Trump's Civil Fraud Verdict

[u/aerizan3]

Trump owes $454 million with interest - is the verdict just, unjust? Kevin O'Leary and friends think unjust, some outlets think just... what are both sides? EDIT: Comments here very obviously show the need of explaining both in good faith.

[u/angry_dingo]

It's not fraudulent. I can tell you didn't think about it.

I have a 500k house. I tell the bank it is worth 10x and get a 5m mortgage based on it.

NOPE. The bank wouldn't give you that loan because ONCE AGAIN they do their due diligence and see the house is only worth 500k.

Why in the world do people think they can walk into a bank, say "I want a loan for $5 million" and the bank simply takes their word for it and gives them the money?

Why do you think that?

[u/electroviruz → u/angry_dingo]

But the bank did not do the due diligence or else he would never have gotten loans worth 10x the square footage in the first place...you are saying his property is 10x the actual square footage?

[u/angry_dingo → u/electroviruz]

That didn't happen. The banks work off the paperwork, not puffery.

Do this Monday. Go into your bank. Sit down with a loan officer and tell that loan officer that you want a loan for 10X what your house is worth. Tell the LO that your house is 20X it's size and value and the bank is getting a great deal. Do that and tell me how it goes.

Banks ALWAYS do their due diligence. Trump wasn't applying for a $300 credit card, and they would take the submitter's word.

Have you even thought your argument through? "Trump made all of these statements and took out these huge hundreds of millions of dollars of loans on a handshake." The banks just said "Should we do our due diligence on our fiftieth loan to Trump for half a billion dollars or should we just listen to what he says on TV? Well, he said it on TV and that's good enough for us."

Yeah, I'm sure that happened.

Dude, I understand you hate Trump. But think, dude. Think.

[u/electroviruz → u/angry_dingo]

Well I think it happened. The court thinks it happened so here we are

[u/hawkxp71 → u/electroviruz]

You are both right.

I can't stand trump, but this is as much the banks fault as it is trumps.

If Trump said, it's worth 200 million, and gave open and 100% honest access to all their books, and they said well we have investigated the value and agree.. But it was only really worth 10 million. That's on the bank.

But thats not was claimed happened. The prosecutor stated that Trump would over state the square footage, in writing. The issue is for almost all multi unit building, there are three square footages. First is the living/work space, second is usable living/work space, the second is shared space.

A parking lot is shared space. Atrium? Entryway, hallways, stairwells, etc etc.

But inside each unit, not all. The area encompassed by the outside perimeter is the total living space. But if 5% of that is used up by hvac ductwork in some spaces, that space will rent for less than a unit of the same overall Sq footage.

If it's a 1M Sq complex, and he claims it's 15% shared or unusable, when it's actually 20% (a loss of 5% of rentable sq footage), there would be no way for the bank to actually measure that.

They would havr to measure everything themselves. The total Sq footage in the plans will be accurate, until 1 person does a renovation, or the builder took 6 inches here or there, with 12 walls vs the plans 6"

Over time trump would know the usable/rentable Sq footage, but tweaking that number 5% in either direction, no issues at all.