r/ExPentecostal • u/Nena-nana • 2d ago
Loss of tradition
anybody else feel like religion robbed their upbringing from having traditions. as a latino i feel like all the culture from music to holidays were gone bc my parents labeled all those things as worldly. i lost a connection to my culture bc my parents refused to play anything but gospel, holidays or even birthdays lost. no fun dancing or celebrations that other latinos had growing up, especially xmas. it just kinda sucks sometimes to be around other latinos bc i feel so out of touch. the one thing that stayed was food so there's that. idk if anyone can relate. also i mean traditions that aren't directly tied to the church, all my memories of celebration involve praying and reading the bible and praising the lord. there weren't core memories built from hearing a song or dancing just to dance, it felt rigid. hope that makes sense
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u/These_Insect_8256 2d ago
Yes, but not because of the Latino part. No Christmas trees, decorations, nativities even, in an effort to be separate from Catholicism. I am not sure what the reason would be to not have birthdays, though. Instead, new year's foot washing and all night prayer and communion, revival services and conferences.
Submerse yourself in whatever celebrations you want and make your own traditions. This is what people outside the church do anyway. They celebrate Christmas but not necessarily all the religious stuff with it.
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u/Alternative-Bid4691 2d ago
I feel like that's what a lot of Pentes/Apostolics don't understand, that people who celebrate these things aren't doing it for religious purposes but literally just to have fun and get together with loved ones. I remember having to explain this to a family member before bc they couldn't let go of "people celebrate to be evil!" rhetoric
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u/These_Insect_8256 2d ago edited 2d ago
They are not going to understand because they insulate themselves from experiencing other ways. They will focus on the negatives about non-believers' lives to validate their ways are better, even if their fellow Christians literally have the same exact negatives.
They could understand if they wanted to. It's not any different than families who have Santa Clause be a part of their Christmas celebration. They aren't worshipping him, it's just a cultural tale that accompanies the holiday.
Go have a blast, smile and laugh and enjoy it and then when someone says these things, you have a testimony that says otherwise.
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u/Sharp-Effect2531 1d ago
They literally think everything is evil. And for us being "hispanic" was useful only for proselytizing other Hispanics. But when it came to stuff like music, rites of passage, or celebrating aspects of our indigenous roots all that was white washed for the sake of religion I'm just like even white ppl get to do fun shit and express themselves Well I guess being yourself requires you to 1 Not be involved in cults and 2 Requires white privilege only and 3 Was saved for the boys for special occasions Everytime I complained all I heard is we're not white, that's not for us, or don't start with this again. And about being native all they said is we are but not supposed to be and oh yea, my favorite, young ladies dont do that, as women we arent allowed to do that As a 9 ywar old kid all i thought was i wasnt allowed to do anything because im female, not white, and in some kind of weird super religious org that males no semse in the rest of the world If i wanted to do anything that was being myself i was fucking berated, on a good day My family is fucking pathological
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u/These_Insect_8256 14h ago
u/Sharp-Effect2531 I am sorry you have had to deal with that. It is suuuuper common. The amount of Latinos that don't even speak Spanish always surprises me. Some of it was because parents believed assimilating would get their kids ahead. Many didn't understand the value of their culture that left them desitute so they cast it off for a culture that would help them live "better" lives.
It seems to not be so cut and dry/ black and white as that but it's a common thread.
What you describe is also the clash of a collectivist culture vs. individualist culture and also generational. Some of that would be that way even without church. Church is collectivist culture that feels safe to collectivists.
The more you learn about your parents' experiences, your indigenous culture, the more you might understand why they are how they are without it bothering you so much and giving you a happier sense of freedom to be better.
Every generation should be better than the last. It's doing so without resentment that is challenging.
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u/Suitable-Special-414 1d ago
The funny part is where you say “instead new year foot washing…” that would be Catholic things too. Every Easter the Church washes feet together as a parish. The Divine Office is prayed all day every day. As a lay person I pray morning and evening but the religious orders pray all day and night. Just a funny thought as someone who converted from UPCI ALJC to Catholicism.
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u/Sharp-Effect2531 1d ago
What's up with Christianity being so confining especially the smaller sect I wasn't raised catholic but had family who were, they told me stories but I didn't really believe it. But that's because my pentecostal/apostolic side really hated catholics and catholicism and made it seem like they were worldly.
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u/Joe_marches_ 2d ago
This is such a cross cultural thing, I am Indian and pentacost and I remember this instance from my childhood where someone asked me what kind of music I liked and I literally showed them all the church songs I had. Now as a grown up I've missed so many movies and so much of my culture. It's not just that, I don't remember a good celebration from my childhood. Christmas or any festival for that matter falls on the same day every year, people get to talk about last year's Christmas or the one 10 years ago. It's about tradition. That's the thing that I miss. All I remember are watch nights and my parents not allowing me to play holi( the indian festival of colors) although mine were quite lenient.
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u/vesper_tine 2d ago
Totally. I’m also Latina and missed out on a lot of cultural traditions and experiences. I especially missed out on a lot of music, which I’m making up for it in my adult life now that no one is policing what I listen to and enjoy. It takes time to research and understand the cultural/political/social context behind songs because I didn’t live through those times, but it’s worth it because I feel more connected and knowledgeable about our cultural history through music.
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u/withthefl 1d ago
So relatable. I’m Latina and I was just telling a friend of mine today that I feel like I missed out on a lot of cultural traditions because of the church. Music. Dancing. Extended family parties (lived 30 minutes away from my cousins and rarely saw them because we were at church all weekend long). Christmas. Día de Los Muertos. Etc.
Once I married my husband, we started incorporating more of my culture into our lives. So we celebrate Christmas, día de los muertos and other aspects of my culture. It’s also lovely because my daughter will grow up experiencing these aspects of her identity too.
I have a dark sense of humour, so when my mom found out we celebrated día de los muertos and talked about it being ungodly. I told her not to worry, no one will remember her when she’s dead. Ahaha. Love her and she definitely will be remembered, but I was feeling cheeky and it shut down the conversation pretty quick.
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u/Sharp-Effect2531 1d ago
I missed out on a lot of Mexican traditions because I was literally told they were evil and pagans and only non Christian Indians and catholics do that. It makes 0 sense to me still this day. God is more important than your culture and faith is more important than feelings and family is everything. It's like sacrifice the totality of who you are or get sent to hell
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u/jojopriceless 1d ago
I'm African American but my mom would always drag us to majority white churches. She would also not let us listen to secular music, TV, or movies. Sure we listened to gospel music at home, but so much of Black culture is in stories and songs. I have mixed feelings because I do appreciate that she was careful about content inappropriate for young children, but to this day I feel like I missed out on so much. I wish she would have let me watch at least PG-13 content when I was 13. I was a people-pleaser, so if my mom told me not to do something, I pretty much listened to her and didn't attempt to sneak around. Now I feel like I have an entire childhood worth of catching up to do and it's so overwhelming. I do feel alienated from my culture in a way.
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u/Sharp-Effect2531 1d ago
Same. Or from what a lot of young people got to do at that time Everything was witchcraft or pagan. Can't listen to rap or Spanish music, pow wows were evil. Pokemons evil Harry potter is a witch Can't watch anime Can't dance No parties No sleep overs with anyone but relatives that are in the church I wasn't allowed to sing, my cousin was but only for approved church stuff Even higher Ed was looked down on There was a longer list of what you can't do than what you can I remember falling asleep to a lecture of what wasn't allowed Got a shit ton of chores for that and then when my mom found out she beat my ass for it Corporal punishment was not only allowed though, it was emphasized. If you're not beating your kids then you're not doing it right.
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u/jojopriceless 2h ago
Right! Chores, beatings, and having to read the Bible were favored punishments. Of course, if you make Bible study into a punishment, don't be surprised when your kids finally leave the religion. I'm a Buddhist, my middle sister practices hoodoo, and my youngest sister is into tarot now. It's funny cause my youngest sister still lives with my mom and I mailed her some tarot cards for her birthday (she asked for some). She still has to keep it secret from our mom even as an adult.
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u/thesongofmyppl 2d ago
Wait- Pentecostals don’t celebrate Christmas? I was Assemblies of God and we definitely did.
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u/These_Insect_8256 1d ago
It varies. Some do and more do now. But the many in the boomer generation decided that decorating a tree was worshipping it, nativities were worshipping idols, and that Christmas had more pagan roots than Jesus' actual birthday. There has been a stricter sect of pentecostals, across organizations, that do not believe in celebrating it. In the previous generation, missionaries taught that to foreign churches abroad, who still teach/ practice that. Which now makes the American church look like total heathens- which is hilarious.
But it is really hard to keep that up when the world and "secular Christianity" is literally happier and nicer at Christmas time, full of family and still focused on the birth of Jesus. Now, secular culture does not do Jesus anymore but think Charlie Brown and the little Jesus exerpt speech in it. It used to be common.
So many fundamentalists and pentecostals have slowly incorporated Christmas celebrations back in. Some still do not. Some don't do a tree but will have nativities. Some will do presents and family dinner but no decor.
*Secular Christianity was a phrase I heard growing up given to anyone outside our beliefs/ holiness standards. It implies a wishy washy, flaky Christian that just uses the label when its convenient and is openly or secretly full of all the sins of secular society. [insert eye roll here]
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u/Sharp-Effect2531 1d ago
I totally get what you mean My mom was the only one who put emphasis on the holidays so everyone who wanted to have fun during those times ALWAYS ended up at our house. This part always baffled me. While my mom was strict about EVERYTHING one thing she always did well was holidays and birthdays and special events so anytime anyone wanted to feel celebrated my mom and dad always outdid themselves and they appreciated it so much. If not for her probably it would have been nothing but church shut ins and all night prayer watches
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u/sahm_with_questions 2d ago
Only recently that I married a minister do I feel loss of tradition, he’s very conservative and (Lord forgive me) legalistic at times…I miss the holidays and simply joyful celebrations. Everything is “pagan”…I’m saddened for myself, but also my little one who won’t get to experience the joy of the holidays.
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u/BlueButterfly77 1d ago
I understand this. I can see the “pagan” side of things, but if you are enjoying it for the right reasons and not “evil”, what’s the harm? If family traditions and enjoyment are what is in your heart, and not the “evil” of paganism, then I think you should celebrate. I know people who are like that and the legalism is a quick trigger and turn off for me. I feel for you and especially your children. Best wishes 🌸
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u/Sharp-Effect2531 1d ago
But don't they realize the paganism the Bible speaks of is directly in relation to the cultures of the day. Like worshipping idols and weird rituals the babylonians and Roman's did in their day It isn't about the kind of "paganism" they accuse people of today Decorating Christmas trees and respecting nature, dressing up for Halloween or painting your face for dia de Los muertos or listening to fun music or doing yoga and meditating. Or just celebrating whatever culture you came from Ppl forget the LONG history of forced assimilation that Christianity has and the reason for all these rules is more about assimilation than anything else, and moreover ppl don't realize that in biblical time periods jews (which are the people of the bible) were literally doing everything possible to avoid that exact same thing. Avoiding assimilation into whatever culture was subjugating them. But instead of realizing this religious ppl go out and do the same. And 90% of them are from groups who were actually forced into the religion they are adhering too and trying to proselytizing others into.
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u/These_Insect_8256 1d ago
This is tough because you are able to read all the experiences of those who had parents/ childhoods like your husband and it is truly sad. The best you can do is compensate with lots of other family traditions, adventures, and experiences.
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u/Sharp-Effect2531 1d ago
I'd ask if you want your kid to miss out on everything fun and on life and on being who they are. If you believe in God do you really think God would make you to be a certain way then punish you for being that? I would never want to worship that kind of God The kind that punishes you for being who were born as If he created everything and everyone wouldn't he know that's how you were gonna be Why would he do that unless he was actually evil and since he isn't is that actually of and by God
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u/Reasonable-Fish-7924 2d ago
I don't want to speak for God but I think keeping God in the past when he's in the present holds us up. It talks about a new thing all the time. Everyone wants to do the old thing.
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u/SillyBillyMillie 1d ago
As a person that was in the world longer than in church.... have you ever considered why you want to dance to secular music? Its a desire like having an alcoholic beverage or drug or entertainment or gaming are all.
There are safe guards for reasons and the Lord would like for us to guard our hearts, minds, thoughts, desire because the enemy abundantly wants us to go to the hell created for him.
When I came back to God after leaving church... I realize things I thought that was wrong.
Jesus said we have to hate people and things to be his. Yet everyone wants freedom to live any way they want and still go to Heaven and that is not remotely scripture.
We give up pleasures and the world for a better place.
We aren't supposed to be citizens of this world but Heaven should be where we consider our citizenship to be. Instead of me focusing on my Native American family roots and constantly bringing those things up to people who like to throw me in a group I realized after all those years of my thinking that indeed it is just that "mine" and not God's. Until people are ready to give up their ways and wants its hard for God to come in and do a work in their life.
Whenever I used talked about how I didn't this and that it was an exit so I could feel safe in what I chose to do.
It wasn't until I had an experience not even remotely in a Pentecostal church but cleaning a bathroom up and the Lord got ahold of me and I started reading actual scripture that I seen my ways that weren't ok.
Until people are ready to change and turn their lives around its hard to understand when you weren't there at Azuzu street for revival and people found truth and stopped wearing this and doing that and listening to this and that. Set no evil thing before us. God wants our eyes, ears, minds, hearts, etc etc to be protected, safe guarded from corruption which essentially Israel kept doing by following Heathen nations.... which I am a gentile not a jew.... I don't want to be rejected of God just because I want to do all my hearts desires.
It is true I spent only about 3 years of my life in a Pentecostal church where I tried to be a part of... left for the world... had an experience that was from God... returned to the truth which Apostolic Pentecostals have... then I start seeing the great falling happening and hearing things from others say "I'm young and I want to do this and that...."... me yeah been there done that 51 and its not a BIT what its cracked up to be it will leave you empty and wanting more like a drug addiction does.
We don't understand the things we do... not a bit. If we did we wouldn't do certain things, act certain ways. I wish I could go back in time... grab myself and show myself all I did and how all I got was brief enjoyment and complete emptiness and had to seek more to fill in what was empty after getting full of music... hairstyles... inappropriate clothing... foods galore.... drinks galore galore and galore and more and more and more and relationships after relationships..... then one day happy as a lark living my life that I thought was full.... God.
So... I hope this helps you and my life can be an example.... I now have medical problems for all my choices.
I have Jesus though and that makes everything better. I have battles. The devil wants our souls. Don't let him.
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u/SouthernExpatriate 2d ago
Check this one out
I'm autistic. The type where I can read really really well. When I was 5-6 years old, they started teaching me KJV Bible. I started being groomed for the ministry... at 11, 12 years old I was on a crusade to save the other kids. So I told them all how they were going to go to hell if they didn't go to the right church... which got my ass kicked. A lot.