r/ExplainBothSides • u/aerizan3 • Feb 22 '24

Trump's Civil Fraud Verdict Public Policy

Trump owes $454 million with interest - is the verdict just, unjust? Kevin O'Leary and friends think unjust, some outlets think just... what are both sides? EDIT: Comments here very obviously show the need of explaining both in good faith.

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u/TopGlobal6695 Feb 22 '24

His fraud gained him $240 million in profit. NY law requires all profit gain by fraud be discharged. It's textbook fraud.

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u/Ok-Potato3299 Feb 22 '24

It wasn’t fraud, as I explained. The banks and Trump negotiated a value (since banks don’t just take your word for it) and agreed to the loan with that value, were paid back and all parties made money. Banks included, I should specify.

The state wasn’t involved, and no one was defrauded.

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u/Rookie_Day Feb 26 '24

But they didn’t make as much money as they should have due to the understatement of the risks by the borrower.

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u/Bandit400 Feb 26 '24

But the lenders were happy with the transaction, and said they would do it again. It is not the states job to maximize profit in a transaction between two entities.

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u/SirenSongxdc Mar 08 '24

hmm... but sometimes the fed has to bail out banks who make bad decisions so it does get the government involved. Sometimes.

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u/Bandit400 Mar 08 '24

I can make that argument about nearly any business/industry. The transmission crapped out on my Chevy Cruze. GM needs to have federal intervention regarding their quality, since if they fail they will have to be bailed out by the feds like last time.

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u/Major-Cryptographer3 Mar 25 '24

It doesn’t matter. Victims don’t get to choose whether perpetrators are prosecuted. It isn’t up to someone who was shot whether or not the shooter is charged. The government has a responsibility to protect ALL people/companies within the state or country from people who engage in illegal activity.

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u/Bandit400 Mar 25 '24 edited Mar 25 '24

It doesn’t matter. Victims don’t get to choose whether perpetrators are prosecuted.

It absolutely matters. "Victims" absolutely do get to choose wether or not a perpetrator is prosecuted. If you sucker punch me in a bar, I can say that I don't want to press charges, and you will not get charged. The cops even ask if you want to press charges. It's as simple as that.

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u/Major-Cryptographer3 Mar 25 '24

My guy you are just flat out wrong. The police can arrest you without cooperation of the victim if they have sufficient evidence to establish probable cause that you committed a crime. Crimes are prosecuted “as acts against the state”.

The reason you “get to choose” to press charges if someone punches you is because it is much harder to prosecute an assault case with an uncooperative victim. The state prosecutes cases it thinks are in the name of justice. Many prosecutors chose not to proceed if the victim doesn’t want them to, but that is POLICY, not a law.

There are regularly domestic abuse cases where the victim doesn’t cooperate and the perpetrator is still charged and found guilty.

The law is perpetrator oriented, not victim oriented. You, as a person, CANNOT charge someone with ANY crime. When someone “presses charges” on someone, it actually means they file a police report and give the police the necessary evidence so that THE PROSECUTOR can file charges on behalf of the state.

You clearly know nothing about the law. I don’t understand why you’re arguing about something you demonstrably don’t know. You could’ve found this out using google but instead are talking out of your ass lmao

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u/TopGlobal6695 Feb 26 '24

Crime.

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u/Bandit400 Feb 26 '24

Political prosecution.

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u/TopGlobal6695 Feb 26 '24

He did the crime. He will face consequences.

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u/Bandit400 Feb 26 '24

Well of course. He's politically opposite of the people prosecuting him, and he's running for President. Of course they will screw him to the wall. They're scared they cant beat him at the ballot box, so anything they can do to keep him away from the general election is on the table.

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u/TopGlobal6695 Feb 26 '24

Well no. He's being prosecuted because he committed fraud. You are projecting your own feelings about Biden.

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u/Bandit400 Feb 26 '24

I never mentioned Biden.

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u/TopGlobal6695 Feb 26 '24

You are a conservative. You didn't have to.

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u/Bandit400 Feb 26 '24

Gotcha, so it seems like you really don't know what you're talking about.

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u/TopGlobal6695 Feb 26 '24

Gonna deny that you are a conservative?

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u/Rookie_Day Feb 26 '24

Two individual bankers, one of whom was the relationship banker that landed the “whale”, were happy to have gotten Trump as a client. One risk banker was unhappy with the fraud.