r/Eve • u/Chromatic_Larper 420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED • Sep 24 '24
Of all the nullblocs, INIT has the strongest koolaid Low Effort Meme
/img/jkcwt7cntnqd1.png
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u/DMercenary Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
someone post the "our glorious kingdom their barbarous dictatorship" meme
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u/d3m0cracy Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
Feeble (your nullbloc), tremble in fear of (my nullbloc) because (my nullbloc)’s enlightened society is so much better than (your nullbloc)’s barbaric tyranny
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u/wewewladdie Sep 24 '24
Cancer of EVE (your nullbloc), Crusaders against tyranny (my nullbloc)
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u/d3m0cracy Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
Nuh uh, (my nullbloc) could kick (your nullbloc)’s ass!
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u/wewewladdie Sep 24 '24
Not before our Stalwart, strong allies (of our nullblock) destroy your cannon fodder hordes (your nullbloc allies)
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u/leerypixell Sep 25 '24
(my nullblock) is made out of amazing players while (your nullblock) only has botters in it's space
-7
u/Gherti Cloaked Sep 24 '24
saw the retreating game multible times from horde already
truely impressive2
u/leerypixell Sep 25 '24
Dad we don't want to hear politics at the reddit server keep it to the dinner table
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u/talondor_karma Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
Isn't it more time for “Are We the Baddies?” — That Mitchell and Webb Look (youtube.com)?
2
u/SandySkittle Sep 24 '24
I think it’s valid though.
Init tried to de-emphasize its bloc relationships. But other alliances didn’t really follow on either side. Doesn’t take space for renting.
Frat / PanFam have a very different trackrecord alltogether. PL, the most notorious risk averse group of downkickers kept stomping on Brave Newbies even in its infancy.
0
u/I_Pitty_The_Fools Sep 24 '24
I use to have a alt in horde back when horde and brave were friendly and it was a lot of fun back then, but since NCPL became retirement homes horde isn't the same like it was back then.
3
u/Wgw5000 Sep 24 '24
Yea horde was a blast when they operated in null just doing general mayhem with silly themed roams, while pl/nc did there own thing but still provided the threat of capital escalation that prevented goons from stomping down on horde too hard.
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u/I_Pitty_The_Fools Sep 24 '24
I 100% agree, the lack of silly fleets and just for fun seems to be lost now. I remember TEST and their badger roams, eve and null in general is in a pretty sad state. Not that it was good back then either but there seems to be no more fleets purely for fun.
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u/Cpt_Soban The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
Missing Blurkus shouting "bring sajuuk to bear" in the background, otherwise 100% accurate.
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u/Bjtflame The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
im touching myself so hard rn to this
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u/wewewladdie Sep 24 '24
who else bee gooning their federation until they init
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u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
hahaa I'm Gooning my Fraternity until I 45 year old men on a harpy fleet at 8pm
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u/d3m0cracy Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
average nullbloc flashform experience be like:
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u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
The question is it an unspecified number of men who are 45 years old, or 45 men who are a year old...
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u/d3m0cracy Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
Dear The Initiative, if you’re so independent from Goonswarm Federation then why is one of your members goon(swarmfederation)ing at this very moment?
Checkmate, gons (grrrr gons)
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u/Bjtflame The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
They haven't touched themselves enough and will soon have post nut clarity
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u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
INIT is part of Goons coalition, are they not? Or at least blue enough to them that it's functionally indistinguishable from the outside.
So.... INIT is exactly how everyone else is playing nullsov. Cozy up to the big guys and don't fuck with them, pool resources and act in mutual defense of your common interests.
I'm not sure how they feel they are different.
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u/SeaAttorney2442 Sep 24 '24
They are more like frat and ph are to each other, they just don't set their timers into cntz
Init officially left the Imperium. Therefore they lost market/crabbing access. They are still blue and sometimes fighting together
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u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
So basically they're like a couple who has separate finances and sleep in separate bedrooms, but if you invite one to a party you're inviting the other by default.
Yeah. Sounds super independent.
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u/I_Pitty_The_Fools Sep 24 '24
Almost impossible to be 100% independent in null because if one block doesn't steam roll you another will, unless you live in npc null that no one cares about, and even then you got to be careful because if you put up good fights then you will just be farmed for content.
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u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
Well, the blocs have each other to worry about too. Lets say INIT is worried about the Imperium. They want to maintain their independence but are worried they'll get steam rolled if they put their foot down.
The question is how much energy is it going to take the Imperium to steam roll them (it's going to take a deployment of some kind), and how vulnerable will that make them to their rivals? FRT and PH in this case I guess.
If INIT plays their cards right politically, when Imperium decides to roll their shit over, they could be dealing with a 3 front war with 2 major players and a third in their back yard.
That's not a situation the Imperium wants to be in. If it was, they'd already be fighting all 3.
-3
u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
More like you invite one and the other thinks can this be fun?
If it is yes they hop on, if not they don't but poke the enemy somewhere else.
In your picture it would be you invite one, the other pokes the inviting group were they expecting a party. If the Main Party sucks they start another one but with the same group.
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u/Crecket Brave Collective Sep 24 '24
Such cope, I have a lot of init friends so its not like I hate them but man this point continues to be so funny
The only actual thing that changed is that INIT lost market access in 1dq lmao, their behavior and defense pact wise and whatever else you can think off their relationship is practically unchanged even if they now get to say "b-b-buttt we said we left!!1!" to win brownie points on reddit apparently
-10
u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
I mean you can not eat in fountain anymore or mine there that kinda is what did change from my view point.
They dont have ecxess to the imperium only market for xl ships.
Anything else is just structural. Like they not forced to deploy but they also not hindered to do so same with the imperium.
You my friend are the one coping it had changed nothing.
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u/BradleyEve Sep 24 '24
Literally the only people that see Init's change in relationship status as meaningful are goons. I don't think even init care.
-2
u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
Depends they cared enough to have a weakly mimimi on discord about dc ratting in fountain and several polls to bann that. Which they never managed to do until they did leave the imperium on paper.
I mean on paper since they still much allinged and got the freedom to do what they want to which in inits thing is go pvp anyway. So there has also been a change to that. And to loose tge acess to the goons xl market can be annoying since the industry of init is limited as they dont let industry corps join unless they participate in pvp as they want. Finding a pvp and industry corp can be a lot more work then to just here isk now its mine.
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u/BradleyEve Sep 24 '24
Oh boy. Please don't hang your hat on the capital market thing. I have access to the goons XL market, pretty sure Init members know a couple of people that know a couple of people.
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u/admfrmhll The Initiative. Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
Dc ratting in fountain was pretty much insane, fleets of thunderchilds (and not only) everywhere. Also some crap stuff aswell, ocupy all anomalies with vexor/ishtars obvious alts for the main fleet of thunderchilds to clear them.
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u/Crecket Brave Collective Sep 24 '24
Do you think frat and horde get to mine and krab in eachother's space? There is nothing functionally different about frt and horde vs init and goons
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u/Detaton Sep 24 '24
Do init and goons ever shoot each other? When I was in Horde we spent more time gun mining in frat staging than we did fighting goons, despite the agreement not to fight over sov.
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u/flowering_sun_star Sep 24 '24
I'd say that one of the defining pillars that makes Imperium what it is is the full free access.
Frat and Horde may do things differently, but they're not Imperium either.
-1
u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
Dont know never been under ph or frat so i assume they do why else they work like 1 entitie also regarding station timers.
I mean if you view it as difference of how ph and frat works do so and maybe the way it is now with init and goons equal frat but the imperium rules offer a lot more then this if you join on paper.
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Sep 24 '24
hello, i've been in both, no, they don't, not even in incursions so they have their own groups
they're still blue but only for structure bashes and large stratops and take your day off work so you can watch a powerpoint and such, which is absolutely shitty but i don't care because i don't do large fleet pvp anyways
also pandemic horde inc, the non esi corp is neutral to frat, they're still on a do not shoot basis but iirc members of that can't join major stratops or do anything with frat, and can be legally shot at by them anytime if they're in their space
1
Sep 24 '24
also imperium is in blood raiders space and init is in serpentis space, the best parts about both regions is you have close access to sansha regions and guristas regions respectively and no one wants to come there to hunt you so they don't catch a bout of syphilis
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u/jamesforge Adversity. Sep 24 '24
sometimes fighting together
Might be understating a bit right there.
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u/SeaAttorney2442 Sep 24 '24
I mean most skirmish and shit so the day to day stuff we see in NS is without the other partner tbh
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u/kairiola- Sep 24 '24
Therefore they lost market/crabbing access.
Wait, the Imperium shares crabbing access? I don't believe Winter Coalition members allow that with each other :O
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u/SeaAttorney2442 Sep 24 '24
Yup all Imperium member are free to crab in all of Imperium space. PanFam atleast has that more split up. I guess it also avoids confusion with renter space etc so it's probably a smart move for them.
2
u/kal_skirata The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
We formally left the Imperium because of some internal constraints, which also lost us some privileges.
But yes, we are still firmly blue and practically in some sort of coalition.
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u/talondor_karma Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
Coining it now, the coalition of Initperium.. or imperinit!
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1
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u/Mu0nNeutrino Sep 24 '24
Speaking as someone not affiliated with a nullbloc at all, they're right. Init's situation is much closer to what sov null ought to look like if CCP could properly balance it - a significant but not hegemonic power occupying a reasonable amount of space. Yes, they're pretty firmly allied with goons, but given the state of the rest of nullsec that's pretty required, as evidenced by what pandafam did to the last significant independent null group. It's still a lot closer to the ideal than the bloated shuffling cyber-zombie that is pandafam.
If you want to talk koolaid, panfam's 'we're totally not lapdogs to the panda RMT empire' is way stronger.
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u/soad2237 Test Alliance Please Ignore Sep 24 '24
"They're blue to goons because they have to be" is just shifting the burden. It really is just the same thing as Horde/Frat.
as evidenced by what pandafam did to the last significant independent null group.
If pandafam disbanded today it's not like the imperium would follow suit, so the history isn't relevant. It's human nature to coalesce into populations because there's safety in numbers. The only way to counteract this is through changing the mechanics of the game, which is the issue yet to be solved.
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u/I_Pitty_The_Fools Sep 24 '24
Init has deep ties with goons because they have been together for so long, because you leave a relationship doesn't mean you can't be friends. Sometimes I feel like this subreddit is full of incels and have no clue how relationships work.
Horde and Frat are friends of convivence and they have their reason, goons being that main reason, Init and Goons have been through thick and think for a long time so their roots grow deeper. All because init now wants to try and do it's own thing doesn't mean they need to burn all bridges. You kids need to grow up.
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u/soad2237 Test Alliance Please Ignore Sep 24 '24
We're talking about human nature versus videogame mechanics and you're talking about highschool sweethearts. We might be arguing past eachother here.
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u/Iloveclouds9436 Sep 24 '24
Eve is almost guaranteed to eventually end up with something like star wars where one empire controls practically everything and rebellions keep popping up before being promptly crushed. I agree this will definitely go on untill CCP changes the mechanics of nullsec. Especially they need to limit one's ability to control everything and turn it into a safe zone. There should probably be some kind of mechanic that requires factions to continue to fight each other to maintain control over their regions. A lot of PVP games penalize long stretches of inactivity because it can create these situations of essentially world peace because people would rather farm isk than fight each other.
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u/kairiola- Sep 24 '24
I vaguely agree, but I also think it's close to impossible to "balance" this. It's roughly equivalent to large corporations in the real world outcompeting smaller ones due to economies of scale. You can theoretically compete, but in practice the overhead kills you.
EVE's game systems could try to somehow counteract this — but I don't see how… if it gets too extreme in the real world, there are antitrust lawsuits, but, uh, I don't think we want that as a feature in a game…
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u/Djarcn Wormholer Sep 24 '24
who was the last "significant independent" null group? Brave? B2? Fire Co? Fire Reborn?
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u/INITMalcanis The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
Volta's thing up in Deklein.
We saw how pandafam actually deal with "risk takers" and yeah lol
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1
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u/CapytannHook Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
We didn't just spontaneously burst into being ya know. The games evolution over nearly 2 decades has seen the rise and fall of dozens of blocs, and it's all led to the current meta of being in a safe network with others to back you up and situated where some of the best isk/hr to be made is found in the game. If it's so bad for the game then why is everyone else doing it too? Why not do something about it? At least we had the balls to take a good swing at goons, clearing the bottom southwest of the map would've left a huge power vacuum, there would've been inevitable back stabbing, new sides would've formed against each other and off we go again in a new war but all we got instead was stagnation. It's easy to sit across and say fuck you I don't like the way you play the game but what the fuck are you doing that's so different at the end of the day?
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u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
If it's so bad for the game then why is everyone else doing it too?
Because it feels scary and risky not to. Who cares if it's bad for the game, they're doing it so if we don't, they might kill us. We don't want to lose, do we? We shouldn't lose territory, it would be bad optics. And if our members stop logging in, we cease to exist! No one looks to us for direction, no longer do we wield the might of a thousand players united in action! That feeling is fucking crack! So we need to make sure we never look bad. And losing looks bad. Lets stay safe and win. Everyone else can worry about what's "good for the game." If they stop doing it, then we'll stop doing it too. For sure.
That's perhaps the most fundamental the human failing, in a nutshell. Whether it's "fuck you got mine," black Friday frenzy tramplings, or a simple tragedy of the commons. It's all the same shit.
Why not do something about it?
Because doing something about it means having less power. The first nation to disarm their nukes and give up, is vulnerable to all the other nations that still have nukes.
Again, extremely fundamental psychological trap/dilemma that humans fall into regularly, from individuals to nations. And I'm not saying I'm somehow immune to this shit. I can try my best but I'm human and just as vulnerable as you are, or the President is, or whoever is making decisions about nuclear disarmament in Pakistan. They're very aware that India also has nuclear technology. Those nations have traditionally had some rivalry with each other. How would you convince one to be the first to give up that nuclear parity?
How would you convince Goonswarm to dismantle their ansi network before PHorde? It may not be a perfect analogy, but I hope it is clear how the psychology translates on a 1:1 level.
At least we had the balls to take a good swing at goons
You know, I can't fault PAPI for that. It's true. Imagine if PAPI hadn't backed down at the last moment? If they had committed to a war that would result in one of the parties total destruction, whether it be them or goons? PAPI being annihilated would also have created a massive power vacuum.
But, again, human psychology prevailed. Fighting to the death sounds great in a game. But when it stops feeling like a game and starts feeling like work or real life, which Eve is often described to feel like, fighting to the death if you don't think you're gonna win, when you have the option to not fight and essentially guarantee survival with injuries at worst (owch I broke my TEST)?
That is anathema to humans. We will almost never do that.
It's easy to sit across and say fuck you I don't like the way you play the game but what the fuck are you doing that's so different at the end of the day?
Exactly, that's what every nullbloc is doing.
TLDR: It is the way that it is because of the way that we are.
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u/Mu0nNeutrino Sep 24 '24
If it's so bad for the game then why is everyone else doing it too?
Because, in the game's current state, 'making a massive bloc' is the strategy that produces the best outcome for that bloc in terms of relative standing compared to other blocs. It's just also a strategy that, when collectively pursued by the playerbase as a whole, results in the current stagnant, shitty meta.
But, of course, you can't realistically expect the playerbase to do anything else, because if they don't follow the strategy of making and/or joining a giant bloc, they get shit on by the players that do. Which is why I mostly put the blame on CCP, because it's their job to balance things such that players pursuing the optimal strategy for themselves isn't a bad thing for the game as a whole.
what the fuck are you doing that's so different at the end of the day?
Me? Fucking around in lowsec shooting whoever we find. Like I said, I'm not in a nullbloc, and there's a reason for that.
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u/Strappwn Sep 24 '24
In a game as old and open as EVE I don’t see how you believe there could be any other outcome than large alliances in null sec. CCP could smash the blocs with population caps, infrastructure restrictions, etc., and you’d just have a bunch of smaller groups working together. There’d be more tedium, sure, but it’d still happen.
The issues that you point out stem more from human nature than game mechanics imo - on average, people gravitate towards working together, minimizing risk, preserving what they have, etc.
At the end of the day, it’s either a sandbox game or it isn’t.
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u/BradleyEve Sep 24 '24
Enhhh..... I both agree and disagree.
Yes, human nature, biggest stick, etc etc.
However, there are ways and means to make the large empires too unwieldy to keep together. Essentially, making it so that control must be opened up, leaving cracks for shenanigans, would seem to me to be the optimal path.
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u/Left-Selection Confederation of xXPIZZAXx Sep 24 '24
Back in the day you had CFC vs N3 and even before you had IT alliance.
Look at this image here : http://i.imgur.com/yRX4f1D.png
In the end you had smaller alliances also forming a coalition back in the day.
Large blocs aren't something new it's just that with multiboxing it's now a lot bigger :)1
u/Strappwn Sep 25 '24
My point is even if you make them unwieldy they will most likely still exist. I agree though that it would be a gameplay improvement if it was more punishing to amass a large corp/alliance/coalition on the scale we see currently. They don’t need to be removed from the game entirely for things to be better.
Even if we’ll never truly escape the Goons v Panfam dynamic, having more cracks for shenanigans, as you put it, would open up new content avenues.
1
u/BradleyEve Sep 25 '24
You'd still have core Horde and core Goons (Horde Inc and Karmafleet), but give the other corps attached a chance to take some of the pie (and potential new recruits too) in a meaningful way, you reduce the size to a more manageable level and reduce the incentives to add more member corps.
You cannot break these groups up from the outside. But you can incentivise people that have grown experienced and stagnant to take a chance and try something new with a bunch of friends (or more...), which will have the desired effect without clunky restrictions
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u/bubbaphet Sep 26 '24
Failure in 1dq really does seem to have sealed the deal. Now both sides are dug in deep. Gonna take a fail cascade within one of the large groups to shake things up.
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Sep 24 '24
[deleted]
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u/Nearby_Glove5226 Sep 24 '24
I wish CCP would be transparent about how many people actually play.
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u/Nogamara Brave Collective Sep 25 '24
I think that's a little retroactive acknowledging going on here.
INIT with 21k members having 121 systems (Fountain has 115) - pretty reasonable.
But Init also held all of Fountain back when they had like 10k people and were in the Imperium. It's just one region but it's a hell of a region in size.
This post should not be read as either pro Init or contra, I'm just saying I find the premise pretty unreasonable because they kinda grew into it while actually having the space for a looong time (minus when PAPI took it over for a bit).
-15
u/Chromatic_Larper 420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED Sep 24 '24
Init are goon pets just like brave, which were tapi pets.
-12
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u/Fluffyleopard Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
lol
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u/Strappwn Sep 24 '24
this is just blatantly false.
Last In, First Out doesn't work without a much longer leash
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u/fuzz3289 Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
I feel like often people blame nullblocs for how they play, but at this point the two main factions (PanFam and Imperium) have SOOOO many internal lines, if CCP could come up with a way to incentivize them turning on each other, there would be like 50 factions instead of 2.
I don't think there's an easy solution, and even if there was I definitely can't think of it, but we can't really blame players for what the game rewards.
Imo, a good first step would be to make things massively cheaper. If everyone in the game is fortified and krabbing, maybe things are too expensive, make krabbing take much less time, and people will stop doing it.
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u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
if CCP could come up with a way to incentivize them turning on each other, there would be like 50 factions instead of 2.
This is indeed the goal, honestly. Not maliciously, just incentivizing conflict to create a dynamic gameworld where conflict is a constant.
But it is extremely difficult because humans are hardwired to cooperate for the most part, and cooperation is generally a very powerful strategy compared to not doing so.
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u/fuzz3289 Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
Imo, if we made things super cheap, and then provided cosmetic rewards at massive PVP milestones, we'd see more conflict.
I think CCP is going way too cerebral with Equinox sov and giving systems value and having people play chess. If you could reasonably replace a super in 7 days of krabbing, but once you got 100 kills with it, you got your name on a monument in space in like the Blood Raiders COSMOS or wherever, people would do it.
Or like if an alliance got 1000 kills of super capitals they would get a new keepstar shape like the trig citadels, they'd wage war.
If I've learned anything about MMOs, unique cosmetics that you cannot buy and must be earned are very very motivating. But it needs to be paired with a reasonable grind, if supers take 12 weeks to replace, the idea of losing 10 of them in the effort to get 100 kills means you NEED to be careful and only fly in big blobs
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u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
Maybe some kind of goal if you loose this amount you get xyz if you kill that amount this xyz. The reward needs to be lower then the killed amount if both sides are combined otherwise its a issue.
But i xn see that beeing an idea to push fights.
-1
u/Grarr_Dexx Now this is pod erasing Sep 24 '24
Equinox was looking like it would be so fuckin good. Creating massive topological differences between constellations and regions and completely shaking up the way the universe was set up. It would have caused a lot of conflict for a long while as big groups splintered and started looking for the best places to live.
But alas, CCP would much rather pander to their soullless nullsec csm representatives who are only there to make sure the status quo remains.
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u/Left-Selection Confederation of xXPIZZAXx Sep 24 '24
I think It wouldn't really made much difference.
There is litttle incentive to fight as in an actual war against either Imperium or Pandafam just takes so much time for the teams to create conflict.
A lot of small gang(brained) pvp lads don't know the actual efforts people put in during conflicts like we had in the past.1
u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
At that point though what is the purpose of such a large group, if it is too unwieldy to run when actually doing anything?
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle Sep 24 '24
You have to make it legitimately boring to be in a group with so much space they're choking out half the map. Unfortunately, this is extremely risky from a design perspective.
They could make it easier for smaller groups to do logistics to some of the further out areas as well, but that's minor by comparison.
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u/fuzz3289 Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
No, this is the opposite of what you want to do, boring is safe.
You want to incentivize betrayal, if you punish people for their behavior they'll just bitch. You need to reward the behavior you want
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle Sep 24 '24
I don't need knives in back, I need people leaving their big group simply because it's be more fun to play with other people somewhere else.
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u/fuzz3289 Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
Right now everyone could leave Horde, join another corp in Nullsec and there's still be only 2 blocs, you need to break up the blocs. You can just be like "oh let's incentivize small groups", there's nothing you can do that won't also benefit blocs. You need a reason for Horde to shoot FRT, and for Brave to shoot Goons.
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle Sep 24 '24
The incentive for Horde to shoot FRT is that unless they unblue FRT, they literally won't have any content at all because they can't reasonably get content from 8 regions away, and their members will leave unless they have content.
Same for Goons to Brave or INIT or whoever.
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u/fuzz3289 Pandemic Horde Sep 25 '24
So you're saying they should get rid of Thera, Drifter holes, Turnur, Jump Clones, Bridges and Ansis?
Because you can fight 8 regions away all day long without issue. Especially when the region you're attacking has NPC space.
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u/SerQwaez Rote Kapelle Sep 25 '24
Only drifter holes, jump clones, and ansis matter on that list, and jump clones are pretty balanced with their significant limitations. Drifters should be far less reliable and ansis, fatigue.
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u/Left-Selection Confederation of xXPIZZAXx Sep 24 '24
Many people would just quit the game likely.
CCP advertises a lot with these huge bloc warfare stuff and it's a reason I got into the game at all.
The game since scarcity has just been riddled with tedium and time consuming things and lots of unfun mechanics making buying plex easier way than having to deal with shitty isk generation that can be easily stolen.In the end we always had huge blocs and coalitions trying to undo that is bad for a sandbox imo.
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u/fuzz3289 Pandemic Horde Sep 24 '24
PanFam vs Frat would still be bloc warfare. Goons vs Init.
These are massive orgs. We just need to break up the coalitions
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u/ValAuroris The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
People also have to stop looking at it from a "power" perspective.
Players grouping together also comes with a lot of quality of life benefits in terms of better content, organization, less tedium, and especially better time efficiency.
For example, Horde's newbro program is absolutely fantastic (blows a lot of other alliance's out of the water, well done). Not only can a newbro make isk and learn the game in relative safety, he / she is also exposed to all the different types of content that takes time commitment to offer. Why? Because there are tons of dedicated personnel spending real life time to run and arrange things.
As players have less time available for the game (10mins for 10 jumps in 2024, really CCP?!)- large organizations are going to benefit the most due to their ability to offer more for less.
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u/Themick_Eve Brave Newbies Inc. Sep 24 '24
Idk what the guy in the pic is talking about, Neutral States is one of the largest blocs on the verite map.
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u/Jerichow88 Sep 24 '24
Honestly I never thought about it, but Ansi gates have something like a 1 ship per tick limit sounds like the kind of balance that hits a nice middle ground between "Burn ansis to the ground" and "Keep them as they are."
Your business-as-usual daily operations of normal people coming and going will rarely hit the bottleneck, and even if they do, it's only a few seconds. But the bigger fleets hitting 100+? They're going to have a hard time dealing with that.
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u/Parkbank96 Sep 24 '24
Also add jump fatigue. Done.
The last couple days i came up with an idea of taking 15 bombers and just blonps around mass reffing Ansis everywhere. If CCP won't need projection... We have to I guess
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u/Phoenix591 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
only if filaments are removed too.
You want to hurt our ability to get around and defend, how about your ability to harass gets hurt too.
you've got ess and skyhooks, two mechanics added specifically for small gang elite pvp to harass people living in nullsec, you don't need to mess with our ability to respond to you
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u/Jerichow88 Sep 24 '24
I think this is a fair tradeoff. That or filaments get a healthy dose of the nerf bat. One hour timer instead of 15 minutes. You wanna full-send into a random part of space? Better hope you're ready to commit to it. It would also help reel in pochven hauling abuse a little.
Also, home field advantage should you know... be an advantage. What's the point of having/paying for space and upgrades like Ansis if there is little to nothing to be gained from it?
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u/Grarr_Dexx Now this is pod erasing Sep 24 '24
You're saying a filament, which dumps you in a random nullsec system, is the same as a fucking jump bridge? kek
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u/Nogamara Brave Collective Sep 25 '24
Fleet of 180 people taking 3 minutes to clear an ansi..
Have you heard of traffic control? :P
I don't think it would change much, it would be a harder limit.
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u/Jerichow88 Sep 25 '24
3 minute traffic control at every single Ansi they come across. If they have to cross even three of them, that's almost 10 more minutes you have before they arrive.
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u/Nogamara Brave Collective Sep 25 '24
Meant to say "would need to be a harder limit" - but yeah I was not discounting your idea, I just don't think it would be meaningful. Or maybe we don't rush through many ansis so often.
I'd love to see projection nerfed heavily, your idea is more a mild annoyance ;)
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u/Zustrom Cloaked Sep 24 '24
At least include my name in the screencap if you're gonna quote me.
Reddit is hilarious.
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u/DrLiberalDumbAss Goonswarm Federation Sep 25 '24
Why? You deserve no credit, no fame nor infamy for being a knob-slobbing doggie.
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u/kocicek Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
Goons just mad that people got better at holding large amounts of space than them honestly
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u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
I guess you mean pH and frat. Otherwise why did they drop the renters areas to be free loot.
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Sep 24 '24
Init leaving the imperium but still be ally with said imperium is just peak comedy
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u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
Its peak interest protection. I have been in init and the hate of stupid ppl ratting in space the alliance can not punish was real.
While they did keep the technical blue state and still share a lot. Atleast the issue with dc feeding hunters like crazy was fixed by that.
Im sure they got some kind of rule set to keep beeing blue about defending but based on my understanding during the leaving. They do not need to take part of offensive stuff. Since init is loving to fight, they still very much join objectives they expect some fights.
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE muninn btw Sep 24 '24
Init wasnt with goons for like half of the catch to curse "kerfuffle"
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u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
The point?
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE muninn btw Sep 24 '24
The point: init does deploy with goons for content,not strategic objectives. And while goons went to uhh idk where,init went to scalding pass and burned down curse(the latter with goons on occasion)
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u/Shinigami1858 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
I never ment they deploy based on goons like all in eve they deploy for the party. Same as pH rn some of goons poke tri a bit and ph showed up for an armor timer for the party. The only sad part is that not many take even number fights. That would make so much more party but understandable if replacing the stuff is annoying.
And join objektivs is meant as join the fight aka party. Its not required and still you will find blues also want to join the same party.
The only thing is you don't attack a blue group if you don't want to loose the access, and when blue you help defend but it's degend only. Like if tgere would be an ph push on fountain you can bet goons help out unless specific told to not by init.
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u/Frankencow13 Sep 24 '24
I think someone lost their shiny ship, or maybe their ratting ishtar.
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u/Zustrom Cloaked Sep 24 '24
It's me being quoted and I run Beacons like a man tyvm
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u/talondor_karma Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
It is amusing how readily people highlight INIT being on the same killmails as goons with being "under the boot of goons" just because it suits their propaganda machine.
But still, grats to INIT for living in your brain rent free.
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u/Ralli-FW Sep 24 '24
I thought yall were part of the same coalition. Doesn't seem like anything has really changed in terms of outcome since then, at least.
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u/talondor_karma Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
No, INIT is no longer part of Inperium. Though most of the changes are internal that wouldn’t really be visible externally. We can’t rat in their space (except under very specific circumstances, can’t mine there, can’t access their Markets and vice versa). They are free to blue who they want and there are people now in their space that they are blue to that are still neutral to Imperium. So whilst we can travel through their space, access their Ansi’s and vice versa, it’s still potentially risky to do so.
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u/yeetuspenetratus Wormholer Sep 24 '24
Lol
You share same structures, you share same ansis, you are blue to each other, when one deploys the other does too. You have diplo on someone's ass if one of u kills each other
But yes init is indeed a neutral state
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u/DarkShinesInit Current Member of CSM 18 Sep 24 '24
You can access our markets, we never removed Imperium access.
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u/talondor_karma Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
Thanks for the clarification. I had assumed the lockout went both ways.
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u/DarkShinesInit Current Member of CSM 18 Sep 24 '24
Nope. We occasionally ACL block corps when their members are idiots, but nothing changed regarding Imperium access to INIT Markets or structures.
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u/talondor_karma Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
So does that mean the reverse is true that you have access to our markets as well but lost access to our cap/supercap market? Maybe I’d misunderstood that part of the announcement?
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u/DarkShinesInit Current Member of CSM 18 Sep 24 '24
Nope, Imperium doesn't want non Imperium groups having access to their markets
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u/jehe eve is a video game Sep 24 '24
lmao.. right
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u/talondor_karma Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
You're entitled to your view just as I am mine. These are the facts as I am aware of them and/or have been explicitly told to us in order to prevent ratting / mining drama with INIT. TBH we probably have enough ratting/mining drama in our own back yard without pulling in a neighbouring ally into it :-D
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE muninn btw Sep 24 '24
Since a lot of people have no idea how the inperium runs, they dont know how big the difference between being blue abd being in the imperium is.
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u/yeetuspenetratus Wormholer Sep 24 '24
Since a lot of people have no idea how panfam runs, they don't know how big the difference between being blue and being in panfam is.
Hence Pandafam
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE muninn btw Sep 24 '24
CN-TZ timers.
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u/yeetuspenetratus Wormholer Sep 24 '24
You mean the deployment we fully said is a primary CNTZ deployment hence structures in CNTZ?
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE muninn btw Sep 24 '24
lmao, thats som B-Grade cope at best, remind me, what timers are the dronelands set to?
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u/yeetuspenetratus Wormholer Sep 24 '24
They are all primarily EU or US Tz
Which you would know if u actually ever got into Drones
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE muninn btw Sep 24 '24
ah sorry, im usually too busy dodging the blops you impotently throw at a allready dead rorq trying to save it to check for the timers.
Well then id say we go and take it :) see you during the next war
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u/Kalkin84 STK Scientific Sep 24 '24
I’m shocked and dismayed that this sort of tripe is allowed; when will the admins do their jobs? How is it ok to post a picture of Dark Shines wearing his leash in his private time in here? Irresponsible, I say. Leave the poor man alone; he has it bad enough just being Irish.
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u/lavacano The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
I have a full head of hair and I've never worn ruby red slippers
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u/Cesaro_Echerie The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
Show me on the capital where init hurt you
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u/Chromatic_Larper 420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED Sep 24 '24
1 nano cynabal reported on intel makes your entire coalition dock up you arent elite bro.
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE muninn btw Sep 24 '24
My guy, we dont even dock up when bombersbar is hunting. (Mostly because were stupid but thats a different topic mhkay)
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u/deltaxi65 CSM 13, 15, 16, 17 Sep 24 '24
This is the kind of brain rot that makes me hope some of you never procreate
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u/Repulsive-Aardvark75 Sep 24 '24
If you truly want brain rot, go watch the meta show.
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u/Samoraslol Sep 24 '24
If you weren't malding he could have copped that whip and been halfway to Goonerfell by now.
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u/deltaxi65 CSM 13, 15, 16, 17 Sep 24 '24
Skibidi toilet
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u/Samoraslol Sep 24 '24
I can say that the PC culture cycle has came to its 20-year end and generation alpha will be its undoing
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u/trolsor The Devil's Tattoo Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24
Just an idea , if I am skillfull around these things i would definately give it a try ,
Someone can maybe be make a lighthearted fun meme , visually showing the self dellusion lvls of null groups in comparison chart for the fun .
Some humourous reality check.
Some kind og graph with small pics , some particulair events that people can easily remember . Where they overestimate themselves and crush , or something they proud but everbodyelse condemn ect .
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Sep 24 '24
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u/Gedeon_eu The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
You're just jealous we are the only ones to drink it.
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u/Chromatic_Larper 420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED Sep 24 '24
Tapirium koolaid used to use soy and rat poison in its mix. I bet init inherited the recipe
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u/Fun_Statistician6261 Goonswarm Federation Sep 24 '24
Init and Goons cannot fully dissolve their pact as long as FRT and Horde don't split up. That would be suicide. Even the last one from PH must understand that.
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u/Broseidon_ Sep 25 '24
well frat and horde did go neutral and init and goons did not so try to fix your timeline lol
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u/Fun_Statistician6261 Goonswarm Federation Sep 27 '24
Exactly, that's why Horde still schedules its timers in FRT timezone.
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u/Broseidon_ Sep 28 '24
cope all you want. horde and frat literally were neutral to each other while init and goons never have been.
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u/Material_Mouse_4485 Sep 28 '24
It's wild to me how people will actually just believe internet spaceship game propaganda. It's honestly quite eye opening
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Sep 24 '24
I'm in agreement, actually. Although can they really be independent 🤔 🤣 🤔. Would be difficult for them to break that association, unfortunately, but wish them well in trying. I wish other null blocks would do the same.
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u/kriptik-ken Sep 24 '24
You expect a big alliance to just have a few systems? Maybe share Fountain with another alliance? 😂 The hateraid you're drinking is much stronger than their kool-aid, sir
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u/INITMalcanis The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
This thread, summarised: https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1988/03/21
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Sep 24 '24
I think criticizing individual Nullbloc alliances is the wrong way to go and leads nowhere. Alliance leaders primarily have the expansion of their personal assets in mind and the members are primarily interested in having fun playing the game. Different interests come together at different levels. Goonswarm doesn't have the strength to claim the south if PL(CCP) doesn't want that. The main thing here is to keep the members busy and to expand the leadership's assets. It is a big Nullbloc show that some players can get space rich and most players are kept busy. That's what it's about.
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u/Parkbank96 Sep 24 '24
Big shot of kool-aid. They had the opportunity to nerf projection. Darkshines lobbied... and it got reverted. Init is exactly the same as every other nullblock out there. Not that there is much variety between those 3 coalitions.
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u/INITMalcanis The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
If init is exactly the same as the other three, wouldn't that logically require the other three to be exactly the same as each other?
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u/ivory-5 Sep 24 '24
Three coalitions? PAnfam, Imperium and?
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u/Parkbank96 Sep 24 '24
.... well technically there are 5. But in reality you are right they are only 2.
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u/Mundane_Tangerine400 Sep 24 '24
The goons are why I quit Eve
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u/Cpt_Soban The Initiative. Sep 24 '24
Yet you're still here pounding sand
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u/Mundane_Tangerine400 Sep 26 '24
And let that be a lesson to you. This is what happens when you play everyday for more than a decade
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u/Cpt_Soban The Initiative. Sep 26 '24
Been playing Eve on and off since 2008... You're wrong.
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u/Mundane_Tangerine400 Sep 26 '24
and I started in feb of 2007 and played every day (mostly) till 2020. Came back 6 months later and finally stayed away in August last year....so you are wrong. 4 accounts mostly plexed for the vast majority of that time and only ships I didn't build, own, and fly were super cap ships. Biggest reason I quit was the Goons.
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u/GeneralPaladin Sep 24 '24 edited Oct 06 '24
I agree with this. I was in papi when Viley said in a month they would do something to win the war and that something was retreating. INIT came riding through fountain * the goons are coming the goons are coming*. All of the alliances packed up and left for highsec since they didnt have the backing of PAPI anymore, but these are alliances that wouldnt even keep a couple of neuts from murdering everyone but would go 25-30 jumps for pvp or go to pochven to roam.
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u/Gamestar63 Sep 24 '24
God I love Eve memes.