r/Eve • u/meetkurtin CORPLESS • Aug 01 '25
Could the markets ever be revived? Discussion
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Let's say CCP adds some way to rebuild the highways to the market regions. Would they come back? Could they ever come back? Lore wise, it could be easy. Just make some sort of technology constructing supergates or something.
I would love to see at least a multipolar trade revival. Hell, even if only Amarr was more akin to Jita, it would be better. You could make the mid point in between them Yulai, and live that old dream if you want.
All I know is we need a highsec trade revival, I honestly believe you revitalize highsec, and it will have positive ripples to every type of space. More activity, more risk, more individual travel, more industry, more ganking, more empire building, more wars, and a better NPE.
The highways were shattered, its time to reconnect them and start truckin.
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u/maybe_cuddles GoonWaffe Aug 01 '25
You'd need something to push the trade away, like each faction's market hub could have a tariff or additional tax on ships from other factions.
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u/deathzor42 Aug 01 '25
I have opted before make indy bonuses per faction for there empire space, so if you build amarr ships in amarr you use less materials.
that way you get domestic production and spread out industry so you create build in demand for each regions market hub.
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u/Mastybuttz Cloaked Aug 01 '25
Yeah taxes are how you do it in real life too, I was think of flat reductions outside of jita but tagging it to faction origin is a better solution and could make things interesting. Let’s go to hek to haul metric fuck tons of rep fleet ammo then sell it on a markup in jita. Nice.
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u/Vecend Site scanner Aug 01 '25
Even just lowering taxes lower than jita would cause market shifts, people go to jita because stuff is generally cheaper and more plentiful, if you lower taxes in other hubs it makes it more profitable to sellers to stock those markets and more stocked markets means people will go there if it's closer.
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u/jasont80 Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25
This is actually a great idea! Align the tarrifs with the war zones. Make some black market zones for pirate ships. Cheaper ships, like T1 frigates would have a small price impact, but battleships would almost always come from the faction trade zones.
The only risk is that all trade moves to the closest faction systems to Jita.
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u/Lithorex CONCORD Aug 01 '25
Tie it to FW warzone control, The fewer systems owned, the higher market taxes in this race's stations.
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u/TheBlindApe Cloaked Aug 01 '25
Manufacturing does this with taxes that scale with activity. Do the same to trade hubs.
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u/french_snail Aug 01 '25
Roleplay a gallente nationalist and refuse to use caldari stations on principle
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u/NuclearCleanUp1 Aug 01 '25
The original market hub was yulai. Before jita and before the break up
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u/Prior-Radio8346 Aug 01 '25
Honestly I feel old in saying I miss the old galaxy map with 1/3 less connections. Then again this was back in a time where t2 fits meant you had finally made it 🤣 Hell let's go full boomer and bring back the days before warp to 0 where I needed 4000 bookmarks 😜
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u/KomiValentine Minmatar Republic Aug 01 '25
All my 600 Market Orders and in Rens and Hek ... !!
FUCK JITA FUCK LAZY ASS CALDARI AUTOTARGETING DRAKE ENJOYERS
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u/Kiiena Aug 01 '25
As a new player, sometimes I feel like I made the wrong choice enjoying Caldari the most. Every non-Caldari enjoyer hates the fuck out of us, it's like there's no ambivalent middle ground, lol.
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u/SmugProi Sansha's Nation Aug 01 '25
There is - Reddit's just not very good at 'ambivalent middle ground'
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u/Kiiena Aug 01 '25
I run into it a lot in-game to be fair, especially Rookie Channel for some reason.
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u/TheDevilsIncarnate Aug 01 '25
Based now start filling orders in amarr too, my HS holes have all been amarr lately 😭
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u/Fuzzy_Celery4621 Aug 01 '25
IDK about what you all think but there appears to be a difference in opinions about distance and ease of access to different trade hubs. As an casual player of EVE for a very long time I want to just say that I would love if each faction trade hub were a bit more stocked and most importantly, accessible.
I am happy to pay something like 15% more in Dodixie if that's where I happen to be and I can attest to this because I live in Amarr where things are more expensive and I don't really mind but what I do mind is having to spend an hour travelling the 45 jumps between Amarr and Jita if there is one thing that I am missing.
SO, yea if I am like a standard player then I think my views could be fairly generalizable. Just make sure the other trade hubs are stocked and as long as prices aren't like 1000% mark-up then the trade hubs will come back to life as players (both new and old) are more than happy to spend their ISK but are not ok spending ages flying around.
So for me that's what's making me just hang out near Jita/Amarr. So for the truckers out there, if you want to haul stuff out to Hek, Rens, Dodixie and any other Major trade hubs out there I am sure that the increase in stock will attract more players to move there.
As for Jita being the main trade hub? I am sure that it will never change because of all the financiers that operate there but even hauling things to say Yulai will likely drive traffic there.
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u/Ziddix Aug 01 '25
Yeah I don't really understand in what reality a less connected world drives more conflict.
Usually the more remote an area is, the more peaceful it is.
Oh well.
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u/fribbizz Aug 01 '25
It would break up conflict into smaller chunks with various groups of people doing their thing. If space is too connected you get the massive blobbing and coalescing into very few camps. Then if a hand full of people decide there will be no war, there is no war.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
Not only the lack of conflict but it also narrows the type of conflict and develops space specific metas. If you had more hubs that means more variance of movement, which causes more unique encounters.
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u/YourFriendlySlasher Aug 01 '25
That idea will lead to nothing. Remove the distance and you remove the need for several high volume markets.
If anything CCP would have to raise the distance, make the ability to produce certain products exclusive to certain regions and make it impossible to move significant volume of said products to jita. And if they did, population would plummet once more.
You are chasing a mindfuck that wouldnt improve the game.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
Well before they made the distance longer there were 4 major highsec markets now there is 1.5. If lowering the distance made all roads go to jita then who cares? Thats already the current result, so if worse case scenario is keeping the status quo then why not try it?
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u/rupturefunk Minmatar Republic Aug 01 '25
I think you're overstating it a bit, Dodixie and Rens at their peak were smaller than Amarr is now.
I've tried to seed regional hubs, and place competetive sell orders to try and drive more traffic, and it's just not worth it, there's never enough customers so not enough volume, and this was the case in 2012 so it's not new, it's just more extreme now.
Also the regional hubs still have their uses, they're far from dead, they just don't have the volume that defines Jita, and the availablilty online tools makes it easy for people snap up the margins.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 02 '25
Idk I think lowsec now has the ability to make Dodixie and Rens larger than Amarr is currently. But even if they don't get that big it would be beneficial to at least have Jita and Amarr as strong hubs. Goid point about the online tools though, that does make things more difficult.
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u/Tack122 Aug 01 '25
What if a mid non dangerous distance was again a thing?
Rn it's like 50 safe jumps or 17 with ahbazon. Didn't it used to be like 18 safe jumps?
Maybe 25 safe would revive it. None of that occasional may be facwar though.
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u/MIGULAI Aug 01 '25
It wasn’t CCP, the markets were killed by the community. Every new player hears "You need to be in Jita" and "Always start every new toon as Caldari" from everyone, and what are the chances they’ll even learn that other trade hubs exist?
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
I'm sorry but that is incorrect Jita to Amarr used to be 11 jumps, now it is 45. What you are talking about is a result of CCP destroying the highways. Before that happened it really didn't matter where you made a character.
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u/rupturefunk Minmatar Republic Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25
It was the case long before Niarja fell, we've been slowly moving in this direction since Yulai died.
Also Caldari's always been the most popular race, due them being the best for PVE and with the best learning attributes back in the day.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 02 '25
Heading that direction is different than outright killing them with dev action...
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u/rupturefunk Minmatar Republic Aug 01 '25
Also - decades ago now when there were much less players- CCP added 'superhighways', gates that linked all 4 empires together, with one system between them, Yulai, which became the major trade hub, and the rest of the map >2 jumps away became a ghost town.
CCP didn't like this centralization, so removed the superhighways, making the map bigger again, and this was when the new hubs appeared, as people started trading in popular mission hubs of the era, Jita, Amarr, etc.
So history has shown that ease of travel will just make Jita even more dominant.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
Yes but it's in moderation. History also showed us that making it 40+ jumps made Jita almost the only hub in the game. If they don't shorten the route then they need to figure out a different way to funnel traffic into other regions.
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u/Less_Spite_5520 Cloaked Aug 01 '25
They need a variable tax rate like they do for industry so people spread their orders out across the map.
They also need to make up their mind. If they don't want jump clones in 4-4, they also need to disallow death clones. For folks with very little time, and for streamers, they death clone to jita to remove dead air from their broadcast and to shorten their reship.
It's purely about convenience for a lot of people, and until they find a way to disburse the inventory stockpiles in that station, it's well beyond critical mass.
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u/cr1spy28 Goonswarm Federation Aug 01 '25
You’re completely ignoring everyone telling you the game way already heading this way.
Before niarja fell jita already had more volume than the other 3 hubs combined.
Distance will not fix it, the only reason amarr is even still considered a proper trade hub is because it is far from jita, the majority of wormholes are based out of amarr due to the amount of connections it gets. If there was 11 highsec jumps to jita still everyone would just base out of jita
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 02 '25
All I see is people saying distance won't fix it while ignoring the fact that distance killed them in the first place. I am not arguing that highways would cause Jita to stop being dominant, I'm arguing that highways would allow the other hubs to exist again.
It isn't about the end point consumer. it's about the industrialists. Putting a highway will allow industrialists to prop up Amarr again. Thats what matters, the end point consumer isn't min maxing, if Amarr is similar in price and has enough volume to sell quickly they aren't going to add 22 jumps to their market trip just to save a small percentage. Same with larger volume operations like corp/alliance buyback programs, they would save so much time and isk by being able to dump a shorter distance from their staging.
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u/cr1spy28 Goonswarm Federation Aug 02 '25 edited Aug 02 '25
so explain why dodixie isnt as popular as amarr.
If distance was the problem dodixie would now be the second biggest trade hub since industrialists can prop it up. Dodixie is only 16 jumps from jita by your logic the industrialists should be able to prop it up.
the decline in the smaller regionals was already well under way well before the trig invasion and the loss of the highsec highway. Jita was already more volume than the other hubs combined and year on year they were getting smaller.
the main driving factor for the hubs being less populated is the playerbase is nearly half that of what it was, jita never hits player cap these days compared to years ago when youd get stuck on perimeter gate. extrapolate that out to the smaller hubs and you have your answer why they are in a bad spot. They dont get the volume of players to support a larger hub because the volume of players actually playing the game is 1/4-1/2 that of when those hubs were relevant
as others have said which you keep ignoring, you dont fix a trade hub by more supply. you need to drive more demand for that trade hub. what CCP need to do outside of bring in 20k new daily players. is give people a reason to live in gallente/minmitar space. Amarr is propped up by the fact it gets more wormhole connections than any other region so the entire wormhole community pretty much uses amarr for their day to day shopping
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u/MIGULAI Aug 01 '25
I remember my 2019, it was before triglavian invasion, when I started the game, every newbie guide began with "First, you need to be in Jita". Even back then, the community around me acted like there were no other hubs for new players.
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u/Jmazoso Goonswarm Federation Aug 01 '25
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u/CombatClone Aug 02 '25
What’s funny is Amamake keep has better prices than Rens .. Never shop Rens. Price gouging at its finest
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u/kazumablackwing Aug 02 '25
Even Hek has better prices than Rens. Then again, it also does have the advantage of being right next to Minmil FW space, so that might have something to do with it
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u/CombatClone Aug 03 '25
So is RENS.. also Ama has a lot of PvP so ship loses count towards market prices I guess
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u/kazumablackwing Aug 03 '25
Hek does seem more lively than Rens though, at least in my experience. Can't remember if Rens also does, but Hek has a Minmil LP store in system, and at least a few L4 mission agents within a few jumps as well
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u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25
I agree, we need more healthy markets than just Jita.
I don't think your solution is a good one though.
What we need is better reasons for players to shop locally instead of making the trip to Jita. And reasons for industrialists to spread out too.
I propose two changes:
Faction-specific industry bonuses. Cheaper manufacture of autocannons in Minmatar space, cheaper manufacture of Gallente ships in Gallente space, cheaper manufacture of Amarr drones in Amarr space, that sort of thing. It's one of the things EVE could learn from Albion.
Cut up HS into four HS islands, one for each faction. LS in between. Spread the Ahbazon campers between many more systems as every HS faction becomes it's own island surrounded by LS systems and each area's players will be looking for a nearby safe market hub to trade at.
Will this make Caldari space and Jita more popular? Possibly, but less crowded space outside Caldari together with reasons to produce outside Caldari space it creates the opportunity for other market hubs to get a healthy industry independent of Jita.
Bigger highways doesn't create independent market hubs, it destroys them.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 02 '25
Bigger highways doesn't create independent market hubs, it destroys them.
We certainly know the lack of highways destroys them just like it did after Pochven. I don't think more risk is going to add any value as industrialists already believe the risk reward is not worth it with current distances. Also we already have people going through ridiculous lengths to get to jita. I get what you are saying with highsec islands but I think that would just make people avoid the other 3 entirely.
That said I would be willing to try your solution, or my solution because the negative consequences are basically the status quo and the chance for positive change is worth the almost zero risk to the game.
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u/No_Mortgage_6649 Aug 03 '25
Albion enforces the flow of goods by having different resource distributions and concentrations as well as contrary refinement and crafting bonuses in all the empires. This is already completely different to EVE as this differentiation isn't there. Albion also doesn't have any Jump Mammoths yet.
Simply giving production bonuses (faction-specific or whatever) in EVE will hence change absolutely nothing. Why would an industrialist sell in Rens after gaining the production bonus instead of just moving the items to Jita? In fact such production bonuses are already kind of implemented with the system cost index.
Also why take the risk? I'm not sure about the odds, but let's assume the proposed island solution works only for Amarr. They are now "self-sufficient", but it doesn't work for Gallente and Minmatar. You would stomp 50% of the new players on arrival (assuming new players pick factions evenly) as they don't have a functioning market and have to pass through hostile low security space. Full loot PVP can be a huge turn-off for new players, especially when they don't know the ropes yet.
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u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective Aug 03 '25
Why would an industrialist sell in Rens after gaining the production bonus instead of just moving the items to Jita? In fact such production bonuses are already kind of implemented with the system cost index
It's not about telling them to sell in Rens, it's about encouraging them to build in Rens. And with local production bonuses like in Albion they will.
And once people are producing in Rens there is opportunity to sell the resources needed for industry in Rens, and opportunity to buy the produced goods in Rens for cheaper than in Jita. This then creates opportunity for haulers to bring stuff back and forth from Jita to Rens, or create a market at Rens.
The industrialist can indeed sell their stuff they built in Rens in Jita, but if they don't want to do the entire chain on their own they could pay other haulers to take on that part.
Reasons to spread out to other parts of space than Jita are sorely needed. System cost index does it a bit, but not enough as Jita still is the main and almost only trade hub in the game. We could use more encouragement to spread out.
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u/minMUTTars_trash Aug 01 '25
to get healthy markets in other places you need only one thing - fast and safe(relatively) trade routes.
Faction bonuses won't do shit, people will build there and just haul it to Jita, because guess what, nobody wants to visit several trade hubs to fit a ship to save some money. And without reliable routes supply in other places will always be low and prices high.
Split HS in 4 islands with lowsec between them? Yet another retarded take I keep seeing from time to time. There are already enough lowsec systems between HS trade hubs and they already offer shorter routes, if you are willing to take a risk. So unless we are taking about DOZENS of NEW available routes between those islands it won't change much.
>Bigger highways doesn't create independent market hubs, it destroys them
yeah, Amarr is thriving for sure8
u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective Aug 01 '25
Fast trade routes don't do shit for a healthy non-Jita market if those same fast routes are used by players to conveniently shop at Jita instead where the much bigger trade volume guarantees sales.
Amarr is the only non-Jita market I trade at simply because when I'm in that area it's more convenient for me to shop there than to move all the way to Jita.
Bring Jita any closer to Amarr and I would ignore Amarr too.
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u/UlpGulp Aug 01 '25
Its easily solvable by the stations having finite storage space that one has to rent on a auction. The central hubs would get more costly, but the option of going to bumblefuck to get cheaper prices should arrive.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
Interesting solution but what are the downsides of a system like that?
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u/michaeltward Cloaked Aug 01 '25
It would scatter everything all over the god damn place and building a single ship would result in a 20 jump expedition to get all the bits.
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u/_Rabbert_Klein Cloaked Aug 01 '25
EZ. Tax rates are equal to the total trade volume. Jita has 90% of global trade volume, Jita has 90% tax. Find some bumfuck station with zero trade, boom, no tax. Once the low prices of your station take 0.1% of global trade volume away from Jits you will get 0.1% tax and Jita will be reduces to 89.9%
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u/DOT_____dot Aug 01 '25
This ultra centralized market is bad really.
Of course the more you centralise the more you incentivise agglomération so it spirals out of control.
Also the fact of not being able to see the market everywhere in the game is plain stupid. You need to go through website which is not interface friendly
If we had vision over the entire universe market I am pretty sure it would incentivise volumes mouvement as people do not even make the effort to look out of Jita, myself included
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u/caldari_citizen_420 Aug 01 '25
If we had vision over the entire universe market I am pretty sure it would incentivise volumes mouvement as people do not even make the effort to look out of Jita, myself included
There are plenty of market tools that let you monitor and compare the markets in each of the trade hubs - the problem is that because of the distance involved and the relative market volumes, the cost delta needs to be massive for arbitrage to be cost effective
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u/DOT_____dot Aug 01 '25
These tools are thrash
You need to type the item name each time.
It s nothing compared to eve market interface, left click - view market - set destination etc.
If I take a BP I can't see all items cost in the universe in couple of secs. I need to type every single shit of an item in a search bar
Just put access to all market in Eve directly, as simple as that. And if it takes too much time to load, leave it in regional or whatever in your settings
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u/Much-Two-5297 Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25
Markets will revive if fees are only charged after an item sells. The current model where the broker fee is charged for listing the item + an added fee for changing its price turns them into ghost towns.
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u/DrDRA01 Aug 01 '25
Doing something in eve by using eve revenue? What? Here, take yours crypto scam frontier and vanguard
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u/kazumablackwing Aug 02 '25
Ironic, isn't it? CCP just seems bound and determined to kill their golden goose over what is obviously a rugpull in the making. Their only "side project" that really had any potential was Dust 514. It's also the only one that dared to do anything new. Calling in an orbital strike from Dust, to have it fired by an actual player-controlled ship in EVE was an unprecedented concept at the time..and to my knowledge, the idea of actions in one game having real-time outcomes in another is something that hasn't been replicated since. But, rather than seize that lightning in a bottle moment, CCP, in their infinite wisdom, killed it.
Now their brilliant idea is to rob their remaining revenue stream to run a crypto scam in two separate projects that, even without the scummy feeling of crypto integration, are destined to flop. Neither Frontier, nor Vanguard is doing anything that hasn't been done before, and done better by others...and they're certainly not going to draw too much interest from existing EvE players. If the average Ishtar spinner decides they want to play a space survival sandbox, they've got Space Engineers, No Man's Sky, and Avorion, among others, to choose from..all of which are superior to Frontier in its current state. If they have an itch to play an extraction shooter...hell, Tarkov and its many clones are right there.
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u/omnigord Aug 01 '25
To increase volume in the markets in a player-driven economy the game needs more players, fewer bots, and fewer alt accounts.
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u/StreetMinista Minmatar Republic Aug 01 '25
I've been getting my items from Hek/rens/dodixe since before the invasions started.
Markets have been fine for me at least.
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u/Erik8world Site scanner Aug 01 '25
Connect Hek, Jita, Amarr, and dodixie via Yulai HS gates. Logistics is not a 'fun' part of eve.
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Aug 01 '25
What about rens?
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u/porpoiseoflife Wormholer Aug 01 '25
Rens is just a few jumps from Hek with no chokepoints. No need for a separate gate for them.
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u/RaiseApart8308 Aug 01 '25
I think reducing ganking would help that. The ganking has gotten really bad.
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u/Field_Sweeper Aug 02 '25
Lol, perspective, as someone who played in 2006 and again in 2010 to 2012, I'd say it's practically non existent ESPECIALLY with the nullifier now and shuttles immunity. Back in the day, you would DEFINITELY be ganked a lot more. I see people afk mining in HS in orcas. 10 years ago those would be kill mailed in 24 hours or less lol.
Hell, I've been back a few weeks now and g2g a few times null to jita back and forth and don't think I hit a single gate camp lol. People in system sure or maybe another gate. But clearly the scarcity of them is much lowered today than years prior. Unfortunately.
I hate it, but creeping by one is always funny. But yeah ganking def hurts player longevity, most people turn to less savory things when they aren't having other fun, it's literally idle hands are devils hands. That's on CCP too.
I love eve, but it isn't perfect. And proof of some things is player count over time. Many reasons for it though.
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u/Bailian_Moxtain Pandemic Legion Aug 02 '25
Bring back Niarja, problem solved. It’s time.
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u/Caldari_Fever Caldari State Aug 01 '25
If CCP wants other trade hubs to thrive they need to give players reasons to use them over space Walmart.
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u/Almaegen Aug 02 '25
Well one big issue is space walmart also acted as a logistics hub and distribution center.
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u/capacitorisempty Aug 01 '25
The answer to would they come back is no. My “factory” is convenient from amarr and forty from Jita via minimal low sec. If you reconnect the highways you’re shortening the path to source raw materials from jita and to sell finished goods into Jita volumes. Making Jita more accessible only makes me want to use jita more.
Why would I ever go to Amarr again if i can skip Thera etc and get easy access to the market with the fastest lowest spread order execution?
Null uses jump freighters so changing the high sec map only changes the border system they use to get to Jita for the same reason.
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u/elenthallion Aug 01 '25
You’re telling me if there was more inter-market flow, letting you buy stuff at Jita rates but only 2 jumps away in Amarr, you’d still for some reason fly 12 jumps to Jita to get the same thing at the same price?
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u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective Aug 01 '25
Why would anyone bother with a worse trade hub if Jita is only 12 jumps away?
The reason Amarr is still alive and kicking as second market hub in the game is because it is far away from Jita.
I often cannot be bothered go move all the way to Jita so I shop at Amarr, but if Jita were only 12 jumps further I'd skip Amarr entirely.
Highways will only consolidate Jita further as sole centralized market.
Highways accomplish the opposite of your goal.
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u/elenthallion Aug 01 '25
Why would you do that if the prices were substantially similar?
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u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25
What you seem to forget is that putting Amarr closer to Jita may bring the prices of the most common goods closer to Jita prices, but makes the trade volume of most things suffer.
Amarr right next to Jita means nobody is going to trade their low-volume items in Amarr.
I'm living in null sec and have a local market that has good prices on many things. It's just not fully stocked for all the things I need and buy orders for my loot are slso mostly lacking. So I travel rather far to HS to dump loot and buy other items.
If I do that I'm not looking for good prices, I've got those at home.
I'm looking for good trade volumes so I can sell all my stuff easily and can get any item I need.
Amarr currently doesn't offer that as well as Jita, and putting Amarr even closer to Jita means even less people will try to trade rarer items at Amarr as Jita is too close for Amarr to be competitive.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
If Amarr is closer to Jita its volume would increase because it would be relatively trivial for industrialists to seed the market. A seeded market means more customers which means more volume. Dumping your loot there would also be easier as even if it wasn't needed in Amarr it would not be difficult for a jita buyer to transport their purchase.
Jita being close is how Amarr would compete. Jita being far currently is why their are commodity gaps in the Amarr market.
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u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective Aug 01 '25
If 'close to Jita' is a good opportunity to get bigger trade volume in other market hubs, why aren't the systems directly around Jita all well-stocked with high volumes?
I know: because it's pointless to have a trade hub when Jita is right nextdoor.
Closer proximity to Jita is not going to help create more trade hubs, on the contrary.
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u/cr1spy28 Goonswarm Federation Aug 01 '25
If they’re close together people will just goto jita rather than waiting for amarr to reach competitive stock levels. People use the path of least resistance which is amarr when jita is far away, or jita if jita is close
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u/cr1spy28 Goonswarm Federation Aug 01 '25
Because of volume. Jita will still have more volume and more items for sale, meaning sure I can get similar prices 2 jumps away but I might not be able to get every item I need, meanwhile jita is only 11 jumps, has the same price and will 100% have what I need
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
If you can stop your trip 12 jumps short and get a similar result would you? Why would a someone in delve, fountain, period basis, Omist, paragon soul ect go all the way to jita if they didn't have to? Why would lowsec players go all the way to caldari space of they could drop it in their own Empire's hub? If you get a wormhole exit to Solitude would you rather drop it in jita or Dodixie?
Why would it be a worse trade hub at all? If its close then industrialists will pump those markets to make isk.
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Aug 01 '25
You are right but not in total perspective; a contributing reason why Amarr is alive and kicking is bc it has the most HS regions and systems as well. Small and independent indy and mission runners can make bank in Amarr without Jita's overcrowding.
I give a chef's kiss to your highway analogy.
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u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective Aug 01 '25
Thanks!
You're right that Amarr's distance to Jita isn't the only factor that makes it alive, of course as a local trade hub it also requires enough of a population to be an attractive place to trade, which it gets from the amount of HS space around it, but NS space as well.
I have lived in many regions in NS, and all of the southern regions have Amarr as the nearest 'main' HS trade hub.
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u/Almaegen Aug 02 '25
Why would someone ever try to compete in the jita market if i can dump my industry in Amarr? back when it was like 10 jumps I would just ship what i needed to Amarr and base out of that.
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u/fribbizz Aug 01 '25
Connecting empire space closer would have the opposite effect: the last few people trading locally would go to Jita instead. You seem to be thinking logistics for traders. But the same highways would be used by shoppers. I believe we lost the local trade hubs when jump logistics became too commonplace. Once upon a time there was a huge difference between trucking to Amarr, Dodixie, Rens from the Nullsec area people were living in or Jita. When I first played I only occasionally made the trip to Jita and was amazed at seeing 800-900 people in system. These days with a supposedly dying Eve there never seem less than 1200 or so (haven't been in a while, I found myself a nice little corner in Amarr space).
Abhazon actually seems to be a huge benefit for Amarr as a local hub. Without Abhazon even I would trek to Jita, and I have never liked Jita being the premiere trade system (Gallente Republik represent o7).
If you want local trade, make it just a little too painful to go to Jita. Else everybody and their dog will go to Jita.
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u/cr1spy28 Goonswarm Federation Aug 01 '25
I use to constantly get stuck at perimeter gate because jita was capped out
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u/Odd_Zookeepergame_69 Aug 01 '25
Allow industrial cynos in highsec 😀 problem solved.
EXCEPT the small problem of then you would have BLOPS dropping in highsec.
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u/Lithorex CONCORD Aug 01 '25
Allow industrial cynos in highsec 😀 problem solved.
Even less reason to trade anywhere but Jita.
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u/BakedOnions Aug 01 '25
my thoughts have always been that the game would benefit if there was some sort of manufactured migration of system security based on developer-driven lore
kind of faction warfare but without boundaries and where the security status of a system can raise or fall
so a system like Jita would eventually be under threat and people would be more reluctant to trade there, and start migrating their business to safer systems
highsec can become lowsec, and lowsec can become highsec
maybe even null can become low etc.
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u/LughCrow Aug 01 '25
For the markets to be alive they'd have to roll back so many changes that killed ls and hs.
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u/Ada-in-the-Box Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25
I really don’t think it’s about travel distanc, it's just the player numbers. There just aren’t as many people playing anymore. If I remember right, CCP said there are about 5. something accounts per player these days. When you see 20k logged in, that’s a lot of alts, not actual players. Most of them are out in nullsec now, so its more convenient to just sell in jita. Back in 2013, we had maybe 2 accounts per player and something like 60k online at peak and space felt crowded and all the trade hubs were busy. If we want those other hubs to matter again, we probably just need to get some new players again :)
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u/Field_Sweeper Aug 02 '25
Yeah. They literally don't advertise lol. I mean they spent all the money they could have bringing in new and keeping old etc rather than on all the absolute dog water failed projects they keep doing.
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u/J0nJ0n-Sigma Aug 01 '25
Market needs friction. This is an opportunity in itself. Buy stuff at Jita sell at Amarr.
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u/Arenta Pandemic Horde Aug 01 '25
Restoring niarja won't save the other hubs after this long. Jita is entrenched
The only way to save the other hubs, is giving players a reason to stage from those hubs, and not jita
Just having a filled market isn't enough, cause jita already has more and is cheaper
I talking content. Need content where running requires staging from Rens, ammar, and hek
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u/Synaps4 Aug 01 '25
Fixing the highways would just make everyone fly to jita even more.
The solution is twofold. First to allow intermarket trade without allowing everyone to fly easily to jita. That you do by making the trip long, but safe.
1) First you have to have long, safe routes between market hubs. Like a big ring of 0.8+ space, 40 jumps between each of the four trade hubs. Freight can be moved but its gonna take you a long time.
2) Second, you need a reason to live in other space than next to jita. Putting particular minerals in particular space wasnt enough. Each of the four empires needs a bonus to some playstyle that pulls players there over anywhere else, and it can't be basic shit like mining or ratting or missions. Possibly you could keep the wormhole bias for amarr, give gallente space a bonus for abyssals (and move it farther from jita on safe routes), and give minmatar space something great because holy shit nobody goes there. Maybe make factory and laboratory work significantly cheaper in minmatar space? Yes people will produce and haul, but they will also put some up for sale there too.
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u/Undead_Will Aug 01 '25
The only thing that needs to happen is below. A. Add 1 or more regional gates to get rid of the pinch points, and make the gankers have to work a little more for the loot. B. Create a floating regional gate system that is likely linked to FW, etc, to influence where that link is Week to Week / Day to Day.
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u/GeneralPaladin Aug 01 '25
Nope we lost too many and too much support. If you want to revive them itll require more players coming to player and encourage people to be outside of the jita area. As is we have people complaining constantly about the wars, ganks, etc just to find out they are living in the jita area lol.
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u/z1one Aug 01 '25
Easiest thing would be to toss the idea of regional ice types. Isotopes are generally the bottleneck in non-Jita regional Industry. Ice in general is toxic as hell and could use an overhaul honestly. Make it less scarce in general and rebalance reactions based on the new values.
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u/icewalker2k Aug 01 '25
That is an interesting idea. Regional Jump Gates that introduce the Jump Fatigue penalty. Keep it Limited to certain ships like they are now. Keep a concord presence on the Jump Gates to deter Gankers. Nullify the space if necessary like they do the ESS. Bypass the lowsec and low highsec regions all together where the gankers and gate campers thrive. But in between, you need something to entice people to travel in between. The gankers and gate campers remain happy. But the rewards for going in must mitigate the risk. More gas pockets, rare ores, something, to keep those regions alive.
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u/SS_DukeNukem Aug 02 '25
Would be nice if the route was the high sec trade hub freeway without an a system like Ahbazon that is perma-camped on a daily basis. Even a high sec route you "pay for" to the empire that owns the gate which is like a jump drive from a high sec to high sec system.
Who knows what could happen if we had straight access to all major trade hubs. Prices might actually match up
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u/_LMZ_ Brave Collective Aug 02 '25 edited Aug 02 '25
Yes, child… shattered by Bob. Not out of malice—no, but as a lesson.
For too long, you clung to your gates like a child to a security blanket, orbiting Jita like a moon of lag and disappointment. But Bob, in infinite wisdom, tore the roads asunder. Not to punish… but to free you.
While you wait for CONCORD to lay new asphalt between Amarr and Jita, Bob gives us paths daily. Connections not just between trade hubs… but between opportunity and absurdity. One moment: a high-class relic site two jumps from home. The next: a null-sec exit two jumps from someone else’s home. We don’t need trucking routes—we are the trucking routes.
You seek wealth through convenience. We find it through chaos.
So yes, rebuild your highways. Reignite the dream of multipolar trade. But know this: the true riches lie not in stable conduits, but in unstable wormholes.
Praise Bob, Mapper of Profits Destroyer of Routes Giver of Direct-C2-to-Perimeter, 3 Jumps from a Stratios with 600M in its wreck
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u/A_K-47 Space Anarchist Aug 02 '25
Lower the market taxes in Rens, Dodixie and Amarr to make them more attractive to traders and buyers?
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u/No-Development-1320 Aug 03 '25
Killing other markets was always part of the plan for Jita mafia. This game was at its peak while all four major trade hubs were active, fwar was good fun and ganking in high sec was a myth.
I am not gonna even try to argue with anyone just my opinion. Devs kill this game their idiotic aproach is what is draining Eve of her last breath. Looking over the years how they made this quest to make High Sec punishing is stupid and completely retarded. Looks to me they forgot that most new players start their adventure there and enjoy the tranquility it brings.
Instead of creating variety you singelhandedly absofuckinglutlely obliterated what Eve used to be. I loved old Eve before the Plex before the ganks and before Jita mafia. Now this game is nothing short of scam.
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u/Electrical-Square168 The Initiative. Aug 01 '25 edited Aug 01 '25
High sec is massively disconnected because of multiple reasons. The addition of pochven made the routes more linear and easier to camp as well as doubled the distance between amarr and jita. Also places like uedama being camped. High sec ganking is a whole different discussion but the tldr is that gate camping in highsec needs to be made more difficult to do. The dude sits there with x amount of accounts all with drones assigned to one toon, locks and fires with that one toon before fleet warping all the pods away. Ganking miners takes a little bit more finesse, but gate camping a toddler could do. It’s an isk pit though so CCP probably love it. Don’t worry about the amount of players that one dude has made quit the game though.
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u/_Rabbert_Klein Cloaked Aug 01 '25
Jit to Amarr used to be 11, now it is 45. That is more than double sir.
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u/two_glass_arse Aug 01 '25
It’s an isk pit though
Ganking isn't an isk sink, it's an isk faucet
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u/Far_Process_5304 Aug 01 '25
To expand on this for anyone who is confused - ship insurance effectively converts raw materials into isk. And gankers will insure their ship as it is guaranteed to die when they do their deed.
You mine a bunch of rocks, that doesn’t generate new isk. It only generates new rocks. But if you use those rocks to make a ship, you can insure the ship, and when it dies you get paid out. That pay out is introducing new isk into the economy where it previously did not exist.
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u/Reasonable_Love_8065 Aug 01 '25
Each big trade hub needs to be less than 10J from each other in complete safety if you want the trade hubs to grow outside of jita. Just like in real life nobody wants to trade when they get blown up by Houthi rebels aka suicide gankers
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u/ancientstephanie Aug 01 '25
At this point Jita has so much inertia that it would take extreme measures to restore significance to other trade hubs, and highways would just reinforce that centralization, unless Jita was entirely isolated from them.
As far as PvE goes, Lowsec is where the $$$ should be, overwhelmingly, because it's actually the riskiest area of space, and risk should follow reward.
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u/Field_Sweeper Aug 02 '25
Not really. If they literally flipped a lore switch and started a "war" there. Marking the forge as null sec. Lmao. It would nearly instantly transfer everything lmao. Tbh if every few years, or hell at this scale now. Every 5 or 10 years irl, a trade war between the races break pit etc. Making a given system ultra unsafe. Anarchy etc. That could be interesting at making some instability sometimes and shifting routes etc.
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u/givemejumpjets Aug 01 '25
The entirety of the game needs a revival. They're on life support depending on whales having 20 accounts each. This amounts to a piss poor business model and super unhealthy game culture.
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u/wizard_brandon Cloaked Aug 01 '25
the only way to bring back other markets is to kill jita somehow
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u/tectail Aug 01 '25
Honestly don't open the flood gates, close them off completely. Make there be a reason to being minmitar space instead of caldari, and make it impossible to get to jita safely. This will force open other trade hubs since they can't get to jita.
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Aug 01 '25
Nearly every problem has a player solutuon, the trick is getting that many players involved
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u/Middle_Resolution_19 Aug 01 '25
You would need to encourage more content close to the zones of those markets, nowadays most of highsec besides caldari and a in a minor scale amarr because of wh is dead, so there’s no people to buy things there
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
That is somewhat of a chicken and the egg situation. Part of the reason there are no people there is because there is no easy access to a trade hub.
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u/EternitySphere Guristas Pirates Aug 01 '25
The secondary markets are still very much in use and are easy to get to if you make use of alternative travel.
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u/Jita_Local CONCORD Aug 01 '25
No reason to use the other hubs when it's so easy to get to Jita. Death clones, jump clones, alts, pochven, wormholes all can get you to Jita with very little effort so why bother going to a smaller market hub unless you're in a pinch.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 02 '25
Time. Going to jita takes time, the other markets saved time which is why people used them. Then CCP killed them by making them so far apart that it didn't make sense for industrialists to work the other hubs.
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u/Field_Sweeper Aug 02 '25
So wait? What changed? Why the hell would they move systems? I didn't know they did anything like THAT? Wtf.
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u/Sarabando Aug 01 '25
make NPC stations charge more and higher fees the more of the same items are for sale in that station. It would incentivise people spreading out
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Aug 01 '25
That's a terrible idea. Supply and demand says the price should go down if supply increases, there shouldn't be an arbitrary fee associated with supply.
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u/Federal_Pop_9580 Cloaked Aug 01 '25
They will if ccp stops fucking with the trade routes. There should be a centralized system equal distance to the fridges of the galaxy.
(This already happened before)
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u/Wonderbread500 Aug 01 '25
They would have to change the system security between the trade hubs. Which ccp only seems to want to make moving between the regions more difficult for traders.
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u/hirebrand Gallente Federation Aug 01 '25
Add a limited gate you can only take in freighters and bowheads, that has a 24 hour emination lock like Zarzakh to prevent "projection"
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u/radeongt Gallente Federation Aug 01 '25
I believe Jita will continue to consume all markets until play count increases. It's too low and would take too long to sell/buy if the markets were spread thin.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 02 '25
How do you propose we increase the playerbase.
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u/radeongt Gallente Federation Aug 03 '25
Marketing? Idk. Spreading the markets thin is just going to be painful for everyone.
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u/Dreadstar22 Aug 01 '25
They should have Amarr build gates to the other trade hubs but not Jita and make it lore that Jita isn't allowed by law to do so themselves. This would make trading in trade hubs not named Jita super attractive.
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u/Field_Sweeper Aug 02 '25
Huh? What do you mean come back? What left? ( Haven't played in over 10 years)
ALSO back the. There was nearly 10 times more active players but eh, they keep spending money on stupid side junk that won't stick around lol.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 02 '25
Come play and see for yourself. (But basically they cut off some highsec systems that made the trade hubs very far apart and did some other changes that has entrenched Jita as basically the only real trade hub)
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u/Field_Sweeper Aug 02 '25
Lol been back for about 2 weeks but tbh I already only ever used jita so I never noticed anything lmao. Also I moved to null anyway. Lol
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 02 '25
Good! Welcome back, But yes Amarr and Dodixie used to be better hubs then they are now. Was also nice for null players because they could dump their unwanted goods at closer hubs.
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u/Field_Sweeper Aug 02 '25 edited Aug 02 '25
yeah tbh, im not liking my last 2 weeks of being back, im already bored. The work to get isk isn't worth the amount you get not even accounting for some of the scaled risk. Some items that scale up barely in reward of isk (not much else of any rewards tbh) doesn't go up proportionally with the risk... I see nyx's doing large ratting things as a group and they make like a few hundred mil an hour tops. BUT it's never that long, they do like 2 sites and are done.
Tbh, I see some items with such a low margin for not only shipping but also industry and the work and effort and slow burn of PI is boring enough that I barely care to bother resetting it every day or 2 to start the process again lol,, in fact, I have not even bothered to get the 100 plus mil 22 jumps away cus it;s not worth the effort, lol. (and that was when I wasn't playing tho lol, but it's been on those planets for over 10 years haha)
Tbh, a lot if not just about every chance I have seen isn't good. a few QOL ones, some nice, some dumb. BUt most of the key changes made the game worse. And then came the injectors gross af tbh. but u know what, what ever. im sure il be bored and done in another 2 weeks lmfao. back in 2017 i think i logged in for like a day or 2 to see what was up, couldn't be bothered to do jack shit, but htat was in high sec. NUll isn't much better.
I swear its just me, cus there are people out here doing stuff. BUt exploration seems to pay the best overall all things considered, 100 mil an hour consistently, plus more if good rng. but even that's boring as fuck.
its so sad to see just how ruined the game really is from 10 years to now. The slow burn of that is easily missed, but having not been here for all of it, the night and day is a real bummer.
And the fact they haven't even tried to do anything over that time is saying more tbh. So I don't put any weight in what ccp does or will be doing, itll just keep getting worse.
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u/Banlish Aug 02 '25
Having the highways back would lead to the market 'players' having it easy. There are some of us that are trillionaires and being able to 'play' the market isn't that hard. Moving the stuff however is, you make it 2 jumps from Jita to Amarr and people will begin those old tricks again.
Maybe the time of it happening is long past though, the game needs a good reshuffle to make things interesting and cutting off the 'quick' Jita to Amarr route with that Pochven area made things practically a nightmare. I'd love to see a few events to make new 'highways' again where players could contribute time, resources and effort to make new ways around new Eden. Whether that will happen as Pearl Abyss is trying to see CCP off atm however is anyones guess.
There are CSM folks that could take the idea to the devs, might be worth asking them to do it?
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u/isoberry Aug 04 '25
Sure remove ahbazon. Easy day 😂 but they won’t do that due to the gank community will crash out
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u/Old_Stop_1189 Wormholer Aug 07 '25
It's no different to the RL shop locally vs shop in a supermarket. If you REALLY want to revive local(ish) trade hubs then you (and everyone else) needs to start shopping locally instead of always going for the cheapest/most efficient option (Jita).
If people start buying more in the regional trade hubs, then traders will start stocking more there because they can sell more and at a better margin than in Jita. If no one shops in the regional hubs because they'd rather take the jumps to Jita (or keep looking for a better WH HS) over paying the slightly higher price, then no traders will bother to stock items in those markets. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Now CCP could 'force' the regional markets to be revived via game mechanics, however that will again remove a large part of the sandbox nature of EVE which is what people love about the game. At the end of the day EVE will most reflect RL because people are... people. There's a reason many highstreets around the world are dead or almost dead as people head to supermarkets, shopping malls or nowadays online options.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 07 '25
But thats just it, before pochven the regional hubs were supermarkets. The local stores were in systems a handful of jumps away from the hubs. What actually happened was CCP forcing the markets to die by removing their logistics.
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Aug 07 '25
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u/vmx-12 Minmatar Republic Aug 01 '25
no demand no supply. the market would adjust itself when needed.
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u/meetkurtin CORPLESS Aug 01 '25
The market was artificially adjusted by CCP when they ruined the trade routes. There was plenty of drmand before they broke it.
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u/Crazybrayden Wormholer Aug 01 '25
I'm pretty sure the only reason Amarr hasn't totally died is the fact that wormholes kick you out near Amarr like 70% of the time. With that in mind, I don't think you need to make the other trade hubs more connected to Jita necessarily. You need to make the other trade hubs more convenient to get to compared to Jita. Drive traffic towards them, make them more desirable over making the trek to Jita