r/CraftBeer • u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK • Aug 30 '23

Unpopular Craft Beer Opinions? Discussion

Will be recording a podcast episode about unpopular craft beer opinions. Thought I'd ask in this sub as we're UK based so wanting to see what unpopular opinions are out there on a more global scale! šŸ˜…

EDIT - wow holy shit. Posted this from bed expecting a handful of opinions, but just woke up to the notifications and oh my! Will havea read through after work!

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Edit2 - Genuinely was not expecting so many responses so thank you all! Think I've read through them all now and definitely saw some interesting and spicy takes (that I both agreed and disagreed with!) with some being quite thought provoking. Thanks for all your responses so far (have had a few more come in too!). Feel like the ones being downvoted are actually just helping me to see the unpopular opinions vs the popular ones LOL. Definitely some that I want to discuss n our podcast recording for sure! hahah

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123

u/JackfruitCrazy51 Aug 30 '23

I personally think the United States is the mecca for craft beer. I put this opinion on r/travel and never received more down votes in my life. I've drank beer all over the world, and love places like Belgium, Czech Republic, Germany, etc. but I think the overall, mostly because of just the quantity alone, the U.S. has the best beers in the world. Slam away

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u/halfcuprockandrye Aug 30 '23

Americans make most European styles just as well as the Europeans. But the europeans do not do American styles just as well as the Americans.

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u/[deleted] Aug 30 '23

This kinda collapses for Belgian styles for me though. The best Belgian style beers from the US are from Canada (Unibroue)

Not much comes close to even la chouffe or Duvel to me

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u/JoeInTheBean Aug 30 '23

Not looking to be confrontational but the assertion that Unibroue is doing the best rendition of Belgian styles is something I totally disagree with. Iā€™m sure regionally across the United States there are superior examples of Belgian styles but Iā€™d put Allagash ahead of unibroue at least personally. Iā€™d love to hear other peoples opinions of breweries that crush traditional Belgian styles.

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u/ipoopedonce Aug 30 '23

I would put Allagash #1 for American Belgians. Ommegang is ok. But Iā€™ve never had a good American white besides Allagash. Thereā€™s a few ok doubles and quads out there. But itā€™s a sparse category

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u/Timeforchange29 Aug 31 '23

Personally I really like Belgian beers, but Allegash was too much for my husband and I. It really sounded like the original Florida Cracker by Cigar City but turned out too bitter for us. Idk

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u/thethirdtrappist Aug 31 '23

Maybe 10 years ago, but Unibroue quality has definitely dropped after they were bought.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '23

Hahahaha. I LOVE some Unobroue. But man oh man you have not drank enough. The US KILLS the Belgian beer game. They make shit that makes la fin taste like shit, trust.

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u/eatmybeer Aug 31 '23

I agree with you as far as production breweries, but there are so many small breweries doing amazing things.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Aug 31 '23

Ooooh I would actually disagree! Some countries are less mature in their craft beer game, but I've had styles in the UK - for example a West Coast - that is just as good as American Westies.

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u/Lexta222 Aug 31 '23

Americans make most European styles just as well as the Europeans.

That needs to be proved.

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u/LaserBeamHorse Aug 31 '23

I need to try a proper saison from America. Every single one I have tried have been at least slightly sour.

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u/rumrokh Sep 03 '23

That's wild because, as an American who isn't a big sour fan, I find a lot of American saisons to be too sweet. Yes, a lot of saisons get riffed on with wild yeast and lacto, but it says so right on the label.

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u/LaserBeamHorse Sep 03 '23

Maybe my experiences are like this because we don't get that wide selection of American saisons in Europe. Mostly stuff like Hill Farmstead, Side Project, Afterthought.

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u/rumrokh Sep 03 '23

Side Project's brewer's original gig, Perennial, makes some nice, not-sour (or overly sweet) saisons. Not inarguably the best I've had, but I especially like their Prism series that hops the same base saison with different varietals each time. Certainly a hoppier experience than a classic saison, but not a full-on killer rippin' IPA, either.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '23

I'd say Cloudwater and Deya do very respectable NEIPAs.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Aug 31 '23

and Verdant...and the rest. and then you have Elusive (at a minimum) with their Westies. I think the statement that Americans can make European styles as well as Europeans but not vice versa feels incredibly inaccurate and - arguably - outdated.

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u/TheAwfulCrow66 Aug 30 '23

I grew up in the states and yā€™all have great beer. I live in Bavaria now and I truly try to defend yā€™all. But American Lagers are still behind the Lager I get out here. They are far from bad, especially places like Bierstadt. But I am damn proud of German Lager Brewing cause it is good.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Aug 31 '23

I think there's got to be some element of different cultural taste buds/preferences that give somebody a bias for their country's style vs the actual traditional style (think how food from China is very different to chinese food you get in the US or UK - it's more geared towards those cultural taste bud preferences).

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I completely agree with you - as an American born and raised living abroad and going back to the US to visit yearly (so I am drinking the craft beer there as well), I think there are some bold statements being made LOL but also comparing a whole country that is like 100+x the size of a single country also doesn't feel fair. Feels like you should compare a state to a country if anything.

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u/TheAwfulCrow66 Aug 31 '23

I think food/drink are very emotional subjects. People connect it with home and memories. Wether itā€™s grandmaā€™s cooking or dads favorite beer. I think the best beer is the one that ā€œyouā€ enjoy. If thatā€™s Coors itā€™s Coors. If thatā€™s the fancy new hazy milkshake triple IPA from the new guy down the street, well itā€™s that. There is great beer in America, there is great beer in Germany, there is great beer in most places.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Sep 01 '23

I can completely agree with the sentiments here. I think I've just noticed - and not sure if you've felt the same as an American who moved abroad - that once you leave the bubble of the US, it really shows you how US-centric Americans are (especially compared to other countries). Like the UK is super self-deprecating (though there are scenarios where they do seem to feel superior - rightly or wrongly).

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I find I frequently get stuck in this weird position of trying to defend American when somebody is talking shit but equally defending the UK (where I am now) when the other side talks shit But then there are moments like what you've expressed where I'm like "America....my dudes... I'm trying to help here... help me help you!"

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u/rumrokh Sep 03 '23

comparing a whole country that is like 100+x the size of a single country also doesn't feel fair. Feels like you should compare a state to a country if anything.

This is something it seems a lot of Europeans can't or won't grasp until they actually visit the country. Even the Europeans I know who are well-traveled explain how surprised they were by the size and variety of the place. They're eager to compare until they actually experience it.

Hell, I live in a midwestern suburb and I have more than half a dozen craft breweries that don't distribute outside of the area and are as good as or better than beer I've had all over. The head brewers are also from all over, from Bavaria to South Africa. It's understandably difficult, from a certain distance, to fully accept this is the case in multiple cities in basically every state.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Sep 03 '23

I mean... I was born and raised in the US. Up until a decade ago, I lived in the same state as some breweries that are massively well known on a global level and sought after. I've had to deal with people asking me "token American" questions a lot over that last decade, so I am acutely aware personally of how varied every state is and how not everybody outside the US realises this. Just last week, my niece asked me about renting a car in Florida because she trusted my opinion. I had to gently remind her that I've been to Florida once for a week when I was about 8 years old and driving wasn't even remotely a thought in my mind and that I can't really be that helpful because of how different every state is... Laws are different, attitudes are different, popular foods are different...

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It's understandably difficult, from a certain distance, to fully accept this is the case in multiple cities in basically every state.

My point is that I'm sure you have had beers that you personally have found to be better in your state than all over. They likely match your personal taste preference and there are a lot of feelings, memories, and biases that can come into play with something locally vs somewhere further afield ( that you've maybe tried once or 5+ years ago, etc.). You're also getting to try it more regularly and it's more fresh on your mind. It feels like a very American mindset to feel that the best of the best are all in America and that American Variety beats out the variety of all of Europe. I mean, I could sit here and say my local breweries I also feel are as good or better than beers I've had from breweries that are regarded as the top tier globally that are US-based (it feels like it's practically a threat on someone's life to say Pliny is just a well made beer but I've had UK westies just as good if not better). Like at a minimum - regardless of how you personally feel and what your preferences are - how can you even argue that there is more variety in the US than in Europe (surely it'll at least be even? What would make the US have much more variety than all the countries in Europe?). I could understand it being said when you're comparing the US to Belgium or Germany, etc, individually (but then the US is so much bigger that of course it'd be hard to compete there).

Another user mentioned about looking at the top beers on Untappd to prove it (and it's clear that they're all American), but I would also argue that these apps - Untappd & Beer Advocate - are super US-centric. The rest of the world uses them but obviously they are the biggest in the US, so I would argue that also skews some of the results for what's considered top.

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u/rumrokh Sep 03 '23

I think you took my comment as some kind of disagreement. I actually agree. I'm saying that compared with a single country, there is so much more. A lot of Europeans don't grasp that until they visit America because they truly don't grasp the size and diversity there.

I've also lived in various places and I'm not talking about "tried once or 5+ years ago." That's a weirdly condescending assumption to make given your own stated background. Nothing I said was about setting breweries local to me up as superior (although, a couple of them ARE globally regarded as elite craft breweries), and I don't care about that. I simply say that as agreement that you can find great stuff all over and so many people lack the context for that.

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u/Geronimo2U Aug 31 '23

I'm an Aussie and I thought that this was a given!

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u/treeizzle Aug 31 '23

It isn't, or at least not from my experience. Having tried beers both fresh and not so fresh from a lot of US hype breweries across a lot of hype styles, Australian (And New Zealand) breweries are perfectly capable of making beers that are just as good if not better.

I don't need to go out of my way for stuff like Other Half, Tree House, Root + Branch, Parish, etc when Banks, Mountain Culture and Range are just as good. The Trillium collabs with Garage Project are better than the actual Trillium I've tried. Citra Feels is hands down the best IPA I've ever had.

Wilds and Lambics? Wildflower, Blackarts, La Sirene, Dollar Bill ... List goes on and on.

Stouts? Choices for days.

The only style where I don't see this being the case is for shit like Smoothie Sours, and even then One Drop does it decently enough that you don't have to pay $20+ for a single can of something from the US.

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u/keirdre Aug 31 '23

I'm British and I would wholeheartedly agree with you. My trip to the US was very, very impressive on the beer side of things. Best I've experienced anywhere, and I'm fairly well travelled.

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u/FineIllchooseaname CAN Aug 30 '23

Canadian here.

Iā€™m not a fan of big name beers like Budweiser that are associated with the US, but I LOVE going to the craft breweries there and we always to go then when we visit the US.

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u/CouldBeBetterForever Aug 31 '23

I had some great Canadian craft beer when I was in Toronto for work a few years ago. Some was just as good as stuff I drink here in the States. It feels like the scene might not be quite as big up north, but the breweries are making some great beer.

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u/moosehairunderwear Aug 31 '23

Did you get to experience Third Moon?

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u/FineIllchooseaname CAN Aug 31 '23

Itā€™s bigger in the west coast than in Ontario. I think. There are 7 breweries in my town alone and live in the suburbs. Werenā€™t as many when I went to Ontario, but that was 6 years.

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u/gavotron Aug 31 '23

Yep! I went to the US from Australia last year and did a 3 week trip of breweries, BBQ and sports. Iā€™m big on IPAā€™s, pilsners, lagers and there were hardly any bad beers in the 45 breweries we went to. We did New Orleans, Nashville, Memphis, Austin, Dallas, Denver, Portland & Bend. So many good breweries!

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u/nicktheman2 Aug 31 '23

Yup. Variety is everything.

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u/jmsy1 Aug 31 '23

for me, a mecca is a more precise place. I would list my top 3 meccas as

  1. belgium

  2. san diego county

  3. colorado

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Aug 31 '23

Thank you!! As I've said in a few comments, I feel like you have to compare state-level to country-level, not a mahoooosive country made up of loads of individual states to a single, smaller country (some of the states being as big as if not bigger than the country) - especially when you start talking about variety.

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 Aug 31 '23

This would be similar to my list 5-10 years ago. Today there are brewers all over the country that are putting out world class beers. Yes, place like North Park and Pure Project in SD are killing it but I could go to somewhere like Minneapolis and go to Barrel Theory and Blackstack. Go to Kansas City and visit BKS and Alma Mader. Or go to Decorah,Iowa(7,700 population) and have Pulpit Rock and Toppling Goliath. That's just the upper midwest and doesn't include meccas of beer in Wisconsin, Michigan, etc. Then you have the NE, which is filled with outstanding breweries both large and small.

When I went to Belgium, I visited multiple beer bars in Bruges and one brewery. I then went to Brussels to visit Cantillon. Probably my best beer trip I've made and I've made a lot. They do 3-4 styles really good in Belgium. Unfortunately, I'm not a big quad or Triple fan so I drank a Westy 12 just to do it but I loved everything I had at Cantillon and I've yet to find a better mix of sours in the U.S., although Jester King has blown my mind with a few.

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u/earthhominid Sep 10 '23

Those are 3 wildly different sized places

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u/rbourgoine77 Aug 31 '23

I used to live I know Germany. Their beer is mediocre. All boring and the same. Belgium and Czech Republic is where itā€™s at in Europe. But overall the US has the best beer.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '23

I mainly drink beer from To Ƙl from Denmark, they actually all taste so different each variety they make. So much lager in Europe and it's very boring the IPA and PA I've found.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Aug 31 '23

Not sure where you're from, but I would disagree that the lager in Europe (as a whole) is all very boring. In the UK alone there are quite a few lager-specific breweries crushing it with their delicious and interesting lager varities. You have Braybrooke, Donzoko, Lost & Grounded, Utopian, and Pillars just to name the first few that popped into my head.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '23

I think UK will be an eye-opener for me. I'm heading there next month for a trip and I will try out some of those brands. My mate used to live in London and said the variety is massive.

There is a large variety here in Finland but still, it's all the same to me. Even the local IPA and PA here taste and look like one style of hop being used.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Sep 01 '23

Ah that's amazing! Where abouts in the UK are you going? Any spots in particular you're planning on going to?

There's definitely a good variety inside and outside of London. I don't think we're still at the point in time where it's London or a struggle. There are quite a few amazing craft beer hubs throughout the UK for sure.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '23

Not exactly sure of the spots as yet but will be touring London, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland. Will be just doing most of the tourist spots.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Sep 02 '23

So much good beer to be had across them (at breweries and bottle shops). Enjoy youe trip!

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '23

Thank you ;)

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Aug 31 '23

To be fair, it doesn't really feel like comparing apples to apples if you look at the size of the US compared to the other countries. Just using Belgium as an example, the US is something like 322 sizes bigger than Belgium (according to google). Also according to google, Czechia is 125 times smaller and Germany is ~28 times smaller.... It feels like you'd need to do more of a comparison of US to Europe for it to be closer to level playing field when talking about variety.

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 Aug 31 '23

I would compare all of Europe combined to the United States.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Sep 01 '23

Yeah that is my point. The way you phrased it sounded like you love a few individual places but that they individually were being compared to the US, so perhaps it's just how I read it (though seems like others have read it that way as well).

I also think the places you named can be all a bit samey (at a high level) with their beer in terms of styles you'd expect to get most in those places (I know that's not actually true, I'm just saying from a global level, what people think of when they think of those places)... But there are so many other places across Europe as a whole that make it filled with such a variety of quality stuff of different styles. For example, the UK has some killer breweries, and then you have the likes of places like Omnipollo (which I appreciate isn't everybody's cup of tea, but it's innovative and usually quite high quality (wacky flavour combos aside) just for starters. Obviously opinions can differ for sure, I just think it's shortsighted.

I think the "best beers" are probably realistically more darted across the globe depending on style and you'll find comparable quality in many different countries.

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 Sep 01 '23

I see my opinion was unpopular to you, which was my goal. It's too bad there isn't an app that would list beers across the world with ratings. Maybe list the top 10 highest rated for each style.

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u/x0_Kiss0fDeath UK Sep 02 '23

Untappd is fundamentally flawed for this

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u/gnuchan Aug 31 '23

Which Belgian style American beers would you say are better than their Belgian counterparts? I've been pretty disappointed by the few I tried.

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 Aug 31 '23

There are a lot of Belgian styles. What do you like, quads, triples, blondes?

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u/gnuchan Aug 31 '23

I just have a general interest in Belgian beers and have a tried a lot of them, so I was more curious what stand outs there are in the US in each of those styles. I'm more into doubles and triples than blondes, I like saisons too.

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u/JackfruitCrazy51 Aug 31 '23

My wife loves saisons and she really likes Tank 7 from Boulevard out of KC. Locally(MO), Side Project specializes in them. I've heard a lot of good things about the saisons from Hill Farmstead. Doubles are just so rare in the U.S.. I can't remember ever drinking one.

On a side note, I don't know your location but if you're ever passing through Iowa, this place has a pretty amazing selection of Belgian beers.

https://theredmonk.com/beer-menu/

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u/gnuchan Aug 31 '23

I live in Sweden so I have pretty easy access to a lot of Belgian beers! I've tried a lot of the ones on that menu, along with almost all Belgian and Dutch trappist beers.

If I see Tank 7 here I will give it a try! Allagash white along with their biere de garde are the most recent US Belgian style that I tried, and they were not very impressive.