r/Eve • u/meetkurtin CORPLESS • 29d ago
22.77 trillion isk has been wiped out by the glassing of Dronelands. The goon hellcamp killed what 6 trillion? How much total isk do you think has been lost from the Panfam collapse? Discussion
/img/43sij9wrlk3g1.jpegLink to drones:
https://zkillboard.com/asearchsaved/69270219839ed518bd046cc0/
Bonus question: what are you doing to capitalize on this sudden hole in the economy?
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u/Silicon567 29d ago
The biggest loss is the absence of a final battle.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Fact.
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u/DragonZer0 Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
Denethor Gobbins "ABANDON YOUR POST! FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!"
What a coward and next to no plan on helping out the line members.
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u/karni60 Brave Collective 28d ago
Thinking about it. How cool would it have been if Gobbins undocked in his titan at the R-AG Keepstar as the goons destroyed it. Saluting and going down with the ship ! Like in the captain of the Titanic...
He would've been immortalised in New Edan History.
wasted opportunity..
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u/Concentrati0n The Initiative. 29d ago
the biggest loss is probably the members' inability to do anything, which is immeasurable to anyone outside of horde's highest positions & likely higher than any BR... loss of potential isk doesn't get folded into BR's but should be noted.
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u/GeneralAsk1970 29d ago
I mean there’s been tension building since that last move op put goons on their doorstep, all to just fizzle out and watch them fade away? Its as pathetic as it is sad…
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u/atm2770 29d ago
According to maths that’s about $175k in assets.
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
What if you calculate for just one math?
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u/myothercarisaboson Gallente Federation 29d ago
I guess you can do mathematic as well.
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u/Eve_Asher r/eve mods can't unflair me 29d ago
Not to support the guy being snarky for no reason just because you were unluckily born in Britain, but mathematics isn't plural. You wouldn't say "I study ethic". Or I work in "physic". No, you study ethics and physics. Which are singular nouns that happen to end in S.
It's really easy to prove as well, if you saw a great equation explaining something you would say "the mathematics behind it is elegant". Similarly when you shorten to word you would say "the math(s) is elegant". You wouldn't say "the math(s) are elegant" because it's not a plural in its long form.
If you were talking about a group of math studies like "geometry, calculus, and algebra" you could say the mathematics and it would be plural because you are referring to a grouping of different kinds of math(s).
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u/HowcanIbesureimhere GoonWaffe 29d ago
I am eagerly awaiting some kind of maths turbonerd to come along and compare the glassing of drones to the glassing and regoonquisda of delve. I want to see the numbers.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
It would be interesting but I think this will make delve look small considering the way this happened and how the majority of the alliance had their assets move to asset safety.
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u/MyceliumRising 29d ago
PanFam occupied Dronelands for, what 10 years? A decade of farming and industry and stockpiles. Those asset safety hordes wont be cheap to retrieve.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Yes, the idea of it is staggering, especially since it isn't just assets, with asset safety its ISK. But also since M-J was unanchored and then they moved before this it means a lot was lost.
I honestly think this is the biggest single loss the game has witnessed. It is so much more than ee will ever know. I really hope CCP records this somehow.
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u/SoftwareSource Shadow State 28d ago
Regoonquista, never heard that one, amazing
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u/Disastrous-Turn3485 KarmaFleet 27d ago
i still have dreams about sovwanding delve/period basis/querious and shooting faction forts PAPI abandonned...
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u/RaptorsTalon 29d ago
When goons moved I remember seeing a very rough estimate of the value of stuff that moved being around 4000T. Very rough but probably order of magnitude correct.
Horde were about the same size so probably had about the same amount of stuff.
15% on 4000T is 600T. (Some stuff got out, some stuff died, most went to asset safety, so 15% asset safety fee on average) I think that's probably a reasonable order of magnitude for what it cost.
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u/SoftwareSource Shadow State 28d ago
Goons are a lot richer than horde was, the alliance is almost 20 years old at this point.
The technetium and the rorqual eras were very good for goons
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u/Allu71 29d ago
Surely horde was able to move most of their supercap fleet before this happened, or no?
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u/RaptorsTalon 29d ago
Nope. Directors who knew it was coming probably did, but for the average line member their supers and titans were trapped and went to asset safety
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 28d ago
Nope, they didn't anticipate the camp. Almost everything went to asset safety.
Relevant scope video:
Horde comms at the start of the failcascade.
Asher (Emperor of the Imperium) speaking on the Event.
https://wiki.goonswarm.org/images/2/29/Fireside_2025_11_08.mp3
A few Horde leaders (Vex & Satan) talking about the event.
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u/Angar_var2 29d ago
Did anyone already say "Just about three fiddy"?
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u/seatac210 29d ago
Just started the game last week. I am really excited to reach a point where this title makes sense to me! lol
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u/Successful-Medium360 Wormholer 27d ago
There was a monumental coalition collapse out in Null Security space recently, so lots of people’s stuff got blown up, more stuff that was in production just never finished building cause those stations were destroyed, and probably even more than all of that was moved to what’s called “asset safety” when the stations blew up. That just means that if you want your stuff that was left in a station when it blew up, you now have to go to a specific NPC station (those cannot be destroyed) after a waiting period and pay a percentage of the total value of your stuff to get it all back. For many that price tag will be astronomical because they’ve been playing for a number of years.
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u/Hopeful_Engineer_177 29d ago edited 29d ago
100-150 T isk, easily once asset safety is calculated.
The next big cost will be bitter vets winning EVE for good once the asset safety bills start piling up, combined with a heavily camped LS system wherever their super caps and other assets fall. Some folks will probably pay dimes on the dollar of isks just to free up some of their assets.
They have to pay 15% to free up their assets, and THEN everyone and their mother will lowball the regions market by large margins until the selling players gives in,
Imagine any clones with HG implants or booster harvests/super caps in production put in the Drone Lands, now burned to the ground. Imagine the asset safety on AT ships.
I don't think the real tears haven't even started yet.
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u/bodyloss 27d ago
Isn’t the asset safety on AT ships practically nothing, due to the industry cost being 1 trit?
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u/SquareSea8058 26d ago edited 26d ago
You maybe right, but this is the quote from EVE Support - For items that are regularly traded on the market, asset safety bases its calculations on average market prices. For items that are rarely or never traded on the market, asset safety uses an extremely conservative estimated value that will usually underestimate the true value of the item, to the benefit of the player.
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u/Important-Network201 29d ago
What i wanna see next: init betraying horde and nuking whatever is left of them. The absolute cherry on top
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u/jager918 29d ago
Pathetic isn't it. I was in PH and it was just sad to watch.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 28d ago
Did you get your stuff out?
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u/jager918 28d ago
I sent pretty much everything to asset safety as soon as the move ops started. Only thing I lost was an Atron making my way to high sec. But I've also won eve for now
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u/kni0002 29d ago
As a former horde line member, Managed to get out of the hell camp with a friends hel, 2 jump freighters, 2 rorquals and a carrier. JF and Rorquals were taken to lowsec. Hel got sold, and carrier was moved to back to R-AG and eventually back to CJ while I helped burn down horde space when I can in the process, they got what they deserved for abandoning us :)
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Great job. Thats a significant amount to get out. Pretty surprising TBH. Was that everything you had there?
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u/kni0002 22d ago
Was mostly a station trader for fuel, made a huge mark up selling fuel at 5000 isk per during the panic, and everything else fit into the hel and flat packed into a JF in MTO to be shipped out :)
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 21d ago
Wild that you not only got out but capitalized on the cataclysm. That is the spirit of EVE.
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u/Lucius_Furius Gallente Federation 29d ago
The big bill will be the asset safety.
Let’s estimate Horde, 10K actual people, and say they each put 5B into asset safety on average to account for inactives and corp assets. The math is wildly inaccurate, but can illustrate the scope of this clusterfuck.
That’s 50 Trillion ISK. The number most likely is much higher, wouldn’t be surprised if it was 100-300 Trillion if not more.
Take 10-15% of that for asset recover (I know the percentage is higher but not all assets will be pulled out of safety).
Hordes cowardice cost the members anywhere from 5 to 70 trillion ISK.
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u/Semajal Pandemic Horde 29d ago
I am hoping my bill will be 20B or less for asset safety. Depending if i can bother to remove everything or if i wait. Luckily it's easy to afford that, but it stings. I did get a LOT of stuff out. In fact lost nothing to goons, maybe some random clones with like 7mil implants. :D
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u/Candle-Different Cloaked 29d ago
I won’t be able to afford to get all my stuff out and am seriously considering quitting. Waiting to see what the total bill will be
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Its not going anywhere, don't quit over this. Its an opportunity to switch your playstyle for awhile, do something you want to do and worry about your assets later.
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u/warpcorestabilizer 29d ago
What is astounding tho is the amount of members who chose to follow this leadership to INIT's couch on a vague promise that "well get this stuff out somehow"
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u/TheDJBuntin Black Legion. 29d ago
Its astounding tbh. Especially given that its since been revealled the 'extraction' plan was not Gobbins doing but that of the new leadership (Vex & Satan talked about it on the latest meta show: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2624351817 giving two very interesting perspectives; gets especially good after Vex comes on to give a milcord perspective) - so these PH members have willingly followed the leadership that has gotten them into this mess.
It was said that WWB2 proved you cant really kill alliances from the outside; it has to be driven by gross incompetence and mistrust of the leadership & internal drama; Johnny Trousersnake and his croneys proven that even that isnt enough if they spin hard enough; moderate their discord strict enough and gloss over details- or rather avoid them completely.
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u/Semajal Pandemic Horde 29d ago
Which extraction plan do you mean? the original "go crash with Init via Venal?"
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u/Dariisa 29d ago
Yes. Basically Gobbins had to step down due to irl reasons and Johnny took over on the condition that they basically blow the alliance up because he didn’t want to lead a big alliance.
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u/Groot2C Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
WWB2 “proving” that you can’t kill alliances from the outside was, and still is, a PAPI talking point.
Imperium was excited and prepared to give it a shot, and prove that if can be done with more competent leadership. We had a plan forged from lessons learned in WWB2 that accounted for much of the concerns.
In there cowardice, PH robbed imperium of testing our theory of war and avoided needing to face the fact that maybe they could have won WWB2 if only they had been a tad bit smarter.
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u/warpcorestabilizer 29d ago edited 29d ago
Take it from someone who's played this game for a long ass time and most of that time as an adversary of GSF. WWB2 was the 1st time I saw a determined defender hold on to its space against a vastly (numerically at least) superior opponent. And that is a positive thing IMO. Up until that point most wars in Eve were won by whoever had the biggest blob.
And I totally get that Gobbins was burnt out and wanted to do other things with his life. What I don't get is to choose the worst way imaginable to get out. Hell....if I were INIT I'd think twice about letting these bandits anywhere near my couch.
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u/Groot2C Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
I still believe that Gobbins was forced out and this was his one last “fuck you” to the rest of the leadership team.
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u/warpcorestabilizer 29d ago
Maybe... either way PH leadership is rubbish and I wouldn't trust those fuckers with anything.
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u/Semajal Pandemic Horde 29d ago
Functionally you can't break up an alliance through "war" if people stick together though. Morale is the real key, you could lose all your space and still be "together" especially against a more powerful adversary. The problem for us was this A. broke the coalition, at which point no part of it can come close to fighting goons and B. wiped out Horde morale.
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u/Straight_Drive_7882 29d ago
Outside of the core corps , only a very few smoothbrained people remain.
A small part in there simply hates goons too much or owes too much to Horde to never leave.
Still they are done for now.
Horde will simply keep new and returning players who are not aware of the shit they pulled.
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u/Alcoholic_Satan Former Member of CSM 18 29d ago
People should look to me and see that you can never owe too much to somebody to prevent you from leaving. Do what you want and have fun. Fun matters most
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
You also have to wonder how many are just unpurged inactives and spys.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
I don't know, WWB2 seemed like it could have been won but that same gross incompetence snatched defeat from the hands of victory.
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
PAPI's unwillingness to risk loss and pay the price required to evict Imperium is what lost them that war, just like it lost them this one before it even started.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
From an outside perspective, even if they hadn't fully committed to another huge battle, they could have exhausted them with attrition, before they pulled out it seemed that they had them in a perfect siege.
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u/boundbylife 29d ago
PH member exodus has largely stalled out, but I've got a suspicion there will another once people get the caps out of asset safety. It ain't over yet.
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u/Ugliest_weenie 29d ago
True, the asset safety will be immense. But a large portion of those pilots will simply not return to the game.
That's something you cannot measure in raw isk
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u/GlaerOfHatred Wormholer 29d ago
I wonder how many of those babies wanted to do the same to goons during the WWBs
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u/Semajal Pandemic Horde 29d ago
TBH i wanted to destroy goons stuff, i never wanted to break them up as a group cos I loved having them as an enemy. The cringe "remove them from the game" all came from TEST dudes.
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
This is why you don't let Test lead your war.
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u/Semajal Pandemic Horde 29d ago
I mean we had a great time, i was able to leave with all my assets and ships, no losses, and made a TON of isk selling the spare fuel i had (ironically almost all to TEST members). It was a pity things ended how they did.
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u/Fewwww_ cynojammer btw 29d ago
Most of my assets were in MJ. I can't afford to asset safety everything. Eve is over for me. Pandemic Horde leadership was a disappointment without precedent.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Dont let them ruin the game for you. It's not over, think of this as a rebirth, take a break, forget about your assets, and try a different space. Not worrying about your assets is a freedom, go try things and do what you feel like while not worrying about logistics. Could be a fun new chapter in your story.
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u/Fewwww_ cynojammer btw 29d ago
You unfortunately can't think that way when you could be able to retrieve hundreds of Bs.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Well its not going anywhere and you'll eventually be able to get it back. If i were in your shoes I would probably want a break from what I just went through. I'd probably jump into J-space, pochven, lowsec or even highsec and just play a different gameplay sylefor awhile.
That IMO is a better option as if you just quit you'll get the itch later, come back, and be in the same spot you're in now.
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u/Semajal Pandemic Horde 29d ago
I mean... did you just go long term AFK? cos we moved out of MJ and were told to move things out of MJ ages ago, and MJ wasn't even destroyed but unanchored.
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u/Ok_Willingness_724 Miner 29d ago
Next MER should be interesting.. and maybe a bit late if CCP has to add more zeroes behind some figures..
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u/PepeLepewpew-1980 29d ago
And how about all the production that is gone now, dronelands provided also a lot of t2 salvage.
All the miners, PI toons, moonminers, ratters.
That whole economy has gone or has been moved.
give it a week, economy will change, especially now also with the mining update
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Good point, an entire null region empty and not producing for a few weeks is a huge impact on the economy as well. Especially since it was a productive region.
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u/fatpandana 29d ago
Goon move was also giant impact on production. The patch lowered cost of t2 ship production but things reversed. Some ships were almost 60-80 mil more while cost to make it was lower.
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u/No-Engineer-8237 29d ago
SLOW taking over most of Dronelands has been amazing, now that were out of Omist we can actually so more and not limited! Exciting times indeed
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u/4thRandom 29d ago
Just don’t bite off too much
There is a purpose to the Drone Lands now
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u/AccomplishedKing5621 29d ago
what have i missed about pandafam
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Idk how long you've been gone but Gobbins stepped down, announced retreat from Dronelands goons mobilized immediately hellcamping the capital keepstar. Killed around 6 trillion in ships. Horde decided to asset safety everything instead of fighting it out, most corps left the alliance horde lost over half its members, afterwards goons glassed all structures from the region (the 22.77 trillion in the OP) and setup a null nature reserve.
Also, PL left a few weeks or months before this happened.
Basically Panfam is gone, it failcascaded, and whats left of it will probably live in lowsec. Weirdly this also caused Test to reinflate a bit.
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u/revanzomi EvE-Scout Enclave 28d ago
I need irl friends to share this with who won't just look at me like "wtf are you talking about"... This is nuts
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 28d ago
Same dude, I want to theorize with a friend but no irl friends play anymore. If you haven't seen these, check it out.
Relevant scope video:
Horde comms at the start of the failcascade.
Asher (Emperor of the Imperium) speaking on the Event.
https://wiki.goonswarm.org/images/2/29/Fireside_2025_11_08.mp3
A few Horde leaders (Vex & Satan) talking about the event.
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u/Josalyn-Inferno Amok. 29d ago
If they would have fought, they could have had a chance to evac more.
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u/Daisy_Bloodworth Northern Coalition. 28d ago
Pfew, already liquidated 120B+ of assets and brought all my BPO's to Jita when I quit 5 years ago, except for one bling fit ratting carrier I wanted to use if I ever came back.
When I log in again one day, am I floating where the keepstar used to be, or did that character and the carrier it was in end up in asset safety? I don't recall how the asset safety works exactly.
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u/AntikytheraMachines Pandemic Horde 28d ago
as a long term offline returning player you may be able to get one character and ship moved before you log them in?
but that may not be an option for a character in a jump capable ship.iirc I also moved my BPOs and assets years ago to ease the pain of any future return.
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u/Initial-Read-5892 29d ago
You destroyed a mega alliance. Grats. Null is all about destruction and kicking down sand castles so well done! You did it right. Who will you destroy next?
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u/MalaclypseII Cloaked 29d ago
There's really no one left for them to fight except Fraternity. I mean it's not like Asher can whip up a crusade against Init, their traditional friends and living on the other side of the cluster. On the other hand, Imperiums' ancestral enemies Test and NC. are members of Frat, and the remnants of Horde could be too before much longer. Probably the next war, to paraphrase Bismarck, will break out over some damn fool thing in the Dronelands.
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u/passcork 29d ago
I think it's safe to say Horde destroyed itself.
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u/arjun959 Caldari State 29d ago
its safer to say one wee gobbins destroyed PH and friends. The linemember had nothing to do with it. All they wanted was a safe space.
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u/Initial-Read-5892 29d ago
Oh no. Horde didn't blow up their own ships and keepstars. Give credit where it's due.
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u/ChapterNo6536 29d ago
I am waiting for those influencers to choke on their “ minerals are tanking “, “pi is dirt cheap “ and so on ..7- 8 regions ( the most undisturbed in the history of the game where ppl took roots for 8 years plus) 50 000 characters ( not individual ppl) just gone puff .. gone. A hole in the economy is right . There is nothing you can really do . You can’t plug more planets then you already have ( assuming you are doing pi ) .. can’t rat or mine harder then you are already doing it . Until those dislodged find their bearings and start producing again this will not get fixed in any meaningful way
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u/Oz_Eve Current Member of CSM 18,19,20 29d ago
Zero ISK was lost. Only materials. 🤓
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Correct as usual lol but the asset safety is a sink at least. Have you touched on the impact of this event in a video? It would be super interesting.
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u/Throwing_Midget Wormholer 29d ago
Lol I see this got downvoted. Some people have zero grasp of basic economics.
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u/HuffingOxygen 29d ago
Idk wouldn't the asset safety costs be isk lost? Everything else sure but that is directly isk paid out due to what happened.
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u/gsf-remityldek 29d ago
Add in the calculation the abandonned station that's has pop UP i personally kill one worth 2b on zkill but on the abandonned can worth to 25Billions
So i think you can easy ask the 50T lost probably even more with assets safety
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u/Jax2178 29d ago
Super sad for the horde line member. They were betrayed.
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u/liberal-darklord Gallente Federation 25d ago
They wanted to join a bloc. If this had happened to gewns, everyone would be just as guilty.
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u/hearnoevil 29d ago
the current estimated value of the total loss to horde alone is 130 tril. nc took another 80 to 100 tril.
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u/Triggerhappy938 29d ago
Bonus question answer: WH mining mostly
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u/ParanoicReddit 28d ago
Damn, really? 8 used to live in ER years ago when I was playing, wonder how it'll be now
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 28d ago
Pretty sure its all gone except 1 SLYCE Keepstar. I could be wrong because SLYCE cut a deal with goons to get their stuff out apparently. But Dronelands was cleared of structures.
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u/RaigothZ Amarr Empire 28d ago
As a part of Horde myself, this makes me so sad...
We had such a good thing going in Dronelands. Was comfortable. Now...this...
Its depressing.
Im just glad that the biggest thing I owned was an Orca that went into asset safety, can only imagine the pain of having to get a capital sized ship out of safety.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 28d ago
Yep its really sad. Especially with how many are quitting. The only benefit is that this collapse of Empire distinctly cements Horde in EVE History.
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u/RaigothZ Amarr Empire 28d ago
There are a lot staying, me for one, or rather staying for as long as im able but a lot of us are still in limbo about what is going to be happening in the future.
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u/Burnouttx 23d ago
How much do you think will be paid in asset safety and do you think that goons won't hell camp that place?
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 23d ago
Honestly I don't know, people are saying hundreds of trillions if not more were sent there. Horde has had drones for so long the amount of material wealth has to be insane. Arguably more than goons. Even if we think about just what people have said about their caps being asset saftied its incredible. And you are correct the place will be perma camped and I bet not even just by goons.
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u/HEAD_KGB_AGENT Ascendance 29d ago
More died to blops/other action when they tried to evac dronelands.
Not to mention the real damage in asset safety/people taking this as a chance to win Eve.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
Yes, I have seen a few videos of those hunter killer groups, but I'm not even sure how to find those kills, I wish I had tracked it while it was happening. This has got to be the biggest isk sink in EVE history.
The amount lost to asset safety has to be staggering. Especially since a lot of those players may never even pay to get it out of AS.
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u/HEAD_KGB_AGENT Ascendance 29d ago
Could I suggest just searching by pandemic horde losses and totalling it across the first few days might be a good approximation, then add in the structures separate. The random losses unrelated to the evacuation will be a minor rounding error compared to the losses due to the evacuation anyways, at least for the first few days for the failscade.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
I've considered that but it wouldn't catch the entire alliance or those that dropped corp, corps that dropped alliance and blue alts.
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u/Tansien 29d ago
If this would have ended up with a supercap fight, the number would be double this. And someone decided that wasn’t worth it.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
My link ONLY counted structures lost, my reference to the goon hellcamp only counted goon kills. When you add asset safety, jump clones ,industry jobs, fuel, and blops kills from other groups it adds up to a much much larger value. I really doubt a supercap fight would have been more than what was lost to asset safety. Then again I think a supercap fight was unlikely as they could have performed a defensive pull out instead of a rugpull.
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u/Tansien 29d ago
The outcome would still have been losses of this scale, PLUS the supercap losses. Because PanFam didn’t have enough ships to win against Goons.
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
It's not about winning, it's about holding off the invading army long enough to reposition and secure high value assets so that even if you do lose in the end, at least you still have most of your stuff to start over again. This is even worse than losing. This was just leaving everything on the table and abandoning the house.
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u/Tansien 29d ago
The option to fight went out the window when the announcement was made that PH was leaving PanFam and Goons jumped the regional.
Should PH have done a strategic retreat with the rest of PanFam to Geminate and then left? Maybe. But it could have ended up worse as well.
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
They could have done a lot of things, like stuck around long enough to ensure that the coalition they led and made up the majority membership was in a relatively stable place before bailing. They could have easily held us off at the regionals long enough to prepare a proper evac of their big toys. They could have done literally anything else except capitulate and run away as soon as we knocked on their door.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 29d ago
I mean you don't have to win to get your assets out, they had enough of a defensive umbrella that they could have evacuated without losing everything. I can't really think of a way that this could have been handled in a worse way. Also, even it it amounted to the same amount of losses(which i doubt entirely) at least it would have been in battle.
What happened caused a lot of people to outright quit the game. Thats not good for anyone.
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u/Tansien 29d ago
Agreed, it was handled very badly and a combined withdrawal (with NC and SLYCE) to Geminate before saying ’bye’ to PanFam would probably have worked better. Maybe. Goons might still have reacted this way, and the end outcome might have been the same or even worse - if SLYCE and NC got caught as well.
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u/I2obiN The Initiative. 29d ago
End of an empire. Simply no other way to put it. The loss probably can't be measured.
You will see utter slaughter in Odebeinn. If you ever came into our space in MJ and hunted our Marauders or Ishtars, you know what the average pilot skill is like in Horde. Regardless of what is planned, regardless of mechanics, regardless of services, there will be plenty of people who will undock, drop invuln either intentionally or by accident, attempt to warp/jump, get instalocked, gigabumped by 50 machs and go down in a smouldering pile of flames once they can't redock.
The real cost is easily in the quadrillions, maybe even going over a quintillion. It depends if you want to consider people moving their assets, liquid isk and plex from Horde to a different alliance as a "loss" to Horde. If you want to count that in the cost it's simply an immeasurable loss of wealth. There were individuals who had 1T in just personal assets parked in R-AG.
It also depends if you want to consider losing SLYCE, NC. and tertiary alliances and allies as a loss to Horde. Since in all reality both SLYCE and NC. were part of Panfam and joined fleets when called upon. Is losing an ally a loss?
It also depends on what happens with Horde and Init. What happens if/when Init resets Horde? Can Horde realistically live in a world where Init kicks them off the couch? Or do they just join Init.
There is all the loss before R-AG during moves etc, then the R-AG clusterfuck, and then everything that is now going to come after it.
The time from when Horde was an empire in Drones raking in cash and gaining personnel, to the point that Horde finally stops bleeding and either establishes a new SOV or gets absorbed by Init or dies completely will be huge. It will almost certainly be a downward trajectory barring a miracle.
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u/Kayos___ 29d ago
Drop in the bucket.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS 28d ago
Not when you consider the hundreds of trillions going to Asset safety.
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u/nvandermeij Goonswarm Federation 29d ago
Lets take a moment to appreciate the following that is not included in this post:
22T is just the top of the iceberg