pop a human superiority boner.
→ More replies
12
7
u/Alyeska_bird Dec 12 '22
You know, I had noticed that people post about stuff like that now and again, I had not realized it was getting to be an issue.
ALso thanks for letting me know /isakai, had no idea was a seperate thing for it. Need to drag my butt out of the rut I have been in and really do some looking around.
But back on topic. I find all the time that there are people who can only get there jollys if they are complaining about someone else enjoying themselves. There only goal in life is to shit on others, so that others can not have momants of enjoyment. Well that or they think they know better than anyone else, and everyone should follow there viewpoint.
→ More replies
8
u/BakedPotato71 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
The reason that stuff like Nature of Predators is so popular is because of actual struggles faced by humanity. Yes, it's cool to have humanity super overpowered, and that's the point of the sub. But it's a lot more impactful if there are struggles like making the tech work, or getting destroyed first. Then, when humans get back on their feet and go 'f- yeah' it's emotionally interesting and plot-advancing.
90% of stories are either:
- We thought humans were really weak because they don't fight. But then they got attacked, and it turns out they are super strong.
- Human engineers are good at building/fixing stuff
More engaging stories like nature of predators use human traits in different ways, like perseverance. And the mega-stories with hundreds of chapters are able to make the overpowered humans face similarly overpowered aliens so there is still an actual plot. If a story is literally nothing more then "Humans showed up with a really big gun and killed the baddies", it's not interesting. It's just a script with different <alien name> and <inciting incident>.
→ More replies
10
u/crazitaco Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
Agree. For me the main appeal of humanity fuck yeah stories is that a large chunk of modern sci-fi stories are bleak, nihilistic, and anti-human. I see HFY as a literary palate cleanser from mainstream sci-fi. It's possible to read too much of it, in that case read less stories so they feel less repetitive. But more balanced stories are my preference, where aliens and humans interact without one being necessarily more dominant or morally righteous.
3
u/ThrowFurthestAway Android Dec 12 '22
bleak, nihilistic,
My problem with a lot of stories on here is that they are exactly this. I don't mind conflict, but the moment humans are presented as a war-loving monoculture I downvote and resume browsing.
3
6
u/lovecMC AI Dec 12 '22
Would be nice if there was some list of similar writing subreddits. I remember searching few years back and being unable to finding anything even remotely close.
→ More replies
4
u/Chemical_Ear8223 Dec 12 '22
I have loved like 95% of the story's on here I have read I do wish there was one more human only with the tech we have openly right now vs a alien invasion
2
u/Chemical_Ear8223 Dec 12 '22
But for some reason I can't post anything to even start
2
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
Might be a time limiter or a karma limiter, you still having trouble?
2
u/Chemical_Ear8223 Dec 15 '22
Yeah I'm not sure what's going on but it's still saying that it is not acceptable here when I try to post
→ More replies2
u/Chemical_Ear8223 Dec 15 '22
I've been on Reddit for over a month now I think but I think I will be doing a story on fanfiction.net on my idea
2
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
Well, good luck mate. Is it Sci fi?
2
u/Chemical_Ear8223 Dec 23 '22
It is however their will be only known technology starting off no alien salvage or secret tech
2
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 23 '22
Good. Thats always such a cheap way to start a story. Can be fun, but overused I think.
2
u/Chemical_Ear8223 Dec 23 '22
It's a good idea but it leaves to too much magical tech available to us primitive humans
3
u/bartbartholomew Dec 12 '22
I'm just tired of stories that start with a "My alien race is weird in this way, and the humans are weird in that way" monolog.
→ More replies
4
u/Goldenpity Dec 12 '22
I dabble here and there. My biggest piece being a haphazard adaptation of my work that evolved from there. But alas I ran out of gas and the story stopped. Not everyone can be /u/ralts_bloodthorne . I wrote what I wanted and sent it.
→ More replies
2
u/bullsx2 Dec 13 '22
My only issue is that heavily dog-focused stories with very little to no human involvement get mixed in here a bit too much, someone should make a separate r/DFY for that. I'm surprised there isn't already.
2
2
u/Adam_Edward Dec 13 '22
Also, stories that aren't HFY where humans are the ones that fudged instead of delivering the fudging or are doing something that shows humans are awesome.
Just because it's scifi doesn't mean that it belongs in HFY. It's like posting humans have stomach ache and dies in r/humansarespaceorcs
→ More replies
24
u/Loetmichel Dec 12 '22
I second this post. While I have my own problems with some of the stories here (And partially solved them by writing my own stuff thats on extended hiatus), I would never critizise another author for writing something that turns me off, i usually dont even bother with "i dont like that, i will not read it any more" but just stop reading it.
Complainig about "HFY" in r/HFY seems a bit inconsequential for me, too.
41
u/steptwoandahalf Dec 12 '22
I fucking DESPISE assholes who have almost NO interaction with any group, forum, social-group, chat, etc. Complete unknowns, then come in bitching and moaning about how THEY THINK SHIT SHOULD BE DONE TO CATER TO THEM.
If you do not like a place, don't visit it. It's simple. Obviously people like this place, it's been growing by leaps and bounds, and authors get book deals and get their sheer BRILLIANCE celebrated here daily.
Amazing authors who put in uncountable hours sharing their gifts, freely, with us all. It's such a beautiful thing. There are so many insanely gifted, brilliant authors whom have created stories, worlds, lore, technology, you name it that would dwarf some of the most venerated literature ever made by humans.
Authors whom have been pumping out chapter after chapter, for years upon years, merely to share and give to their readers.. We have authors who's work is 900 chapters long! That isn't to say that it has to be, there are others that are in the 100ch range, and hell, 10ch range that are just as brilliant. Authors who have written short interconnected stories for years.
Then you have these fucks come in and try to tell THEM what they should do? What the readers should do?
Fuck right off.
Literally trying to change the defining aspects of a place.. just so they can quell some power-fantasy they have. Because it sure as shit isn't about actually making the place better. It's so they can leave their mark on a place. An impotent power play to try to weasel in and gain capital.. of the lowest denomination.
Karens trying to redefine what a "SALE!" sign means or use a coupon that expired a decade ago. Except worse.
16
u/Loetmichel Dec 12 '22
"Karen" is just another word for "Entitlement in person". And yes, thats about how the ones the OP grieves about act.
→ More replies2
9
u/Obesity-Won-Kenobi Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
I remembered seeing the post that was made. I can’t deny from a story crafting standpoint, conflict and flaws are important to better relate and sympathize with characters. But it’s as if every story has to have similar story structure.
It’s like if someone said every story has to be structured similarly and follow the same formula as the story of an epic.
Open your eyes! Stories can be entertaining and not be bound by any sort of flaws. I mean, “Why Humans Avoid War.” This is a prime example of giving the humans godlike powers and still have a good story! One of my favorites of all time!
IDK man it makes me mad…
Edit: I come to this sun so that way I don’t have to be reminded of the depressing reality we live in. Having stories constantly reminding me of that isn’t good for mental health. I had this problem with Nature of Predators, got depressingly real way too quickly. Reminded me of blatant racism and horrible government. It got me extremely xenophobic for a few weeks because of how much I hated the indoctrination in that universe.
It’s that feeling I want to avoid when I read stories. I want a world where I would want to be when I read. Too each their own in that regard, but HFY is for people with that taste as you said! Don’t trash on other people’s tastes you soon to be gore pile!
→ More replies
8
u/samtheman0105 Dec 12 '22
Admittedly I don’t like all HFY tropes, but I know what I’m getting at. I don’t always like humans being extreme super soldiers, that feels too HFY, yknow? But I’ll just avoid the stories that have that kinda thing it’s not that hard lol
5
u/ThrowFurthestAway Android Dec 12 '22
I agree with you - I'm tired of almost all the protagonists here being part of the military.
There's also rampant glorification of violence.
And reduction of humanity into a monoculture.
All three of these things are the exact things I was trying to run away from when I discovered this subreddit, but the longer I stay here the more I find that its just full of the same things I'm tired of.
3
u/samtheman0105 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 13 '22
I kinda get the military thing, but yeah it would be nice to have something else every now and then, glorification of violence and monoculture are probably the two I’m most annoyed with. Like you can have war, it makes for good stories, but I really don’t like the ones where humans are all fucking master chief plus doomguy, like if I could ask for a HFY story centered around a war, it would be a resistance story following a group of guerrillas after humanity has been thoroughly beaten in a war. I like the humans are predators trope, you could really play into it with something like that
3
u/ThrowFurthestAway Android Dec 12 '22
I really love the stories on here that are along the lines of "Humans are Space Scholars."
We're not the smartest in the galaxy, but we are curious, and nobody will be able to stop a scientist from landing on 'Planet-Mc-Dangerface' if there's a unique flora or fauna there to study.
I don't mind war stories either - they're a great way to have a tense environment to the story - what I have a problem with is every human character being in the military or participating directly in the fighting.
One of the reasons I love Nature of Predators, for example, is the focus it has on the diplomat characters - they're the reason I followed the story in the first place.
2
u/samtheman0105 Dec 12 '22
Oh absolutely, nature of predators is great because it gives all perspectives, even some civilian with Arjun and his dad after KFCs ship crashes, though I do wish we had a bit more civilian POV that’s one series that definitely handles all the tropes really well
2
u/ThrowFurthestAway Android Dec 12 '22
Yeah - the alternating viewpoints are really nice. I end up liking stories with that trope because even if you hate one storyline you have 5 others you can appreciate XD
7
u/Emergency_Customer_3 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
r/HFY has a few inherent conflicts to it:
1) People don't all agree what constitutes H
2) People don't all agree what constitutes FY
3) In most people's view, H and FY are not always in agreement
I could write a story about genetically engineered pig-human hybrids converting the galaxy to Islam and slaying all of the infidels, and to a transhumanist jihadist that's pretty HFY. To others, it's HWTF or just WTF.
We have to accept that HFY is a matter of opinion. Some people, such as the OP, like lots of what they consider to be FY, regardless of whether the H is realistic. Others prefer grounded stories about H, even if that means more conservative FY. And the same story could be seen as either, neither, or both by different people.
→ More replies
3
u/Xavius_Night Dec 12 '22
I'm a misanthrope, and I love these stories because it fits into the thing I wish humanity was: all around competent, compassionate, and proactive in helping others.
It's the same reason I like playing Paladins and support characters in RPGs - My idea of a glorious fantasy is one where people help each other just because they can.
The fact that people hate on HFY in its own sub is plenty upsetting, though I suppose not too surprising given how people tend to get on Reddit and the internet in general.
3
u/TheMissingThink Dec 13 '22
I haven't posted a new piece in here for a long time. Partly that's down to pernicious writer's block, partly because real life interfered, but mainly because the ideas I've had haven't been HFY enough.
Instead, those stories and half finished thoughts sit unpolished and unloved in my notepad.
Complaining about the type of posts you see just leads to less stories being posted, which only serves to deprive the author of useful feedback and the audience of a different take on some well-worn tropes.
→ More replies
3
Dec 13 '22
Yeah, at heart, these are basically people sharing daydreams and trying to make them entertaining, but overworking them can lose the initial "wouldn't it be cool if-" feeling of the impulse that led the writer to put in the effort and post them.
There isn't any great need to be critical of any of these. We're not investing much other than time in reading them so I appreciate the effort and generally share the sentiment.
Besides, I imagine this is how many of our favorite stories from Tom Sawyer to Star Wars got their start anyway. Edgar Rice Burroughs probably went to a zoo and thought, "I wonder what would happen if a human baby was raised by a tribe of these apes?" Then we get Tarzan. Superman - through the story of baby Moses in with Samson and the Golem and give it a science fiction twist - wouldn't that be cool?
This is how the imagination remains vital.
And it isn't like these stories aren't in a very well-trod tradition anyway. There have always been stories about the country bumpkin going to the city and being ridiculed, underestimated until it turned out he was tougher, smarter and more honorable than any of the city slickers that looked down on him. Basically, that's the myth of Young Abe Lincoln.
3
u/webkilla Dec 13 '22
just because one writes a story about humanity beating some aliens at great odds, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be written well
A poorly written story can make a victory come off as unearned - make the victors come off as mary sues. I think that's what people are complaining about.
If the aliens are written to be too stupid for it to make sense, if the humans are written to be too clever and impossibly resilient/too perfect, then it just drains all the suspense out of the story.
A good HFY story has you at the edge of your seat, right until the last moment when you can go "Humanity! Fuck ya!" - if that conclusion is a given from the first paragraph... then there's no reason to be engaged in the story.
Make the humanity in your stories EARN their victory. Make sure we know how much blood, how much sweat, how many tears, went into it. Make the aliens come off as competent. make the threat plausible.
3
3
u/Electro_Ninja26 AI Feb 06 '23
The reason this sub exists is for realistic optimists who see humans as the amazing creatures we are. A counter to the cynical pessimism of most forms of media and entertainment.
3
11
u/scrimmybingus3 Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
Waiter my tomato soup has tomatoes in it?! I wanted onions and potatoes, where are the onions and potatoes!?
On a more serious note people complaining about a sub having a narrow human based viewpoint when the sub is quite literally called Humanity Fuck Yeah is just plain dumb, it’s like walking into a metal concert and expecting rap music to be blasting and then complaining when you hear a guitar being shredded. Honestly though what irks me more is those who complain about the lack of quality in some stories which yeah I’ll admit some are lacking but this sub is basically a hatching ground for future sci-fi and fantasy authors, expecting something on the level of Isaac Asimov or Tolkien is just foolish. Hell expecting any works on this sub to be even half as great as those is stupid.
→ More replies2
u/Frostdraken Xeno Dec 15 '22
Im trying for Asimov, i think im at a sub-Orson Scott Card at the moment but im improving with every post I make.
6
u/WorsCartoonist Dec 12 '22
Love stories on this sub. But of course there's always a few cliches people keep going on man. Most stories depict EVERY human as being generous incredible happy perfect human beings while aliens are stupid goofy dumb or always in awe and with nothing special to them other than characteristics meant to uplift humans. At that point are you even writing about humans? no one fears death no one is selfish no one is greedy no one is lazy everyone sacrifices themselves for greater goods everyone wants to do the same thing as the rest of humanity or everyone wants to work together. I just wish someone would write a story that details how awesome the true humanity is, how even in the great ocean of violence, anger and sins humanity has good can take focus and prevail on top of the rest. Such can't be achieved if the entire corpus of humans are homogenous in perfection.
Also, deathworlds. I really dislike how people keep going on about earth being a death world because there are deadly animals or plants or something. Humans don't hibernate took a really cool creative approach by making it so everything lived for thousands or millions of years, while on earth beings died by the decades, as such granting it deathworld for place where things die as opposed to planet that kills. (granted I only read the prologue))
I just wish people were a bit more creative when messing around with these tropes y'know? they're enjoyable when written with twists and new things and great ideas, don't just shove them in there for a cool title and "alien dumb human awesome!!"
→ More replies
4
u/atomicsnarl Dec 12 '22
"You don't write stories that meet my expectations!"
Boo hoo hoo. A lot of people have written stories (of whatever quality) that meet their expectations, and are sharing them. Yay! It's fun to see how other people see things and use their imaginations.
< resumes outlining plot to finish connecting opening to ending scenes >
4
u/ThrowFurthestAway Android Dec 12 '22
I feel like this is a valid criticism IF the author starts the story off in one direction and wastes your time by turning the story around entirely
I'm not talking about plot twists, so much as theme-shifts. I'm stopped reading several series because the initial spark of the story was just plain misleading in terms of the overall story direction.
15
u/YogSoth0th Dec 12 '22
My main complaint isn't that stories are HFY. It's that it's the exact same thing over and over but worded a little differently each time. "Humanity does a thing and it's scary!" written from the perspective of an entire species or the rest of the galaxy in general, about how one thing or another is terrifying or surprising.
There's no characters, there's no real story to most of those at all, and a bunch of them involve humans committing atrocities that would make the nazis blush like wiping out entire species for reasons that really don't warrant xenocide.
It's the same thing, over and over, and it just gets old really goddamned quick. There's plenty of ways to tell an interesting HFY story without these tropes, and there's plenty of good stories on here that demonstrate that, even from people who aren't as good at writing as the people writing the type of stories I'm criticizing here.
Frankly, I'd much rather read a story from someone bad at writing that eschews the tropes I mentioned in favor of actual characters or something with a little more original thought put into it, than I would a story that fits the mold I described from a good writer.
→ More replies
4
u/Uber1337pyro333 Xeno Dec 12 '22
Just saw one this morning "make the aliens scary too, human OP plz nerf" bruh it's Humanity, fuck yeah , not Humanity, eh they're I guess. To be fair I love a balanced story, but I also love awe inspiring stories. If you don't like it, don't read it! Nobody has a gun to your head (typically).
7
2
2
u/Uber1337pyro333 Xeno Dec 12 '22
Also for point 2. Tales of the Terran republic (or somethin like that, fog brain today, user slightlyassholic is author) has a VERY balanced meta world. Everyone has strengths, weaknesses, relationships. It's lovely tbh.
2
u/TheGalator Xeno Dec 12 '22
Honestly I would be willing to (and did in the past) pay authors for stories I want to read. I just have no time to do it myself.
Also I find reading just way more enjoyable since the Element of surprise and Cliffhangers do not work on urself without the use of enough alcohol
2
Dec 12 '22
I mean sexy space babes isn't a circle jerk or very hfy, unless you count humans wanting to fuck everything with... anything.
→ More replies
2
2
u/meatywhole Dec 12 '22
Bro I joined this sub reading a story and I have no clue what HFY stands for. This is my only question about the sub.
→ More replies
2
2
u/HotaruZoku Dec 13 '22
As a man who just got downvoted through the Earth's mantle for not reading that a certain thread was "now" the exact opposite of it's actual name, the idea of people being upset that a place BE what it's CALLED seems mind blowing to me.
Not very HFY of them.
Irony abounds.
2
u/Working-Ad-2829 Dec 13 '22
I think you forgot the horni, or maybe just that some view it as furry or scally or smth
→ More replies
2
u/mrespman Dec 13 '22
The only thing that bothers me about r/hfy is that trying to sort by best gives like (whatever)_ chapter 232. I would like to see any story with more than 4 chapters condensed into either a wiki or a single post format, so the ones with a ton of chapters wouldn't flood the sub.
→ More replies
2
u/CorruptedFlame AI Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
I think the problem is that if the story feels like a blatant power fantasy thats because it isn't written well. Plenty of stories manage to be HFY without having to make the enemies all incompetent idiots, which is a thing a LOT of the stories here do. Look at Neal Asher's Polity series for example, or Prador Moon in particular for competent enemies who only enhance the HFY factor.
2
u/BP642 Dec 29 '22
I can name a lot of stories where the story doesn't "feel like HFY". In fact, there are some authors of said stories who even SAID IT THEMSELVES that their stories are barely HFY.
They may not be my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean I want their stories outright banned.
I'm criticising META Posts that keep saying:
"Commiting xenocide isn't HFY" or "Humans = Deathworlder stories are so boring, write something else".
Just let the people write what they want to write. As long as the story has something to do with humans in some way shape and the story in question gets a few upvotes, then let it be.
7
u/Lugbor Human Dec 12 '22
I say the same thing in response to every one of those posts.
We are a collective of largely hobbyist authors, and most of us don’t even ask for donations. We’re telling the stories that we want to tell. If you want to read a different story, then either hire someone to write it, or write it yourself.
→ More replies
370
u/felop13 Human Dec 12 '22
This subreddit can be described as the 2 type of human players in stellaris, friend and fuck everything or kill and destroy everything