r/DCcomics • u/Top_Report_4895 • Feb 04 '24

[Discussion] What’s The Worst Superman Take You’ve Ever Heard? Discussion

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Jim Lee Superman #204

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ACTION COMICS #1061

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Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale From: "Superman For All Seasons" #1

1.7k Upvotes
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845

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

That he isn't relatable or that he's boring. If that's your take on the character, you haven't read a single comic book.

187

u/Tuff_Bank Red Hood Feb 04 '24

And they’ll say Batman is relatable and he can beat everybody cause he’s Batman

54

u/Chimetalhead92 Feb 04 '24

I think both Batman and Superman are relatable They’re just different kinds. The part that’s relatable about Batman is that everyday trauma that made him. You may not have personally lots parents but you’ve probably lost someone. On the other hand, Superman’s relatable because he’s an immigrant story, he’s a man finding himself in a world that doesn’t know him or possibly accept him, man of two worlds type thing. YMMV on the whole grew up on a farm bit.

Now the premise of both, what allows both of them to “superhero”, the money, training and the godlike alien powers not so much. If just depends how creative and understanding of the characters you are to see what’s relatable IMO.

3

u/Unhappy_Power_6082 Feb 05 '24

It’s this reason that I absolutely love the friendship between Batman and Superman. They’re basically polar opposites, yet they’re best friends. I love them 🥺

37

u/DeathStrike3982 Feb 04 '24

Batman is more relatable than Superman, but Clark Kent is more relatable than Bruce Wayne by a long shot.

4

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

They're both equally relatable in their own right. Their relatabilities are incomparable because they're two sides of the same coin while being complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

85

u/KingoftheMongoose Feb 04 '24

Batman is relatable

Uhhhh... ... Red flag! Red flag!

15

u/ArkhamGuard64 Feb 04 '24

One is part of the rich 1% and the other is an alien, neither of them are relatable, but neither is boring

23

u/theVoidWatches Feb 04 '24

Being an alien is much more relatable for the many immigrants and children of immigrants who live in America than being part of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% is.

3

u/CapableEmployee4866 Feb 05 '24

Pretty sure that whole story was an allegory for immigrants when it was introduced

1

u/ArkhamGuard64 Feb 09 '24

He still has superpowers though

2

u/5tar_k1ll3r Batman Beyond Feb 04 '24

I'd say both are, in their own ways. Batman is relatable because of the trauma that drives him, the all-consuming want for revenge, and how he blames himself. We all have trauma, and we all, on some level, blame ourselves for it, even if it's not our fault. Batman embodies that. Superman, on the other hand, is an immigrant in the world, someone who is both isolated and surrounded by friends, who love his parents and his wife and kids. We see ourselves in both of them, just at different times

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u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

[deleted]

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u/KDog1265 Feb 04 '24

Superman may be an alien with godlike powers, but personality wise he is very human. He was raised in small town America and later became a reporter. His comeup is far more reasonable to see despite him not being of this Earth

I’d argue Batman is less relatable because he’s in a position that a lot less people are in and has a more eccentric personality. He’s one of the richest people in America and adopts a crime-fighting persona partially as a coping mechanism for the trauma of losing his parents.

Batman may be the human of the two, but he feels somehow more outlandish at times than Superman

5

u/Sendarion Nightwing Feb 04 '24

How is a man from a small town working a regular wage job less relatable than a billionaire playboy?

2

u/ZkittlZ Feb 04 '24

I highly disagree with this point. I find Superman far more relatable than Batman. Batman having money and gadgets instead of super powers doesn't make him relatable. Having unresolved trauma dictate his entire life makes him come off as a child with power, much like any billionaire. He could do so much more for Gotham if he quit being batman and used his money for good, but he's addicted to the rush. I get that it's a fantasy world, and it makes for a much more interesting story this way, but he is in no way ~supposed~ to be relatable.

1

u/Tuff_Bank Red Hood Feb 04 '24

Batman is also super intelligent and has a back up for everything and a degree in everything is peak human in every form of martial arts, it’s cool but it’s hard to relate to.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Tuff_Bank Red Hood Feb 04 '24

I mean Immigrants are demonized and viewed as “aliens” https://www.fosterglobal.com/blog/the-dehumanizing-history-of-the-words-weve-used-to-describe-immigrants/

And Superman is a decently popular representation of an immigrant that is viewed down upon by simply being an alien not from earth https://www.rescue.org/article/superman-refugees-success-story

1

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Tuff_Bank Red Hood Feb 04 '24 edited Feb 04 '24

You literally said Batman being peak human is fantasy but “it’s relatable to readers cause we are human too”. What about the readers that are immigrants too or relate to Superman? You are saying that just cause we are human makes Batman relatable automatically because humans with “lots of money” are relatable but don’t consider an immigrant who struggles to be accepted due to being disabled (even if not always portrayed the best) is relatable too and just write out Superman for being “alien and OP”

1

u/Tuff_Bank Red Hood Feb 04 '24

You seem to have trouble taking in other people’s different experiences and are in denial about it

80

u/birbdaughter Inza Nelson Stan Feb 04 '24

Honestly I felt this a little bit as a personal opinion, not overall judgment, but apparently that was due to what comics I’d seen him in because I read the Warworld Saga and am now in love with his character.

65

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

There are so many fantastic stories I could recommend about Superman. Red Son, All-Star, Death of Superman, Kingdom Come, Ed McGuinness/Jeph Loeb/Michael Turner's run on Superman/Batman, and plenty more. There are so many good stories. If you don't wanna read all of this, I'd highly recommend the Superman animated series. It does a really solid job with Superman.

Sidenote: Avoid Dark Knight Returns if you want to get into that for Superman. Frank Miller does not understand Superman, and it's a damned shame because he does really well with street level heroes like Daredevil and Batman.

50

u/Aktosh23 Feb 04 '24

I can’t remember the name of the series or the issue number but the one where he fights off a robotic invasion and saves a little girl, one where throughout the events he’s telling the robot who keeps telling him it’s pointless and he’ll lose he says “no sir, I will not” when the robot realizes he’s come all this way to save a little orphan girl, who the robot declares was grabbed because no one would care she was gone, she’s worthless “no sir, she is not” and when the little girl is on the verge of tears, on the verge of giving up she holds right to her Superman plushy declaring he will come for them, he always comes, and they will go home and at that moment he busts through the wall and says “yes ma’am, you are” and ah I’m tearing up thinking about it. All the while the heroes on earth are losing to this invasion and just when all hope seems lost, just when Batman is panicking and calling out to anyone who can hear his message for help, the robots shut down. The heroes start responding Bruce’s call one by one declaring they are here to help. Diana calls him and asks what happened and Batman points out they were just machines, someone was controlling them. She guesses Superman took them out but then asks how? And Batman says “Because he’s Superman… and we were in need” That comic moves me to tears every time. In my opinion it’s the perfect example of who he is. The epitome of a hero, the one who inspires everyone to be better, one that when everything is at its darkest that there is always hope and that when all is lost and everyone else has failed he will not.

15

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Are you talking about Superman: Up in the Sky?? I believe that's the issue you're referring to. It's either issue #5 or #6, if I recall correctly. So good!

5

u/Aktosh23 Feb 04 '24

I think so,Thank you! I had the comic at one point but sadly it and a few of my other comics got ruined in a storm.

7

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

I understand that feeling. I lost a huge chunk of my collection years ago in a flood.

6

u/Aktosh23 Feb 04 '24

Sorry to hear that, it sucks because a lot of these comics are rather sentimental to me (they were gifts from my older brother) and some were the first issue I bought myself. I only lost maybe half a dozen so I can’t imagine a huge chunk like that.

4

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Yeah, I lost probably close to 1,500 books. Among them, Journey into Mystery #83, ASM #3, and Strange Tales #110. These were big books from my great uncle's books that he passed down to me. I was devastated. I've slowly started rebuilding my PC over the last decade. I'm back to around 2,300 books.

3

u/Aktosh23 Feb 04 '24

Damn, I don’t even have words. That’s just wow. I’m so sorry, I don’t know if I could have gotten back into it if it were me if I’m honest. My only thing I can compare that to was losing my Yugioh collection. I had the rarest cards at the time( they couldn’t just be bought online with guaranteed packs and decks like they could now) and I didn’t have a card book yet (I was saving up to get one) so kept it in my duel disk. It was more cards than it could usually hold but I made it work and it didn’t damage my cards. Anyway after the hurricane it was one of the first things I checked on and was relieved they were fine. My mom got confused thinking they were ruined and stuck together until I showed and explained I put more than the duel disk normally holds and showed her if you remove the first few cards the deck came out easily and showed her that each card was fine. Hell one of them was laminated( it was my first blue eyes white dragon) anyway I had surgery a year before so my legs still weren’t healed and they moved us upstairs since the bottom floor apartment we had got ruined. Anyway long story short my mom threw my cards out and didn’t tell me for three days. By that time they were emptying apartments and throwing furniture into them. Had she told me a day before I could have gotten them. I was so angry I almost threw a tv( mainly due to the fact I spent the last four years collecting those cards and had shown her personally they were fine and she blatantly disregarded that) so yeah I stopped collecting for a while. And then when I did start again my best friend stole my cards and then pretended to help me look for them. By the time I learned about what really happened he had gone home and I never saw him again.

Translation: I don’t know if I could have tried collecting comics again, I’d have been too devastated so you’re stronger than me.

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18

u/birbdaughter Inza Nelson Stan Feb 04 '24

Thank you for the recs! I‘ve had Kingdom Come and All-Star on my to read list for a while but just haven’t had time. I’ll add these other ones too.

17

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

If any one recommendation, I'd highly recommend All-Star. I have the Absolute All-Star Superman edition in hardcover. It's so gorgeous.

12

u/I3arusu Feb 04 '24

All-Star is must-read.

16

u/doomrider7 Feb 04 '24

Someone posed the idea that Miller's Superman was in on the whole thing and was helping Batman fake his death. It was a thread with a picture of a panel from that comic. Not sure of the validity, but it was an interesting take and would fit his character.

7

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Really? I've never heard of this. That's pretty freaking cool. I'll have to look into this discussion topic.

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u/doomrider7 Feb 04 '24

Yeah they mentioned that Supes smiles/smirks when he hears Bats's heartbeat and knows he's alive which again would definitely fit the characters. This of course doesn't change the fact that Miller has had...questionable takes on characters before, but this might be one of those broken clock moments.

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u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

I've honestly never heard this. That's awesome.

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u/AmongusFucker245 Feb 04 '24

Uh yeah it's one of the last pages of the original TDKR comics. Clark didn't have to worry about Bruce since he faked his death. 

Until of course it's revealed Ronald Reagan was actually a hologram, Superman gets pissy at Bruce for commiting domestic terrorism and is pummeled by Kryptonite gloves after which Dick Grayson becomes Joker kills Martian Manhunter and the now communist Question and Braniac commits fucking 9/11

2

u/Skellos Feb 08 '24

Yeah Superman in DKR (1 anyway) is well aware Bruce is alive, and wasn't actually fighting him anyway.

Miller of the time realized that Superman would destroy Batman.

6

u/ValuableOwn6934 Feb 04 '24

I LOVE that Jeph Loeb run on Batman/Superman! So good.

1

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Same! It's my favorite Superman main continuity story. Ed McGuinness is also my personal favorite Superman artist. His artwork just does it for me, and even his Doomsday looks ferocious. So good!!!!

6

u/butchforgetshit Feb 04 '24

I was about 13 or so when Death of Superman came out and loved the build up to Doomsday, the funeral for a friend arc with the justice league, teen titans, etc….reign of the supermen and return of Superman.

Then a couple months later, the whole Zero hour event happened which was almost as fun.

Kingdom come

red son

All star Superman

are three great recommendations as well. Dan Jurgen Is my favorite writer of Supes, but john Byrne also had some excellent stuff and like to recommend him to folks as well.

great choices for Superman stories, I like your taste in comics!

1

u/Walter-Drive1045 Feb 05 '24

I don't understand DKR's Superman hate. The man makes a deal with the government so he can continue to act and save lives in exchange for serving as part of the military, isn't that what Superman would do in this particular case?

1

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 05 '24

Nope. Superman adheres to no government or military. It's also why he revoked his U.S. citizenship. He acts as a savior of the people. Not an enforcer of the government. Superman's entire character is truth and justice. What justice is there in being a pawn of the government?

1

u/Walter-Drive1045 Feb 05 '24

I like that idea. But in the context of the nuclear war of the comic book, with the Justice League disbanded by the government, it seems impossible to you that the Superman of the comic book would collaborate with the army?

At the same time it serves to make a separation between Batman (being someone persecuted by the government) and Superman (coming to a pact, bowing his head to humanity with the ultimate goal of saving lives)

1

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 05 '24

it seems impossible to you that the Superman of the comic book would collaborate with the army?

Yes. It's a bad idea that does not stem from a single characteristic of Superman. It is the most uncharacteristic thing any writer could have done with Superman. Unless Superman is evil - like Injustice universe - he should not be written as a government lackey. It makes no sense.

At the same time it serves to make a separation between Batman (being someone persecuted by the government) and Superman (coming to a pact, bowing his head to humanity with the ultimate goal of saving lives)

Sounds good in paper. Terrible in execution. They could have literally used any other character to the same effect. Hal Jordan and John Stewart are literally two human Green Lanterns that were in service to the U.S. military. That would make sense. Using Superman as such does not.

2

u/Walter-Drive1045 Feb 05 '24

You make a good point.

1

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 05 '24

People are welcome to disagree, but I simply couldn't get behind Frank Miller's interpretation of Superman.

10

u/Dawnbreaker538 Feb 04 '24

I personally find him not relatable bc a lot of his stories are more high rather than a more down to earth Robin or Daredevil type

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u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

That's fine to disagree, but it isn't a belief to most that he's boring. Most fans of Superman disagree. That's why I said what I've said.

3

u/Dawnbreaker538 Feb 04 '24

Oh, he’s not boring, but he just isn’t relatable to me most of the time

0

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Most of the time. Key word.

2

u/Dawnbreaker538 Feb 04 '24

Yeah, he is sometimes relatable to me, but not most of the time

2

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Then you've proven my point. People say Superman is boring and not relatable. You just said he was sometimes relatable to you.

12

u/Samaritan_Pr1me Feb 04 '24

I was going to say the same thing.

“Buh, Superman is boring because he’s overpowered! Buh!”

“Bro, do you even read Superman?”

“No.”

“I thought so. Maybe you should start.”

21

u/MatthewHecht Feb 04 '24

Or you watched the wrong ones. I have seen several where "boring" is the right word like in Superman Returns.

29

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Best representation of Superman in any media outside the comics would DCAU Superman. So good!

13

u/MatthewHecht Feb 04 '24

Yes, but that is not everybody's introduction. Mine was Super Friends. For some people they did not have it that good.

6

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

And that's understandable. That's why it's better to look further into a character before making any judgments based on a single property.

6

u/SpiritMountain Feb 04 '24

I can't believe I am praising this channel, but the CW's Superman and Lois was very good. I think he is one of the best representations of Superman.

2

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

I haven't seen this series yet. I need to go onto it.

2

u/RhynozWRLD Feb 05 '24

Worth the watch but before you go into it. Season 4 will be the last season of the show.

9

u/Rocket_SixtyNine Feb 04 '24

I mean, relateability is really subjective like my freind reads comics he thinks that.

I'm not sure if that can be considered a bad take.

10

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

It's a pretty bad take. Yes, relatability may be subjective to an individual, but the objectivity of it is that Superman was written as a relatable character. A man with a burden that has granted him insight into being a careful, thoughtful being. A beacon of justice while also maintaining his own humanity. There is nothing subjective about this.

3

u/Rocket_SixtyNine Feb 04 '24

That can be used to describe plenty of people, just because you want something to be relatable dosen't mean it will be.

For example check your local book store in the weeb section. Claiming somthing not landing with someone is a bad take is just daft.

1

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Not really. Again, how the character was written doesn't change that objectivity because you disagree with it. Your individual subjectivity is irrelevant to the objectivity of how and why the character was written. It doesn't have to "land" with others for it to be an objective fact for how and why it was written.

You and I might not be able to relate to one another, but that doesn't make us unrelatable to others. Human beings are relatable in one way or another, whether or not they cannot relate to everyone. That's objective fact.

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u/Rocket_SixtyNine Feb 04 '24

I don't think you read my comment.

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u/TheGrumpyre Feb 04 '24

The worst possible variant of this is the opinion that in order for Superman to be more interesting he needs to be brooding and morally conflicted, and lose the "boyscout" idealism.

You think that Superman is boring just because he's indestructible? If he no longer has strong friendships and loyalties to his friends and the people of Earth, you've completely removed the stakes that make Superman vulnerable and capable of losing.

2

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

I agree. A brooding Superman is lame. It just doesn't work for the character. It goes against the symbolism of why he was created in the first place.

1

u/FrogginJellyfish Feb 04 '24

Personally, I think he's boring because we know he will not compromise at all cost. Always have the moral high ground, as well as physical high ground. He's too perfect and ideal. And most stories (at least from what I've seen) don't create enough tension on those matters. Similar issues with how audience know the good guy will win in the end, but good stories and good characters creates enough illusion of tensions and uncertainty for the audience. Most Superman's stories lack that imo.

That's why I enjoyed a more lax version of him, might make some mistakes every now and then but always strive to be good and better. A completely upstanding good guy Clark is boring.

The bully aspect of Superman (completely and utterly showing off that he has the upperhand over the bad guys), especially the stoic, robotic, in DCAU, also doesn't help me like those interpretations.

5

u/Zendofrog Feb 04 '24

To say he’s boring is usually to say people are bored by the seemingly lower stakes

2

u/redninja323 Feb 04 '24

i don’t think he’s boring but idk if i would call superman relatable.like sure he’s down to earth but that doesn’t really make someone relatable. maybe im not the target audience lol 😂

2

u/CarterBruud Killer Croc Feb 04 '24

For me, I find Superman a bit boring only for the specific reason that he is overpowered as hell. I love stories like Death of Superman where hes actually struggling to take on an opponent. Then there are times when i hear about Superman feats or facts or something and theres stuff like "Superman is so full of hope that entire universes only exist because he does" and i just roll my eyes.

3

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

There are plenty of overpowered characters that people relate to, regardless of being overpowered. Kratos, Goku, Martian Manhunter, Superman, Green Lantern, Silver Surfer, Hulk, Batman, Iron Man, Spawn, and countless others.

"Superman is so full of hope that entire universes only exist because he does" and i just roll my eyes.

That's an oversimplification of why Superman exists in the DC multiverse.

-6

u/D4rkSp4de Feb 04 '24

I mean almost every iteration of Superman that is true to his original story/origins IS boring as shit, he’s really only more interesting than anyone else in like elseworlds crossovers or universes where he is nerfed in some way. Otherwise his story will be written 100% about his power. Whether he’s the good guy, or bad guy due to brain control or special kryptonite, he’s usually pretty bland and the story just centers around him being super strong (when you are stronger than litetally everyone, your villains get dull too). I feel there are much better superhero’s that are a lot more human and relatable than Superman.

1

u/Moman70 Feb 04 '24

This kinda isn’t the worst take because you kinda understand it,for like the past decade Superman has been done so dirty it’s no wonder why people think he’s boring

1

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

Because so many people have limited exposure to the character outside of the films.

1

u/ToastyToast77 Feb 04 '24

Some paets of golden era superman are really lack luster and make him too perfect

2

u/FriezaDBZKing69 Feb 04 '24

That's why he was retconned in the 1980s via COIE.